Starting a TRT regimen

[BackInTheGame78]

Advice from a long time TRT participant...

Use 25G needles and not 23G...you will thank me later, almost don't even feel it. You DEFINITELY feel the 23G...especially if you are doing SubQ

 

[Divorced w 3]

For the love of God do not take estrogen suppressants whatever you do. If you want to know what depression feels like it’ll hit you like a brick

 

[BackInTheGame78]

For the love of God do not take estrogen suppressants whatever you do. If you want to know what depression feels like it’ll hit you like a brick

All depends on how much you aromatize.

If you are a high aromatizer and your E gets too high it causes high blood pressure and puts you at risk for developing blood clots among other nasty symptoms like gyno.

It's something that needs to be monitored for sure. Most people won't need it, but the ones who do, need to use it to keep their levels in check.

Estradiol levels between 25-30 are typically a good baseline.

Funnily enough your body NEEDS estrogen because it actually repairs the testosterone receptors. Without enough of it, the receptors degrade which doesn't allow Testosterone to attach as well to it, limiting its effectiveness.

 

[Gamisch]

If trt has only benefits ( like eating vegetables and fruit for example) why wouldn't the entire world use it?

Just a question, not criticizing anyone..I am just curious.

Personally I am a believer of using strictly natural resources . But perhaps that makes me the idiot in this case. The one whose missing out on something great..

 

[BackInTheGame78]

If trt has only benefits ( like eating vegetables and fruit for example) why wouldn't the entire world use it?

Just a question, not criticizing anyone..I am just curious.

Personally I am a believer of using strictly natural resources . But perhaps that makes me the idiot in this case. The one whose missing out on something great..

It's only needed if your body is deficient in producing it on its own. Before I started I got tested at 150 which is crazy low.

Now I am around 600-700 most tests with high free T levels.

So the answer would be, not everyone needs it. Just like not everyone needs to use a CPAP machine, but for the people who have sleep apnea it is a Godsend.

 

[Divorced w 3]

All depends on how much you aromatize.

If you are a high aromatizer and your E gets too high it causes high blood pressure and puts you at risk for developing blood clots among other nasty symptoms like gyno.

It's something that needs to be monitored for sure. Most people won't need it, but the ones who do, need to use it to keep their levels in check.

Estradiol levels between 25-30 are typically a good baseline.

Funnily enough your body NEEDS estrogen because it actually repairs the testosterone receptors. Without enough of it, the receptors degrade which doesn't allow Testosterone to attach as well to it, limiting its effectiveness.

To be honest I took TRT solely as a blast last year and I did the Arimidex and I had the above, when I cleared my body out and regained my natural state I started running 1g daily of Tongkat and I haven’t looked back it’s perfect for what I need.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To be honest I took TRT solely as a blast last year and I did the Arimidex and I had the above, when I cleared my body out and regained my natural state I started running 1g daily of Tongkat and I haven’t looked back it’s perfect for what I need.

Arimidex can crash your E if you aren't careful. It's why I prefer Aromasim, it doesn't do that.

I take TongKat also, but that wouldn't be enough as even if it doubled my T levels from where I was at I would still only be around 300.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

If trt has only benefits ( like eating vegetables and fruit for example) why wouldn't the entire world use it?

Just a question, not criticizing anyone..I am just curious.

Personally I am a believer of using strictly natural resources . But perhaps that makes me the idiot in this case. The one whose missing out on something great..

Cause of the fear mongering that testosterone is used by steroid user and the death of those people has caused panic, cause its very expensive compared to female health, most doctors are old farts who don't know $hit about it, medical insurance basically doesn't cover $hit for it, and society doesn't want men to be at their full potential.

Imagine men with Test at their optimal levels, having discipline to hit the gym, getting jacked, ot taking $hit from everyone, not simping for women, telling the politicians who don't do $hit to fvck off. Imagine a society where 80% of men are strong and disciplined, what other society will stand a chance?

That's why, cause they want me to be weak, docile and to not think for themselves.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If trt has only benefits ( like eating vegetables and fruit for example) why wouldn't the entire world use it?

Just a question, not criticizing anyone..I am just curious.

