The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[Jair213]

wow. legendary

 

[dangdang]

Update- HB calls me an hour ago (after about a dozen texts from her which I ignored) and I pick up.
Since the restaurant drama, I have had about 40 hours to think it through.
MY Mil training kicked in and i was indeed prepared for a counter assault. The second assault is a tougher battle because both sides know about the other's strengths,weaknesses and resources..

Here is the abbreviated version of our convo..

HB, "Jophil I know that you are upset...can we talk ?"

Jophil," About what ?" ( I draw her out into the open)

HB, " That suggestion that I needed three other men was just an idea that Leanne floated past me. WE were not really serious."

Jophil," Look I am due to be someplace else in a half hour but I thought about your suggestion and I think that it is a great idea. "

HB, " HUH ! "

Jophil, " Next time you talk to Leanne, thank her for giving me a great idea. I plan to find another three women to fulfil all my needs. I have alloted you the 'sex slave' position. Gotta run...."

Click.

Bump for awesomeness.

 

[Bizzle13]

Jophil,

First off, massive kudos for the way you handled that! I'm still struck with AFC-ness and would probably (regrettably) have gone down the 'whatever's best for you' route while constantly thinking 'I should walk! I need to get out' but not doing it which eventually leads to a 'what's she doing? Who's she with? I bet she's sucking someone off then kissing me on the lips when she gets back' every time she's not with me. Award winning AFC mentality I know.

But my question is where do you go from this? Say you hold this attitude with a woman who actually interests you and challenges you in a positive way. Then you become exclusive and everything goes well, do you continue with this attitude and mentality or does it fade over time? I can only imagine a woman would get sick of this once you get to the living-together phase. Myself personally I feel as though I could do this with a girl I don't have massive interest in long term or short term with a girl I have high interest in but eventually I'll revert to nice guy going out of my way for her and organising nice little surprises. I know this is AFC but surely a LTR can't continue with such a 'fcuk you, I'm my own independent man' attitude can it? I know women are merely an extension of yourself and not a part of you, therefore getting rid if need be is easy as you don't lose yourself. But surely eventually a woman will become a part of you (in later life, living together, kids etc). What then?

I know it's a long way away but I'm wondering how to handle it if I treat a girl like this but them things get serious and I find myself wanting to be 'nice' etc. any help is appreciated guys, thanks.

Bizzle

 

[Atom Smasher]

Bizzle, Jophil can't answer you because he died of an illness a few years ago. This is an old thread.

However, your question is valid and worthy of discussion. This is far from a comprehensive answer, but in any relationship you need to lay the groundwork where she fears losing you and where she considers you to posses higher value than her. As soon as that dynamic flips, the relationship must go downhill. The death knell of a relationship is when the man gets comfortable and lazy. He starts acting too nice and accommodating, and she loses respect for him. Stick around here and you'll learn the nuances of this.

There's nothing wrong with being nice, but it must be carefully balanced with being distant, mysterious, and the unquestioned authority in the relationship. The "niceness" becomes the reward for good behavior and therefore is a tool by which a man can align her behavior with your expectations.

A woman can only be truly attracted to a man who she considers to possess higher value than herself. That desire continues as a relationship grows.

 

[Bizzle13]

Bizzle, Jophil can't answer you because he died of an illness a few years ago. This is an old thread.

However, your question is valid and worthy of discussion. This is far from a comprehensive answer, but in any relationship you need to lay the groundwork where she fears losing you and where she considers you to posses higher value than her. As soon as that dynamic flips, the relationship must go downhill. The death knell of a relationship is when the man gets comfortable and lazy. He starts acting too nice and accommodating, and she loses respect for him. Stick around here and you'll learn the nuances of this.

There's nothing wrong with being nice, but it must be carefully balanced with being distant, mysterious, and the unquestioned authority in the relationship. The "niceness" becomes the reward for good behavior and therefore is a tool by which a man can align her behavior with your expectations.

A woman can only be truly attracted to a man who she considers to possess higher value than herself. That desire continues as a relationship grows.

I'm so sorry to hear that about him seems to put my position and a lot of other stuff in to perspective.

I understand what you're saying and it makes perfect sense! I was being overly nice to her for no reason whatsoever, nothing big just buying small things she liked such as her favourite chocolate as a little surprise. Some bigger things like paying to go out when I was skint myself but just wanted to make her happy. The way things have gone I think the damage may be done and she may have lost that respect for me. As much as I try and lay it down and possess higher value (it's over whatsapp while she's on holiday, acting unphased over our situation etc) I don't feel like I am in control, so I clearly can't be.

She continues to tell me how much she likes me but says she's not ready for a relationship. Which I never expected as she's not long got out of a LTR but truth is I don't know what I want, would like to carry on seeing her and see where it goes but my insecurities eat up at me and I know for a fact if she said lets get together officially I'd take it in a second. When I'm in a relationship I'm secure, never get jealous and am totally trusting until someone proves that I shouldn't trust them. But just seeing someone or dating is difficult for me cause it's all new, I feel I have no control in those situations. Any help? Thanks

Bizzle

 

[federelle]

that's it

 

[BeDJ]

Did you just bump a bump?

 

[Atom Smasher]

Bump

 

[guru1000]

As evidenced by this thread, Jophil did not acquiesce to her fatuous frame grab, nor did he succumb to the "lonely old man" machination--all while battling terminal cancer.

