Thinking you'll probably get rejected vs thinking you'll definitely get rejected

[characternote]

The fact you're even aware of all this^^ reflects a remarkable adeptness and self-awareness

I was gonna mention that. Out of my fairly large group of friends, I know one person who is autistic and I honestly don't think he'd have the same self awareness (things mentioned before like he knows about his difficulties adjusting to change, limited facial expressions etc) No way my friend would even think about it!

 

[GoodMan32]

Re bolded do you mean a non-neurotypical 20 year old would know better...

In any event...

The fact you're even aware of all this^^ reflects a remarkable adeptness and self-awareness @GoodMan32.

Is that typical? That an autist can be so self-aware, but yet at a loss or too fearful to take the necessary steps to do anything about it?

I mean take BE's husband who is also neurotypical/an autist.

He has learned to socialize and quite well! He met BE at a club! And she's beautiful! Although he still struggles in certain areas. So I assume somewhat high on the spectrum.

I dunno @GoodMan32 you did things like play sports in HS (track and cross-country?).

You obviously socialized with others back then. Not very well (which is not uncommon for many people in HS), but you still did.

So, imo you're certainly capable of doing so again and improving IF you wanted to. Given you're LOW on the spectrum.

Yes? No?

Do you want to? Are you happy this way?

Just asking...

I'll stop posting after this because admittedly I'm not all that familiar with the disorder and it's all quite confusing to me.

So I'll sign off this thread and wish you luck.

No, I mean a neurotypical 20 year old would know better (know better than to ask her for sex after class). Autism is a likely explanation of why my 20 year old self interpreted a female classmate talking about her IUD/casual sex during an extracurricular meeting as a cue that she'd be open to me approaching her after class to ask for casual sex.

I'm not sure how typical it is for an autist to be in my boat (self-aware, yet simultaneously afraid to take the next steps)

As far as @BeExcellent's husband, his autism is relatively mild (just like mine). Him and I both have Asperger's (as opposed to more serious autism). Even Asperger's though still makes us different than 99% of the population.

Even within the Asperger's community, there can be big differences between any 2 individuals. The fact BE's husband was a frat boy shows some major differences between him and I.

I socialized with others on the cross country and track teams, you're right. Saying not very well is an understatement.

Being on the long-distance crew, we'd go on long runs (with no adult supervision) during practice. I was kicked in the leg with a cleat. I was punched on my collarbone and upper arm.

On a run in the woods, some teammate wanted to flat-out begin a non-consensual wrestling match with me (another teammate intervened).

In the locker room, a thrower (which meant he was a bigger guy) wanted to flat-out fight me. A teammate intervened (The intervener, who was a big fan of me, had a younger brother who was clearly an autist to a much more severe degree than me. So he was probably used to protecting autists from bullies).

In general, teammates liked to rough house with me in the locker room.

In general, I was mocked for my autistic characteristics.

When we stopped at a teammate's house during a long-distance practice run, I was pushed into the pool with all my clothes on.

One teammate even hit me in the nose once because he had finally reached the end of his rope with my 15-year-old-who-acts-like-a-9-year-old routine. Luckily he didn't break it (probably because he was one of the few kids smaller than me)...but my nose was bleeding. With how many bloody paper towels I ended up producing when I went into the locker room, one teammate commented "the janitors are going to think someone was murdered in here"

Here's the real kicker: My mom would make me go out to eat with the team...even though I didn't want to (and even though a lot of teammates didn't want me there). Being forced to spend even more time with me only made the teammates who already hated me hate me even more.

Even though not everyone's high school experience is peaches and cream, I don't recall anyone else on the team being hated to the same degree as me.

To answer your closing questions, I suppose I would like to pull out of the rut I'm in.

 

[GoodMan32]

That's a legitimate hurdle. Men who lack wings for nightgame are best focusing on non-bar approaching or social circle game.

Most men who lack wings end up trying to compensate through heavy amounts of swiping. It usually doesn't end well.



I think the majority of neurotypicals don't like bar approaching either. The typical mindset for the neurotypical who approaches in bars is to tolerate it long enough to find a girlfriend. The median neurotypical in a bar isn't a fucckboi. He's a guy looking for a girlfriend so he doesn't have to approach in bars anymore.

