The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[jophil28]

Aww shucks, I'm blushing.

Thanks, Terry.

 

[wait_out]

...So I ring her bell at the agreed time and she opens the door in a towel, hair in rollers and talking on the phone to "suzie" - her best girl. I know Suzie - unfortunately. She is one of those women who are always "in trouble" with unavailable men. Suzie lives in a world of fantasy about married guys, dropkicks and playas.
SW continues to chat to Suzie up and down the hall as I circle the living room looking at the clock...

A switch flipped to OFF inside me. I slowly walked to her front door, opened it and walked to my Lexus in her drive and backed out. I guess that I drove for about five minutes before my phone rang. I ignored it. Two texts followed . Arrived at Bow Thai and ordered my favorite. Two more texts from SW and one VM. Jungle curry tasted great....

SW started calling again about 1am -this time with the assistance of a bottle of the Barossa Valleys finest Chardonnay. I'm watching the late movie. She was all "sorry that I held you up but Suzie was a mess...why did you walk out ?" She really did not see the serious disrespect in what she did. I just said thank you for the call and hung up.

I expect a call or ten from SW today after she has had time to concoct a defense and somehow shift the blame across to me...

I swear , they do not grow wiser as they grow older.

This is how guys should act. The hard part is rewarding yourself internally for pulling the plug on girls who are undateable, rather than thinking if you had some brilliant stratagem things could have gone differently.

This is a theme at this point. I left my amazing-but-unstable BPD ex in the fall of 2008 and what got me out was finally putting my self-respect above my emotions. Girls pull all sorts of misbehaviour on guys from irritating, to manipulative, to abusive. It is important to assign blame where it is due. The problem is not always low interest levels or the guy not being 'alpha', some girls are egotistical or disrespectful and you are better off learning how to live without them while keeping your ego intact. I'm pretty much there but this story was some next-level ish Jophil.

Start writing your field manual J

 

[jophil28]

This is a theme at this point. I left my amazing-but-unstable BPD ex in the fall of 2008 and what got me out was finally putting my self-respect above my emotions. Girls pull all sorts of misbehaviour on guys from irritating, to manipulative, to abusive. It is important to assign blame where it is due. The problem is not always low interest levels or the guy not being 'alpha', some girls are egotistical or disrespectful and you are better off learning how to live without them while keeping your ego intact.

That is some wisdom .

Many times ,trying to raise her IL or amping up your 'alpha quotient' to make her behave will not make one dot of difference in the long haul. Certainly her behavior may change in the short term in REACTION to your sudden assertiveness, but it is unlikely to change permanently.

The party with the most significant pathology will always control the relationship. As long as we persist in LTRs with CLuster B women believing that we can transform a hot shrew into an pretty angel, we will always lose.

The way to win is not to play.

 

[zekko]

Unlike 'normal' women, BPD women run away from impending intimacy with a guy. Then when she feels the distance (that she created) she panics and tries to draw him back into her web. Soon she again feels engulfed by the expectations of being in a couple, so she fakes up some nonsense to create a separation to relieve her feelings of being overwhelmed and trapped.. And the cycle repeats and repeats ...

Well, you know what they say.
Life is one darn thing after another.
Insanity is the same damn thing over and over again.

I know personality disorders are not technically considered "insanity", but it's close enough.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Nice. 10 pages in and there's still a lot of lessons to be learned in this thread.

The more I read the more charged up I get and think to myself "Why the f*ck can't I do this too?!"

As simple as this is it sums up the entirety of most AFCs problems. Victory Unlimited is fond of saying "anything you can't say NO to makes you it's slave", but that's only the symptom of the greater problem - why can't you say no?

Guys don't follow through with being resolute (as JOPHIL is reporting here) because of fear. They fear not being able to get "as great a girl" as the one they're with again. They fear having to brave rejection again. They fear experiencing the emotional disconnect from someone they think they didn't deserve to get with in the first place. They fear losing their ONE soulmate.