He remained resolute to his ideals in the most destitute of times. He never complained. A true hero and DJ authority; an example for all.

Respect.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Yup. He and I used to write to each other at least 3 to 4 times a week and he never even told me he was sick.

 

[jamesbarba]

I for one am finding this thread / FR very informative, thanks Jophil28!

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

You are only as disposable as you allow yourself to become.

Women negotiate and compromise with words, but as men we need to negotiate with our outright presence, leaving is powerful

 

[Black Widow Void]

Yup. He and I used to write to each other at least 3 to 4 times a week and he never even told me he was sick.

I recall telling a former girlfriend (who at the time had survived cancer) that if I had a fatal illness that I wouldn't tell anyone. She asked why and I said because I wouldn't want anyone to treat me any differently or delicately. I would want my remaining months to be treated as "business as usual."

As someone that didn't know if she was going to make it through her cancer, she said that it's not a fair thing to do. She said that through her counseling, she learned that it doesn't allow others (the survivors) to come to terms with things.

Years later, her cancer came back and I was made aware that she had 6 weeks to 6 months max. She actually died the 5th week. I then understood what she meant about the survivors being able to come to terms.

Atom Smasher, I can imagine that this was a bit difficult for you.

Jophil responded to (I believe) my first posting here on sosuave. I never got to know him as you, but I really respected his thoughts and approach.

She acts like a cat - any tips appreciated

So far, things seem to be going fairly good, but this could change any day. I'm having to fake a lot of attitude with this one. If I put on the casual move, she not too receptive. Once I just sort of give off the non verbal vibe of "okay, let's just get through the day and try to enjoy the...

www.sosuave.net

 

[zekko]

I can't believe it's been at least eight years since Jophil passed, seems like only yesterday. After all this time he remains one of the posters here that I most strongly remember.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Atom Smasher, I can imagine that this was a bit difficult for you.

Jophil responded to (I believe) my first posting here on sosuave. I never got to know him as you, but I really respected his thoughts and approach.

Yes it was tough. Now that I think of it I think I was vaguely aware that he was going through some kind of illness, but we never directly talked about it. He was a genuinely great guy.

 

[bat soup]

Here is the short version of a recent 'event' -

Been dating HB7 for a while now - almost a year. Good woman, conventional morals, mainly respectful but a tad avoidant and passive. She thinks that I am a "loveable assh0le" - perfect !
Anyways she tells me a month ago that she "needs to see someone" about her relationship with her overbearing sister and some unfinished business with her Dad.
SO she goes to the Business Pages and finds a clinical psychologist who agrees to see her. Lets call the psych Leanne. Leanne apparently is a feminist and a liberal. My spidey senses go on alert.
HB attends two sessions and hits the booze for an hour or so directly after each session.
I am seeing yellow flags waving. She also mentioned that her relationship with me is of particular interest to Leanne.

Two days ago she attended her third session.
We go out to eat afterwards and she says, " Jophil, Leanne said that I might need up to FOUR men in my life to fully meet my needs."
MY alarm bells ring loudly so I politely excuse myself and take a trip to the bathroom.

So I quickly figure it out. She has turned her sessions with Leanne into a bytche fest and Leanne is contaminating the interaction with her own agenda.. Another dimwitted counselor forcing one of her faddish ideas into the mind of a vulnerable client.

Back in the day before I joined SS , I would have asked HB to explain in detail what is going on with Leanne . I would have debated every tiny sliver of information about what 'advice' Leanne is stuffing into HB . I would have tried to 'reason' with HB and assure her that what liberal Leanne is proposing is some fashionable crap from the loonie left of feminism.

In effect, Leanne was telling HB that she is 'the Prize' and that her relationship needs are so extensive and so exquisite that one mere male (me) could not possibly satisfy them all. Therefore, HB should seek other men to 'attend ' to her as well .

So I return to my seat across the table from HB and say," HB, so Leanne suggest that you might need three other men to fulfil you and satisfy all your needs? "

HB," Yes. that is what she suggested that I look at."

Jophil," So you will have vacancies for three other men."

HB, " Err, I guess. "

Jophil (stands up ), " You have that number all wrong - you have FOUR vacancies now."

The look on her face was priceless. Eyes as big as as dinner plates and a jaw drop that almost wrecked her dental work.

I walked to my car and drove away. The first thing I thought of was this forum.

MY phone is melting down with incoming from her.

I expect a visit from HB any time now.

I can understand that she needs one from the front and one from behind, but what about the other two?

 

[bat soup]

One for each hand.

I was thinking one for each ear or nostril.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Inspirational.Just inspirational.Read this whole thread from beginning to end.

 

[Barrister]

Great thread. Really showcases how this place used to be as well. Jophil seems like he was a consummate DJ.

Having said that, I can't imagine a therapist telling a woman she needs 3 men in her life -- all the while knowing her client is in an LTR. I do wonder if it was Jophil's girlfriend that decided to somewhat twist what was said in order to make a frame grab in her relationship with Jophil -- despite Jophil believing it was the therapist pulling the strings behind the scenes. Just seems downright bizarre, and unethical, to offer such reckless advice.

 

[Willie Naylor]

There's a reason the therapist always wants to hear from the woman first.