Personally I am a believer of using strictly natural resources . But perhaps that makes me the idiot in this case. The one whose missing out on something great..

TRT has a ton of follow on effects that likely won’t be productive including, ironically, libido loss if the estrogen isn’t tamed as well as cardiovascular damage, hair loss and emotional imbalances. It was fun until it wasn’t fun. Realizing I had my numbers where I needed I tapered off, but other men obviously benefit and that is totally understandable

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Not to mention the following effects which can and do occur to most longtime users, not all, the majority:
(More so for those who use steroids for gainz than to keep their levels healthy)

1. Increased risk of heart disease - Left heart hypertrophy due to polycythemia and subsequent atrial fibrillation and potential congestive heart failure.
2. Liver damage
3. High blood pressure
4. Mood swings and aggression
5. Hormonal imbalance
6. Sterility and infertility
7. Acne and skin problems
8. Organomegaly - why many guys look like great apes with large abdomens
9. Increased risk of tendon injuries
10. Increases in neck girth which massively affects your odds in favor of obstructive sleep apnea, leading to atrial fibrillation, potential clotting, DVT, stroke, myocardial infarction, etc.
11. Thinning of the epidermis which gives you that grainy “I use peds” look.
12. Plate face and other weird growth like your hands, nose, ears, feet if you’re on GH too.
13. As you age you’re more susceptible to abdominal hernias too.

There are more, and while you’re in your 30’s or so and you’re on cycle you feel amazing but you’ll end up paying the piper sooner or later unless you’re very lucky.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Not to mention the following effects which can and do occur to most longtime users, not all, the majority:
(More so for those who use steroids for gainz than to keep their levels healthy)

1. Increased risk of heart disease - Left heart hypertrophy due to polycythemia and subsequent atrial fibrillation and potential congestive heart failure.
2. Liver damage
3. High blood pressure
4. Mood swings and aggression
5. Hormonal imbalance
6. Sterility and infertility
7. Acne and skin problems
8. Organomegaly - why many guys look like great apes with large abdomens
9. Increased risk of tendon injuries
10. Increases in neck girth which massively affects your odds in favor of obstructive sleep apnea, leading to atrial fibrillation, potential clotting, DVT, stroke, myocardial infarction, etc.
11. Thinning of the epidermis which gives you that grainy “I use peds” look.
12. Plate face and other weird growth like your hands, nose, ears, feet if you’re on GH too.
13. As you age you’re more susceptible to abdominal hernias too.

There are more, and while you’re in your 30’s or so and you’re on cycle you feel amazing but you’ll end up paying the piper sooner or later unless you’re very lucky.

Also your balls shrink unless you shoot HCG, which I was doing but the urologist told me my nuts were getting smaller and that’s when I stopped. Small nuts is just a boundary for me.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Also your balls shrink unless you shoot HCG, which I was doing but the urologist told me my nuts were getting smaller and that’s when I stopped. Small nuts is just a boundary for me.

Research Clomid, but small nuts make your junk look bigger! haha

 

[sangheilios]

Crazy AF that some of these "TRT" dosages you guys are talking about are actually very mild steroid cycles lol.

I personally believe TRT has many benefits for men as they get older but I also believe that many men are far too readily eager to jump onto this train. I overheard a conversation a guy from the gym was having about TRT and that when he hits 40 he will go on lol, like it was some milestone that he had hit. Many are overlooking the fact that once you go on TRT you will literally be using this for the rest of your life. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, but I would think very carefully before completely shutting down my own hormone production and needing to be a lifelong drug user.

@Divorced w 3 brings up a very valid point about estrogen, don't fool around with your hormones like that.

@BackInTheGame78 also brings up a very valid point about red blood cell count and having to donate blood. When your hematocrit levels go above 50% it puts you at risk for strokes, etc. Definitely something to keep in mind and should be monitored for sure.

