Starting to disagree more and more with PUA tactics

[Chronocidal]

Perhaps some of it was a reaction to the culture of its time, and yet other parts of it merely tools for men who've been socially beaten down pretty badly by their tribe.

"Negs" might've been a measure against a culture wherein pedestalizing was the norm.
"Social drills" and "eye contact practice" might've been a measure for men who otherwise wouldn't have access to women outside his tribe, and said tribe likely wasn't treating him very well as it stood.

 

[biggoal]

I have a friend who's 6'7", and when we were younger he would always get approached. In fact, when we got older he was a little lost when it came to women because he was used to being approached. Once that dried up, he wasn't sure what to do.

Some guys who are very tall will look awkward, but that's down to the individual. Some guys will just look awkward.

I think the key is having muscle. If you're 6-6 and have pencil legs and arms then yea you will look awkward and super skinny like Slender Man character.

 

[AttackFormation]

I do go out with one but he is scared to approach so I have to approach for him and then he takes the girl(s), it's like something out of Entourage lol. It's ok though, I do well enough for myself I just can't use online dating at all.

MrWood is laying the pipe down on girls online and he has described himself as somewhat unattractive IIRC. And he's doing it in Helsingfors, that's a cruise ride away from me that I could walk down to the harbor and take right now.

On the other hand you said I was an 8 and you're a 7 IIRC, but yet compared to MrWood online dating doesn't work for us at all. Personally, I couldn't even run any game per se as I would get almost zero matches whatsoever. With very rare exceptions that always turned out to be mirages, I had to scrape so far into the bottom of the barrel just to get any matches in the first place, before talking or trying to meet, that I decided it wasn't worth my dignity and just got rid of it all. Yet MrWood is macking it up in there.

What the fvck?

 

[zekko]

Perhaps some of it was a reaction to the culture of its time, and yet other parts of it merely tools for men who've been socially beaten down pretty badly by their tribe.

Well, I mean it was worth a try at the time, right? Until proven otherwise.

A lot of it was just a reaction to the internet. Guys (and nerds especially) could get together anonymously and talk about it, and theorize. Picking up girls was nothing new. Even as a young lad I had heard of the concept of just asking a bunch of girls until one said yes (numbers theory). Which is all pickup amounts to, really, once you strip away all the frills.

 

[biggoal]

MrWood is laying the pipe down on girls online and he has described himself as somewhat unattractive IIRC. And he's doing it in Helsingfors, that's a cruise ride away from me that I could walk down to the harbor and take right now.

On the other hand you said I was an 8 and you're a 7 IIRC, but yet compared to MrWood online dating doesn't work for us at all. Personally, I couldn't even run any game per se as I would get almost zero matches whatsoever at all. With very rare exceptions that always amounted to nothing, I had to scrape so far into the bottom of the barrel just to get any matches in the first place, before any talking or meeting, that I decided it wasn't worth my dignity and just got rid of it all. Yet MrWood is macking it up in there.

What the fvck?

Yea. Hes also way older than most of us and has a disability yet does a lot better than everyone on here.

Again complimenting him not bashing him. A 50 year old guy with disability visible gets all these girls and us guys in our 30s struggle.

 

[illstep]

Yea. Hes also way older than most of us and has a disability yet does a lot better than everyone on here.

Again complimenting him not bashing him. A 50 year old guy with disability visible gets all these girls and us guys in our 30s struggle.

Dude. We all are just names on a forum. All may not be as it seems!

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Bro come on now, like yeah what you’re saying makes sense and everything, get your **** together and all that. But we’ve had homeless dudes on here who still had plates. ****ing homeless dudes. No, don’t go out spam approaching like a retard, but if you don’t have anything, you still can slide in with some chicks. That cliché about the pool boy screwing some millionaire’s trophy wife? That **** exists. Women will still **** around with lower quality men, it just depends on who you are, how you are with them, and the vibe you give off. If you can make that ***** tingle, that’s all that really matters. That’s where game really does come in. You can’t be a simpering ***** when it comes to women, you gotta be a ****ing man.

