Submission vs autonomy

[Pandora]

Women have to reconcile submissiveness vs autonomy. Many women do not have life skills. They run on chaos and make emotional decisions. They get into debt, promiscuity, get fat, mental issues etc. They crave male leadership. We all know that a competent male leader turns a woman on like nothing else.

The problem arises when they eventually want to be autonomous. They seem to resent their incompetency and try to rebel against your guidance. This is the conundrum they find themselves in. They need guidance but they will eventually fight back against the male that is guiding them. I told my girl today that submission is a must or else it wont work. Submission to a WORTHY male is the most important factor for a woman's happiness. As a man it is our duty to make sure that we are worthy of being followed.

The most frustrating feeling is when a girlfriend will not listen to your advice. No amount of logic will convince them that they are making a bad decision. This epitomizes the struggle between male and female. Control vs rebellion. The story of Lilith and the story of Adam and Eve exemplifies this ancient struggle.

Btw feminism was one big " i dont need your leadership, I can do it myself". Now look at the modern female.

 

[2Rocky]

Well in looking for a mate, I REALLY don't want to have to make all the decisions. Come to think of it as a leader at work I expect my employees to offer solutions after considering options as well. I try to empower my employees so I don't HAVE to make Every. Single. Decision. Submission is what micro managers want. I want to look big picture and enjoy the results.

I think many guys mistake Submission for Respect. The byproduct of Submission is Resentment. Resentment will erode a relationship more than anything else. There is an IG audio talking about independent women that really nails the concept.

Macy on Instagram: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect for all the work I need done! thank you @daytrailer for the last minute trailer rental!!! Such great service!"

3,600 likes, 75 comments - margueritaranch on July 26, 2022: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect..."

www.instagram.com

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Women have to reconcile submissiveness vs autonomy. Many women do not have life skills. They run on chaos and make emotional decisions. They get into debt, promiscuity, get fat, mental issues etc. They crave male leadership. We all know that a competent male leader turns a woman on like nothing else.

The problem arises when they eventually want to be autonomous. They seem to resent their incompetency and try to rebel against your guidance. This is the conundrum they find themselves in. They need guidance but they will eventually fight back against the male that is guiding them. I told my girl today that submission is a must or else it wont work. Submission to a WORTHY male is the most important factor for a woman's happiness. As a man it is our duty to make sure that we are worthy of being followed.

The most frustrating feeling is when a girlfriend will not listen to your advice. No amount of logic will convince them that they are making a bad decision. This epitomizes the struggle between male and female. Control vs rebellion. The story of Lilith and the story of Adam and Eve exemplifies this ancient struggle.

Btw feminism was one big " i dont need your leadership, I can do it myself". Now look at the modern female.

And many males refuse to grow up, live with their parents, smoke weed and play video games all day and generally have no ambition to make anything of themselves and have no job or have minimum wage jobs.

What's your point?

 

[Pandora]

And many males refuse to grow up, live with their parents, smoke weed and play video games all day and generally have no ambition to make anything of themselves and have no job or have minimum wage jobs.

What's your point?

Most of these men where raised by...wait for it...wait for it....SINGLE MOTHERS.

I totally agree. Many males are losers with no ambition. This is why I said men should make themselves worthy of being followed.

My point is that most of a woman's problems would be solved if she just listened. A female's problems in life are very simple. They are not complicated. What messes them up is that they cant "get out of their own way". When you try to offer advice they want to rebel and this rebellion is what gets them in trouble.

There were many times when I forced a girl to take a course of action. We argued and argued. She finally reluctantly took the course of action and later thanked me for making her do it. Its a constant struggle between autonomy and submission. This is my point.

 

[Pandora]

Perfect example is when men said "hey allowing trans people into womens sport is a horrible idea". We begged and pleaded with them not to do it. They said we were " idiot, wrong, misogynistic etc". Fast forward a few years later and they are suffering for it. Now they are begging us to save them. This is a macroscopic or what goes on in male and female relationships.

It seems that women always have this urge to rebel against the masculine guidance at their own detriment.

