Society cant have it both ways folks...

[SpartanWarrior77]

Originally, this was a comment on someone's thread but I decided to turn it into a post:

It's very interesting to hear about Italy. I heard something similar from a guy who is in his 50s who used to be a playboy. He said Italian women are hyper feminists now. They don't like men anymore just like it is in the US.

I recently went out to a party here in the US and I heard a woman say something very common out here: "the dating game is fvcked up and women are masculine BUT it's because of men. Men are not masculine anymore so women have to become men."

They blame us for it. Women will not stick up for us. We have to take our power back and put them in their place.

Unfortunately, we can't have both worlds.

If men are going to take society back, that means we can't have the game and picking up girls and all this promiscuity. Game was never created for every man. It can be argued that game was traditionally something you did within a relationship and maybe 5-10% of men did who were rich, aristocrats, etc. But the idea that every man can experience "abundance" and be banging loads of women is trash and it's contributing to the decay of our society.

In order to make most women "marriageable and feminine" again, we can't turn them into slvts and we have to restart the patriarchy: strong fathers, submissive wives, daughters who are protected until marriage, etc. That's the only way. Otherwise women will self-sabotage and create a philosophy meant to justify it. Same with men. Men need to be aware that they are not helping the sexual market by taking advantage of their power too much.

Every time I take a woman out knowing I'm going to b*ng her and leave, there is a slight element of guilt even though I do it with the most noble intentions and I'm very respectful. I wonder if we would have been better off just spending time together, even romantically but not banging. Hell, even oral s*x but to penetrate is extremely intimate. A sacred thing. I dont know anymore...

That's my theory anyway.

 

[BeExcellent]

Promiscuity is bad for you. The whole "no sex until marriage" thing and all.

The best thing we can do, those of us who are parents, is be honest about this. Be transparent. Explain why promiscuity is harmful.

Hell. My son had a friend who met a girl at a strip club one night. He talked to him at 1:15am as he went home with the girl. She gave him some drugs to party.

Laced with street fentanyl. He was dead from an OD that night. Very sobering. My son was sad this week as his friend died a year ago.

Age 22.

So there are terrible risks. Of heartbreak, of lots of unforeseen things. We must tell our kids lest they become statistics.

 

[BadBoy89]

I think men, if they love the girl, they would be happy with her forever. Have a family with her, take trips with her, love her, etc.
It’s the women who want to go be with other men and experiment.

I would go so far as to far women dont love. They give their bodies to the man out of practicality and usefulenss, but they don’t love. It’s the men who love, who want intimacy, who want babies,

 

[justaroundthecorner]

Rules of attraction were always responsibe to laws of economy, but today there are simply too many 6/10 and 7/10 guys (or below) thinking they are going towards 10 and get a supermodel while in fact they go towards 5 but will stand on some money and other assets therefore all they can get is barter-like transaction.

Same goes for hot females and all the rest that are not so hot or not hot at all. Females are even worse in this case as they pretty much delay mating with lower-tier males until they are past their most attractive stage (until-30 years old) hoping they will get A-tier guy on the leash (which almost never happens). In the end most of betas get a chick that is already well past being virgin but also well past age of being really desiderable - therefore betas, gammas and all below have little incentive to enter into LTR with "used commodity" (because often thats how low female falls from her top form once she is finally considering other guys).

People usually want someone they cannot get, it always has been like that - except now reality check never happens for majority of people because life got too easy for us and we do not really need another person at least until health issues happpen.

 

[RangerMIke]

They blame us for it. Women will not stick up for us. We have to take our power back and put them in their place.

That's my theory anyway.

My theory as well. Men are at least 50% responsible for whatever society we live in.

 

[Bigpapa]

Rules of attraction were always responsibe to laws of economy, but today there are simply too many 6/10 and 7/10 guys (or below) thinking they are going towards 10 and get a supermodel while in fact they go towards 5 but will stand on some money and other assets therefore all they can get is barter-like transaction.

Same goes for hot females and all the rest that are not so hot or not hot at all. Females are even worse in this case as they pretty much delay mating with lower-tier males until they are past their most attractive stage (until-30 years old) hoping they will get A-tier guy on the leash (which almost never happens). In the end most of betas get a chick that is already well past being virgin but also well past age of being really desiderable - therefore betas, gammas and all below have little incentive to enter into LTR with "used commodity" (because often thats how low female falls from her top form once she is finally considering other guys).

People usually want someone they cannot get, it always has been like that - except now reality check never happens for majority of people because life got too easy for us and we do not really need another person at least until health issues happpen.

if you would be a woman with little to no role models that you can look up to, what would you understand from this society, where everyone is saying to live your life at the fullest

and as role models for women we have the likes like Kim kardashian

so with all this “pressure” would you think about having a child with a guy that is average or below? Or having a child at all till you are past your early 30s?

not really, you would live your life at the fullest and hope that you will win the roulette, just like addicted gamblers are

Some will have some revelations earlier, some late and some never

but from my experience, it is not about how high value you are as a guy, you still very likely be treated poorly, as just an option. And we tend to treat women the same back, just as options. Everyone being like an addict looking for his next high

women do have their fault, but also men for letting society decay

Imagine society being run by guys like musk or bezos, who mainly bang average old women without paying for escorts. I think this says everything needed about the society we live in. The funny thing is that most guys cheer for them and think that they are amazing, because most likely they would do the same if they would be in their shoes

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Promiscuity is bad for you. The whole "no sex until marriage" thing and all.

