Thinking you'll probably get rejected vs thinking you'll definitely get rejected

[GoodMan32]

The thread title is only allowed to be so long. I will explain more on my post.

In my latest counseling session, my counselor put words in my mouth. She accused me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore the odds of me getting rejected any time I shoot my shot from here on out are 100%"

Interestingly, posters on here have accused me of thinking that too.

Here's the thing though: I've never said (either on here or in counseling) I have a 100% chance of rejection with every woman from here on out.

My logic is more along the lines of "I've been rejected nearly every time, even in instances where I genuinely thought there was interest on the girl/woman's part. Therefore, I have every reason to believe I'm probably (not definitely; probably) going to get rejected by any given woman, no matter how many signs she's given me."

In other words, I acknowledge the possibility the woman might say yeah...but at the same time, I'm good enough at pattern recognition I can deduce what the outcome will probably be.

Is it reasonable for a guy with my track record to think he'll probably get rejected?

 

[GearsGod310]

Bro, go to the gym. Practice good hygiene. Talk to strangers and get used to bull**** convos.
I been rejected millions of times by hot women. I don't dwell on it. I try to get better.

 

[The Duke]

...back to debate. It's like pulling on your peter. It doesn't amount to anything. Real live Action son. Don't post again until you hit a girl up and got a number.

 

[BeExcellent]

Homework assignment. Go do the homework assignment.

Both mindsets you note in your thread title are negative & self defeating. Work on a positive mindset and self belief. Your therapist is echoing what you have heard here. No surprise. Difference is we really don't sugar coat it around here.

Nothing changes for you until you change.

Read that again. Your pattern is of negative attitudes. You gotta get past that.

Action is the way past it. Leave your house & talk to people.

 

[SW15]

Leave your house & talk to people.

He's not motivated to do that because he fails to achieve anything by doing that.

It is generally good advice but he's working with a poor history in his interactions.

go to the gym.

This is the best advice. If one's physique is good enough, it will change outcomes. A man with a good physique can get dates from his physique alone.

OP also lacks height in addition to lacking a panty dropping physique.

 

[plumber]

yes it is reasonable to expect the same results when doing the same thing. you have it exactly correct.

if you want better results you will have to do something different. doing the same thing over and over will usually get the same results over and over. just ask if you want suggestions on what to do different.

if what you are doing now is working for you then don't change it. if it is not working for you then making a change can cause a different result.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The thread title is only allowed to be so long. I will explain more on my post.

Cthulu, Quetzalcoatl, and Tom Cruise have mercy... We're back at this again

"In my latest counseling session, my counselor put words in my mouth"

That's what 3/4 of psychotherapy is, hoss... A shrink provides their assessment of a client's thought process, and the onus is on the client to then chew on that assessment, ask themselves: "Might there be something to my shrink's read on all of this, even if I don't agree entirely with it?"



"She accused me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore the odds of me getting rejected any time I shoot my shot from here on out are 100%"

Interestingly, posters on here have accused me of thinking that too"

Yeah, when half a million folks who aren't strung out on LSD are seeing an elk where you see an horse, chances are strong that your perspective may not be especially accurate



"Here's the thing though: I've never said (either on here or in counseling) I have a 100% chance of rejection with every woman from here on out"

You've never said those EXACT WORDS, in the same way Marc Maron's never said outright: "I'm terrified of being driven out of Hollywood and losing millions, after spending decades building a career, therefore I'm going to extraneous lengths to APPEAR as if I'm a Woke ally". Even listeners and readers of below average ignorance recognize the subtext of what both you and Maron are saying though


"My logic is more along the lines of "I've been rejected nearly every time, even in instances where I genuinely thought there was interest on the girl/woman's part. Therefore, I have every reason to believe I'm probably (not definitely; probably) going to get rejected by any given woman, no matter how many signs she's given me."

Elsewhere, you've written of NOT being rejected though: If memory serves correctly, you've gotten gals who weren't hookers into bed, then not stuck your schlong into their vijayjays, for fear of impregnating them


"In other words, I acknowledge the possibility the woman might say yeah...but at the same time, I'm good enough at pattern recognition I can deduce what the outcome will probably be"

No, you excel at doomsaying, jumping to conclusions, and viewing reality almost exclusively in polarities, such as success and failure. I don't even say this is a criticism, so much as a lamentation: A large percentage of Americans operate in a similar fashion these days


"Is it reasonable for a guy with my track record to think he'll probably get rejected?"

Do you want an honest answer to this question, or are you in the market for someone to confirm your pre-existing beliefs? If the latter, I submit that you've been poisoned irreparably by MGTOW content

 

[BaronOfHair]

He's not motivated to do that because...

Aside from death itself, nothing snuffs out motivation more effectively than manufacturing rationalizations for why one doesn't have it. Don't encourage him

 

[BeExcellent]

He's not motivated to do that because he fails to achieve anything by doing that.

It is generally good advice but he's working with a poor history in his interactions.

Right. But in order to accomplish anything requires effort; practice. Self discipline. I agree about the gym....or working out in general.

