Society cant have it both ways folks...

[BaronOfHair]

Still, one of their central claims is that society is falling apart because of a moral decline, that we’ve lost our sense of right and wrong, and that men have lost their roles as strong leaders and protectors

Refreshing to learn that when Bible humpers aren't embezzling from their own congregations and not exactly practicing the family values they espouse on Sunday https://www.ebsco.com/research-star...gelist-jimmy-swaggart-tearfully-confesses-his

They have an unassailable comprehension of morality

 

[BaronOfHair]

Religion (manmade or not) keeps human nature in check

We here in The Post-Industrial West have created replacement religions(Intersectionality, Red Pill Thought, Environmentalism... The list could go on)and remain no less dysfunctional than we were during The 1200s

Let's all cheer up: Everything is as it always has been

 

[justaroundthecorner]

(...)One thing I wasn't sure I understood properly was the following sentence:

"Sure some guys hate additional duties, little children cry or nagging of wife (which needs to care much more about baby than about herself - not to mention husband)"

In my mind, the husband should be priority #1 before the children (within reason) It means that he gets the reverence in the household and his needs are paramount. The kids get their basic survival needs met but he must be viewed and treated with a kingly reverence within the household. The kids being prioritized at every turn of the road at the expense of making the husband a background prop is something I see very often with women who "prioritize the kids". It's like he slowly fades into the background and loses gravity.

I don't think its possible when you have a newborn baby in house - newborn baby is a priority also for you (it's safety is more important than your safety or your job etc.) the priority is just not that visible if you have a decent job.

Also taking care of baby certainly does not limit itself to "basic survival needs" - e.g. during the first year you have choice to pay for extra vaccines or not (extra are better), buy clothes (or get some from friend or family member which is past that stage), buy & build crib for a child, buy tons of diapers (which is the only choice for man wanting to save his sanity), buy basic or better foods once child will be past first 4-5 months of life. If you want your child to stay longer on a breastfeeding (about 1 year is optimal but a lot of women does not want to feed that long) you need to take care of some things your woman did until now or pay someone else to take care of them.

Also sex happens less often as mood and energy levels in relationship are often certainly not there.

Generally speaking most of the guys in my opinion are worth less than their children as with their children, there is hope for someone extraordinary while it often cannot be said about father or mother.

 

[Divorced w 3]

My friend’s 25 year old brother is reading the Bible on a daily basis and going to Church, his girlfriend goes to Church, and apparently they’re not the only ones in their friend group that do. He has his head on straight, has the respect of a lot of successful people, is the power of attorney to his family who are worth 10’s of millions of dollars, all because he’s got his head on right. At 25. And he’s the second youngest of 5. I just learned he’s doing the religion thing yesterday.

It’s definitely making a comeback.

 

[BaronOfHair]

There would be much less peace and much more violence

Recall Western Europe during The Medieval Era AND The Renaissance, and note the state of The Near East, Latin America, and Sub-Saharan Africa(all parts of the world far more religious than North America and Western Europe)today

We're far MORE bellicose, when we believe that God has sanctioned whatever it is we do

 

[BaronOfHair]

There was a time when virginity was honorable, not anymore...

There was a time families sat around the dinner table every night and talked about each others day, not anymore

The latter activity inevitably resulted in the 16 year old daughter's pregnancy by her own father being exposed, and the 13 year old son confessing to starring in gay porn, so as to fund his coke addiction... Subsequently, more and more folks recognized the wisdom of keeping our yaps closed around the dinner table, allowing many of life's more unsavory events(Pops drove DD to the clinic one night/had that sh-t aborted... DS grew out of fondness for dope, found a mainstream vocation)to work themselves out covertly

Insofar as church attendance among men goes: That's occasionally flowed and drastically ebbed, throughout the history of Western Christianity https://www.artofmanliness.com/character/knowledge-of-men/the-feminization-of-christianity/ Quote: "Podles speculates that the feminization of Christianity began in about the 13th century, for reasons we’ll detail in the next section.

Whether or not the gender gap can be traced back that far, we know with a surety that it began at least as early as the 17th century in America. In fact, the gap seems to have arrived right along with the country’s Puritan settlers. The rolls of early New England churches show more female than male members, despite the fact that there were about 150 men to 100 women in the population overall"

If there is currently an uptick in men thumping The Good Book, that's almost certainly going to have a shorter lifespan than Steve Guttenberg's career, post-88

 

[BeExcellent]

Like @Divorced w 3 the younger generation in my family is taking religion (and the associated values) seriously.

