The counseling profession and their mindgames.

[ThunderMaverick]

When this story is all said and done I suggest it be moved to the archives. =D

 

[backbreaker]

this thread is just full of absolute win.

every newcomer should be made to read this thread. you have s umped up what being a DJ is about in 5 pages.


i personally would cut her off. I've taken walk away to a militant level. Not walking away becuase I am trying to prove a piont. Walking away becuase life is to short to deal with trival bull**** from trival people. I have better things to do with my life.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Jophil,
Something has really crawled up this Woman and Died.....there is a Tipping point after which it is impossible to reason with them....I can read a feeling of resignation in your words and actions,I like the way you handled her,but there will be no going back,sorry about that mate...This Woman is so very unhappy,Why?....I think it is worth finding out....To blame Leanne is silly,she is merely a catalyst....my last Wife,left the marriage after putting me in Hospital,that was a lucky break for me as it enabled me to hump her out and slap a restraining order on her.....Subsequent discussions with her gave not a clue as to why she had suddenly soured,when asked she said there were massive issues between us,if I couldn't see what they were,it seemed pointless for her to explain.maybe you trod on her new shoes while doing the Bolero?...Jophil,I think you need to ask yourself what it was attracted you to this Lady in the first place,we all carry a little badge on our lapel inviting a certain personality type to enter our lives.Your graphic descriptions in past threads of your terrible encounter with a BPD girl,invites the question,was this Lady a few sandwiches short of the full picnic hamper?....for the sake of closure,please in the fullness of time try and find out what happened,I for one am intrigued.

 

[speed dawg]

Greatest.....Thread.....EVARRRRR

Keep this story coming...

 

[jophil28]

... women with the propensity to defer to a 3rd party psychotherapist are attempting to control the frame by proxy. Essentially she's expecting you to accept Leanne as the higher authority...

HB came to see me last night to "talk ". (I was in a mood of resignation - 'fix it or finish it ')

She meandered, with little point to the convo, until she said a few interesting things.
Firstly she repeated that Leanne had told her that she might need three other men in her life to fully satisfy all of her needs. Apparently Leanne said this in a 'tongue in cheek" way....I asked HB whether Leanne was encouraging her to recruit three other men because I was not able to 'fulfil' all of them because I was just one mere male in a relationship with an exquisitely sensitive goddess with extensive emotional expectations. I asked her whether Leanne has spoken about this situation in ways that indicated that she believes that HB is 'entitled' to have a man (or men) attend to her.
She sort of meekly nodded at that suggestion.
So I repeated that I would never be willing to be in some kind of male harem.
I was so tempted to launch into an anti-feminist sermon. I really wanted to 'put her straight' about the fraud of feminism and how it had brought more pain and anguish to woman than benefits, but by now I knew that this was a bad move and not the right time.
So I resolved to just make statements of intent- MY intentions .

Jophil," I am saying again. There will be no fanclub for you in which I am a member, never."

She looked pale.

HB," You are so rigid and sure of yourself . Why can't you just soften a bit ? "

Jophil, " What attracted you to me in the first few days?"

HB. " OH I guess it was the way that you just came and 'got' me. You had this 'way' about you - kind of ****y. You almost lifted me out of my chair and carried me on the dance floor..you didn't even ask."

Jophil," Have I changed?"

HB ( grins) " No, you have gotten worse ! "

Jophil," What do you want from me in 25 words ? "

HB, (stumbles and fumbles over her words ...) "Ummmm- not sure really" (She goes silent for half a minute)

HB ( take deep breathe), " Leanne suggested that we stop having sex and that we need to start dating again , first as 'friends'.." ( I hear the intended frame grab buried in this )

Jophil," Yeah, I think that we do have enough for a good friendship WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPECTATIONS. (stands up and ushers HB to front door). Tell Leanne that being 'just friends' is how i see this working best..
Now, I have to be in a meeting in a half hour..."

Fluff talk at front door.

HB drives away.

 

[backbreaker]

HB came to see me last night to "talk ". (I was in a mood of resignation - 'fix it or finish it ')

She meandered, with little point to the convo, until she said a few interesting things.
Firstly she repeated that Leanne had told her that she might need three other men in her life to fully satisfy all of her needs. Apparently Leanne said this in a 'tongue in cheek" way....I asked HB whether Leanne was encouraging her to recruit three other men because I was not able to 'fulfil' all of them because I was just one mere male in a relationship with an exquisitely sensitive goddess with extensive emotional expectations. I asked her whether Leanne has spoken about this situation in ways that indicated that she believes that HB is 'entitled' to have a man (or men) attend to her.
She sort of meekly nodded at that suggestion.
So I repeated that I would never be willing to be in some kind of male harem.
I was so tempted to launch into an anti-feminist sermon. I really wanted to 'put her straight' about the fraud of feminism and how it had brought more pain and anguish to woman than benefits, but by now I knew that this was a bad move and not the right time.
So I resolved to just make statements of intent- MY intentions .

