starting to lose faith in djbible... what's wrong with acting AFC?

[thechosenone2190]

According to AD and Pook, success with women is just a numbers game. Be yourself, have fun, and weed out low interest girls. Based on other threads, guys are approaching over 100 girls just to get laid maybe once or twice. To me, these numbers are quite dismal.

Is this really what it takes to get results? Isn't acting AFC for one HB way easier than just cold approaching over a hundred random women you see everyday? Acting AFC doesn't take as a large an emotional toll on your self esteem and. image, and if the female rejects your AFC chumpness/niceness/etc, then you can at least point your finger at HER for being the bad guy according to today's standards (think of all the AFC films out there the girl is supposed to feel guilty for rejecting a guy who treated her kindly and nicely). Is it just me, or didn't 99% of guys you see everyday with a girlfriend act AFC to get with the girl in the first place?

i know Pook says "patience is the refined sense of confidence." however, what does that mean? i ask this because it seems to contradict the djbible, which always instructs you to immediately next a women who flakes, has low IL, gives mixed signals etc. what if the woman simply needs more time to feel comfortable around you before seeing you as a potential romantic partner?

And doesn't evolution (based off Dawkin's book "selfish gene") tell us that females will only have sex with a male if he demonstrates to her that he is heavily invested in her and her child? in other words, a nice guy who buys her flowers chocolates etc as reassurance to her that he will not abandon her to care for the child all by herself?

what's with all the DJ advice here to play "hard to get" and "be the chooser" and "you are the great catch"? how does a female increase her genetic fitness by mating with a guy who is so full himself more so than her?

i know the advice here teaches you how to become an alpha male, the dude who got to bang all the hbs. however, back in the caveman days, how do you know that MOST females didn't mate and have monogamous relationships with beta males? the ones who would invest all their resources in her and her child to guarantee that their genes were passed along? in fact, research shows, based on the size of our testicles, that humans from prehistoric times were for the most part monogamous, the same exact way we are today. (explanation: large testicles are required for genes to succeed in a polygamous environment. larger testicles=more sperm released. more sperm needs to be pumped into a female to ensure you impregnate her if every other guy is also banging her if everyone is polygamous. compared to other types of monkeys, our testicle size is more on the smaller end of the scale)

did alpha males really own such a bigger share of the resources/pie than beta males to the extent that most females simply mated with the alpha male? does a female really improve her fitness by mating with some filthy rich alpha male who is likely to have multiple partners vs a beta male who is willing to sacrifice his life just to save her and her child's?

i feel like the advice given here is only good for attracting nutcase BPDs and low quality slvts. what high quality, very attractive, and intelligent HB would give away her phone number so easily and date some random guy who out of NO WHERE hits on her in public and speaks to her for several minutes?

***********************

going slightly off topic here...

is it possible that a guy has to act more AFC to succeed with women that are equally good looking or slightly less good looking as the guy? so she doesn't feel like you're out of her league?

honestly, i've never acted afc in my entire life to a girl, so i may be biased. my extremely protective and traditional parent told me not to chase girls in middle school, and i actually listened to her. i turned down many HBs back in the day, and for some reason, they kept coming back. i never got to experience what it's like to actually act AFC to HBs who showed interest in me. kinda regret it

 

[Poonani Maker]

What. the. Fvck...Dude, you will be miserable if you remain AFC, especially if you get married. Being a Don Juan is about being aware of the sh!t women do to try to USE you as much as it is how to USE their as5 and keep them in check.

 

[PapiChulo]

There is such thing as AFC game- it's understudied.

I look at it differently, i.e having confidence, having balls, having self-respecting,learning how to be social becoming a better man, becoming suave. It's rather a life style, not just PUA material even though it does give useful tools. In many respects its like coming in terms with yourself and seeing the bias, being real about that as well.

But if put it on a scale, the type of game taught here outweighs the AFC game.
The other thing you say about pointing the finger at the woman- the bad guy is resentment and I dont see how anything good is gonna come out of this.

Here: there are b!tches that are turned off by my manliness! There are controlling miserable HBs that want afc. That doesnt mean that they are "quality"

 

[IOS]

What the f*ck is this sh*t?

I'm really not going to waste my time dissecting your post and letting you know how ridiculously off base you are. Somebody else is free to if they want.

 

[The Mad Ghost]

What? You guys are some bigots. Hypocrits.