This stuff is a huge reason why I would try to delay ever going on TRT. The best you can do is sleep well, eat a very good diet, exercise and stay at a healthy bodyfat level. However, you should not get too lean or exercise too much, as this is actually detrimental to your hormonal health. There's a reason why female endurance athletes, like triathletes or something along those lines, very often stop having periods when they are training for their events.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

Not to mention the following effects which can and do occur to most longtime users, not all, the majority:
(More so for those who use steroids for gainz than to keep their levels healthy)

1. Increased risk of heart disease - Left heart hypertrophy due to polycythemia and subsequent atrial fibrillation and potential congestive heart failure.
2. Liver damage
3. High blood pressure
4. Mood swings and aggression
5. Hormonal imbalance
6. Sterility and infertility
7. Acne and skin problems
8. Organomegaly - why many guys look like great apes with large abdomens
9. Increased risk of tendon injuries
10. Increases in neck girth which massively affects your odds in favor of obstructive sleep apnea, leading to atrial fibrillation, potential clotting, DVT, stroke, myocardial infarction, etc.
11. Thinning of the epidermis which gives you that grainy “I use peds” look.
12. Plate face and other weird growth like your hands, nose, ears, feet if you’re on GH too.
13. As you age you’re more susceptible to abdominal hernias too.

There are more, and while you’re in your 30’s or so and you’re on cycle you feel amazing but you’ll end up paying the piper sooner or later unless you’re very lucky.

STFU nobody cares about side effects, we just care about getting huge. Now go away party pooper.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Crazy AF that some of these "TRT" dosages you guys are talking about are actually very mild steroid cycles lol.

I personally believe TRT has many benefits for men as they get older but I also believe that many men are far too readily eager to jump onto this train. I overheard a conversation a guy from the gym was having about TRT and that when he hits 40 he will go on lol, like it was some milestone that he had hit. Many are overlooking the fact that once you go on TRT you will literally be using this for the rest of your life. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, but I would think very carefully before completely shutting down my own hormone production and needing to be a lifelong drug user.

@Divorced w 3 brings up a very valid point about estrogen, don't fool around with your hormones like that.

@BackInTheGame78 also brings up a very valid point about red blood cell count and having to donate blood. When your hematocrit levels go above 50% it puts you at risk for strokes, etc. Definitely something to keep in mind and should be monitored for sure.

This stuff is a huge reason why I would try to delay ever going on TRT. The best you can do is sleep well, eat a very good diet, exercise and stay at a healthy bodyfat level. However, you should not get too lean or exercise too much, as this is actually detrimental to your hormonal health. There's a reason why female endurance athletes, like triathletes or something along those lines, very often stop having periods when they are training for their events.

Going into TRT I had 1,000 T, and they’re like are you taking gear now and I am like no, they’re like okay well it’s for the emotionally therapeutic component and they sent me a year of Test Cyp and I just started loading it up. It’s a joke. You can order this **** on websites you zoom with a nurse and then boom you get gear.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Sounds risky.

 

[Gamisch]

Damn...this went from a TRT commercial to a "dont do TRT kids" campaign.

Imma just stay natty I geuss...(although its VERY tempting to try "something " as I already spend so much time working out)

Sounds risky.

To say the least....

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I gotta challenge you on this bro.

I agree, you do need estrogen, but the rest of this androgen receptor downregulation stuff is just not accurate.


Again, not accurate. An AI will crash your estrogen if too much is used.
Nolvadex or Raloxifene will not crash your estrogen as they are SERMs.

Actually we are both partially correct...

It doesn't directly "repair" the receptors but it is necessary for proper expression and functioning of the androgen receptors:

"So while estrogen does not directly "repair" androgen receptors, it plays an important role in regulating AR expression and function, especially through its interactions with testosterone and the aromatase enzyme. Maintaining proper estrogen levels appears necessary for optimal androgen receptor activity in males."


Estrogen is also the "hormonal marker" for the body for sex hormones, so the body actually uses Estrogen levels as a way of determining how much Testosterone is in the body. Which would be great if there were not so many Xenoestrogens around in the environment that mimic estrogen in the body making it think we have circulating estrogen levels that are much higher than normal. Which only typically would happen when Testosterone is being overproduced and aromatized into Estradiol. Hence why male Testosterone levels have been dropping at a steady 1% per year pace since the introduction of plastics and pesticides in the 1950s and 1960s. The body literally thinks it's overproducing Testosterone since there is too much estrogen.

