Success Rates

[Broham]

How many of the phone #s you guys get become actual dates? I'd say about 1 out of every 5 I get actually materialize into something. Anyone out there with a > 50% success rate?? Maybe this should be made into a poll??

 

[bobbob]

Umm, I'm about 1 for 40 ... so you're not doing too bad

 

[NoMoreMisterNiceGuy]

1-2 out of 10 hotties (at the mall).... only women I like and make me horny just by looking at them ...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Believe it or not I'm batting 1000, here's how. I don't ask for her telephone number until after she agrees to go out with me. That's it.

A woman will only go out with you if she has a fairly high IL. If she doesn't, why bother with asking for a phone number? On the converse side, understand that a woman will give you their phone number for only one of two reasons, either she is interested you or she isn't and she wants you to go away.

So if a woman doesn't want to go out with me, I don't waste time asking for a number. If she accepts my offer to go out, more times than not she offers her number without me even asking.

It seems like I've been on a rant about this for weeks. Why do guys half step and think that the objective is to get a phone number? A phone number is only worth the paper that it's written on. Ultimately you really want to see her again, so why not cut to the chase? You'll be able to easily determine her IL and save the heartache of wondering why she gave you a number (real or fake) but doesn't want to see you.

 

[DJ_Dork]

I would say 1:1.5 ratio.

You should be getting a 1:3 call ratio guys. TO the guys that have good date: number ratio - Are you just aimlessly asking for numbers or can you not read body language. Cause I know this one loser who thinks he's a suave guy but tries to get dates/numbers all the time, he gets shot down most of the time.. and when he does succeed on getting a date, they most likely make him into a friend or use him.

 

[Pugsley_f5]

ATTN Francisco!

Hey Francisco , could you give me an example of the dialogue that you do this this of number asking, could you provide a solid example of how you do this so i can apply it.

 

[Pugsley_f5]

Meaning exactly what do you say to get her to agree to go on a date before you get a number.

 

[Surfboard]

It seems like I've been on a rant about this for weeks. Why do guys half step and think that the objective is to get a phone number? A phone number is only worth the paper that it's written on. Ultimately you really want to see her again, so why not cut to the chase? You'll be able to easily determine her IL and save the heartache of wondering why she gave you a number (real or fake) but doesn't want to see you.

Francisco,

I've been trying to figure out that same question since I first came to this site many moons ago. I must've preached about this for a couple of years and nobody ever figured out how logical it was.

I finally read a couple of responses on some threads that might explain the way some of the guys think.

1) One guy said it makes you look desperate.

2) The other guy said something about how getting rejected over the phone would be bad enough, but getting rejected face to face would be much worse.

I personally think the second response is how most of these guys feel. Who knows? You could always do a poll question, but I doubt that anybody would respond.

Anyway, someday they'll wake up and understand what you've been trying to tell them.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Re: ATTN Francisco!

Originally posted by Pugsley_f5
Hey Francisco , could you give me an example of the dialogue that you do this this of number asking, could you provide a solid example of how you do this so i can apply it.

No, I can't. It's not any specific thing, it's nothing that I rehearse or commit to memory and that is why it works.

Come on guys, women may be naive but few of them are truly stupid. They can tell a line from a mile away. Some women call you on it, others just play along for their own amusement.

Compare it to this; you're in a department store and the salesperson makes 'nice' with you. They give you complements and help you find just the right thing that you want to buy. Of course you appreciate what the salesperson is doing for you but deep down you know their angle, they are giving you lines just because they want you to buy something. You know deep down that these lines were used before on someone else and will be used again after you leave; quicker than a heartbeat.

What I'm getting at is that lines don't work, women hear them practically every day I suspect. So when I engage them in an "off the cuff" lively conversation they are attracted, maybe not by me personally, but at least by the conversation. They're interested because its different to what they are use to. The underlying reason (at least at first) is not for the pick up, it's just conversation. INTERESTING conversation.

And with that interesting conversation, the woman gets to know me. Not thoroughly, but just enough to become intrigued. I'm eventually been told by many of them that they felt like they had known me forever, that they felt just that comfortable with me. I try to make them feel like they are talking with an old friend that they haven't seen in years. An old friend that they would love to spend some time 'catching up.'

All this means is that you need to gain true rapport with a woman before she feels comfortable enough to go out with you. For most guys this means several phone calls. But they have to either be lucky enough to get the phone number first. It sounds like you need something other than luck; what you need is skill.

To gain the skill of gaining true rapport, you have to practice. You need to practice every chance you get so that it becomes natural. You need to practice it until it isn't some memorized lines. It's truly a real conversation. You need to feel comfortable and with that you can help her feel comfortable talking with you.