Jophil," I am saying again. There will be no fanclub for you in which I am a member, never."

She looked pale.

HB," You are so rigid and sure of yourself . Why can't you just soften a bit ? "

Jophil, " What attracted you to me in the first few days?"

HB. " OH I guess it was the way that you just came and 'got' me. You had this 'way' about you - kind of ****y. You almost lifted me out of my chair and carried me on the dance floor..you didn't even ask."

Jophil," Have I changed?"

HB ( grins) " No, you have gotten worse ! "

Jophil," What do you want from me in 25 words ? "

HB, (stumbles and fumbles over her words ...) "Ummmm- not sure really" (She goes silent for half a minute)

HB ( take deep breathe), " Leanne suggested that we stop having sex and that we need to start dating again , first as 'friends'.." ( I hear the intended frame grab buried in this )

Jophil," Yeah, I think that we do have enough for a good friendship WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPECTATIONS. (stands up and ushers HB to front door). Tell Leanne that being 'just friends' is how i see this working best..
Now, I have to be in a meeting in a half hour..."

Fluff talk at front door.

HB drives away.

<B>Win through your Actions, Never through Argument

 

[Jitterbug]

Well, that woman is dumb enough to get an outright NEXT. What's your next move, Uncle Jophil? Audition for some fresh legs at Salsa?

I wonder if it's an Aussie women thing that they have to try taking full control of the relationship & are made to believe that they're entitled to such a position. They're obviously happiest when the man takes control BUT soon they will listen to some dumb femcvnt and go for the power struggle.

Of course they do this while telling everyone that they believe relationship should be 50/50.

 

[backbreaker]

HB came to see me last night to "talk ". (I was in a mood of resignation - 'fix it or finish it ')

She meandered, with little point to the convo, until she said a few interesting things.
Firstly she repeated that Leanne had told her that she might need three other men in her life to fully satisfy all of her needs. Apparently Leanne said this in a 'tongue in cheek" way....I asked HB whether Leanne was encouraging her to recruit three other men because I was not able to 'fulfil' all of them because I was just one mere male in a relationship with an exquisitely sensitive goddess with extensive emotional expectations. I asked her whether Leanne has spoken about this situation in ways that indicated that she believes that HB is 'entitled' to have a man (or men) attend to her.
She sort of meekly nodded at that suggestion.
So I repeated that I would never be willing to be in some kind of male harem.
I was so tempted to launch into an anti-feminist sermon. I really wanted to 'put her straight' about the fraud of feminism and how it had brought more pain and anguish to woman than benefits, but by now I knew that this was a bad move and not the right time.
So I resolved to just make statements of intent- MY intentions .

Jophil," I am saying again. There will be no fanclub for you in which I am a member, never."

She looked pale.

HB," You are so rigid and sure of yourself . Why can't you just soften a bit ? "

Jophil, " What attracted you to me in the first few days?"

HB. " OH I guess it was the way that you just came and 'got' me. You had this 'way' about you - kind of ****y. You almost lifted me out of my chair and carried me on the dance floor..you didn't even ask."

Jophil," Have I changed?"

HB ( grins) " No, you have gotten worse ! "

Jophil," What do you want from me in 25 words ? "

HB, (stumbles and fumbles over her words ...) "Ummmm- not sure really" (She goes silent for half a minute)

HB ( take deep breathe), " Leanne suggested that we stop having sex and that we need to start dating again , first as 'friends'.." ( I hear the intended frame grab buried in this )

Jophil," Yeah, I think that we do have enough for a good friendship WITHOUT ANY OTHER EXPECTATIONS. (stands up and ushers HB to front door). Tell Leanne that being 'just friends' is how i see this working best..
Now, I have to be in a meeting in a half hour..."

Fluff talk at front door.

HB drives away.

