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Theory of gravity (a respectable discussion)

zekko

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Have you ever seen the demonstration I mentioned? The rubber sheet and bowling ball? It’s pretty interesting. I think Einstein subscribed to the warped space theory, unless I’m mistaken.
I've definitely seen it. But related to that demonstration is the idea that what actually makes objects fall is time. Because mass distorts time, and the further away from the mass, the faster time travels. So the object falls into the space where time travels slower. I can't quite wrap my head around it, but that's what the physicists say.
 

Serenity

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it's density that makes things fall, not the theory of gravity.
The theory doesn't make things fall, that is true, but the fundamental interaction gravity does. It's the observation of this fundamental interaction that gives rise to the theories explaining how this interaction behaves.

Here's a nice demonstration of objects of different densities falling in air and then in vacuum.
The feather falls slower in air both due to being so light and having a shape that creates a lot of air resistance. The feather will also be more bouyant in air than the bowling ball due to lower density, although bouyancy is a rather negligible force here. Without the air to exert any force on the objects they fall at the same rate, regardless of density where a density of 0 is vacuum itself.

A balloon filled with helium is less dense than the air at Earth's surface, so it rises. In a vacuum chamber such as the one in the video a balloon (that would keep its size in vacuum) would hit the ground at the same time a bowling ball or an anvil or whatever you can think of. Density says fvck all about how things fall unless they're falling through a fluid which itself has a density.

An egg floats in salt water for the same reason helium balloons float up in air, it's less dense than the fluid they're in. The egg sinks in fresh water because fresh water is less dense than water with salt dissolved into it. How you think this proves anything regarding gravity I don't know, but it's a great demonstration of density and bouyancy.

Remove "gravity" from the buoyancy equation & it will STILL WORK PERFECTLY FINE!
Well, yeah, if you're changing velocity (accelerating or decelerating). If nothing is moving due to no force such as gravity acting upon it then it's just stuff floating and density is irrelevant (unless the object is massive enough to have its own significant gravitational pull).

Regarding velocity change and bouyancy, think of stuff in a car. If you slam the breaks then every loose object will come flying towards the front, or will it? If you have a helium balloon in the car it will go flying towards the back, but you can really think of it as the air being denser than the helium so the air goes flying towards the front, leaving no space for the balloon in the front, thus displacing it to the back.

Same sh!t would happen inside a vessel in vacuum, except everything, including the helium balloon, would go flying to the front of the vessel at the same speed regardless of density.

Bouyancy is only relevant for objects in a fluid which has a density under the influence of a force such as gravity or acceleration. Vacuum has no density and thus no bouyancy, so objects are only affected by bouyancy if there's gravity or something otherwise accelerating them in a fluid such as air or water.

I'll happily educate you further in the world of physics if you want to.
 
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Serenity

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I've definitely seen it. But related to that demonstration is the idea that what actually makes objects fall is time. Because mass distorts time, and the further away from the mass, the faster time travels. So the object falls into the space where time travels slower. I can't quite wrap my head around it, but that's what the physicists say.
It's hard to understand the time in relativity, but considering frame of reference makes it a bit easier to wrap the head around it. To you everything will always seem to progress at the same rate of time, unless you're subjected to extreme gravitation or speed. The same will occurr with velocity as with gravitation. Time will progress slower from your frame of reference if you're moving really fast or subjected to gravitation compared to frames of reference that aren't.

This is a way to travel forwards in time. People who have been to the ISS for a while are technically younger when they come back down to Earth than they would be if they didn't go. But technically they should be older because of less gravity, right? Nope, the sheer velocity of the ISS orbiting around the Earth overcomes it and then some, time is slower on the ISS compared to the ground. It's only 0.014 seconds difference every year though.

Not so sure time itself is a cause here though or just something separate simply affected by the gravitational interaction.
 

Murk

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How about you go back to school, prove gravity wrong, then present research to defend your position?
How about you prove it exists

He's not on point with evolution, the transitional fossils that prove macro evolution have been available for decades.

Stop feeding the troll.
LOL those fossils are garbage. Carbon dating and been proven false many times. If carbon dating is not accurate then how are they presuming anything to be billions of years old? These fossils are pure fabrication. If anyone is a troll it’s you.

@Serenity I’ll read and come back to you later but a quick glance I’m not seeing you prove gravity exists (the purpose of the thread) rest assured I would never need educating by you, in anything, ever. Cheers.
 

Murk

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Next thread to be opened by Murk - Breathing. Is it really necessary?
I have no idea why people don’t come with scientific facts countering anything I’ve said and choose instead, childish ridicule. Oh wait, I know exactly why.
 

RickTheToad

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I have no idea why people don’t come with scientific facts countering anything I’ve said and choose instead, childish ridicule. Oh wait, I know exactly why.
I guarantee you that we need to breathe. 100% scientific fact!
 

Murk

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Go to a cliff and jump.
That’s the whole point of this thread. Just because you would fall if I threw you off a cliff doesn’t prove gravity. Look kid, if the threads I make go over your head just say that, or better yet say nothing as per @logicallefty instruction.

I guarantee you that we need to breathe. 100% scientific fact!
Well it’s observable so I approve of breathing being necessary for us to live.
 

EyeBRollin

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That’s the whole point of this thread. Just because you would fall if I threw you off a cliff doesn’t prove gravity. Look kid, if the threads I make go over your head just say that, or better yet say nothing as per @logicallefty instruction.

Well it’s observable so I approve of breathing being necessary for us to live.
So for this thread you should be floating towards outer space right now.
 