Online dating websites were invented in the 1990s to serve as an alternative to the negative aspects of the post Sexual Revolution bar scene (think 1970s-1990s).

There are different type of bars/nightlife venues. Some bars will be better for approaching whereas some bars are better for existing social groups or first dates. Figuring that out beforehand can be a challenge. Some internet review sites will help to an extent with this but it is a matter of firsthand experience.

Read this specific review for an example of aspects that make a bar bad for meeting new people. Bars that are good for meeting new people aren't known for their food service (it's ideal if food service is limited), have mostly people standing, and do not have overly loud music.

Observations on Dallas' Scene

I didn't update this thread during October 2022 so I missed highlighting a key annual event every October in Dallas. The Saturday on every Columbus Day weekend in Dallas is a big deal. It's the second Saturday during the State Fair of Texas. It's also when the annual football game between the...

www.sosuave.net

There are guys who can arrange first dates without going to bars to meet new people or without swiping. They are either doing it through their social circles or approaching people in non-bar venues like grocery stores, bookstores, and gyms.

Non-bar approaching (in other words, daygame) is good in the sense that I'm unlikely to cross paths with her again and I don't have to deal with the lack of a wingman hurdle that I'd run into at a bar (nor do I have to put myself in an environment I find miserable anyway)

The hesitation I recently mentioned on the forum (the fear a woman I daygame will be creeped out enough to throw a hissy fit, spurring every man in the vicinity to swarm me in an attempt to protect her) is not an unfounded fear. Since my past track record includes stuff like asking a girl to be my casual sex partner after class in college and that stretch I went through at age 23 where I'd invite randos in public to come over my place, I have valid reason to believe I'd unknowingly do something extremely creepy at 34 (even if I know better now than to do those exact examples I just mentioned)

Will check out the review you linked

 

[SW15]

I know the topic of gymcels has come up on the forum before. I'd like to hear your take on why gymcels exist.

If getting a shredded physique is enough to offset a subpar personality, gymcels wouldn't exist, right?

I'm not sure why a gymcel would exist. I have never seen an example of a gymcel in real life. It is possible I have seen gymcels at gyms I've attended over the years, but I never knew they were gymcels since I didn't ever speak to them at the gym. I can try to answer the question knowing what I know about seduction.

Attraction and seduction is related to looks, money, status, and personality.

Most gymcels are doing well with looks. There are 2 factors on the looks side that could harm a man with a good physique. @Mike32ct has cited these crucial factors many times and they are height and hair. If a man has below average height, having good muscle definition and lower body fat (think 12-15% body fat) might not be enough to offset his height deficiency. Additionally, a guy with good muscles and lower body fat who is balding would also struggle. If a man's teeth are messed up, or he has bad body odor, or something else is off, it can offset his physique.

A lack of money might offset his looks to some degree, but poverty is usually not enough. If a man is not homeless and he has a solid physique, hairline, average height, and good teeth, then money is not likely to impact the seduction equation.

Status could be a bit of a wildcard. There could be an unappealing status factor. It's more difficult to give examples on this. A lack of a driver's license in a car-centric city could be a status factor affecting things. A conviction for an uncool crime like embezzlement might turn off a woman. Status is rarely something that would cause a gymcel condition.

Something on the personality side would be the most likely factor to cause a gymcel outside of non-muscles/body fat looks factors.

 

[Mike32ct]

No, I mean a neurotypical 20 year old would know better (know better than to ask her for sex after class). Autism is a likely explanation of why my 20 year old self interpreted a female classmate talking about her IUD/casual sex during an extracurricular meeting as a cue that she'd be open to me approaching her after class to ask for casual sex.

Was she talking to other girls about sex/birth control and you were in the group also?

When a chick you aren’t dating talks about intimate details with you directly or indirectly (ie don’t mind if you overhear), it’s typically a sign of friendzone. It usually just means she’s comfortable with you. It usually has zero to do with attraction.

But I get your point about autism leading to misreading certain situations.