For as much criticism as I take for Plate Theory and non-exclusivity, JOPHIL is practicing exactly this with confidence and results, with 22 y.o.s no less! Options, and the proven capacity to generate them, are the root of confidence. How do you say NO? Know that you can. It's much easier not to give a ƒuck, when you really don't give a ƒuck. There's always been this self-determined, self-recognition of valuing yourself and living up to something that looks like integrity from a great many contributors here on SS, but the question always remains - how do I achieve confidence? Cultivate options, and know, truly KNOW from prior experience that you have and can generate more if need be.

 

[jophil28]

As simple as this is it sums up the entirety of most AFCs problems. Victory Unlimited is fond of saying "anything you can't say NO to makes you it's slave", but that's only the symptom of the greater problem - why can't you say no?

Guys don't follow through with being resolute (as JOPHIL is reporting here) because of fear. They fear not being able to get "as great a girl" as the one they're with again. They fear having to brave rejection again. They fear experiencing the emotional disconnect from someone they think they didn't deserve to get with in the first place. They fear losing their ONE soulmate.

Exactly right..

It is also true enough that.."ANYONE whom you cannot say no to will treat you with disdain and will exploit your willingness to obey."

The fear, to which RT refers above, is probably operating within all of us -essentially it is the fear of loss of something, or someone, whom we believe we cannot live without or whose presence in our lives makes us "complete" or, at the least, is responsible for our happiness.

One of the universal behaviors which chumps demonstrate is their reluctance to say "no" to their SO. Their thinking is that saying NO will infuriate her and destabilize their relationship as a result. They are right - it will . Why wouldn't it after the last 40 years of 'woman worship'.

WE can only hope to change this in our own sphere of influence. Change it one 'date' at a time, one sh1t test at a time, one fake drama at a time, one show of disrespect at a time, one shaming email from her at a time, one awkward moment with her at a time.
Endlessly writing protests on this forum will not reset the imbalace of power. Ranting about women and their selfishness will not alter it. "Reasoning" with a woman will rarely achieve much. Launching an evangelical crusade by preaching to other men will fail because they are more confused, whipped and buried in the Matrix than you are.

SO how do we resume our rightful place as leaders and heroes?

I am planning to do it by taking risks with women, assuming a posture of boldness and doing what is "right"..right for you as a proud man...morally right, ethically right, just plain RIGHT according to my rules of engagement. Standing upright.

I am willing to lose her...in fact I am willing to lose all of the women in my life because they are NOT my raison d'etre. My self value is my reason . Exchanging self respect in return for a supply of pvssy is probably the worst trade a man can make.

And paradoxically, gentlemen, there is a powerful mysterious force operating within human nature that draws people (and women in particular) to us when we send the message that their presence or their contribution is not vital, or even neccessary to us.
The indifference principle at work ,perhaps.

Atlas Shrugged.

 

[samspade]

Good stuff here, gentlemen. A nice reminder that I still have room for improvement.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Troops!



"One of the greatest revelations that a man will ever have AFTER he first discovers women is that no matter how great or how grim their presence IN his life, or their presence "make" his life---------he is still destined to exit this life-----ALONE."

Victory Unlimited copyright 2005 from "The Many Missions of Victory Unlimited!"


Though this is a HARD statement that I have made many years ago, it is actually NOT meant to be a DEPRESSING one. Instead, it is only meant to slap many men across the face who have been inebriated by the euphoric pull of Pussssy with the cold, leather, stinging glove of SOBRIETY.

And living a life filled with more periods of sobriety should be the goal here.

Why?

Because many unhappy relationships, miserable marriages, and GRAVEYARDS are filled to the brim with men who have lost themselves, their hopes, their dreams, and their overall missions in life due to mistaking any particular woman IN their life "for" their life.

For those who tend to read faster than they think, I advise you to read the above statement again-----but S-L-O-W-L-Y.

Now, to briefly revisit the relevance of the opening quote I have reposted at the top, the reason why I believe that it is important to remember is because sometimes we forget.