<B>Win through your Actions, Never through Argument

 

[backbreaker]

this site has become a peice of ****. i've tried to resopnse 5 times now and they dont' show up



<B>Win through your Actions, Never through Argument

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Jophil,
This Leanne Bird,interests me,In the past I dated three Clinical Psychologists,one of whom I had a five month relationship with,the other two were academics with PHD's,further to this I was a close friend and neighbor,with a chap who did his degree in psychology and struggled in this primarily female profession for nearly a year as a Counsellor at a Catholic College,we walked our dogs every morning for years,he ended up,completely disgusted with his colleagues,his training made him an Ace salesman,he sells kitchens now,low key but he makes a lot of money...So I've learnt a little about the Psychologists Modus Operandi,everything about this Leanne seems strange,these people above all are trained to listen,not give way out advice,this four guys business is bizarre,the four essentials in a relationship?not quite Mazlow is it?sounds more like it came out of a Womens Magazine.....A joint counselling session would be interesting,and wouldn't I love to be a fly on the wall as you took her to bits....As It's London to a Brick that HB lied about her reason for seeking advice then why be honest about who her Guru is?....My guess is that Leanne is a Friend or acquaintence with a very strong personality and a reasonable grasp of Pop psychology she seems unable to put at arms distance her own poor relationships with Men....A feminist?No she is not....Twisted up sure,but aren't most of the people in this Quasi Science...I would not rule out the possibility that Leanne is one of these weirdos who fill the ads in the back of many Womens Health Magazines offering Tarot readings,astrological advice and advice to the love lorn for a fee...If HB came round to see you she had something to say,I am not sure she got that opportunity.An open ended question like what are these three other guys offering that I can't?why do most Ladies settle for one guy and you need four?what are the four qualities in the perfect relationship?what can we do to improve things?......seems we have learned very little about what is going on in this mixed up Womans Head Space...like a lot of introverted people HB is probably not able to make a decision on anything herself,but will resent those who make her mind up for her,she will see them as "Controlling"a word that I am surprised has not raised its ugly little head its a companion to "Judgemental"used to qualify anyone who has an opinion.....So in 25 words Jophil,what did you want from the relationship?

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Scaramouche, I love your advice on the post that you make, but please space your sentences. It's driving me crazy! :flowers:

 

[backbreaker]

<FONT face="Book Antiqua"> <B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-STYLE: normal">Law 4

 

[jonwon]

Nice work, but one small criticism.

I wouldn't have even agreed to be friends.

I would have simply said "I have enough friends thank you, you know where the door is, goodbye".

No fluff talk, nothing. When she walks out the door I would have closed it and not spared her a second thought, especcially after this - to me she crossed a boundary along time ago, the option to be civil imo is way past it's sell by date.

I'd write this one off, even if this resolves itself, one can see eventually she will pull out this cra* again at some stage.

The only way i'd even consider dating her after that fact is if, she clearly stated none of this drama was going to be repeated and to clearly state to her, if it is she would be out!

Women shi* test that's a given, but it's clear this girl has disrespected you more then once and the buffer of the shrink used against you, is just further amplifying the fact that this girl is too much drama - Dam being single is more of a pleasure then suffering that cra*.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I really wanted to 'put her straight' about the fraud of feminism and how it had brought more pain and anguish to woman than benefits, but by now I knew that this was a bad move and not the right time.

This would've been like trying to teach a chimp how to use an ATM machine. You could do it, but do you really want to?

After this episode, she definitely uses Leanne as her proxy authority now. She practically defaults to her 'wisdom' before she thinks to speak on her own behalf. It's like you're dating Leanne, who I'm sure sees you and your behavior as a challenge to her ego-investments and now wants to master and subdue you vicariously through the HB in order to reaffirm them.

The "four men to meet her needs" nonsense is simply a ham-handed allegory for what we've already gone over here for half a dozen years - women want a guy who excites and arouses them like the Bad Boy does, but also provides the security, dependability and emotional accessibility that the Nice Guy embodies. The down side of course is that she hates the drawbacks of both, and rare is the guy who can manifest the best characteristics of both. Ergo, she needs multiple men to composite the perfect lover.

Try not to take her too literally. This hogwash is simply Leanne speaking through the HB; it's really Leanne who's self-discovered that it's she who needs multiple guys to make up her ideal male. You're just the focus of this. In the absence of indignation, women will manufacture indignation for themselves (i.e. romance novels, gossip, tabloids, Oprah, etc.) They need this chemical rush to remind themselves they're still alive.