 

[SW15]

One particularly noteworthy example of a misread cue was when a girl from my college mentioned (during a meeting for an extracurricular group I belonged to) she had an IUD so she could have casual sex without getting pregnant. I thought the fact she made that comment in my presence was a cue that she was open to casual sex with me. So I approached her after class one day and proposed we be casual sex partners. That's the level of social ineptitude we're talking about.

Was she talking to other girls about sex/birth control and you were in the group also?

When a chick you aren’t dating talks about intimate details with you directly or indirectly (ie don’t mind if you overhear), it’s typically a sign of friendzone. It usually just means she’s comfortable with you. It usually has zero to do with attraction.

Context is everything else.

If you had been in a bar on a regular night, approached a woman at the bar, and she told you about 10-15 minutes into the conversation about her IUD or any other birth control she was using, then it would mean that she is ready for sex with you. That would be a stronger indicator of interest that she wants sex with you immediately. She's telling you that so that she can be appealing to you for immediate sex. Based on Iron Rule of Tomassi #5, it's still a good idea to use condom in this scenario, especially for STD protection. However, the additional layer of pregnancy prevention is good too.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #5
NEVER allow a woman to be in control of the birth.

Iron Rules – Page 2

Posts about Iron Rules written by Rollo Tomassi

therationalmale.com

If a woman is talking about her IUD/choice of birth control at during the daytime in a generic room in a generic building on a college campus with others in a larger group, it is not a reliable indicator.

 

[Mike32ct]

@SW15, you might find this interesting, the most red pill book I ever read was written by a woman in the 90s:

“What the Hell Do Women Really Want?” By Dr. Jama Clark.

I don’t remember the page number, but I paraphrase, “Women are not attracted to short, overweight, balding, men with low paychecks.”

A woman therapist was arguing the importance of height, build, hair, and money. I didn’t fully believe it during my “game” days in the early 2000s, but I observed it later in life (especially after losing hair lol). The book was spot on then and still is.

Context is everything else.

If you had been in a bar on a regular night, approached a woman at the bar, and she told you about 10-15 minutes into the conversation about her IUD or any other birth control she was using, then it would mean that she is ready for sex with you. That would be a stronger indicator of interest that she wants sex with you immediately. She's telling you that so that she can be appealing to you for immediate sex.

If a woman is talking about her IUD/choice of birth control at during the daytime in a generic room in a generic building on a college campus with others in a larger group, it is not a reliable indicator.

Yeah agree that context matters. Yes, if you just met in a bar, have her isolated and she mentions her birth control, she probably is ready for sex.

I was thinking more in terms of a beta in an established social circle. Girls will sometimes talk about personal stuff around him because he’s harmless and trustworthy.

 

[SW15]

the most red pill book I ever read was written by a woman in the 90s:

“What the Hell Do Women Really Want?” By Dr. Jama Clark.

I don’t remember the page number, but I paraphrase, “Women are not attracted to short, overweight, balding, men with low paychecks.”

A woman therapist was arguing the importance of height, build, hair, and money. I didn’t fully believe it during my “game” days in the early 2000s, but I observed it later in life (especially after losing hair lol). The book was spot on then and still is.

That's correct. Women are not attracted to short, overweight, balding men who are lower income.

I have always given you credit on this forum for "height, hair, money" and will continue to do so. I agree with the importance of those factors + build/physique.

I was thinking more in terms of a beta in an established social circle. Girls will sometimes talk about personal stuff around him because he’s harmless and trustworthy.

That can happen. I don't do much in the way of social circle activities.

 

[GoodMan32]

I'm not sure why a gymcel would exist. I have never seen an example of a gymcel in real life. It is possible I have seen gymcels at gyms I've attended over the years, but I never knew they were gymcels since I didn't ever speak to them at the gym. I can try to answer the question knowing what I know about seduction.

Attraction and seduction is related to looks, money, status, and personality.

Most gymcels are doing well with looks. There are 2 factors on the looks side that could harm a man with a good physique. @Mike32ct has cited these crucial factors many times and they are height and hair. If a man has below average height, having good muscle definition and lower body fat (think 12-15% body fat) might not be enough to offset his height deficiency. Additionally, a guy with good muscles and lower body fat who is balding would also struggle. If a man's teeth are messed up, or he has bad body odor, or something else is off, it can offset his physique.

