The number one reason the dating market actually sucks for men is because.....

[Slowhandluke]

What you described was somewhat of the standard in 1800s and pre-1960 United States. The 1960s is when there was a loosening of sexual cultural standards in the United States. The introduction of the birth control pill in 1960 and the adoption of no-fault divorce in most US states in the 1970s are 2 key events in the loosening. California was the first state to pass a no-fault divorce law in 1969. This 2009 article is a good history of divorce in the USA from 1960s-2000s.

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-evolution-of-divorce

The loosening of sexual cultural standards has been associated with pre-marital female promiscuity.
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A lot more men are getting a woman now with a substantially higher notch count than in the 1970s. Also, the 2010s data points end around 2012-2013. Imagine what it is like now in the 2020s.

A lot of men figure out how to use elements of Game (looks, money, status, and personality/charisma tactics) between 25-34. A more Game-aware guy in his late 20s might be using psychological seduction tactics that women were using on him 10 years earlier. If a 29 year old guy is using seduction tactics on a 26-27 year old woman, he's using them on a woman who has had 10 years to put up notches.



This is a common scenario for men in their 30s/early 40s. The more Game-aware guys will use this knowledge and focus on either casual sex or serial monogamy without legal commitments. There are still enough single male thirsty betas out there who outnumber single females who will commit to a woman with a high notch count.

this seems like a reasonable assessment. actually being alive in the 80s, I remember people talking about girls who's still had their virginity and the debates adults were having as if it was a good thing or not.

 

[pipeman84]

this seems like a reasonable assessment. actually being alive in the 80s, I remember people talking about girls who's still had their virginity and the debates adults were having as if it was a good thing or not.

What was there to debate about?

 

[SW15]

being alive in the 80s, I remember people talking about girls who's still had their virginity and the debates adults were having as if it was a good thing or not.

What was there to debate about?

There's an argument that less was known about the effects and longer term effects of female promiscuity in the 1980s as compared to the 2000s-2020s.

There was likely still a discussion about whether the pre-1960s type model with a virgin bride getting married and being a homemaker for a large part of that marriage was still beneficial for women. Feminists had been intensely against during the 1950s-1970s. Some viewed female sexual experimentation in that era as a good thing.

 

[Slowhandluke]

What was there to debate about?

This is me as an 8 year old or 10 year old at the time (pre-aids):

Typical conversation between an adult:

Rick: Sally is a slut. She's no good for Bobby. Did you see how she dresses. She's probably not even a virgin.

Other people: but its okay. They love each other besides Bobby doesn't mind. So what's she's not a virgin. Times change.

Rick: i think Bobby deserves better. I know the marriage is going to fail. You can't marry a slut and expect her to be faithful. It's not going to work. He's going to regret it for the rest of his life.

Other people: Rick stop thinking like an old man. Society is different. The pill. women empowerment. It's a brand new world. Virginity. Being chaste and not dating around. That's the old way of thinking. Besides how are young people going to know who they really want to marry if they don't date around? We have so many forms of birth control, it doesn't matter now.

Rick: (begrudgingly) I guess so. I still don't like it. Something is wrong about it, but I'm not sure what it is...


Yeah, those were the type of conversations I heard when I was a wee little boy. I didn't really care too much about it at the time because Transformers, kung fu fighting, saturday morning, cartoons, Atari video games, etc.. etc... were much more important, but the conversation (or the type of conversations) came up enough times that I did remembered. them.

 

[Slowhandluke]

There's an argument that less was known about the effects and longer term effects of female promiscuity in the 1980s as compared to the 2000s-2020s.

There was likely still a discussion about whether the pre-1960s type model with a virgin bride getting married and being a homemaker for a large part of that marriage was still beneficial for women. Feminists had been intensely against during the 1950s-1970s. Some viewed female sexual experimentation in that era as a good thing.

Female promiscuity is a failure. The old system where the majority of women were chaste while there was town bicycle for men to "test drive" and practice their pua skills on. That was how it was for generations and IMHO it worked. Letting women date around, and experiment. It just gives the majority of women the inability to pair bond. Basically, act like a wh0re... become a wh0re. Most wh0res will not pair bond because it's not in their best interest. It's human nature. They "pair bond" with men in "general"... not with just one man, because deep down inside, if a woman cannot be loved and taken care of by one man, her body will naturally assume she needs every man to take care of her - which in fact is true due to the fact she has slept with so many men. I think it's a biological advantage for women who has slept around (voluntary or involuntary throughout history) to not pair bond with one guy.