I used to run alot. Now I walk alot. I am not crazy about the time it takes and I am not crazy about the getting sweaty and so forth either. So from that standpoint I find it somewhat tedious & I am not terribly motivated to work out. But I love the result, which is keeping an asthetically pleasing fit physique.

I have established a daily habit because I value my fitness. It takes self discipline to establish a habit precisely because there are days where you might not be motivated.

But if you want the result? You do it anyway.

OP needs to discipline himself to ACT on a daily basis. And in time his interactions will improve....just like with working out his physique will improve over time.

But you must take action.

Complaining here, complaining to his therapist really solves nothing. Nobody can do the action for him.

 

[GoodMan32]

Bro, go to the gym. Practice good hygiene. Talk to strangers and get used to bull**** convos.
I been rejected millions of times by hot women. I don't dwell on it. I try to get better.

Most men will get rejected by hotties the vast majority of the time.

I've been rejected even by mediocre gals the vast majority of the time.

...back to debate. It's like pulling on your peter. It doesn't amount to anything. Real live Action son. Don't post again until you hit a girl up and got a number.

My track record suggests that might never happen again (with how infrequently it's happened)

He's not motivated to do that because he fails to achieve anything by doing that.

It is generally good advice but he's working with a poor history in his interactions.



This is the best advice. If one's physique is good enough, it will change outcomes. A man with a good physique can get dates from his physique alone.

OP also lacks height in addition to lacking a panty dropping physique.

You took the words right out of my mouth (as far as a response to @BeExcellent). You're right, it's generally good advice to go out and talk to the opposite sex...but as you pointed out, I don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to doing that.

It sounds like you're insinuating that even the gym is limited in what it can accomplish for me, as I lack a tall height.

It would be unrealistic to expect a D student to miraculously become an A student (and a positive attitude on the D student's part won't make him/her any better at school). I don't get why some on this forum have the idea that a guy who's a D student at romance/seduction can miraculously become an A student through a positive mindset.

As another analogy, imagine you're betting on dog races. A certain dog has lost the vast majority of races he's been in (but has occasionally won). Would you be self-defeating if you refused to bet on that dog? Or would you simply be a realist?

Furthermore, if you refuse to bet on a dog that's lost the vast majority of races, are you saying he'll definitely lose the next race? Or are you simply saying his track record suggests he'll probably lose the next race (even if there's an outside chance he'll win)

 

[SW15]

It sounds like you're insinuating that even the gym is limited in what it can accomplish for me, as I lack a tall height.

For men in general, the best combination is to be 6'0"+ and fit/muscular.

For average range men, it's better to be fit and have a good physique than not have it. Average range height men will see some improvement with women by getting fit/muscular.

Below average height men will see the least improvement with a good physique.

Attraction and seduction is looks, money, status, and personality. You have issues on all 4 variables.

 

[GoodMan32]

Cthulu, Quetzalcoatl, and Tom Cruise have mercy... We're back at this again

"In my latest counseling session, my counselor put words in my mouth"

That's what 3/4 of psychotherapy is, hoss... A shrink provides their assessment of a client's thought process, and the onus is on the client to then chew on that assessment, ask themselves: "Might there be something to my shrink's read on all of this, even if I don't agree entirely with it?"



"She accused me of thinking "I've been rejected before, therefore the odds of me getting rejected any time I shoot my shot from here on out are 100%"

Interestingly, posters on here have accused me of thinking that too"

Yeah, when half a million folks who aren't strung out on LSD are seeing an elk where you see an horse, chances are strong that your perspective may not be especially accurate



"Here's the thing though: I've never said (either on here or in counseling) I have a 100% chance of rejection with every woman from here on out"

You've never said those EXACT WORDS, in the same way Marc Maron's never said outright: "I'm terrified of being driven out of Hollywood and losing millions, after spending decades building a career, therefore I'm going to extraneous lengths to APPEAR as if I'm a Woke ally". Even listeners and readers of below average ignorance recognize the subtext of what both you and Maron are saying though


"My logic is more along the lines of "I've been rejected nearly every time, even in instances where I genuinely thought there was interest on the girl/woman's part. Therefore, I have every reason to believe I'm probably (not definitely; probably) going to get rejected by any given woman, no matter how many signs she's given me."

Elsewhere, you've written of NOT being rejected though: If memory serves correctly, you've gotten gals who weren't hookers into bed, then not stuck your schlong into their vijayjays, for fear of impregnating them


"In other words, I acknowledge the possibility the woman might say yeah...but at the same time, I'm good enough at pattern recognition I can deduce what the outcome will probably be"

No, you excel at doomsaying, jumping to conclusions, and viewing reality almost exclusively in polarities, such as success and failure. I don't even say this is a criticism, so much as a lamentation: A large percentage of Americans operate in a similar fashion these days


"Is it reasonable for a guy with my track record to think he'll probably get rejected?"