Why are guys acting like a large majority of women don't like men who are confident AND sensitive?

The OP has woken up, he's beginning to see the bullshyt which the industry spouts. Op has a point, look at the most dudes in relationships, walking around all AFC and seldom have DJ traits, to whose standards anyway? Yours? I believe we all have a little AFCism in us, nobody is a complete solid Don Juan, unless you're a pimp and even that isnt a good DJ quality. The Bible and this site, wakes you up, it didn't say it would feed you the water.

It's like somebody giving you a an egg and saucepan, its upto you whether you want to fry or scramble it to enjoy your meal. Tyler said in Blueprint, that even if you continue to be a AFC (chode) with women, and live a life in a daze, its not insurance that you won't get laid or be lonely.

The only reason why I won't act like a complete and utter AFC, is because I know needyness and desperation are unattractive qualities, in any relationship, with your family members, friends, co-workers. Anything. I took the red pill, I can't go back to that, however, it still doesn't change anything for the average non-sosuave guy. I think we consider AFC types, in the manner how an AFC MIGHT GET THE GIRL, we might not condone it but they aren't on here are they? Also, we'll scan how a AFC will treat a breakup and go off on those characteristics. We go off on those things the most.

The modern woman is so independent, aggressive, dominant and quicker to bust on men, she doesn't need a man to provide for her. Dominance and dominance will not win, it cannot work. AFC dudes DO get laid. Sorry to burst anyones bubble. By resisting the modern day woman's aggressiveness and dominance, it will attract. Thats polarity

WE AREN'T SOME SECRET SOCIETY, WITH MANIPULATIVE DJ BIBLE SECRETS GETTING ONE OVER THE NON-COMMUNITY GUYS.

 

[Alchemystic]

You have to define sex first before we can answer your question.

Do you mean sex with a condom?
Do you mean sex without a condom?
Do you mean sex for socio - recreational purpose?
or do you mean sex for reproductive purpose?

Do not follow bibles, they're merely guides. Create your own bible. Your own set of rules.

Reading your post, I can sense that you lack experience with women. I just have this strong feeling that you have not been around with that many women. But I can not verify that because I do not know you personally.

There are many different methods, strategies and ways.

You did not read all of pooks post, did you?
Patience does not mean being passive. I think you are confusing patience with passivity.


You are assuming that it is taking an emotional toll on the guys to approach women. Maybe some of them do but not all.
Some have become emotionally numb.
Some of these guys who been approaching hundreds or thousands more so of chicks do not experience emotional toll because they do not feel anything anymore so do not assume that it take a much greater emotional toll to approach thousands of girls. You would know that if you actually have been approaching thousands of girls but clearly somehow I have a feeling you have no experience in approaching thousands of girls.


I also have a feeling that you have given up. I have a feeling that you have accepted the AFC/Nice Guy identity or label.

From what you posted above, you have shown that you have read The sperms wars and the selfish genes. But if you have read the entire book which has a font size of 8 containing 300+ pages then you would have read a line stating "Each individual have their own mating strategies"

Yes, An AFC/Nice Guy does get to have sex but a Nice Guy gets to have sex with low quality women. An AFC/Nice Guy does get to have sex but mostly in the confines of a relationship.

What most of us aim here is to have as many sex with as many high quality women in the least amount of time and effort and for us to be able to do that we have to be alpha males.

Do you honestly think you can have sex with a girl every hour, everyday for a lifetime if you are an AFC/Nice Guy who is foolishly wasting his massive resources for a certain number of girls?


How do you know that most apes didn't mate and have monogamous relationships with beta males?
I went monkey and ape watching with Jane Goodall(I will send you a picture later)
Jane Goodall notice in her observations that apes, monkey do commit acts of unfaithfulness and cheat with omega males sometimes.

"The monogamy concept is partly a modern, social construct. Or, put another way, they are a social construct, the evolutionary purpose of which lasts for as long as Nature considers it useful".
Therefore you can not assume that apes were monogamous.

If you have read the sperm wars and the selfish gene completely then you would know that the above line came from the book!


Yes, it is true that women will only have sex if the man has heavily invested but your assuming that heavy investments need to be actually produce.
You assume that each woman have an equal definition of what it means to heavily invest.
You also assume that alcohol, drugs and hypnotic techniques are non - existent.
You assume that it is really necessary to heavily invest when your forgetting that what is important to a woman is the feeling. The feeling that you are heavily investing. This is where player tactics and games come into use by giving the woman false feelings of attachment. Attachment is a form of investment.