 

[Tao of Steve]

i started similar posts a while back - check these responses out:


http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=57834

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58109

I almost always get a # when I ask - but few will actually end up going out with me.

even when they do, and even if the kiss and make out, they often flake.

this is so common that I have started to loose the confidence I built by getting so many numbers.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Surfboard


Francisco,

I've been trying to figure out that same question since I first came to this site many moons ago. I must've preached about this for a couple of years and nobody ever figured out how logical it was.

I finally read a couple of responses on some threads that might explain the way some of the guys think.

1) One guy said it makes you look desperate.

2) The other guy said something about how getting rejected over the phone would be bad enough, but getting rejected face to face would be much worse.

I personally think the second response is how most of these guys feel. Who knows? You could always do a poll question, but I doubt that anybody would respond.

Anyway, someday they'll wake up and understand what you've been trying to tell them.

It's pretty interesting that some guys can make being interested in a woman seem like desperation. I wonder if it's because they're desperate? It's almost as if a guy has to be either desperate or soooo aloof and distant that the woman could never tell that he's interested.

As for guys preferring to get rejected over the phone, they are just sad. They're just afraid of women, at least it seems that way. But then again, if they have the worry of being turned down as the foremost thought in their minds, it may be understandable or better put, expected.

Another thing that I can't understand is this thing called "rejection." Why is that word so popular? It's as if some guys feel that if something doesn't goes their way, they are automatically rejected. With that type of attitude it no wonder they can't get a date. Maybe they should work on their perspective of what it really means when things don't go as planned.

Personally, I don't get rejected. I choose not to feel rejected. Trust me, I don't get every woman I approach but I'll tell you that I am never rejected. I don't get rejected because when I make an approach, I am the one doing the choosing. I choose whether to continue talking with a woman or not. If I see that the conversation isn't going quite the way that I like, I end it. No rejection here, I just realize that things won't work out, no big deal.

All in all, it's all the excessive planning and over analyzing that causes most of the confusion. Lean the simple truths about women adjust the ideas to your personal style and your success rate will grow. Rapport and qualifying are powerful tools for every DJ. Without it, RAFC is the best that a guy can do.

 

[FreeStyleZ]

Personally, I don't get rejected. I choose not to feel rejected. Trust me, I don't get every woman I approach but I'll tell you that I am never rejected. I don't get rejected because when I make an approach, I am the one doing the choosing. I choose whether to continue talking with a woman or not. If I see that the conversation isn't going quite the way that I like, I end it. No rejection here, I just realize that things won't work out, no big deal.

If thats how you wanna rationalize it then kudos... but nobody whose gotten anywhere doesnt get rejected.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by FreeStyleZ
If thats how you wanna rationalize it then kudos... but nobody whose gotten anywhere doesnt get rejected.

And those that think the world is full of rejection never get anywhere. If that's all they perceive, that's all they will find, simple as that.

There are guys out there that where their hearts on their sleeves and in an act of "being hard" they prepare for the worse. They learn how to "deal with" rejection. They can't fathom that they have the choice to feel "rejected" or not.

These are guys that let their experiences mold who they are as if they have no inner strength to dictate their perception of their experiences. These are guys that will never tap into their full potential. Read the posts of other true DJs, they will tell stories of times that they chose not to pursue an interaction, do you ever hear them say that they were rejected? But realize, they are real DJs, they dictate their place, perception an attitude in the world. Why would they or anyone choose to feel "rejected?"

In an attempt not to beat a dead horse (again), I'll just say what I've always said, people will only believe the things that they can understand.

 

[-HPNOTIQ-]

Ok...I think I've professed enough times why I feel the NUMBER IS THE GOAL..Honestly, ONS and FBs are my goal...but the number is VERY important...And here's why.

On a good club night..I'll pull 5-6 numbers on cold PUs and dancefloor techniques. Do I plan on calling all of them? Of course not. I have 4 Michelle numbers on my cell phone and can't differentiate them. So I eventually delete them.

My point. The number is MY GOAL so I can call them when it is convenient for me and if SHE is worth it.

If I meet an HB7 earlier on that night...and I invite her to dinner on my only open night of the week...then that open night is closed. My availablity is now gone. How about that HB8 I meet later that night..or even that HB9 who I have more in common with than the HB7...I've already committed..sure I can flake. But why commit in the first place?

The number ISN'T for HER convenience..its for mine. Its far easier to juggle dates when you goal for the number first..and then plan a date according to which girl you want.

And of course..there are flakes..maybe of the 5-6 numbers..2 or 3 find another guy at that club that they want to date more than me. Then that's fine. I've got the numbers I need AND the open days on my calendar to set up dates accordingly.