Another example is an ex gf. I had to force her to learn Blackjack in order to be a card dealer. She rebelled and wanted to give up because she thought it would be too hard. I insisted that she practice, we fought, i drove out with her to get a Blackjack kit. I made her practice and practice and practice. Later on she thanks me for not letting her quit. Had she just listened to me ( a strong relatively wise male) the process would have been a lot easier. They are like children.

 

[Pandora]

Well in looking for a mate, I REALLY don't want to have to make all the decisions. Come to think of it as a leader at work I expect my employees to offer solutions after considering options as well. I try to empower my employees so I don't HAVE to make Every. Single. Decision. Submission is what micro managers want. I want to look big picture and enjoy the results.

I think many guys mistake Submission for Respect. The byproduct of Submission is Resentment. Resentment will erode a relationship more than anything else. There is an IG audio talking about independent women that really nails the concept.

Macy on Instagram: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect for all the work I need done! thank you @daytrailer for the last minute trailer rental!!! Such great service!"

3,600 likes, 75 comments - margueritaranch on July 26, 2022: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect..."

www.instagram.com

Okay i hear you bro but let's be honest. How many hot YOUNG women can really make their own good decisions? You will have to carry them. This mythical hot young fertile woman who makes mostly good decisions is largely a myth. If women naturally made good decisions they would not hold the majority of consumer debt, the majority of student load debt, single mother rate through the roof etc.

Until they turn 35 yrs old or so you will have to micromanage them. I agree that a by product of submission can be resentment but what is the alternative? We cant let them do anything they want. They are too gullible and agreeable. They fall for everything. Politicians prey on the emotional nature of women. They have them out here marching against their best interests.

 

[Pandora]

Well in looking for a mate, I REALLY don't want to have to make all the decisions. Come to think of it as a leader at work I expect my employees to offer solutions after considering options as well. I try to empower my employees so I don't HAVE to make Every. Single. Decision. Submission is what micro managers want. I want to look big picture and enjoy the results.

I think many guys mistake Submission for Respect. The byproduct of Submission is Resentment. Resentment will erode a relationship more than anything else. There is an IG audio talking about independent women that really nails the concept.

Macy on Instagram: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect for all the work I need done! thank you @daytrailer for the last minute trailer rental!!! Such great service!"

3,600 likes, 75 comments - margueritaranch on July 26, 2022: "I bought a tractor today! I’ve been waiting for this moment since I bought the ranch and I am so excited! It’s small and perfect..."

www.instagram.com

Bro I just watched the tractor IG video. It is pathetic. This guy is saying " women dont need you, they want you". No! They still NEED us.

1.) They need our male tax dollars to support their single mother welfare programs.

2.) They need us to fix their vehicles including the tractor

3.) They need us to teach them to drive the tractor. I promise you a man taught her how to drive it.

4.) They need us for protection against the tiniest of insects.

5.) They need us to fight in Ukraine when they ran away etc etc

You get my point. I dont understand how any man can co sign this nonsense. Its delusional. The truth is the opposite. We dont NEED them to survive, we DESIRE them. They NEED us to survive. Whats wrong with Western men lol.?

 

[bmp2cpm]

Well in looking for a mate, I REALLY don't want to have to make all the decisions. Come to think of it as a leader at work I expect my employees to offer solutions after considering options as well. I try to empower my employees so I don't HAVE to make Every. Single. Decision. Submission is what micro managers want. I want to look big picture and enjoy the results.

I think many guys mistake Submission for Respect. The byproduct of Submission is Resentment. Resentment will erode a relationship more than anything else. There is an IG audio talking about independent women that really nails the concept.

While I agree with this at a high level, the inherent problem of the situation is that ALL WOMEN are insecure.

Think about it. Their value decreases every year. They are always on the lookout for competition. Biology makes all women insecure and no ideology can stop this.

Even the militant feminist, secretly wishes she could be in a relationship where the man leads in most things.

As for delegating, this works best by traditional gender roles, regardless of what modern society tells you.

My wife makes decisions for all things regarding the home. I handle earning, budgeting, and all things finance-wise. It works well.

The submission/respect issue is simply a scenario where the man de-prioritizes the emotional connection with the woman and instead prioritizes being dominant in all things.