You also assume that an HB is a quality woman.
Basically the HB scale is use to define the physical attractiveness scale of a woman so How could you assume that an HB is a quality woman?
You assume too much. Not all Hot Babes/heartless *****ess are quality.

You sound like you have not read the entire book word by word.
If you have been reading the book religiously then you would also have taken note that the female increases her biological success at passing her genes because the alpha males have......
Re - read the book will yeah!
I do not need to re - state items from the book.
Re - stating the said items is a waste of my time.

Mystery Method got some of his ideas from the Sperm wars and Selfish genes so if you are too lazy to re - read the book then read the Mystery Method Introduction because it contain the reasons why.

I do not need to waste my time arguing.

Just go, turn - off your computer and experience. Then and only then can you really understand why.
You are clearly constantly rationalizing your AFCism.

If you want to be an AFC/Nice Guy then it is your choice but please, please save these other people from the horrors of being an AFC.
Please,if you are suffering from the Nice Guyius Maximus disease, please do not spread it to other people.

Maybe Robert Greene was actually right in saying that you have to avoid miserable Nice Guys because Miserable Nice Guys want company and and will drag you to being a miserable Nice Guy as well.

 

[Jeffst1980]

I think you're confused about the term "AFC."

By definition, an "AFC" has problems with women (that's the "frustrated" part!). And yes-- AFC's get laid, get girlfriends, get married, etc.--but they do so without ever really being "in control." This is a BIG risk, because when a woman calls the shots in a relationship, she loses attraction for her partner, and, in a certain subset of women, this will manifest itself in all sorts of terrible ways. Being an AFC shows a great weakness, and women are not attracted to weak men.

I think, instead, what you are describing as "AFC" is simply SHOWING INTEREST and PERSISTING. This can be done in an alpha manner--look up the thread on "Confident Persistence"--it will probably answer all your questions. I wrote a thread about this, too.

I agree that "nexting" girls that don't show immediate interest in you is a poor strategy, and will lead to dating a lot of crazies. Also, the "prize" mentality doesn't really work if you don't have options.

What you are discovering is the beauty of direct game--a.k.a SHOWING INTEREST IN A GIRL YOU LIKE! The reason so much PUA material is indirect is because it was written for low value males sarging in nightclubs. Women in these environments tend to reject guys like it's their job, so the model was to build attraction first without "telegraphing interest." In other situations, though--and particularly for high status guys--going indirect just makes you look like a chicken or a phony. There is NOTHING wrong with telling a woman she's your physical type right when you meet her--if you do it in a confident and fun manner. There is NO shame in blatantly hitting on girls, and owning up to that fact. And yes, you may have to chase her a little bit, but that's what courtship is (and not just for humans--nearly all female mammals require the male to persist before giving it up).

So, yes--there's nothing wrong with being "nice"--as long as you are alpha about it! If you're buying her flowers, it should be to reward her---not to supplicate in the hopes that she'll like you! That's why we don't give gifts until we've got em hooked.

Keep in mind also that most of Pook's writing is meant to inspire--at first, the biggest stumbling blocks for guys is a lack of confidence. The "prize" mentality can be a useful mental exercise, but it shouldn't be taken to extremes. Our goal is genuine confidence, not overblown egos.

 

[Zarky]

OP, AFC essentially means a guy who can't get women. It's not a means to an end, it is an end.

So to say you can get women by being a guy who can't get women... is a contradiction.

I think you need to define what you mean by AFC.

 

[handle]

If you enjoy acting AFC then go for it. If you don't, the Bible has tips for how to stop being one.

 

[thechosenone2190]

AFC: nice guy who tries to WIN the girl by buying her flowers and putting the girl on the pedestal

don't get me wrong. i will never in a million years act AFC. ive seen way too many AFCs crash and burn over and over again. i simply raise these questions because they're constantly on my mind. isn't it healthy to question authority sometimes? lol

the introduction to venusian arts by mystery also shed a lot of light for me so thanks for that suggestion alchemystic.

sorry about causing a commotion. i don't want to get on anyone's bad side on this forum. i still believe the tried and true advice you guys give is still golden. don't get me wrong. i will still need advice and help from you guys in the near future. i still have a long way to go as you guys can clearly see. im suffering from Nice Guyius Maximus disease. it's just a phase

 

[TomSwift]