Do you want an honest answer to this question, or are you in the market for someone to confirm your pre-existing beliefs? If the latter, I submit that you've been poisoned irreparably by MGTOW content

You're right, there have been instances where I got a free woman into my bed after a 1st date, only to then chicken out of sex because of my pregnancy phobia. Both these stories happened in 2012. The fact I was capable of that at 20/21 (when I was in my prime) doesn't mean I'm capable of that at 34 (Also worth mentioning is the fact these dates came from Craigslist, a website that no longer allows personal ads. Had I met either woman organically, it's highly unlikely I would have been able to seduce my way to the bedroom)

There have only been 2 instances where I ended up in the bedroom with a free woman I met organically. One was a 3/10 who followed me home on public transportation (and then nailed me) when I was 23. The other was an 8/10 former employee of my condo building who nailed me a few months before I turned 30 (it took 2 years of flirting to finally get her into bed)

As for the final question of mine you cited on your post, I'm open to all viewpoints.

Right. But in order to accomplish anything requires effort; practice. Self discipline. I agree about the gym....or working out in general.

I used to run alot. Now I walk alot. I am not crazy about the time it takes and I am not crazy about the getting sweaty and so forth either. So from that standpoint I find it somewhat tedious & I am not terribly motivated to work out. But I love the result, which is keeping an asthetically pleasing fit physique.

I have established a daily habit because I value my fitness. It takes self discipline to establish a habit precisely because there are days where you might not be motivated.

But if you want the result? You do it anyway.

OP needs to discipline himself to ACT on a daily basis. And in time his interactions will improve....just like with working out his physique will improve over time.

But you must take action.

Complaining here, complaining to his therapist really solves nothing. Nobody can do the action for him.

You look excellent (and are in excellent shape) for your age.

That being said, I'd be glad to be with a fat 5/10 woman your age. Yet even that feels like a pipe dream (despite the fact a fat 5/10 woman your age is extremely low on the SMV totem pole)

When I'd struggle to even get a woman whose SMV is toward the bottom of the totem pole, it's easy to feel hopeless.

As for the gym, gymcels exist for a reason.

I'm not saying the gym is a lost cause for every man. All I'm saying is: For men who are incels to begin with, going to the gym is unlikely to solve much, as his muscles won't fix the internal factors that were making him an incel to begin with.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Your mind will find a way to make whatever your actually believe come true subconsciously.

Until you understand and embrace that you have a TON of work to do mentally to shift your mindset, you might as well just go be a hermit or meditate or whatever else you want to do, it won't make a difference.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The fact I was capable of that at 20/21 (when I was in my prime) doesn't mean I'm capable of that at 34...

Reference the following conversation https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ctually-hot-ever-seen-it.284580/#post-3167580

60 some years into the future, when you're 94, you MIGHT have an excuse. In the present day, you have NONE. If you're serious when you say "I'd be happy with a fat 5/10 woman in her 50s or older", go get one. Here in The US at least, we currently have a surplus of such gals who'd take you up on your offer, without a microsecond's hesitation

 

[CornbreadFed]

OP for motivation, here is how I fvcked 5 girls in one night. I was randomly invited to mountain sorority cabin wine retreat event by a fraternity brother. I get there and apparently some girl invited her life guard coworkers to the cabin too and they were all 6ft plus, jacked, Travis Kelcie energy Chads/Jasons and I was like I can't compete against them lol. Instead of giving up, I just start talking to people like a normal human being. I don't remember how, but my shirt ends up coming off and a girl(the one I was eyeing at the whole time because she looked like a young Anne Hatheway) tells me that I am fvcking hot and the train starts rolling from there. Just be confident, normal, and likeable and that will get you farther in life than what you think.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

When I was in my late teens. Just entering college. The PUA scene was happening. I took a class on meeting girls at a community college (not mine). The instructor was adamant that we would fail most of the time. And we would get pushback and resistance. He gave all sorts of tricks on how to deal with these issues. But. The gist was you’ll need to fail a lot to learn.
After class, I saw an attractive girl at a bus stop. I approached her. Fully expecting to get a brush off. Instead she was really friendly and responsive. I wasn’t prepared for anything but rejection. Flustered, I told her; ‘Well, nice talking to you.’ And I walked off. She gave me a confused look.

 

[SW15]

I fvcked 5 girls in one night.

That's a dream for a lot of men.

For men who are incels to begin with, going to the gym is unlikely to solve much, as his muscles won't fix the internal factors that were making him an incel to begin with.

Attraction, seduction, and retention depend on looks, money, status, and personality.

The gym fixes looks, which is the most important factor of the 4. It takes a lot of work in the gym/participation in sports to get a panty dropping physique.

Getting a fit physique with some muscle definition will initially attract women. They will typically be more receptive to in-person approaches (including giving IOIs) and swipe right more rather than approach a man in person.

Women also have less stringent personality and money requirements if a guy has an above average physique.

Improving physique is the best thing to do when not getting laid frequently enough. It might not fix everything but it's the logical first step.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Oopsie

 

[BPH]

Not this sh** again...

 

[characternote]

The gym fixes looks

not quite! You can be ripped and still 'ugly' to lots of girls, i'm afraid (surprisingly, this will be very useful if you want older women!)
But it's definitely generally a good thing to do. A killer body will only tend to help!