So many ways for the man to lose focus on the emotional connection. This is just one way to do it. Lose the emotional connection completely and it is Game Over.

 

[Pandora]

The submission/respect issue is simply a scenario where the man de-prioritizes the emotional connection with the woman and instead prioritizes being dominant in all things.

So many ways for the man to lose focus on the emotional connection. This is just one way to do it. Lose the emotional connection completely and it is Game Over.

Facts. Yes you have to de prioritize the emotional connection and prioritize being dominant.

You also acknowledge that it is a balance. You cant totally ignore the emotional part either.

Does your wife ever buck back and try to fight against your agenda?

Mine goes along with my plan when she is out of her comfort zone. For example when we are travelling to a foreign nation. But when it comes to other stuff she kinda pushes back and her plans are always retarded as fuk lol.

 

[bmp2cpm]

Facts. Yes you have to de prioritize the emotional connection and prioritize being dominant.

You also acknowledge that it is a balance. You cant totally ignore the emotional part either.

Does your wife ever buck back and try to fight against your agenda?

Mine goes along with my plan when she is out of her comfort zone. For example when we are travelling to a foreign nation. But when it comes to other stuff she kinda pushes back and her plans are always retarded as fuk lol.

Agree.

Wife and I are lucky in that the things that are important to her, I don’t care at all about. So she can be in charge of her realm.

And the things I care about, she doesn’t care about and is not good at, so I get to be in charge of what is important for me.

Very lucky to have found a women with this level of compatibility.

All of our disagreements, which are infrequent, occur when she does a sh*t test. We are exact opposites, so the differences can trigger her sh*t test because she is at a loss for my actions, eg they are foreign to her.

Her tests can be quite extensive to navigate.
Some hoops to jump through. But worth it.

First wife we were constantly battling to get the upper hand with each other. Exhausting and nothing ever got accomplished.

 

[Aristippus]

In some ways women are like teenagers. Teenagers think that being an adult = freedom with no responsibility. Or that freedom is being able to make poorly thought out, emotional decisions, usually very bad decisions, and to not have to deal with any negative consequences that follow these decisions.

I've had my wife reply after a much needed correction "You're not my dad.". And my reply back was " Oh yes I am. And here's why you're going to listen to me.". Such emotional and rebellious replies require you to be almost dictatorial and authoritarian. This isn't a matter of always being authoritarian.

Women just tend to go into unreasonable and bat-sh*t crazy states at times and the only remedy to that isn't appealing to their sense of reason or trying to use logic. Begging or pleading is even worse. When she's in that frame of mind the only remedy is authoritarianism.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

There do exist young hot fertile women who are capable of submission. They were raised to understand the value of a solid man. However they are rare and smart men snatch up such women.

All women will be out of sorts at times. Often this is related to the menstral cycle. Hormones. They affect emotion, libido, mood etc and men (whose hormones do not cycle in such a way) may not realize how this affects women. Best approach is to be unphased.

What you want is an autonomous woman who elects to submit to your masculine energy out of respect. To obtain this you must be a man who actually has value and can be trusted to lead. Many men are fools who cannot lead their own lives, nevermind being in charge of a woman or children.

I have been an autonomous woman since my early 20’s. I have to raised my almost 18 yr old daughter to be autonomous too. She has a relationship where she defers out of love & respect. He is an ambitious young man from an intact family. They might marry, time will tell. She has been taught, through discipline to manage and handle her emotions. Just as I learned growing up.

So this is not an either or thing. This is a decision she makes to defer out of love & respect IF you are a man worth that degree of trust.

 

[Pandora]

Advice from the old lady:

There do exist young hot fertile women who are capable of submission. They were raised to understand the value of a solid man. However they are rare and smart men snatch up such women.

All women will be out of sorts at times. Often this is related to the menstral cycle. Hormones. They affect emotion, libido, mood etc and men (whose hormones do not cycle in such a way) may not realize how this affects women. Best approach is to be unphased.

First of all great advice. I didnt say that there are no submissive young woman. I said there are no young hot women that have good life skills. They need male guidance.

Your advice on women being hormonal is gold. I dont think men understand the emotional fluctuations you guys deal with. We can never relate. A womans greatest battle is her emotional stability. A mans greatest battle is control over his sexual urges.