What you are discovering is the beauty of direct game--a.k.a SHOWING INTEREST IN A GIRL YOU LIKE! The reason so much PUA material is indirect is because it was written for low value males sarging in nightclubs. Women in these environments tend to reject guys like it's their job, so the model was to build attraction first without "telegraphing interest." In other situations, though--and particularly for high status guys--going indirect just makes you look like a chicken or a phony. There is NOTHING wrong with telling a woman she's your physical type right when you meet her--if you do it in a confident and fun manner. There is NO shame in blatantly hitting on girls, and owning up to that fact. And yes, you may have to chase her a little bit, but that's what courtship is (and not just for humans--nearly all female mammals require the male to persist before giving it up).

So, yes--there's nothing wrong with being "nice"--as long as you are alpha about it! If you're buying her flowers, it should be to reward her---not to supplicate in the hopes that she'll like you! That's why we don't give gifts until we've got em hooked.

Keep in mind also that most of Pook's writing is meant to inspire--at first, the biggest stumbling blocks for guys is a lack of confidence. The "prize" mentality can be a useful mental exercise, but it shouldn't be taken to extremes. Our goal is genuine confidence, not overblown egos.

^^^This. Repped.

Confidence, inner game, whatever you want to call it. Take charge, be in command of all facets of your life, including your women. At some point when your level of confidence is in balance with your self-fulfillment (how content you are with your life) the so-called explicit "game" will disappear. You'll no longer have a need for it.

 

[Acq]

I used to be AFC and let me tell you, most girls tried or used me for money, attention, ATTENTION and once more ATTENTION. I was this "nice guy" with a "heart", "feelings" and big friendly eyes which could look at girls with the "wow I really like u, ur fvking amazing" kind of a look. Im disgusted by that old me and buried my old self a long time ago.

 

[zekko]

Being AFC isn't good (by definition) because you don't want to be needy, desperate, supplicating, or dependent upon a woman for happiness.

But most pickup theory is designed with the goal of having young guys pick up willing girls in bars or clubs with the sole purpose of having sex with them. Trying to live your life by these principles may not be healthy for you either, depending on what your goals are.

I agree with Alchemistic when he says "Create your own rules". Use what works for you. Apply what makes sense to you. Be your own person, not a mindless robot living by someone else's rules.

 

[teacha]

Also, the "prize" mentality doesn't really work if you don't have options.

Keep in mind also that most of Pook's writing is meant to inspire--at first, the biggest stumbling blocks for guys is a lack of confidence. The "prize" mentality can be a useful mental exercise, but it shouldn't be taken to extremes. Our goal is genuine confidence, not overblown egos.

I don't think you actually understand what Pook meant by the term prize mentality, it's not merely a mental exercise but something far much greater. its not about seeing yourself as a great catch only but ACTUALLY becoming that great catch otherwise you will only be living in a bubble of fantasy. Being the prize is actually more about self-improvement, focusing on your goals, interests and dreams rather than getting women. It's about making yourself the priority and not women. Be the prize, be the best you can be in life.

The high standards you apply to your desires must be applied to yourself.

....so yeah, it should be taken to extremes.

 

[Darth]

The problem here is that too many people equate "AFC" with "love". Or "emoting". Or "acting like a human being."

So in their quest for DJdom, they lose their soul.

 

[perseverance]

I've only read the book of Pook from the DJ Bible and that was all I needed. Pooks talks endlessly about improving yourself for you, achieving greatness in life for you and that a woman should be an addition to your life, not the main event.

I also think the whole "be the prize" makes sense. Think about it, how many men put a woman on a pedestal? How many men pander endlessly to a woman? How many men determine their own self worth through the number of notches on their bed post? Pook teaches you to appreciate yourself, to value yourself. When a man goes on a date, why should the date be all about the woman? What she wants to do, where she wants to go?

I don't think it's out of line to say to yourself and believe the following: "I'm a handsome male, I'm single, I'm successful in my field and I have got a good personality, so why should I impress women? Shouldn't women be trying to impress me?" I also don't think it is unacceptable to call the shots either.

My aim is not to bed 100 women, it's not to score the best looking woman in the room. It's not even to become a Don Juan. My aim is to become comfortable with who I am, confident in what I am and to find women who will show me new experiences, women who will be a welcome addition to my life. And you can do all of this, not by being an AFC, a Jerk or a Don Juan, but becoming truly happy and comfortable with yourself and your life.