 

[SoSuave666]

Ok so I haven’t read thru a bunch of the replies here someone may have said what I’m about to say. Keep in mind I never have been a PUA and never got into the cold approach thing. But I think after looking at the PUA body of work it was a great thing.

What those men did is basically a huge social experiment. They didn’t theorize, they didn’t postulate, they actually went out and documented experiments. They came up with some great stuff that naturals already knew. It was essentially a study of mimicking a subset of alpha traits to get you laid in the short term.

The main problem is it was never a long term solution. Sure, fake it til you make it and adopt a short term alpha persona to get laid quickly. Great. But most men still fall back into the pattern of idealistic love. They want that romance and project their own insecurities on their women as problems to be solved. Pick up didn’t solve the mindset of blue pill men. It just gave them a short term blue print to get secks. Eventually the frame of the man would crumble and he would be right back at step 1.

I’ve got a lot of respect for rollo. Back when I had enough time to be a mod he was around once in a blue moon. His whole Schtick is adjusting a man’s mindset. Making those conscious efforts to “game” women or to “pick up” women into subconscious framework. You don’t need to trick anyone into believing you have abundance because you actually HAVE abundance. You don’t revert to beta because you aren’t beta anymore.

When you get the right mindset you can do anything you want to with women. You can tel them how much you love them the first time you meet them, then wink at them and turn your back to order a drink. She will pine. A girl can tell you she doesn’t love you anymore and you can say “ok baby I will always love you there’s always a spot for you in my life and come back any time” and she’d be like “wtf” and her juices flow. You can directly contradict any advice on this forum when you come from the right mindset...because the right mindset is unbreakable. That’s where this forum should be headed: mindset. Not a few quick tips to get a woman in bed.

 

[zinc4]

Agreed.

Ok so I haven’t read thru a bunch of the replies here someone may have said what I’m about to say. Keep in mind I never have been a PUA and never got into the cold approach thing. But I think after looking at the PUA body of work it was a great thing.

What those men did is basically a huge social experiment. They didn’t theorize, they didn’t postulate, they actually went out and documented experiments. They came up with some great stuff that naturals already knew. It was essentially a study of mimicking a subset of alpha traits to get you laid in the short term.

The main problem is it was never a long term solution. Sure, fake it til you make it and adopt a short term alpha persona to get laid quickly. Great. But most men still fall back into the pattern of idealistic love. They want that romance and project their own insecurities on their women as problems to be solved. Pick up didn’t solve the mindset of blue pill men. It just gave them a short term blue print to get secks. Eventually the frame of the man would crumble and he would be right back at step 1.

I’ve got a lot of respect for rollo. Back when I had enough time to be a mod he was around once in a blue moon. His whole Schtick is adjusting a man’s mindset. Making those conscious efforts to “game” women or to “pick up” women into subconscious framework. You don’t need to trick anyone into believing you have abundance because you actually HAVE abundance. You don’t revert to beta because you aren’t beta anymore.

When you get the right mindset you can do anything you want to with women. You can tel them how much you love them the first time you meet them, then wink at them and turn your back to order a drink. She will pine. A girl can tell you she doesn’t love you anymore and you can say “ok baby I will always love you there’s always a spot for you in my life and come back any time” and she’d be like “wtf” and her juices flow. You can directly contradict any advice on this forum when you come from the right mindset...because the right mindset is unbreakable. That’s where this forum should be headed: mindset. Not a few quick tips to get a woman in bed.

Agreed, mindset is everything.

 

[corrector]

And eventually he went full nutbar, found 'god', and closed down the 'game' part of the forum

I've google searched this and it says he's a committed Christian. This shows that websites that encourage game is stupid because it leads people into sin and eventually to an eternity in hell with fire and brimstone and hideous evils spirits tormenting you for ever and ever away from God without hope. Nah, it's better to get right with God and listen to Roosh V. He found God, and you should too rather than making fun of him otherwise the devil will have the last laugh with your soul if you don't get right with God like he did.

 

[illstep]

They came up with some great stuff that naturals already knew. It was essentially a study of mimicking a subset of alpha traits to get you laid in the short term.