 

[Broham]

Ok Francisco, I feel what you're saying and I agree that rejection is only one's perception created by their psyche. My initial post wasn't about whether being rejected over the phone was better than in person, but see where your angle is going.

I think that most guys, including myself, are not experienced enough to build enough rapport to be considered "an old friend" in a first interaction with a woman. Not saying its not possible, but it would probably take a much longer time to build enough rapport for a woman to agree to a date.

On the other hand, spending too much time initially with a woman could be counter-productive, as it may make one look desperate, and eliminate the "mystery" factor. When you get her # and wait a few days it brings those two elements back into play (not looking desperate and being mysterious).

This doesn't mean I'm not willing to reinvent the wheel a little and try different techniques. I usually don't arrange a date the first meeting, so therefore I'm going to try this approach and hopefully the results will be delicious.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Tao of Steve
...I almost always get a # when I ask - but few will actually end up going out with me.

even when they do, and even if the kiss and make out, they often flake.

this is so common that I have started to loose the confidence I built by getting so many numbers.

Like I said earlier, most women will give their number to anyone (no offense). The problem is that it means next to nothing unless your interactions progress regularly.

It just seems as if guys suck at qualifying and just go for the easy high of just getting a number. If getting a number is so great, why doesn't it pan out most of the time?

Since a telephone number is basically worthless until there is a progression in the interaction, why put so much weight on it? Why base your success on something that you have no control over? It's almost as bad as basing your success on you winning the lottery.

Here's a suggestion, if you must base your success on something, base it on something that you can control like approaches. Add to that your ability to make a connection with a woman beyond the superficial chit-chat. Base it on things that would make a woman want to see you again.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Broham
...This doesn't mean I'm not willing to reinvent the wheel a little and try different techniques. I usually don't arrange a date the first meeting, so therefore I'm going to try this approach and hopefully the results will be delicious.

That's the right attitude to have. There a lot of truth to much of the theories that are out there but I'll let you in on a little secret; the theories that are time frame based can bite you in the ass when there a DJ with another mindset in the background.

I've been out with several women who found it refreshing that I just asked them out straight away. They said that most of the time they give a guy their number and never hear from the guy until the last minute. They have already gotten pissed off and decide not to go out with them. Think about the three second rule with is possible the most accurate of the time based theories, basically he who hesitates is lost.

Another thing that eludes me is the whole desperation thing. What ever happened to having the woman feel lucky that you are spending any time at all with her? Why aren't guys going out with several women instead of spending all their time with one who they aren't exclusive? This is why so many guys suffer from one-itis.

I'm not sure but maybe my methods may be considered advanced although they really don't seem that difficult. There's nothing to memorize nor is there any schedules to follow. The one thing that helped most for me is to become comfortable, confident and charismatic. After that everything else just fell into place.

One huge thing that I learned is that if something isn't working for you, change it. The phone number, three day rule, being aloof and giving negative hits type stuff did not work for me and it sounds as if it doesn't work for a good portion of the DJs here. All I did was choose what worked well with my personality and everything seemed to become second nature.

So my suggestion to everyone is to take what you learn here, adjust it to your style and change things when necessary. Make the skills your own.

 

[Broham]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
So my suggestion to everyone is to take what you learn here, adjust it to your style and change things when necessary. Make the skills your own.

I totally agree with you on that. You really have to develop your own style, and that comes with experience. There are so many intangible factors we don't consider and nothing is constant, or set in stone, if you will.

There's also a million different situations (just like there's a million different types of girls) that could occur and one must adjust their game accordingly to that as well.

 

[NoMoreMisterNiceGuy]

Originally posted by Tao of Steve
i started similar posts a while back - check these responses out:


http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=57834

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58109

I almost always get a # when I ask - but few will actually end up going out with me.

even when they do, and even if the kiss and make out, they often flake.

this is so common that I have started to loose the confidence I built by getting so many numbers.

I see myself in your exact same situation where I have gotten very picky about which woman I approach...

sometimes I think I do it cuz I see so many failures that Im making excuses to NOT approach and in this way avoid "rejections" ....

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Broham
I totally agree with you on that. You really have to develop your own style, and that comes with experience. There are so many intangible factors we don't consider and nothing is constant, or set in stone, if you will.

There's also a million different situations (just like there's a million different types of girls) that could occur and one must adjust their game accordingly to that as well.

I'm bumping this thread up again because there has been several other threads about failed approaches that were because of not gaining rapport.

It just so happens that a great article by Señor Fingers about Rapport was brought back up to the home page. It's part of "Weapons of Mass Seduction" and is a very worthwhile read.

Here's a link to the entire thread:
BUILDING RAPPORT