The counseling profession and their mindgames.

ZenGodMod

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I'm so late in this thread! Shame on me, always the last.

It's obvious this relationship is over and Jophil is just dragging the dead.
If she was ever really serious about this relationship, then just the idea of not being exclusive would have been disrespectful to the HB7-ish herself.

An idea when presented to her from a male perspective was too ridicules for her. Jophil, you still entertain her? Or you've dropped the Axes already?
 

jophil28

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squirrels said:
This is MEN's fault. Women are so used to being able to control men by regulating the flow of sex that they behave in these inexplicable manners and expect men to just bend to their wills. When they find a man who doesn't, they collapse into an inexplicable state of confusion.
Weekend FR ( down here we are about 20 hours ahead of Pacific Time in Nth America).

Short version-

HB has called twice ( Saturday) basically asking ," Where are we at ?" I have evaded the question so far. However I did find myself asking her whether she considered Leanna and Leanne's 'advice' helpful based on the results so far.
No answer from HB that made much sense.

Went out Salsa dancing with hot Zana from Macedonia Friday night. THis 22 year old has PERFECT light olive skin and front page magazine looks. We laughed and danced for four hours and she told me a zillion times how she" loved this with Jophil - so much fun !"
Talk about rejuvenation of mind, body and spirit - mine, that is. I will see her again in the studio Tuesday night.

Now, a little drama story. I asked a single woman( call her SW) in my social group out last Thursday night - the date in fact was for last night (Saturday) I suggested Thai and maybe some music/dancing later.. She jumped at the offer .

Anyway I made a reservation for 7:30pm at a favorite eatery called Bow Thai. ha.

Called SW and said I would collect her at ten minutes before 7pm. I mention that the restaurant table is booked for 7:30 and we need to drive for a half hour or so.
So I ring her bell at the agreed time and she opens the door in a towel, hair in rollers and talking on the phone to "suzie" - her best girl. I know Suzie - unfortunately. She is one of those women who are always "in trouble" with unavailable men. Suzie lives in a world of fantasy about married guys, dropkicks and playas.
SW continues to chat to Suzie up and down the hall as I circle the living room looking at the clock.
SW is putting little effort into getting dressed and mostly is involved in gasping at Suzie's latest drama.
I am circling faster and getting irritated.
By 7:10pm I heard SW doing bathroom activities but still not at the earrings and makeup stage. We are going to be late- very late.

A switch flipped to OFF inside me. I slowly walked to her front door, opened it and walked to my Lexus in her drive and backed out. I guess that I drove for about five minutes before my phone rang. I ignored it. Two texts followed . Arrived at Bow Thai and ordered my favorite. Two more texts from SW and one VM. Jungle curry tasted great.

I was seated very near a party of about twenty people who were celebrating a quite attrctive woman's 40th birthday. They invited me to join them and the rest of the night was legendary. Got the birthday girl's # and had a blast.

SW started calling again about 1am -this time with the assistance of a bottle of the Barossa Valleys finest Chardonnay. I'm watching the late movie. She was all "sorry that I held you up but Suzie was a mess...why did you walk out ?" She really did not see the serious disrespect in what she did. I just said thank you for the call and hung up.

I expect a call or ten from SW today after she has had time to concoct a defense and somehow shift the blame across to me...

I swear , they do not grow wiser as they grow older.
 
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window

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Jophil that was a great move, most guys would have hung around for 1/2 in the living room only for her to come out and say sorry about that hope you didn't mind...she could have quite easily said to here friend "look I've got company coming around to pick me up and I need to be ready will call you tomorrow."
 
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zekko

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A switch flipped to OFF inside me. I slowly walked to her front door, opened it and walked to my Lexus in her drive and backed out.
Damn, you are an @ss. Well done.
 

ThunderMaverick

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I rarely have people that I really admire.

Jo, you're in that small category. Your resolve is a joy to read about. You're a hero to me.
 

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Danger

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Jo,

I really think something about BPD women affects men in this manner. I too have become intolerant of poor behaviour since leaving my BPD ex. The funny thing is, I used to be completely intolerant of it in my late teens and early 20's. Then something happened to me along the way and I was somehow transformed (at least partially) into the "Nice Guy". When I finally snapped and ended it with the BPD, it felt liberating.

If I can walk away from a woman as knockout gorgeous as she was, then I should have no problems walking away from situations in the manner that you do.

Keep up the amazing work, you really are an inspiration.

BTW, I finally realized what this post reminded me of. There was an old set of movies called "The Martian Chronicles" and I remember watching it as a kid. At one point in the movies there was only one man left on all of Mars and he called the largest Beauty Parlor in the Colony to see if there was any woman left alive....and there was!