When men get bored we find something to occupy ourselves (hobbies, interests, projects, education), but when women get bored they tend to expect others to entertain them to relieve that boredom. You, by proxy of the HB, are very entertaining for Leanne. This situation has ceased to be (assuming it ever was) about making a better LTR for you and the HB, and has become a game for both the HB and Leanne to "break the philly's spirit" and saddle him with their authority.

 

[jophil28]

This situation has ceased to be (assuming it ever was) about making a better LTR for you and the HB, and has become a game for both the HB and Leanne to "break the philly's spirit" and saddle him with their authority.

Indeed it has.

I guess that HB ( and Ms Psych) was hoping that I would fall on my sword , and cave in - after all what man would readily go without sex, right ?
I recognized that the suggestion that HB and I start over and date from scratch was a power move. Starting over gave HB the opportunity to shape and whittle me, and control the development of the relationship with Leanne acting as coach and manager in the background .

I knew that putting HB in the FZ popped that balloon.

They have NO clue that I am an active member of MM, and in our credo we agree to adhere to the dictum, " self respect before pvssy ".

I am also aware of one of the reasons that I have continued to play along with HB's games.
Back in 2006 I was involved with the most toxic woman i have ever met. SHe was gorgeous but she was batshyte nuts, a master mindfvcker,a compulsive liar and a cheater.
I believe that this current drama with HG gives me an opportunity to work things out in a calm manner and to my advantage in ways that were not possible with Ms 2006.

 

[katatonia]

Why on earth did you agree to being friends?

 

[jophil28]

Why on earth did you agree to being friends?

Think about it this way..

Leanne 'suggested' to HB that she and I should cease having sex and that we should start dating again "as friends" . THis was an attempt at a power grab by withdrawing want they think mattered to me most. Then ( I wager) their plan was that HB was going to slowly 'reward " me with some sex IF I 'performed' to their approval.
They hoped that I would be so upset at "no sex" that I would capitulate to HB's every whim and want and jump though hoops to 'get some '.

BY offering to be friends "without any other expectations" I dismantled their scheme. Instead of pleading and begging and 'reasoning' with her NOT to withhold sex, i agreed with the plan and LJBF her instead...Have you ever been LJBF'ed ? How did you feel ? Who was in control at that moment?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Then ( I wager) their plan was that HB was going to slowly 'reward " me with some sex IF I 'performed' to their approval. They hoped that I would be so upset at "no sex" that I would capitulate to HB's every whim and want and jump though hoops to 'get some '

In Behavioral Psychology (see "Real Psychology") this is called intermittent reinforcement of desired behavior. It is the primary component of Operant Conditioning. In other words, Leanne and her proxy have so little respect for you as a human being that they'll resort to "training" you like an animal.

I should also point out that this also illustrates classic feminine exploitation motives. You must represent some utility to Leanne - HB is just her instrument at this point - enough so that resorting to operant conditioning is warranted. Otherwise why bother? What gain is there in conditioning if genuine sexual desire is compromised as a reward for desired behavior? You must have something else she wants (not sex apparently) that makes the effort justified. The short version: if you were a penniless bum with little or no potential to provide for her there's no reason not to move on to a better prospect in favor of conditioning your behavior.


And almost on cue, Roissy comes up with this today:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-ideal-lover-can-never-be-the-great-boyfriend/

Anyone following the "four lovers to satisfy her" meme in this thread MUST read this.

 

[logic1]

Think about it this way..

Leanne 'suggested' to HB that she and I should cease having sex and that we should start dating again "as friends" .

uhm, I wonder if counselors follow guidelines from say their studies, ect?? Could this be common advice given to women who are having trouble in relationships?? If so.... crazy.

Reason being......................... A man I know has been dating a women for about a year. The women decided she needed to talk to a counselor because her realtionship was not what she wanted in her mind.

The guy told me the psychologist told her to start over and start dating him as friends. Almost the same as what was told to Jophils HB. Errie!!! No sex, ect...... and see where it leads.... Same idea but in different words

Needless to say he tried....... but she still was not satisfied. They are history.

 

[backbreaker]

damnit i want to get this out and i can't take it anymore lol

you ar breaking laws 4 and 9.

you started out winning through your actions, now you are trying to win by your arguements. you need to **** or get off the pot my man. either take her back and forgive, next her, or make her a fuvck buddy until she reproves herself.
you need to stop talking about what you want to do and go do it.


you are in relationship pergertory. you aren't fvcking her yet you aren't fvcking anyoen else etiher. this benefits no one but her. she has the upper hand, you had it. you stunned her. but it's wearing off.

never try to win an arugement with a woman..espically one like this, by talking to them.