Thanks for the advice on being unphased. I take my girls emotional fluctuations too personally.

 

[Pandora]

In some ways women are like teenagers. Teenagers think that being an adult = freedom with no responsibility. Or that freedom is being able to make poorly thought out, emotional decisions, usually very bad decisions, and to not have to deal with any negative consequences that follow these decisions.

I've had my wife reply after a much needed correction "You're not my dad.". And my reply back was " Oh yes I am. And here's why you're going to listen to me.". Such emotional and rebellious replies require you to be almost dictatorial and authoritarian. This isn't a matter of always being authoritarian.

Women just tend to go into unreasonable and bat-sh*t crazy states at times and the only remedy to that isn't appealing to their sense of reason or trying to use logic. Begging or pleading is even worse. When she's in that frame of mind the only remedy is authoritarianism.

Facts! It sounds barbaric to the normie beta male but its the truth. You have be an authoritarian but make sure that you are worthy of being followed.

That last paragraph is what differentiates a beta male from an alpha male (in regards to gender relations). Alphas males know that they have to ultimately be responsible for their woman. Beta males are afraid to be authoritarian.

 

[Pandora]

To obtain this you must be a man who actually has value and can be trusted to lead. Many men are fools who cannot lead their own lives, nevermind being in charge of a woman or children.

Btw BeExcellent I agree that most men are not worthy of being followed. This is something that we on SoSuave dont often acknowledge. I can understand why many women dont submit.

I am always shocked at how many men routinely borrow money from their woman. I understand once or twice but not routinely. This is especially true in the urban community. I feel very vulnerable whenever I am dependant on a woman for anything. I know that being dependant on the female will eventually lead to her losing attraction for you.

 

[BeExcellent]

Appreciate the props @Pandora and I am not immune to the hormonal stuff either…my guy is like “you know, you’re pretty kooky for a week or so every month…it’s kinda predictable” and he blows me off if I’m on about something stupid (and honestly sometimes I am). Then we straighten up and do fine.

The really bizarre thing about it is that it sneaks up on you. Truly. Because it gradually rises and falls and even though it happens every month for decades…it actually sneaks up. And look it’s taken me YEARS just to acknowledge and own that this is a real thing!! No way I had the maturity & self awareness to call it out when I was much younger & you guys dealing with young women are going to deal with this without fully realizing that’s what it is… precisely because it sneaks up and chicks are often unaware and/or in denial about how the cycle affects mood.

 

[Bingo-Player]

I don't feel this is primarily a woman's fault

Social media has allowed individuals to manifest their perceptions into presentable digital entities , i don't think any of us really understand just how much damage this is doing to society because people then try and bring these digital persona's into reality where they quite simply cannot function

Hence why every week there is some new argument or agenda being shoved down our necks

We now live in a world where everyone is confused about who they are and what they want from life

You can't tell me the vast majority of modern men are capable of leading a horse to water let alone a woman through life

As a species humans are in big big trouble

 

[Bokanovsky]

Well in looking for a mate, I REALLY don't want to have to make all the decisions. Come to think of it as a leader at work I expect my employees to offer solutions after considering options as well. I try to empower my employees so I don't HAVE to make Every. Single. Decision. Submission is what micro managers want. I want to look big picture and enjoy the results.

Yeah, it's called delegation of tasks. That's the whole point of having employees - so that you don't have to do the work yourself.

However, all important decisions are still made in a top-down fashion. Would you allow your employee decide what their salaries and working hours should be? I don't think so.

 

[Modern Man Advice]

I like your points. And I do agree a healthy level of submission is important in that masculine vs female energy. However, that only works if the masculine energy is in tune enough to like you said, be worthy to be respected, trusted, and followed.

Not all submissiveness is healthy. There is codependency in someone so afraid to speak their mind and trust their intelligence/confidence. There is unbalance in one single person in a healthy committed relationship making every single decision. There needs to be mutual trust and respect to allow each other to influence a couple's vision for the future.

My two cents.


Modern Man Advice

 

[2Rocky]

http://instagr.am/p/Cf4qPaou3QK/