Sure, fake it til you make it and adopt a short term alpha persona to get laid quickly. Great.

It just gave them a short term blue print to get secks

I think the issue is that even THAT isn't actually possibly through just 'game' based on the many replies. People seem to be out there approaching + applying this 'game' and getting rejected until they stumble upon a strong 'yes girl'. And many here seem to suggest that it isn't what is was cracked up to be

Yeah, in the early days of PUA there was a lot of blind faith in the concept. And people who questioned it tended to get shouted down. They used to delete posts here if someone said that looks mattered. Over time I think people saw that PUA really couldn't deliver on what it promised

Or maybe it once did 'work' before things like insta and online dating etc changed the landscape and what/how women decide they want?

If game was able to deliver even just short term success (getting guys laid with much hotter, younger girls through 'game') then I think all of the threads (and their replies) we see here everyday wouldn't look the same lol

So if we agree there's no debate that PUA life isn't a great long term solution and we're strictly talking about getting laid a tonne with hhot girls with only game, it leaves a few possibilities

1/it works great now just like it supposedly did back in 2005. It's like magic and 'game' forces girls to be attracted to you. The reason pepole don't seem to be having success nowadays is that they're all doing it wrong for whatever reason

2/It DID used to work like magic, but not anymore. Maybe due to insta and tinder and girls getting so much validation that they know they can do better, and the young ones value looks more than ever etc?

3/It never used to work. We were being lied too. It's always been numbers game. Back then before youtube we had less evideence to the contrary so we all beleived what we were told by mystery etc

4/something else

 

[zekko]

Or maybe it once did 'work' before things like insta and online dating etc changed the landscape and what/how women decide they want?

PUA is like everything else. There's some good information in there, along with some bad. But people who were wanting to sell it pumped it up to ridiculous extremes to the point where was basically a scam ("Learn this ONE secret and you will be IRRESISTIBLE to every woman you meet").

Obviously there's no magic pill. But the funny thing is PUA is practically foolproof. Because it basically tells you to approach and approach and if any girl rejects you, then that's a victory so keep on going. Don't put your energy into women who resist you, just keep on plowing until you find one who says yes. It doesn't work until it does. How could that possibly fail? Then they tell you even the masters only get the number 10% of the time, and 10% of those actually amount to a meetup, and 10% of those result in a lay, so they lower the expectations about as far as they can go.

I think some of the PUA strategies still work (text game advice is useful)

I remember people saying texting was for pvssies, real men use the phone. Then it became only text to set up dates. Then some began to accept that text could be used to build attraction, but many still reject the idea.

 

[AttackFormation]

I remember people saying texting was for pvssies, real men use the phone. Then it became only text to set up dates. Then some began to accept that text could be used to build attraction, but many still reject the idea.

The thing with texting is it's dependent on how attached they are to you in the first place from your LMS and in person emotional impact (like getting her adrenaline flowing or having sex). If they're attached, you can do whatever. If not, their mood will shift from one day to the next regardless of your texting and they'll discard you for the other 50+ guys who are also messaging her this week on pof, instagram, snapchat, tinder, facebook, tiktok, hinge and bumble, the guys from work/school/events/bars&clubs/etcetra who are trying to text her, and her already existing stable of exes, Chads, and interregional high value men who fvck her when they come to her area.

The girl who fvcked me over the most was a girl I thought I had a lot of texting rapport with.

 

[biggoal]

At the market we have a guy, mid 20s. Dude is only like 5 foot 5, very skinny and petite but he's a super pickup artist and is able to get all sorts of numbers and dates.

 

[Glassguy]

PUA Tactics = playing a part in order to trick someone or to fool them long enough to get what you want. Eventually they figure you out and its all over.

Putting in the work of self improvement to actually be a better person in all areas of life seems much more satisfying than figuring out new ways to trick women.

 

[nicksaiz65]

PUA is like everything else. There's some good information in there, along with some bad. But people who were wanting to sell it pumped it up to ridiculous extremes to the point where was basically a scam ("Learn this ONE secret and you will be IRRESISTIBLE to every woman you meet").