A lack of money might offset his looks to some degree, but poverty is usually not enough. If a man is not homeless and he has a solid physique, hairline, average height, and good teeth, then money is not likely to impact the seduction equation.

Status could be a bit of a wildcard. There could be an unappealing status factor. It's more difficult to give examples on this. A lack of a driver's license in a car-centric city could be a status factor affecting things. A conviction for an uncool crime like embezzlement might turn off a woman. Status is rarely something that would cause a gymcel condition.

Something on the personality side would be the most likely factor to cause a gymcel outside of non-muscles/body fat looks factors.

I've been/lurked on online communities where there are a decent amount of gymcels.

To the best of my knowledge, I've only ever known one gymcel in real life. He's a coworker (the 35 year old male coworker I mentioned on a recent post who complimented my fashion)

While I don't know the ins and outs of his dating/sex life, he certainly doesn't appear to be a success with the ladies (incidentally, he got turned down by one of the cafe girls I've mentioned on the forum)

He's Native American (Which could hold a guy back in some locations. I don't think being Native American would hold a guy in Arizona back though)

The biggest factor I can think of to potentially explain why he's a gymcel is his demeanor. He's shy/reserved.

I couldn't speak for why any of the gymcels I've come across online are gymcels.

Was she talking to other girls about sex/birth control and you were in the group also?

When a chick you aren’t dating talks about intimate details with you directly or indirectly (ie don’t mind if you overhear), it’s typically a sign of friendzone. It usually just means she’s comfortable with you. It usually has zero to do with attraction.

But I get your point about autism leading to misreading certain situations.

We were at a meeting of a co-ed extracurricular group. This was way back in 2012 (so I don't remember exactly which other group members were present). From what I recall, the group had a pretty even male/female mix.

@SW15, you might find this interesting, the most red pill book I ever read was written by a woman in the 90s:

“What the Hell Do Women Really Want?” By Dr. Jama Clark.

I don’t remember the page number, but I paraphrase, “Women are not attracted to short, overweight, balding, men with low paychecks.”

A woman therapist was arguing the importance of height, build, hair, and money. I didn’t fully believe it during my “game” days in the early 2000s, but I observed it later in life (especially after losing hair lol). The book was spot on then and still is.



Yeah agree that context matters. Yes, if you just met in a bar, have her isolated and she mentions her birth control, she probably is ready for sex.

I was thinking more in terms of a beta in an established social circle. Girls will sometimes talk about personal stuff around him because he’s harmless and trustworthy.

On the topic of girls talking about sex-related topics with a trusted beta male friend, I remember a time my freshman year of college when 2 female friends of mine (from what I recall, it was just the 3 of us) were talking about their bra size with me.

They both had boyfriends (so I didn't shoot my shot)

 

[BPH]

I can't believe this thread is still going strong 8 pages later...

The amount of 5+ page threads this guy's made is staggering, yet for some reason, you guys continue giving him attention. How have we still learned nothing?

 

[Sega Genesis]

@GoodMan32 since my last post, I've been spending some time learning about Autism/Asbergers, and came across the attached video you might find helpful!

The narrator has Autism and he shared an experience with a woman where he misread her cues....and chick ended up giving him a fake phone number after he asked for it.

Anyway...

Apparently, he's done a lot of self-work and provides productive ways to interact and become more successfully social; I thought it was interesting!

I encourage you to watch with an open mind, again perhaps it might help!

His name is Fritz Johnson and he has made several videos pertaining to his autism and how he has learned to successfully manage it and get out of the house and socialize!

Enjoy.

 

[GoodMan32]

@GoodMan32 since my last post, I've been spending some time learning about Autism/Asbergers, and came across the attached video you might find helpful!

The narrator has Autism and he shared an experience with a woman where he misread her cues....and chick ended up giving him a fake phone number after he asked for it.

Anyway...

Apparently, he's done a lot of self-work and provides productive ways to interact and become more successfully social; I thought it was interesting?

I encourage you to watch with an open mind, again perhaps it might help!

I saved the video to my watch later list. Am totally intrigued to watch it.

