success rate drops when I open my mouth

[ApocalypticBroccoli]

Another theory I have is that some women have realised if you make a conversation awkward enough guys will often slip up and reveal their hand's allowing her to take total control of the frame

This is a really fascinating insight.

I had a very odd interaction a few weeks ago that made no sense to me at the time but is explained by this theory.

OTOH, it kinda backfired on everybody involved. I lost the frame but she didn't get control of it either. And I dumped her girlfriend as a result of it (not entirely because of it, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back). I guess everybody lost?

I can't 100% say wether this eye contact is definitively " come talk to me " or " stay away from me"

Dude, "stay away from me" isn't usually communicated with eye contact, but when it is it's painfully obvious. Like she has the word "creep" stenciled on her eyeballs.

Usually my rule is smile + eye contact is a clear go ahead , eye contact alone is just neither here nor there for me

My rules:

1. Avoiding eye contact: leave the poor girl alone
2. Less than one second of eye contact: go ahead and approach for practice, but don't feel bad if you don't get digits
3. One full second of eye contact: you should expect digits
4. Three full seconds of eye contact: she wants you to smash with her right now in the nearest janitorial closet

I'm gonna dig in my heels on that last point, it's never steered me wrong. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it always means what I think it means.

The gym is a particularly confusing environment because women tend to like dressing extremely provocatively , will give eye contact , will hover around men they find attractive and then on another day they will rock up with a boyfreind

Yeah I don't approach at the gym. I consider the gym to be a sacred space to be used for exercise and practicing nonverbal flirting.

On very rare occasions I may approach a girl as she's leaving the gym.

Interrupting her workout to approach is just lame, don't be that guy.

 

[BPH]

More excellent advice. It feels slimy, but it's actually legal in Arizona to record your own conversations without telling the other person (one-party consent state). I should probably start doing this. But since most of my pickup is daygame it happens without prior notice, and I really push myself hard to obey the three-second rule. And I would still feel like a scumbag if I did this.

I'm saying you could just record yourself talking to us, list it as private, and that way we can see how you're coming across.