My son is Catholic, married in the Catholic church and has a career and young family. He's the sole earner....by design. He serves as well on the board of a charitable foundation and may see if he can assist another foundation which does scholarships that was founded by his paternal grandfather's old unit.

He's 23. He is a trustee as well for my trust and is helping educate his sisters and cousins about family values and wealth creation/preservation. His buddies are either already married or mostly in LTRs with a liklihood of marriage.

There is a move away from all the leftist woke stuff going on in the youth today. People need something bigger to be a part of. When you as a society tear God away from the institutions, something comes in to fill that void because it is a need. In recent years that has been leftist liberalism and wokeness. But young people are not as stupid as the left would like. Many are rejecting the woke worldview and rediscovering traditional values.

And that in my view is a good thing.

 

[BaronOfHair]

There is a move away from all the leftist woke stuff going on in the youth today

The Woke Left was and continues to be a non-theistic, Marxist-lite version of The Moral Majority, down to their squeamishness around frank discussions about sex and hyper-sensitivity to speech. Ain't surprising that today's kids are now going tradcon, a life philosophy that shares all of Wokeness's most poisonous components, just with more God talk

All this is the equivalent of someone who's spent the past week eating lunch at Taco Bell walking down the street to Burger King, then thinking "I've hit jackpot!!!" after ONE meal, not realizing:

They'll be just as dissatisfied with what's being served up at BK as they were with Taco Bell, in the very near future. Same way so many of The Hippies of The 1960s went Christian in the late 70s, became Reganite Democrats/Full-Blown Republicans in The 80s, then transformed back into wide-eyed, Large L Liberals who mistook Bill Clinton for a demi-god, once The 90s rolled around

 

[BaronOfHair]

American society as a whole seems to be struggling, with blame being cast in every direction instead of self-reflection.

Yeah, we spent most the 2000s groaning over how divided we are, took a breather on that between '09-'16, then resumed doing so from '16-today. Sublime as being more unified sounds in theory, in practice THAT more often than leads civilizations who enbrace it down some pretty sinister turns

If anything, individuality here in The US has been increasingly denigrated from 9/11-forward, while tribalism has been rabid beyond all compare

 

[BeExcellent]

The Woke Left was and continues to be a non-theistic, Marxist-lite version of The Moral Majority, down to their squeamishness around frank discussions about sex and hyper-sensitivity to speech. Ain't surprising that today's kids are now going tradcon, a life philosophy that shares all of Wokeness's most poisonous components, just with more God talk

All this is the equivalent of someone who's spent the past week eating lunch at Taco Bell walking down the street to Burger King, then thinking "I've hit jackpot!!!" after ONE meal, not realizing:

They'll be just as dissatisfied with what's being served up at BK as they were with Taco Bell, in the very near future. Same way so many of The Hippies of The 1960s went Christian in the late 70s, became Reganite Democrats/Full-Blown Republicans in The 80s, then transformed back into wide-eyed, Large L Liberals who mistook Bill Clinton for a demi-god, once The 90s rolled around

Disagree entirely with your logic and your supporting arguement, but politics is against the rules here so will simply agree to disagree. China will never be the West. Because in China there will never be the idealistic freedom or room for political dissent. That is NOT a positive thing. How do I know? My dissident Chinese friends who escaped red China to the freedom of the US.

If you do not understand that China has designs on world domination you are not paying attention to what Chinese interests are buying all over the world.

Don't be naieve.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Disagree entirely with your logic and your supporting arguement, but politics is against the rules here so will simply agree to disagree

Wasn't really discussing politics, so much societal trends. Kids in their early 20s may be returning to church and tinkering with tradcon living in greater numbers that was the case at the end of The 2010s and early 2020s... There's conflicting data on the subject. A similar phenomena has already occurred multiple times within living memory:
Bible thumping and Neo-Traditionalism was once again hip in the late 1970s throughout The 80s, degenerated into a punchline by time '93 rolled around, only for Going Evangelical to once again become "cool" in The early 2000s