He raced there as fast as he could to find a woman that said "We may be the last two on Earth but I'm just not comfortable enough to have sex with you yet." She then yapped and yapped and talked about she had a million things for him to fix, and how he had to wine her and dine her, blah blah blah. He walked to his car and just drove away never to come back. I never knew that man was actually Jophil.
 
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Tazman

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I have to say Jophil, you're actions are inspiring. I don't think I know a single guy with the balls to do what you just did, but I do know from having to force myself to do things like this that the payoff in peace of mind, self respect and the effect it has on some women, is priceless.

I try to advise my closest friends but I've come to the conclusion that men who stand their ground and follow their own path are an endangered species. They can't see the forest for the trees.
 

jophil28

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Danger said:
Jo,

I really think something about BPD women affects men in this manner. I too have become intolerant of poor behaviour since leaving my BPD ex. The funny thing is, I used to be completely intolerant of it in my late teens and early 20's. Then something happened to me along the way and I was somehow transformed (at least partially) into the "Nice Guy". When I finally snapped and ended it with the BPD, it felt liberating.
Yes I agree. My 'experience' with a BPD/HPD whack also drove me to formulate a set of vows, and an SOP to to live by. I realized that there are quite a few women on the single scene who have acquired an 'attitude' of arrogance and superiority. They expect to be pedestal dwellers their whole lives . However, after my BPD crash and burn in 2006, I was forced to examine why we men so readily comply with women's wishes, and why we do so without questioning the wisdom of doing so.
This forum endlessly challenges our deeply entrenched beliefs.

When I came on this forum I was bruised and beat up from trying to create a relationship with a woman who played all the BPD/HPD songs. At the time I was just doing what I had always done with women, BUT with a BPD woman the regular 'rules of engagement' only work for a few weeks, and then she switches into full BPD mode.. Unlike 'normal' women, BPD women run away from impending intimacy with a guy. Then when she feels the distance (that she created) she panics and tries to draw him back into her web. Soon she again feels engulfed by the expectations of being in a couple, so she fakes up some nonsense to create a separation to relieve her feelings of being overwhelmed and trapped.. And the cycle repeats and repeats ... until you find the courage and the will to leave, or she dumps you because she feels that anyone who still wants her after all she has done is not worth having.

Life with a BPD woman is the worst rollercoaster, but usually the best sex imaginable until she uses sex rationing to punish, reward or control you. By this time the frame is so damaged that it can never be repaired or reclaimed by you.

I do not believe that I have a bigger set of "balls" that any of you guys. What I do have is a self crafted set of rules and guidelines to apply to disrespectful situations with women. And I am willing to use them , sometimes ruthlessly if the situation warrants it.

Curiously, as much as I disagree with a lot of STR8up's stuff, his "walk away" strategy made sense with me after I got past the belief that "walking away" was a kind of surrender, or admission of defeat.

I now embrace the power of silence and the power of just walking away from a woman who is acting poorly.

BTW, My HB from the early part of this thread is calling a few times a day - I'm going to deal with her as soon as I figure out what I want from her.

MY hot 22 year old Latin dancer is texting asking for more .

And I just received a text from SW apologizing and gushing .

THis is gonna be a busy week.
 
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Tazman

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It's funny how the experiences of someone your age is actually breathing new life into this forum as of late. I mention your age because usually you don't see the kind of behavior you're displaying in men at that range. By then most have just given up or are so deeply entrenched that the anticipation of sex on their birthday, from their wives, is like buying a new sports car......
 

ThunderMaverick

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jophil28 said:
MY hot 22 year old Latin dancer is texting asking for more .

And I just received a text from SW apologizing and gushing .

THis is gonna be a busy week.

Please don't lump yourself in with STR8UP. He wouldn't have to balls to do what you did this week. I'm serious man, you're a hero to me. The more I read the more charged up I get and think to myself "Why the f*ck can't I do this too?!"

You're right, I can.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

jophil28

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ThunderMaverick said:
The more I read the more charged up I get and think to myself "Why the f*ck can't I do this too?!"

You're right, I can.
Yes you can -so just do it.
IT just takes a decision to NOT be obedient when it does not suit you or violates your rules of engagement.
A pivotal moment of reclamation.

We are raised and conditioned to 'please' women.
Well, one in particular- deal ole mom. Saying NO to your mother was almost a mortal sin - right ? And that is where it all started.
Our mothers would reward our compliance with treats, a trip to the beach, or perhaps TV privileges and punish offenses harshly, or refer the worst violations to Sheriff Dad..

Curiously we now discover that the same compliance with the demands ,wants and expectations of other adult women brings exploitation and demands from her for more, more, more.

We are not kids any more gentlemen, and we do not need Mommie's approval for our survival.
 
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jophil28

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ThunderMaverick said:
Please don't lump yourself in with STR8UP. He wouldn't have to balls to do what you did this week. I'm serious man, you're a hero to me. The more I read the more charged up I get and think to myself "Why the f*ck can't I do this too?!"