The sex slave cannot pairbond with just one guy. The hooker cannot just pairbond with one guy. Sleeping with so many men, a "switch" is turned on inside a woman telling her not to bond with one guy because it's not advantageous for her. it's biology. Just my theory.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Rick: Sally is a slut. She's no good for Bobby. Did you see how she dresses. She's probably not even a virgin.

Rick: I think Bobby deserves better. I know the marriage is going to fail. You can't marry a slut and expect her to be faith fall. It's not going to work. He's going to regret it for the rest of his life.

Rick: (begrudgingly) I guess so. I still don't like it. Something is wrong about it, but I'm not sure what it is...

Is this Rick guy still alive? If he is, please buy him a beer on my behalf. Im courious if Bobby´s marriage worked out

 

[Slowhandluke]

Is this Rick guy still alive? If he is, please buy him a beer on my behalf. Im courious if Bobby´s marriage worked out

There were a lot of "Ricks" back then. Man, it still amazes me how many women were virgins at the time. I think someone brought up the status, 1 in 5 women were virgins. Dang. I'm sure in certain circles, it was probably even more. When I was in highschool, when a girl slept with 1 or 2 guys in highschool. She was labeled a slvt. Normal guys would not date her... while some guys would date her for sex "under the radar"... and some guys would do it openly - those were the bad boys who didn't give a shiet. Most normal girls would avoid the bad boys. They didn't want to get a reputation.

 

[zekko]

The main reason the market sucks for men is become men find a large portion of the female population attractive, but women find most men unattractive.

I also saw a recent study that said that half of women find other women attractive. Women's bodies are built to be erotic and attractive, men's bodies are built for action.

 

[Slowhandluke]

Women's bodies are built to be erotic and attractive, men's bodies are built for action.

God give the average young woman attractive bodies to trap an average guy. Not to sleep around with chad. God give the hooker the ability NOT to pair-bond so she can sleep with a lot of men and not care about it. Because life is mostly random, we don't know what the future brings: fortune or ruin. God give women the ability to NOT pair-bond in times of desperation simply by acting like a hooker. Women today think sleeping around is plan A. However, throughout history, sleeping around was plan B. Times of famine, times of war, times of ruin, etc. Plan B was to sleep around.

 

[DreamAgain]

Female promiscuity is a failure. The old system where the majority of women were chaste while there was town bicycle for men to "test drive" and practice their pua skills on. That was how it was for generations and IMHO it worked. Letting women date around, and experiment. It just gives the majority of women the inability to pair bond. Basically, act like a wh0re... become a wh0re. Most wh0res will not pair bond because it's not in their best interest. It's human nature. They "pair bond" with men in "general"... not with just one man, because deep down inside, if a woman cannot be loved and taken care of by one man, her body will naturally assume she needs every man to take care of her - which in fact is true due to the fact she has slept with so many men. I think it's a biological advantage for women who has slept around (voluntary or involuntary throughout history) to not pair bond with one guy.

The sex slave cannot pairbond with just one guy. The hooker cannot just pairbond with one guy. Sleeping with so many men, a "switch" is turned on inside a woman telling her not to bond with one guy because it's not advantageous for her. it's biology. Just my theory.

There was a poster here who asked, well if how are men supposed to get experience so they don't mess up with the girls they actually want?

The point is, when a girl is a virgin, or has a low body count let's say of 1 or 2, there is either a non-existent or very low point of reference to compare with. So even you being an inexperienced male won't work against you because she won't be able to grade you harshly by the "mistakes" you are making, since she won't know to recognize them.

And if you really wanted to get that experience, there was that small sub segment of girls, the h0es or town bicycles just like you said, who would give it up and do a lot of freaky sh1t, and probably get you to a level where you could impress the girl you really wanted. And guys would make fun of you that your girlfriend was a h0e, but of course she wouldn't be a girlfriend, just a plate as the term here is used.

Nowadays funny enough these plates are becoming girlfriends, where before you would be ridiculed for doing this.

 

[BoostedArrow]

When basically all the girls are sleeping with multiple guys and racking up numbers, that a notch count of below ten is regarded as low, then that is the market for guys. Girls will have notches and like previously said they struggle with pairbonding, so family creation is getting harder and harder. Finding a virgin wife is difficult to impossible.

Additionally for guys it's difficult to get laid. Women view 80% of guys as unattractive, and 4.5% as attractive. So average guys can't get experience while their girlfriends have quite the string of notches.