If those who've returned to church are gaining emotional benefits from doing so, along with becoming more generous human beings in the process, I salute that. The weight of the evidence though indicates that this(Living something approaching a tradcon existence, that is)ain't going to endure

More than a few of those 25 year olds who've currently found Jesus + Gotten married and fathered 2.5 kids will, 5 years from now, knock up a 19 year-old secretary and find themselves in the midst of bitter divorces and custody battles. Or/and wake up one morning to find that what they believed to be their RL June Cleavers have run off to San Francisco, undergone sex changes, and opted to live in a free love commune


"China will never be the West. Because in China there will never be the idealistic freedom or room for political dissent. That is NOT a positive thing"

Agree completely, and the video I linked was making that very point. That's what makes the insatiable hard-on we have here in modern-day America for "greater unity" so disconcerting... Entirely too many of us mistake that for something desirable

 

[MatureDJ]

The paycheck idea is something that is very new, something that maybe started getting the norm with the industrial age

Marriage as an institution is something much older than the the beginning of the industrial age

OK, in the caveman days, the paycheck was a woolly mammoth.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Like @Divorced w 3 the younger generation in my family is taking religion (and the associated values) seriously.

My son is Catholic, married in the Catholic church and has a career and young family. He's the sole earner....by design. He serves as well on the board of a charitable foundation and may see if he can assist another foundation which does scholarships that was founded by his paternal grandfather's old unit.

He's 23. He is a trustee as well for my trust and is helping educate his sisters and cousins about family values and wealth creation/preservation. His buddies are either already married or mostly in LTRs with a liklihood of marriage.

There is a move away from all the leftist woke stuff going on in the youth today. People need something bigger to be a part of. When you as a society tear God away from the institutions, something comes in to fill that void because it is a need. In recent years that has been leftist liberalism and wokeness. But young people are not as stupid as the left would like. Many are rejecting the woke worldview and rediscovering traditional values.

And that in my view is a good thing.

 

[BaronOfHair]

View attachment 14725

You'd think that our collective affection for LeBron, Starbucks, Pepsi, and seeing lesbians finger blast each other in porn rather than dudes sucking each other off in such flicks would be grounds enough for us to recognize our shared humanity

Perhaps, as the cartoon kinda sorta implies, we could all benefit from meeting up at Church's each week, conversing(I.E. Not debating or arguing, but actually sharing ideas)over fried chicken

 

[BeExcellent]

Yes @BaronOfHair we are agreed on that. The US was set up as a pluralistic society where the Quakers, the Protestants, the Catholics and the Jews could all get along despite religious differences.

But in a society devoid of solid religious beliefs something else happens. The political views become the religion. This is what is happening on the left to a great degree. And we all know how polical views have contributed to horrific atrocities over and over, even moreso I'd say than religion.

History highlights the extermination on the Jews by the Nazis during WWII but those numbers pale in comparison to the many many millions of people slaughtered by Stalin in Russia and Mao in China. And that threat still exists today and is very sobering.

None of it is Ok of course, but the idea that people do not routinely eradicate others is easy to hold when you do not reside in South Sudan.

 

[Hoodie]

Originally, this was a comment on someone's thread but I decided to turn it into a post:

It's very interesting to hear about Italy. I heard something similar from a guy who is in his 50s who used to be a playboy. He said Italian women are hyper feminists now. They don't like men anymore just like it is in the US.

I recently went out to a party here in the US and I heard a woman say something very common out here: "the dating game is fvcked up and women are masculine BUT it's because of men. Men are not masculine anymore so women have to become men."

They blame us for it. Women will not stick up for us. We have to take our power back and put them in their place.

Unfortunately, we can't have both worlds.

If men are going to take society back, that means we can't have the game and picking up girls and all this promiscuity. Game was never created for every man. It can be argued that game was traditionally something you did within a relationship and maybe 5-10% of men did who were rich, aristocrats, etc. But the idea that every man can experience "abundance" and be banging loads of women is trash and it's contributing to the decay of our society.

In order to make most women "marriageable and feminine" again, we can't turn them into slvts and we have to restart the patriarchy: strong fathers, submissive wives, daughters who are protected until marriage, etc. That's the only way. Otherwise women will self-sabotage and create a philosophy meant to justify it. Same with men. Men need to be aware that they are not helping the sexual market by taking advantage of their power too much.