Obviously there's no magic pill. But the funny thing is PUA is practically foolproof. Because it basically tells you to approach and approach and if any girl rejects you, then that's a victory so keep on going. Don't put your energy into women who resist you, just keep on plowing until you find one who says yes. It doesn't work until it does. How could that possibly fail? Then they tell you even the masters only get the number 10% of the time, and 10% of those actually amount to a meetup, and 10% of those result in a lay, so they lower the expectations about as far as they can go.


I remember people saying texting was for pvssies, real men use the phone. Then it became only text to set up dates. Then some began to accept that text could be used to build attraction, but many still reject the idea.

Yeah. It is basically fool proof when you think about it haha.

Tbh I'd say a 10% close rate is pretty good though, would you agree? They say newbies will sleep with 1/3 girls they go on a date with. I think that's pretty good odds too

 

[nicksaiz65]

PUA is like everything else. There's some good information in there, along with some bad. But people who were wanting to sell it pumped it up to ridiculous extremes to the point where was basically a scam ("Learn this ONE secret and you will be IRRESISTIBLE to every woman you meet").

Obviously there's no magic pill. But the funny thing is PUA is practically foolproof. Because it basically tells you to approach and approach and if any girl rejects you, then that's a victory so keep on going. Don't put your energy into women who resist you, just keep on plowing until you find one who says yes. It doesn't work until it does. How could that possibly fail? Then they tell you even the masters only get the number 10% of the time, and 10% of those actually amount to a meetup, and 10% of those result in a lay, so they lower the expectations about as far as they can go.


I remember people saying texting was for pvssies, real men use the phone. Then it became only text to set up dates. Then some began to accept that text could be used to build attraction, but many still reject the idea.

Also I meant to say this earlier. But Game is more holistic than people think a lot of the time imo. A lot of Game is just doing the Self Improvement, and playing the Numbers until you find a girl who likes you. A "strong yes" girl if you will

 

[OldSlowPoke]

Looks triumph over our BS....just go out to a nightclub/disco with a very tall good looking guy if you don't believe it. He will get approached with all kinds of offers while you have to work for yours. I'm 6'2 by the way. I mean 6'6 and above plus good looking. The difference is mind boggling.

By looks what do you mean? Height, face and frame? Which order? I know I lack height so it kills me at the club, never been approached, I am not ugly but very unattractive to women.

What's changed? Is it that people were more easily fooled into believing in magic back then, pre youtube days? Now we have more evidence to the contrary?

Is it that it DID used to work as advertised, but what with stuff like tinder and insta and social media, the landscape has changed to the point where the lines and techniques are just no match for a handsome face or whatever?

Something else??

I find the change interesting.

When I first joined rooshV - people got banned by him for suggesting that looks mattered. (reason: 'game denialism')
A few years later, he made a post that included the quote ''Game is just something to help you get laid with girls who like the way you look''. Quite the turn around, no? Then people WEREN'T getting banned for suggesting game isn't magic
Then people spoke less less about 'game' and more about, what was essentially 'sex tourism' lol. (travelling to poor countries as a wealthy white man and banging all the locals/low hanging fruit)
And eventually he went full nutbar, found 'god', and closed down the 'game' part of the forum

Even this forum has changed a lot in it's belief about 'game'. Take teh opening post for one lol

There's other examples, too - And I don't evne disagree. I just find it interesting how it's all changed, and i'm super curious as to why (obviously there are still 'coaches' out there who claim to get anyone laid with anyone they want with their 'game')

Tinder was a breaking point. https://www.sciencealert.com/the-percentage-of-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-a-record-high Social media cheapens the human experience so even though chads may hit on girls online they may dismiss them, also because of distance. It was probably a numbers game, ugly guys weren't doing very well. Mystery was a tall guy and most of the guys weren't ugly. I think Tyler was about average or under but most guys who did well were just relying on their looks and denying it even then to sell BS.

The story of roosh is as old as time. Buddha was a chad that slayed in the palace, then he got tired of it and became religious. The rise of the incels, where they went from cope to rope, PUAhate which exposed the lies and many other changes turned PUA from a charlatan's game to ugly men with a more cynical scientific approach to attraction.