Billtx49

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Well it’s observable so I approve of breathing being necessary for us to live.
So for this thread you should be floating towards outer space right now.
Yes, both ordinary and scientific observation currently makes it empirical evidence that a force exists. We call it gravity and all objects fall to earth unless an opposite or opposing force is exerted on the object.

Btw- @EyeBRollin, I believe it’s only his head that’s floating toward outer space…
 

BackInTheGame78

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What makes two objects of identical volume but different densities have different weight? Could it be... Could it be that mass is attracted to other mass? Could it be that something of greater mass has more pull than something of lesser mass? Could it be that the Earth being really really massive has a lot of pull on all the comparatively tiny things on its surface?

Oh, what should I call this mysterious force? Hmmm... I think I'll call it gravity.


This statement tells me you have no clue what it takes to qualify as a scientific theory. It's a hell of a lot more than just some guy having a loose idea of something and is usually built on a mountain of evidence to support the conclusions. You could say they have a lot more gravity than your layman theories.


Yeah, that one is good enough for most everyday cases, but for more extreme cases you should look to Einstein's theory of general relativity if you need more precision for your predictions about the gravitational forces.
If you believe what some scientists who work for the US Military have claimed regarding them being "taught" things by other beings, gravity DOES exist but there are ways to cancel its effects out(apparently Tibetan Monks also know about this and use certain sound frequencies to this effect), and they claim we have a very limited understanding of how the universe and things like physics work in it. Basically, they claim they were told that we just don't understand a lot of things and some of the things we use as "absolutes" are simply flat out wrong.
 

Serenity

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If you believe what some scientists who work for the US Military have claimed regarding them being "taught" things by other beings, gravity DOES exist but there are ways to cancel its effects out(apparently Tibetan Monks also know about this and use certain sound frequencies to this effect), and they claim we have a very limited understanding of how the universe and things like physics work in it. Basically, they claim they were told that we just don't understand a lot of things and some of the things we use as "absolutes" are simply flat out wrong.
This tells me exactly nothing and without the US military doing anything to prove these claims then it's nothing more than a stupid rumor designed to instill doubt in certain people. Completely worthless information. Besides, who exactly in the US military or not said this? Is it verifiable?
 

Serenity

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Just because you would fall if I threw you off a cliff doesn’t prove gravity.
Yes it does. Just like saying the sun gives off light by the fact that it's fvcking bright when you look at it. The reason you fall down is called gravity, now you can call this force whatever the fvck you want, but without it you won't fall. The rest of the population just calls it gravity. You can deny it until the day you die, but this fundamental force is still called gravity and it's the force that makes stuff fall to the ground. Go into space and the effects of gravity from Earth quickly decreases, you will no longer experience gravity and as a result you'll float freely in all directions.

Gravity is as directly observable as our need to breathe. It keeps your feet on the ground.
 

logicallefty

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I have no idea why people don’t come with scientific facts countering anything I’ve said and choose instead, childish ridicule. Oh wait, I know exactly why.
I am with you Murk. Regardless of how "stupid" people think your post is, we have guys on here, who need to just shut up and let the conversation take place. This thread reminds me of women in a bar. There is an annoying "creepy" guy who always sits in the same place and gets on their nerves. Rather than sit somewhere else in the bar where he can't bother them, the women here are going and sitting next to the guy and then b|tching that he is getting on their nerves. Why not just go sit somewhere else aka go to another thread if they think this thread is so dumb? Pleanty of other good threads and topics on this forum.
 

BackInTheGame78

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This tells me exactly nothing and without the US military doing anything to prove these claims then it's nothing more than a stupid rumor designed to instill doubt in certain people. Completely worthless information. Besides, who exactly in the US military or not said this? Is it verifiable?
Scientists who worked for them
 

Serenity

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Scientists who worked for them
Who? What's their names and credentials? I can also say some scientist somewhere said something, it has zero credibility. Even if they are named it still has no credibility unless they say something that is actually scientifically verifiable by others, until then it's just "some guy said...", a claim without any substance.
 

Deranged

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This is beyond the scope of my comprehension, but I like seeing such open minded and even against the grain discussion going on here. Question everything!
 

Serenity

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This is beyond the scope of my comprehension, but I like seeing such open minded and even against the grain discussion going on here. Question everything!
Here's the simple version.

Stuff falls to the ground, most people call this phenomenon gravity.

OP refuses to call this phenomenon gravity without even providing an alternative label and claims gravity doesn't exist.

It should not be necessary to explain why OP's claim is ridiculous, sh!t falls down and even before Newton or Einstein invented mathematical models to predict how it behaves, gravity was always a very real phenomenon which could easily be empirically observed by anyone living on the surface of Earth.

Had OP been born in the weightlessness of space and lived his entire life there I might have understood why he would seriously question the idea of gravity without ever experiencing it, but I am assuming he has experienced it his entire life like the vast majority of us. So it is strange that he denies the existence of something so obvious.

He can doubt the validity or accuracy of the theories of gravity, Newton's equations are proven wrong in more extreme circumstances, which was fixed by the work of Einstein, but even that has a couple of holes in even more extreme cases. The theories can be lacking or even wrong, but the observable phenomena these theories set out to explain still exist. OP is claiming a phenomenon easily observable by even the dumbest among us just doesn't exist, like saying stuff falls to the ground, but just not naming this phenomenon anything.

Stuff still falls down, most people call it gravity, a few people (like me) understand the prevailing theory for how this works and I'd say literally nobody understands absolutely everything about it, such is science. OP just denies all of it as he's of course free to do, but just like the people who really understands gravity he's in a small minority who denies it exists.
 
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