Every time I take a woman out knowing I'm going to b*ng her and leave, there is a slight element of guilt even though I do it with the most noble intentions and I'm very respectful. I wonder if we would have been better off just spending time together, even romantically but not banging. Hell, even oral s*x but to penetrate is extremely intimate. A sacred thing. I dont know anymore...

That's my theory anyway.

Simple fix: Only have sex with her if you intend to have kids with her.
This alone would fix alot.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The US was set up as a pluralistic society where the Quakers, the Protestants, the Catholics and the Jews could all get along despite religious differences

Actually, the mostly WASP colonialists had little love for Catholics of any kind, yet exhibited an especially virulent disdain for Roman Catholics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States A sentiment that was revived in The 19th and Early 20th Century, in reaction to immigration from places Italy and Latin America

And we didn't put our beef with Jews

(mostly)to bed until The 1970s
Which makes the modern-day sideshow attractions we call "commentators" on cable news TV all the more absurd, when they start yapping about The US's alleged Judeo-Christian heritage... The grandfathers of these schmucks would've lynched them personally, for so much as implying that they had anything in common with The Chosen People

The idea of our entire nation becoming one in which everybody's in church on Sundays, and flawlessly abides by scripture when they're not in the pews is, I concede, a intriguing fantasy to entertain... There's also zero evidence whatsoever to suggest that anything resembling such a fantasy is about to come to fruition. In the last 4 decades alone, we've witnessed Tradcon Living go boom then bust, at least 3 times

The way forward might just be for us to actually start admitting outright that ideologies like Intersectionality and Red Pill Thought are, in fact, theologies, then renewing our commitment to religious tolerance

 

[Bible_Belt]

Because in China there will never be the idealistic freedom or room for political dissent.

Not yet, but I think we will witness China's demographic collapse within our lifetime. The CCP is Han, who are an ethnic minority. They hold a fragile alliance based upon the promise of giving everyone a job, which creates their over-leveraged economy that keeps building real estate developments that stay empty. The Russian Federation is strikingly similar, 2/3rds of both countries are ethnic minorities who would much rather have their own nations. Apartheid systems are destined to fail, especially when the ruling minority keeps shrinking.

 

[BeExcellent]

Not yet, but I think we will witness China's demographic collapse within our lifetime. The CCP is Han, who are an ethnic minority. They hold a fragile alliance based upon the promise of giving everyone a job, which creates their over-leveraged economy that keeps building real estate developments that stay empty. The Russian Federation is strikingly similar, 2/3rds of both countries are ethnic minorities who would much rather have their own nations. Apartheid systems are destined to fail, especially when the ruling minority keeps shrinking.

I hope you are correct my friend and I agree with your position Tien a men Square (I am certain to have grossly misspelled that) was a courageous thing I remember seeing on the news as a college student 35+ years ago. The oppression will get worse I fear before such a collapse comes, but when it comes, like ancient Rome it will fall from within.

 

[BeExcellent]

Actually, the mostly WASP colonialists had little love for Catholics of any kind, yet exhibited an especially virulent disdain for Roman Catholics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States A sentiment that was revived in The 19th and Early 20th Century, in reaction to immigration from places Italy and Latin America

And we didn't put our beef with Jews

(mostly)to bed until The 1970s
Which makes the modern-day sideshow attractions we call "commentators" on cable news TV all the more absurd, when they start yapping about The US's alleged Judeo-Christian heritage... The grandfathers of these schmucks would've lynched them personally, for so much as implying that they had anything in common with The Chosen People

The idea of our entire nation becoming one in which everybody's in church on Sundays, and flawlessly abides by scripture when they're not in the pews is, I concede, a intriguing fantasy to entertain... There's also zero evidence whatsoever to suggest that anything resembling such a fantasy is about to come to fruition. In the last 4 decades alone, we've witnessed Tradcon Living go boom then bust, at least 3 times

The way forward might just be for us to actually start admitting outright that ideologies like Intersectionality and Red Pill Thought are, in fact, theologies, then renewing our commitment to religious tolerance

My point is the original 13 colonies were havens for certain religious viewpoints. Maryland is so named after Saint Mary, the mother of Christ and was a Catholic state prior to the American revolution.

The 13 colonies had to set aside things like religious differences to overthrow British rule.

That is my point. United States. There is a reason we are called that.