We "forget" that our lives are made up of more than the pursuit of pleasure ONLY. There are things that we can do here during our brief time on this earth that have an imporance that is much more far reaching. And the reason why we forget is because we are under the influence-------under the influence of one desire over another one. So caught up can we become in romance and procreation that we forget all about our, at least, "equally" important missions of overall LIFE enhancement and SOLUTION creation.

Everything we do in life either creates a problem or solves one. And every person ever born either adds to the problem or becomes a part of the solution.

How many inventions, modern advancements, spiritual insights, nations liberated, lives saved, works of art created, etc. would NOT be here if the MEN who created these things were SO drunken with the love drug that they TOTALLY neglected the other aspects of their lives????

A woman's presence in a man's life should make his life better because of it------not worse.

Sometimes, MANY times, the thing that most call "love" is little more than emotional obsession.

And emotional obsession, whether it be over a woman, or over some "thing", by it's very nature, gives a man a sort of immobilizing tunnelvision that prevents him from doing what he was born to do:

To SOLVE a fukking PROBLEM.

So instead, he BECOMES a fukking problem----to other people first, and then ultimately TO HIMSELF.

As long as we allow ourselves to be sidetracked by people, things, or "women" who do not add to our forward motion, who do not help fuel our inner creative fires, and who prove themselves to in fact be OPPOSITION to our overall life's mission----------then we have met the real saboteur:

And that saboteur is "us".

Everyone we meet down here as we march our way through this life, over time, either proves to be our ally or our enemy.

Very few people that we encounter here, "AND" who leave a significant impact on our lives is NEUTRAL. And the unfortunate part about this is that many of us only discover the true positive or negative nature of involvement with others through the Night Vision Goggles of HINDSIGHT.

Nevertheless, I believe we all do ourselves a greater service by holding all people, all life events, and all "women" just firmly enough to enjoy the richness of the experience-------while simutaneously holding all of these same people, life events, and women loosely enough that should they cease being a part of our lives, their "exit", no matter in what manner it may occur, will NOT destroy our lives.

Many a man only finds out after it's TOO LATE that the danger of making a woman his "life" only succeeds in leaving him with "life-LESS", when and if she exits.

To make a woman a significant PART of your life can be a great thing. But being able to know when it's time to "man up" and jettison a woman OUT of your life is a thing that is equally as great.


Thanks for the lesson General JOPHIL.

Thank you for giving us a glimpse of your passion for your OWN LIFE "in action".



PEACE to you and all the soldiers "from the Land Down Under"...one day.




VU

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Fortune favors the Bold.

And long may General Jophil's bold ascension over the power of pvssy stand as testament to all who come here. To all seasoned veterans, to all men on the path, and to all bewildered AFCs who find their way here, may this story serve as reading material in the waiting room at the Temple of DJ Enlightenment.

 

[Nutz]

In the event his post does get nuked:

"I read what Message Boy said. Although I know jophil's not with us anymore, I have to say, I support jophil's actions. Yes, he could have sat down with her and explained to her what she did wrong, why he's drawing out this war with her.

But the fact is he doesn't have to. He has his own rules, and one of them probably goes like this: never waste time/effort on a nutcase or a woman who doesn't respect you. This rule is quite understandable, considering his previous experience with women. And he stuck to his rule. He simply up and walked away. Who can blame him? Everyone makes their own rules, and this one saved his ass this time around."