So for the average guy there's no incentive to even get a gf past 30. He prob won't get anything out of it. Definitively no genuine desire.

 

[Smok1nAce]

The top 20% of men are rotating between 80% of women. There's a lot of good data backing this up, and the 80-20 rule for dating is highly reproducible. This is where simps are coming from, the pool of 80% of men that are pushed out. This doesn't just happen on its own out of nowhere. About 1/3 of gen z men have nobody, and I've been told many times gyms are full of zoomers going the red pill route. It's not a made up problem in their own heads.

A big crisis of our time is that there is currently no mechanism for the dating market to correct itself at all. The concept of one-man-one-woman in marriage until the end has already been dissolved. How does it self correct now?

Predictions of the form "All X will begin to Y, then Z will happen" almost never hold up because it's looking at the problem from a bottom-up populist / democratic viewpoint, where major social changes just sort of happen spontaneously without any leadership, elite support, financing, promoting incentives, or top-down decisions (everyone is afraid of being called conspiracy theorist, so they never bother asking who's in charge nor reading their books).

oh now its 20%

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

Don't know much about the states, but in China, the fact that all parents only wanted to give birth to male babies (it's a culture thing) rather than female ones over many decades now brings a consequences: Due to shortage of chicks, the SMV of chicks there have been inflated crazily, making it's almost impossible for the average chinese Joes to find a girlfriend. This, ultimately, led to another negatively social trend: Many of them average Joes now just "lie flat" (tangping) aka making just enough income to live by without any hope/dream/intention to thrive further in a society they deemed too fvcked up for them to try.

Tangping: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57348406

The funny thing is that many men are quiet quitting work/dating while many women are so delusional that even in a favourable market end up single and childess and get called left-over women.

It's really true that women never downgrande when it comes of men and life style while being unable to get that their league depends on men willing to commit and not men willing to smash.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Those same women in their 30-50’s that aren’t settling for an ltr with a less desirable man are still getting smashed by someone.

Wonder who….hrm

 

[Slowhandluke]

Nowadays funny enough these plates are becoming girlfriends, where before you would be ridiculed for doing this.

Well, if you really think about it. The word "girlfriend" has changed. It's basically the same thing as a "plate" now a days. In the past, the title of girlfriend meant there was a high likelihood of getting married. It was a big deal to be someone's girlfriend.

The "girlfriends" of todays, are the hoes of yesterday. It's just that society accepts it more. An average girl might think she's the "girlfriend" of a chad, but lets admit it, she's just a plate. If she knows it or not, it doesn't matter. She's basically a hoe... and unlike in the past, nobody calls her out on it.

Taylor Swift is a hoe. We don't call her out on it. However, transport her back to the 70's - 90's; most of the population would agree she's a hoe. If a girl slept with a lot of guys regardless if it was because the guys were a smooth talker, they lied to get into her pants, etc.. etc.. or because she was "discovering herself" and finding out what she "likes"; the result was the same. Society marked her as a hoe. Society doesn't do this anymore, but the consequences (not being able to pair bond) still exists.

 

[Slowhandluke]

You really are a Slow Hand “Luke”

I'm shakin it boss

 

[SW15]

So for the average guy there's no incentive to even get a gf past 30. He prob won't get anything out of it. Definitively no genuine desire.

If this average guy is 30+ and having sex with a similarly aged woman, he's getting something out of it. He's getting sex, which has physical and psychological benefits. It is better than being an incel.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

Those same women in their 30-50’s that aren’t settling for an ltr with a less desirable man are still getting smashed by someone.

Wonder who….hrm

You?

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

You?

I could tell you but then I’d have to kill you.

 

[BadBoy89]

Taylor Swift is a hoe. We don't call her out on it. However, transport her back to the 70's - 90's; most of the population would agree she's a hoe. If a girl slept with a lot of guys regardless if it was because the guys were a smooth talker, they lied to get into her pants, etc.. etc.. or because she was "discovering herself" and finding out what she "likes"; the result was the same. Society marked her as a hoe. Society doesn't do this anymore, but the consequences (not being able to pair bond) still exists.

She's not a hoe. She's a modern feminist.

A woman has the right to have sex with anyone she pleases, strangers included. Causal sex is empowering to women. If you don't believe a woman should sleep with as many men as possible you are misogynistic and it's these types of chauvinistic beliefs in society that are holding women back from their true potential.

I'm a feminist too.