You're right, I can.
Make no mistake here - victory comes from struggle, and struggle always brings damage and loss.

Are you willing to bear the wounds that are inevitable on the battlefield ?

Paradoxically, the worst battle is that conflict within .
 

Jitterbug

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Respect!

If only more men do that, women would never annoy us with their BS again.

The power of silence and walking away is the best one a DJ has. Which btw is the reason why marriage is such a bad deal for us, because it takes that power away (or rather, attaches a huge, life-turning-upside-down cost to its execution).

Talking about dear ol' Mum, I was trained from a young age by Her to say Yes to her and No to every other woman. :D Even when I had no Game and no knowledge of this place, I always placed self-respect above everything and would walk away when the other party is being unreasonable or showing disrespect. After the relationship with my HPD ex - whom I dumped after the 2nd time she pulled the distance BS on me (their excuse to run away from relationship expectations) - I'm even more militant about it.

Make no mistake here - victory comes from struggle, and struggle always brings damage and loss.

Are you willing to bear the wounds that are inevitable on the battlefield ?

Paradoxically, the worst battle is that conflict within .
I don't know how calm & collected you would be with all that experience, but for me, as I walk away, I'm always fairly pissed off (although I rarely show that on my face) but know that I'm doing what's best for myself.
 

Scaramouche

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Dear All,
Yes Jophil has breathed life into this Forum,certainly the best Blow by Blower we have had for a long while.
Without criticising Jo I stand in awe of his consummate skills,he has amazed most of you guys bacause he is doing what you would like to do,he is a true DJ...But it doesn't take as much balls for him...Why,because he has options and why does he have options?well for a start he has a background as a Professional Engineer,a tough game where he has to live with his mistakes and perform an apprenticeship negotiating with some of the hardest Bvastards on Earth.
Then Jo is Socially skilled,his powers of communication enable him to crush any one with his Pen,the words of logic that come from him can counter all but the best....but Jo is no lily livered intellectual,he has fire in his belly.
Encounters with a seriously evil BPD have left him hardbitten,cynical and ever wary of the gentler svex.
But the Joker in Jophils hand again at the risk of being tedious,is his position within his Dancing circle.....Anyone wants to Know their Mambo moves Ask Jo,he has respect and that's what Women like to be associated with.
Dancing is a skill we are possibly hard wired to respect,a feeling rooted in our primitive origins,it suggests,the Health and vigour of a virile person,a prime candidate for breeding,at the least today it says this Guy is alive.
The point of this little rant....What I am saying is commendable as Jos actions are,and much as we should strive to emulate his persona,when faced with similar situations,those who have the Balls without his skill and personality,will just gain a Pyrric victory,like cutting off their nose to spite their face.
 

jophil28

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Aww shucks, I'm blushing.

Thanks, Terry.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

wait_out

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jophil28 said:
...So I ring her bell at the agreed time and she opens the door in a towel, hair in rollers and talking on the phone to "suzie" - her best girl. I know Suzie - unfortunately. She is one of those women who are always "in trouble" with unavailable men. Suzie lives in a world of fantasy about married guys, dropkicks and playas.
SW continues to chat to Suzie up and down the hall as I circle the living room looking at the clock...

A switch flipped to OFF inside me. I slowly walked to her front door, opened it and walked to my Lexus in her drive and backed out. I guess that I drove for about five minutes before my phone rang. I ignored it. Two texts followed . Arrived at Bow Thai and ordered my favorite. Two more texts from SW and one VM. Jungle curry tasted great....

SW started calling again about 1am -this time with the assistance of a bottle of the Barossa Valleys finest Chardonnay. I'm watching the late movie. She was all "sorry that I held you up but Suzie was a mess...why did you walk out ?" She really did not see the serious disrespect in what she did. I just said thank you for the call and hung up.

I expect a call or ten from SW today after she has had time to concoct a defense and somehow shift the blame across to me...

I swear , they do not grow wiser as they grow older.
This is how guys should act. The hard part is rewarding yourself internally for pulling the plug on girls who are undateable, rather than thinking if you had some brilliant stratagem things could have gone differently.

This is a theme at this point. I left my amazing-but-unstable BPD ex in the fall of 2008 and what got me out was finally putting my self-respect above my emotions. Girls pull all sorts of misbehaviour on guys from irritating, to manipulative, to abusive. It is important to assign blame where it is due. The problem is not always low interest levels or the guy not being 'alpha', some girls are egotistical or disrespectful and you are better off learning how to live without them while keeping your ego intact. I'm pretty much there but this story was some next-level ish Jophil.