I saw there's a recommended video by him where he mentions going on a date with a woman 28 years his senior. Perhaps it's common for autistic men to like big age gaps (it's no secret on this forum that I like big age gaps too)

Interestingly, as for the topic of the fake number video, I was given a fake number by a popular attractive girl when I was in 8th grade.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What sets me apart is...

You've prioritized "being right" over finding a way to snag your needs and desires, DESPITE life's many imperfections. You're similar to the 98% of folks who go to Hollywood each year, seeking a career in film, only to then

-Realize that most actors ARE NOT A-Listers, never will be, and that life for the typical thespian is one hell of a grind

-Get caught up in griping over nepo babies getting opportunities that you think you're entitled to, rather than spending Mon-Fri going to shi-loads of auditions, becoming well-versed in the craft of acting, getting work on sets as a PA, pulling lighting, etc etc. Ya know, what THE MAJORITY of actors who've "made it" in the biz have done, from the earliest days of Hollywood

-Return to Montplier after less than 6 months, hit the bottle, then spend the remainder of your life lamenting over the star you could've been, had only Fortuna been nicer to you

 

[plumber]

You've prioritized "being right" over finding a way to snag your needs and desires, DESPITE life's many imperfections. You're similar to the 98% of folks who go to Hollywood each year, seeking a career in film, only to then

-Realize that most actors ARE NOT A-Listers, never will be, and that life for the typical thespian is one hell of a grind

-Get caught up in griping over nepo babies getting opportunities that you think you're entitled to, rather than spending Mon-Fri going to shi-loads of auditions, becoming well-versed in the craft of acting, getting work on sets as a PA, pulling lighting, etc etc. Ya know, what THE MAJORITY of actors who've "made it" in the biz have done, from the earliest days of Hollywood

-Return to Montplier after less than 6 months, hit the bottle, then spend the remainder of your life lamenting over the star you could've been, had only Fortuna been nicer to you

not just Hollywood, this model fits everyplace.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Every time you emphasize his autism and statistics among neurotypicals, you're encouraging that, albeit NOT your intention.

Just my read on it.

You're hardly the first to notice https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...-definitely-get-rejected.284586/#post-3167756

I'm beginning to wonder if GM, SW, and Corrector aren't all variations of the same person

 

[BillyPilgrim]

OP for motivation, here is how I fvcked 5 girls in one night. I was randomly invited to mountain sorority cabin wine retreat event by a fraternity brother. I get there and apparently some girl invited her life guard coworkers to the cabin too and they were all 6ft plus, jacked, Travis Kelcie energy Chads/Jasons and I was like I can't compete against them lol. Instead of giving up, I just start talking to people like a normal human being. I don't remember how, but my shirt ends up coming off and a girl(the one I was eyeing at the whole time because she looked like a young Anne Hatheway) tells me that I am fvcking hot and the train starts rolling from there. Just be confident, normal, and likeable and that will get you farther in life than what you think.

Lmao you did not phuck 5 girls while drunk and amog'd

 

[BillyPilgrim]

You're hardly the first to notice https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...-definitely-get-rejected.284586/#post-3167756

I'm beginning to wonder if GM, SW, and Corrector aren't all variations of the same person

Gradients, not variations

 

[GoodMan32]

I can't believe this thread is still going strong 8 pages later...

The amount of 5+ page threads this guy's made is staggering, yet for some reason, you guys continue giving him attention. How have we still learned nothing?

With how much I have working against me, I'm not going to become you overnight.

Even if I were to begin going to the gym (something you really want me to do), with all my bigger problems, I'd simply end up becoming like my gymcel coworker.

I've made lots of strides in the past year. You're just frustrated because I'm not exactly where you want me to be (nor have I gone about my strides in the exact manner you'd like me to)

In the past year:

• I've began attending organized singles events, one of which even led to a mini-date after. Plus, even if the events haven't resulted in a whole lot on the surface, the general practice I've gotten at these events has helped my confidence with the opposite sex (As one example of the increased confidence, I flirt with several female employees from different workplaces in my office building. I even complimented the backside of one the other day)
• On a trip last month, I dined at the bar at a few different establishments (even if I've yet to carry out that experiment locally like @BeExcellent wants me to)
• I've gotten good at asking strategic questions to get a woman to reveal I don't have a chance with her (My counselor said it's impressive if any man, let alone an autistic man, is able to master that skill)

All in all, I'm in a much better place than I was a year ago.