I experienced a woman who slipped up from time to time and I saw the monster inside and ended it quickly and painlessly (for me) best I could. Helps I spun multiple plates so the impact was negligible. My point though is that you don't draw out a relationship when you know it's not going to work out. Either dump her or put up mental and emotional walls and make it clear to her where the boundaries are in your relationship. If she crosses the line then she's gone. This tracks specifically to my advice that men need to have standards and expectations of behavior on the woman's part, and communicate to them what will happen if they fail to measure up. Also, men MUST stick to their guns and dump the woman if and when the time comes. Going back on your word will make things so much worse for yourself it's so bad I can't even put it into words.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Here here, Nutz. I agree wholeheartedly, especially what you said about communicating to them what your boundaries are and the implications for crossing those boundaries. Too often men don't clearly communicate those boundaries and women stumble across them unawares.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

This thread was enlightening -- countless bits of gold. I can't agree more that 'rationalizing' a situation like this with a woman is a complete uphill battle, and really a self-dug grave. In fact, the deeper the conversation comes about these things, the more damage that is really done to the frame itself.

If Jophil (may we be thankful for his sharing of these experiences and all that he contributed here) had tried to rationalize with this woman through these issues, he would have volunteered over his frame -- and it would have been over anyways.

I entirely agree that relationship counseling and even a great deal of self-help books around the subject can be more destructive than anything else -- the advice promoted more often than not surrenders frame -- and from direct experience, relationship-based counseling has done direct harm to past relationships. It seems to allow for, just as was discussed in this thread, a sort of authority-via-proxy, a "headmaster" for the relationship itself -- and at that point it's fvcked already. Incredibly informative thread.

 

[macagent]

This thread was enlightening -- countless bits of gold. I can't agree more that 'rationalizing' a situation like this with a woman is a complete uphill battle, and really a self-dug grave. In fact, the deeper the conversation comes about these things, the more damage that is really done to the frame itself.

If Jophil (may we be thankful for his sharing of these experiences and all that he contributed here) had tried to rationalize with this woman through these issues, he would have volunteered over his frame -- and it would have been over anyways.

I entirely agree that relationship counseling and even a great deal of self-help books around the subject can be more destructive than anything else -- the advice promoted more often than not surrenders frame -- and from direct experience, relationship-based counseling has done direct harm to past relationships. It seems to allow for, just as was discussed in this thread, a sort of authority-via-proxy, a "headmaster" for the relationship itself -- and at that point it's fvcked already. Incredibly informative thread.

+1 Fantastic thread!

 

[zekko]

It is a good thread.
Didn't Jophil end up staying with this girl though?

 

[Amo]

RIP Jophil. I wish I had known you earlier. You are a DJ among DJs.

Forgive me mods, but I had to.

 

[AW1983]

Wow, sorry to add to the necro, but this was a fountainhead of pure gold. Jophil's legacy has inspired me greatly.

Thanks too, amohield.

 

[Mouser]

Just sent an e-mail to George Clooney.

###

Dear George, Uppsala 26/01-12


Like your work - but stopped watching TV and movies 2 years ago.


Nevertheless I have a gem of a story which needs a leading male (you) to make it a picture like, well, like no other picture I've seen anyway. It would be a comedy-romance-drama where you would have to even dance a little salsa with a HB. Oh, yea, a combination of Pulp Fiction and Saturday Night Fever.


The script needs writing but the whole film is done in my head. The protagonist has many trials, he falls in love with a BPD who all but destroys him during his two year relationship, he rebounds to become a regular poster and resident guru on a PUA blog, he meets and bonds with a new HB and then battles renal cancer to which he succumbs at the tender age of 54.


A photograph of the real man with his final partner, in life and dance, can be found at "jophil sosuave" by googling it.


And the best part is his words and wisdom on the PUA blog.


Do you want an academy award George?


Here is your chance. Look at the picture, read his posts as Master Don Juan jophil28 at Sosuave blog.


The movie poster will read: "George Clooney is Jophil"


Jophil was a great, great man.


Please contact me if you're interested.


Sincerely,


P.S. The movie takes place on the Gold Coast of Australia.

 

[Desdinova]

Moved to The Archive...

 

[goundra]

I have made one stop her car and I got out and walked. She rolled it along the shoulder BEGGING me to get back in! I had several similar instances with the same gal, and it kept her where I wanted her for MANY years, until she went off her manic meds and was unlivewthable

 

[paxinsall]

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