Similar to how leucine is the amino acid marker for determining protein levels in the body.

In regards to Aromasin, you are incorrect. There were studies done on that showing that even very high doses given everyday kept Estradiol in the "low normal" range and the difference between someone being given 25mg versus 50mg was only how quickly it reduced the Estradiol to that level, but it would not go past there. This is in part to it not being as effective in men as it is in women since the Testes produce estradiol locally.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-pdf/88/12/5951/9063909/jcem5951.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjn5tXF_pGGAxWxjIkEHV0ZCmoQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3QmIHOfL4_jHMgs340tvBl

 

[sangheilios]

Going into TRT I had 1,000 T, and they’re like are you taking gear now and I am like no, they’re like okay well it’s for the emotionally therapeutic component and they sent me a year of Test Cyp and I just started loading it up. It’s a joke. You can order this **** on websites you zoom with a nurse and then boom you get gear.

Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. So you had never been on TRT and tested at 1,000 but then they tried to peddle it to you despite these numbers? I'm confused because you mentioned they sent you a year's supply and you start loading up, do you mean you started taking it?

Yeah, I'm not too surprised to see how easily accessible this is now, I'm assuming you are in America. I do know in places like Mexico and other 2nd world countries, like Thailand or something along those lines, you can literally just walk into a pharmacy and get full blown steroid cycles lol.

My personal opinion, I think a lot of the hype about TRT is severely overblown as a means for men's health clinics to make easy sales. I also believe that a lot of the TRT that men go on probably take them well above what they would have been naturally during their 20s and 30s. Maybe in their prime they were at 600 and now on TRT they are at 1,000, both are still within a normal/natural range for humans but they are well past what they would have ever been at without gear. I also think some men are literally on very mild steroid cycles that go beyond this, where you see guys on 200mg/per week for instance. Several months ago there was a middle aged guy at the gym talking about TRT and he was on this amount, you could definitely see the results lol.

There's nothing wrong with taking this stuff, I just believe many men are way too eager to jump on this wagon. The testosterone levels we see that are decreasing are mostly a result of obesity, tons of data that shows being of a normal/healthy weight will show a massive difference. With this in mind, imagine being 45 years old and working 40-50 hours per week in a stressful job and not getting proper sleep and eating poorly, all of these things often correlate with one another. I totally get why a guy would want to hope on the sauce if it meant he could feel better, lose a bit of fat and build up some muscle tone.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. So you had never been on TRT and tested at 1,000 but then they tried to peddle it to you despite these numbers? I'm confused because you mentioned they sent you a year's supply and you start loading up, do you mean you started taking it?

Yeah, I'm not too surprised to see how easily accessible this is now, I'm assuming you are in America. I do know in places like Mexico and other 2nd world countries, like Thailand or something along those lines, you can literally just walk into a pharmacy and get full blown steroid cycles lol.

My personal opinion, I think a lot of the hype about TRT is severely overblown as a means for men's health clinics to make easy sales. I also believe that a lot of the TRT that men go on probably take them well above what they would have been naturally during their 20s and 30s. Maybe in their prime they were at 600 and now on TRT they are at 1,000, both are still within a normal/natural range for humans but they are well past what they would have ever been at without gear. I also think some men are literally on very mild steroid cycles that go beyond this, where you see guys on 200mg/per week for instance. Several months ago there was a middle aged guy at the gym talking about TRT and he was on this amount, you could definitely see the results lol.

There's nothing wrong with taking this stuff, I just believe many men are way too eager to jump on this wagon. The testosterone levels we see that are decreasing are mostly a result of obesity, tons of data that shows being of a normal/healthy weight will show a massive difference. With this in mind, imagine being 45 years old and working 40-50 hours per week in a stressful job and not getting proper sleep and eating poorly, all of these things often correlate with one another. I totally get why a guy would want to hope on the sauce if it meant he could feel better, lose a bit of fat and build up some muscle tone.

Correct. I am a 40 year old man with the test levels of a top range 24 year old man and they gave me gear.