As an analogy, if a student who typically fails math classes manages to get a C in Geometry, that's a major stride, even if they're not at the point where they can get a B+ in Calculus (and likely never will be). Needless to say, for the purposes of this analogy, I'm the student who typically fails math classes (but managed to pull myself up to a C in Geometry), while you're the student who gets a B+ in Calculus.

@GoodMan32 since my last post, I've been spending some time learning about Autism/Asbergers, and came across the attached video you might find helpful!

The narrator has Autism and he shared an experience with a woman where he misread her cues....and chick ended up giving him a fake phone number after he asked for it.

Anyway...

Apparently, he's done a lot of self-work and provides productive ways to interact and become more successfully social; I thought it was interesting!

I encourage you to watch with an open mind, again perhaps it might help!

His name is Fritz Johnson and he has made several videos pertaining to his autism and how he has learned to successfully manage it and get out of the house and socialize!

Enjoy.

I got around to watching the video.

The fake number I got at 13 wasn't a matter of me asking for her number. She voluntarily offered her number (which turned out to be fake). Classic middle school prank where a popular girl tricks a naive dude toward the bottom of the social totem pole into thinking she's into him (She's lost her looks in adulthood. So has a girl who humiliated me in a different way at 15. Karma)

Anyway, the video was still worth watching.

One interesting thing he mentioned was the autistic lack of empathy. Female autists are prone to lacking empathy too (Case in point: On online autistic communities, the vast majority of female autists have a complete and utter lack of empathy for the unique struggles autistic men in particular face romantically/sexually. Female autists have a hard time empathizing because autism will never hold a woman back to the same degree it holds a man back)

He also made an interesting point when he said he basically intimidated her into forking over a number. In the comment section, a male commenter said something along the lines of "That's why I always offer my number, rather than asking for a woman's number. That way I don't risk putting an uninterested woman in the uncomfortable position of feeling coerced to give a fake number just because she's afraid to come out and explicitly turn me down"

I use the same strategy (offering my number). Incidentally, my female next door neighbor has criticized my strategy ad nauseum. My next door neighbor has told me "Never give your number to a woman. Always ask for her number."

It's astonishing how a woman of all people would be so adamant about encouraging me to do something that apparently makes many a woman feel intimidated/uncomfortable.

Next, circling back to a previous post you made on the thread (where you asked about which symptoms of autism I exhibit besides the social struggles I faced when I got my diagnosis as a pre-teen), there's a major symptom I forget to mention: I hate uncertainty with a burning passion.

All the uncertainty that comes with dating/free sex is a major reason I have such a hard time with dating/free sex.

 

[GoodMan32]

Another thing holding me back is the phenomenon @H8CourtshipWithAPassion (another autist) has posted about before. He said autistic men run the risk of getting legal charges if our autism causes us to accidentally do something "wrong" when pursuing a woman. When he's said that before on the forum, I seconded what he said.

Some neurotypical posters thought it sounded silly (the idea that we'd accidentally do something so wrong to the point where the woman could press charges). And I see why a neurotypical man would think it sounds silly. A neurotypical man has enough social grace to refrain from accidentally doing something severe enough to get legal charges when pursuing a woman.

The social ineptitude of autistic men, on the other hand, really could cause us to unknowingly cross a legal boundary when pursuing a woman.

 

[jhonny9546]

Also, if you're accteactive man, you'll notice there'll be two kinds of attacted women to you: the first one are obvious, the second one are so shy they will try to not look at you, or do things to avoid you on purpose but they re so attracted to you.

What you do in either scenario?

You ask her out.
Now if she's still shy she may reject you, but at this point its up to you to next, or try one more time.

Trust me, and other guys here, there might be many women interested in you but they'll never tell.
But only do one, and only one thing to make them understand you want them, and they will start to chase or just ler you know they agree.

As many other said, go to the gym, good clothes and hygiene