 

[teacha]

My aim is not to bed 100 women, it's not to score the best looking woman in the room. It's not even to become a Don Juan. My aim is to become comfortable with who I am, confident in what I am and to find women who will show me new experiences, women who will be a welcome addition to my life. And you can do all of this, not by being an AFC, a Jerk or a Don Juan, but becoming truly happy and comfortable with yourself and your life.

and this is the part most people here do not understand: YOU DEFINE YOUR OWN LIFE.

stop letting some random internet poster tell you how to live your life.

 

[UniKKatiL]

I don't think you understand. See, girls don't know what they want. It's not their fault when they reject AFC's. They say they want a nice guy and that's why they date AFC's hoping to find love (btw, you need different approach to all kind of girls, a girl that knows she is hot, wont help being AFC, coz she has bunch of AFC after her) But the AFC doesn't stimulate a girls emotions, since women are emotional creatures, all he does is do the same ****, desperately telling her she is the only one and is boring. the AFC guys that are together with the girl they want are chumps, because the girl controls him.. She isn't really in love with him, even though she can say it, while he is in love with her and puts her on a pedestal. She flirts with other guys And the relationship doesn't really last long because she realizes that she isn't in love with him, even though he was really nice to her (that's the problem). And it's not the girls fault. A girl doesn't fall in love with you by being AFC.. but they don't know that.. A girl falls in love when you stimulate her emotions... If women fell in love by guys being AFC, then anyone could get any girl..... *OMG, you bought me roses, I love you so much* then someone else can go and buy her a car? would she love him even more? lol... money can't buy love man... You need a great personality, and a nice smile. That's emotional stimulation right there, smiling and being happy about yourself, respecting yourself.. and not putting others first, that's when people fall in love with you.. Not when you worship others.

The whole point of DJ, I think, is about respecting yourself and being happy about yourself... You don't love yourself when you're AFC, you don't respect yourself when you're AFC... It's not about dating girls, it's about changing yourself and your life for the better. When you are happy about yourself, respect yourself and you're confident, the women will come after... So basically it's not about women, it's a way of life, the way you live your life... Most AFC's are emotional losers who ain't happy about themselves, who have no confidence and have others controlling them, they will never succeed in life... You want to be free? You want to live your life your way? How can you be free when you have others telling you what to do? How can you be free when you have women controlling you? How can you be free when you sit around day dreaming about a girl you like when it's meant to be the opposite? You'll never be free. You're free when you control your own life, and your emotions, not when others control you and your emotions.

It's about loving yourself.. when you love yourself people will love you, AFC's don't love themselves... they don't respect themselves. It's sad, but true. No one will love you, no one will respect you, unless you love and respect yourself. Remember that. Some people are born that way, and some need to learn it the hard way.

It's like being addicted to smoking, alcohol and drugs... or junk food.. They control you, and your life, so you're not free. And you don't love and respect yourself when you do them.. the same applies to people and women in general... A women controls you because your addicted to her, she makes you feel good.. just like drugs etc.. that's the problem, it should be the opposite, you should be everyone's drug.. But you're not free when you need others to make you feel good.. You're free when you feel good about yourself.. You're free when you can live in the wild, with no electricity or other technology, totally alone and still be happy... because you love and respect yourself and you don't need anyone, that's when you're truly free. And people will miss you, because you're a great guy, you're their drug, their addicted to you.

Addiction is a mental weakness. When you don't need women, drugs, alcohol or anything else, That's when you are free.

Now it's up to you, do you want people to control your life and emotions or do you want to be free?

 

[Darth]

The thing is, you could say and do the exact same things as an "AFC" and be successful.

Seriously.

You could buy a girl flowers, take her out to dinner, say, "You're the only one for me, baby."....and whatever other corny stuff you want, as it strikes you.

But it's the ATTITUDE that makes the difference.

If you do it from a position of power, from a position that if she gave you crap, you could walk away right then, then you can get away with saying anything.

In my opinion it's like bargaining for a car. You could say, "Wow, this is a pretty nice car," and be a chump, or you could say the same thing and be 100% willing to walk away if the guy doesn't come down to your price.

Pook was right...it's not about a personality change, it's not about being a jerk...it's about reclaiming manhood and self-respect.

 

[christz]

Has SS really turned into a troll fest? If some dude wants to act like a chick then let him. Why don't you all collectively debate about that?