Start writing your field manual J :cool:
 

jophil28

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wait_out said:
This is a theme at this point. I left my amazing-but-unstable BPD ex in the fall of 2008 and what got me out was finally putting my self-respect above my emotions. Girls pull all sorts of misbehaviour on guys from irritating, to manipulative, to abusive. It is important to assign blame where it is due. The problem is not always low interest levels or the guy not being 'alpha', some girls are egotistical or disrespectful and you are better off learning how to live without them while keeping your ego intact.
That is some wisdom .

Many times ,trying to raise her IL or amping up your 'alpha quotient' to make her behave will not make one dot of difference in the long haul. Certainly her behavior may change in the short term in REACTION to your sudden assertiveness, but it is unlikely to change permanently.

The party with the most significant pathology will always control the relationship. As long as we persist in LTRs with CLuster B women believing that we can transform a hot shrew into an pretty angel, we will always lose.

The way to win is not to play.
 

zekko

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Unlike 'normal' women, BPD women run away from impending intimacy with a guy. Then when she feels the distance (that she created) she panics and tries to draw him back into her web. Soon she again feels engulfed by the expectations of being in a couple, so she fakes up some nonsense to create a separation to relieve her feelings of being overwhelmed and trapped.. And the cycle repeats and repeats ...
Well, you know what they say.
Life is one darn thing after another.
Insanity is the same damn thing over and over again.

I know personality disorders are not technically considered "insanity", but it's close enough.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Nice. 10 pages in and there's still a lot of lessons to be learned in this thread.

The more I read the more charged up I get and think to myself "Why the f*ck can't I do this too?!"
As simple as this is it sums up the entirety of most AFCs problems. Victory Unlimited is fond of saying "anything you can't say NO to makes you it's slave", but that's only the symptom of the greater problem - why can't you say no?

Guys don't follow through with being resolute (as JOPHIL is reporting here) because of fear. They fear not being able to get "as great a girl" as the one they're with again. They fear having to brave rejection again. They fear experiencing the emotional disconnect from someone they think they didn't deserve to get with in the first place. They fear losing their ONE soulmate.

For as much criticism as I take for Plate Theory and non-exclusivity, JOPHIL is practicing exactly this with confidence and results, with 22 y.o.s no less! Options, and the proven capacity to generate them, are the root of confidence. How do you say NO? Know that you can. It's much easier not to give a ƒuck, when you really don't give a ƒuck. There's always been this self-determined, self-recognition of valuing yourself and living up to something that looks like integrity from a great many contributors here on SS, but the question always remains - how do I achieve confidence? Cultivate options, and know, truly KNOW from prior experience that you have and can generate more if need be.
 

jophil28

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Rollo Tomassi said:
As simple as this is it sums up the entirety of most AFCs problems. Victory Unlimited is fond of saying "anything you can't say NO to makes you it's slave", but that's only the symptom of the greater problem - why can't you say no?

Guys don't follow through with being resolute (as JOPHIL is reporting here) because of fear. They fear not being able to get "as great a girl" as the one they're with again. They fear having to brave rejection again. They fear experiencing the emotional disconnect from someone they think they didn't deserve to get with in the first place. They fear losing their ONE soulmate.
Exactly right..

It is also true enough that.."ANYONE whom you cannot say no to will treat you with disdain and will exploit your willingness to obey."

The fear, to which RT refers above, is probably operating within all of us -essentially it is the fear of loss of something, or someone, whom we believe we cannot live without or whose presence in our lives makes us "complete" or, at the least, is responsible for our happiness.

One of the universal behaviors which chumps demonstrate is their reluctance to say "no" to their SO. Their thinking is that saying NO will infuriate her and destabilize their relationship as a result. They are right - it will . Why wouldn't it after the last 40 years of 'woman worship'.

WE can only hope to change this in our own sphere of influence. Change it one 'date' at a time, one sh1t test at a time, one fake drama at a time, one show of disrespect at a time, one shaming email from her at a time, one awkward moment with her at a time.
Endlessly writing protests on this forum will not reset the imbalace of power. Ranting about women and their selfishness will not alter it. "Reasoning" with a woman will rarely achieve much. Launching an evangelical crusade by preaching to other men will fail because they are more confused, whipped and buried in the Matrix than you are.

SO how do we resume our rightful place as leaders and heroes?

I am planning to do it by taking risks with women, assuming a posture of boldness and doing what is "right"..right for you as a proud man...morally right, ethically right, just plain RIGHT according to my rules of engagement. Standing upright.

I am willing to lose her...in fact I am willing to lose all of the women in my life because they are NOT my raison d'etre. My self value is my reason . Exchanging self respect in return for a supply of pvssy is probably the worst trade a man can make.

And paradoxically, gentlemen, there is a powerful mysterious force operating within human nature that draws people (and women in particular) to us when we send the message that their presence or their contribution is not vital, or even neccessary to us.
The indifference principle at work ,perhaps.

Atlas Shrugged.
 
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