The best thing we can do, those of us who are parents, is be honest about this. Be transparent. Explain why promiscuity is harmful.

Hell. My son had a friend who met a girl at a strip club one night. He talked to him at 1:15am as he went home with the girl. She gave him some drugs to party.

Laced with street fentanyl. He was dead from an OD that night. Very sobering. My son was sad this week as his friend died a year ago.

Age 22.

So there are terrible risks. Of heartbreak, of lots of unforeseen things. We must tell our kids lest they become statistics.

Sorry to hear that about your sons friend. Absolutely, I agree that we must make our kids aware of this dynamic.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I think men, if they love the girl, they would be happy with her forever. Have a family with her, take trips with her, love her, etc.
It’s the women who want to go be with other men and experiment.

I would go so far as to far women dont love. They give their bodies to the man out of practicality and usefulenss, but they don’t love. It’s the men who love, who want intimacy, who want babies,

It's true that men and women love differently. Women are often thought to love more pragmatically but ever heard of a "ride or die" chick? They're out there too...

 

[Clockwerk50]

I'll admit, since Charlie Kirk’s death, I’ve gone deep down the rabbit hole of U.S. politics, the alt-right, and Christian nationalism. I’ve found myself arguing with a few Christian nationalists lately, especially over their more divisive ideas and their belief that religion should be intertwined with government.

To be honest, I keep getting my arguments handed back to me, mostly because I’m not very well-versed in either the Bible or politics. Still, one of their central claims is that society is falling apart because of a moral decline, that we’ve lost our sense of right and wrong, and that men have lost their roles as strong leaders and protectors.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree with your post, but it definitely reminded me of some of the things they’ve been saying lately. Just thought I’d share that.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

I'll admit, since Charlie Kirk’s death, I’ve gone deep down the rabbit hole of U.S. politics, the alt-right, and Christian nationalism. I’ve found myself arguing with a few Christian nationalists lately, especially over their more divisive ideas and their belief that religion should be intertwined with government.

To be honest, I keep getting my arguments handed back to me, mostly because I’m not very well-versed in either the Bible or politics. Still, one of their central claims is that society is falling apart because of a moral decline, that we’ve lost our sense of right and wrong, and that men have lost their roles as strong leaders and protectors.

I’m not saying I agree or disagree with your post, but it definitely reminded me of some of the things they’ve been saying lately. Just thought I’d share that.

Christianity is at the root of our civilization. Read the book Dominion by Tom Holland. Nietzsche was right, christianity is declining and there is a "hollowing out" of our metaphysical understanding but...

The alternative is much worse. 99% of people need religion to operate, even the most intelligent out of us (especially those, bc they are too rational and end up making even worse mistakes, man is not a rational creature). Religion (manmade or not) keeps human nature in check. Otherwise its just nihilism and materialism.

Religion/tradition contains thousands of micro-adjustments that even the most intelligent can't see. There's a reason it survived so long.

Right now you are seeing the decline of religion and the coming back to a very primal state: winner takes all. Increasingly skewed social and sexual distribution.

That being said, i think its possible to be "religeous" but still doubt underneath. You don't have to believe it but you can just follow it. Play the game so to speak. See what happens...u might be surprised. Thats how I see it. I don't necessarily believe in it but I trust it.

 

[Glassguy]

Christianity is at the root of our civilization. Read the book Dominion by Tom Holland. Nietzsche was right, christianity is declining and there is a "hollowing out" of our metaphysical understanding but...

The alternative is much worse. 99% of people need religion to operate, even the most intelligent out of us (especially those, bc they are too rational and end up making even worse mistakes, man is not a rational creature). Religion (manmade or not) keeps human nature in check. Otherwise its just nihilism and materialism.

Religion/tradition contains thousands of micro-adjustments that even the most intelligent can't see. There's a reason it survived so long.

Right now you are seeing the decline of religion and the coming back to a very primal state: winner takes all. Increasingly skewed social and sexual distribution.

That being said, i think its possible to be "religeous" but still doubt underneath. You don't have to believe it but you can just follow it. Play the game so to speak. See what happens...u might be surprised. Thats how I see it. I don't necessarily believe in it but I trust it.

The Bible I have says there is no neutral. Either one side or the other.
IMO, people know what is morally right and wrong without religion. We knew at 3 yrs old that it wasnt right to lie or steal. We dont need religion to understand this, we need religion to get us past this.....which is the mercy and salvation.
I cannot imagine the world without "certain" religions. There would be much less peace and much more violence. Hard to imagine with the amount we are seeing every week now.
Good post though. But I wouldn't be caught "playing the game" religiously. End times are spelled out and we are getting closer every day.

 

[Bigpapa]

Made me laugh

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[The Duke]

For the last 30+ years I have seen society decline in many ways. It first started with the quality of products and food we consume. Eventually that style of thinking bled into how individuals treated others. Now the market is flooded with cheap, get your fix quick products and people that aren't made to stand the test of time. We live in a throw-a-way society. We don't fix things, we don't work to improve them, we throw them away and get another one and it doesn't matter if its consumer goods or people.

There was a time when divorce was frowned upon, not anymore.

There was a time when women having multiple sexual partners was frowned upon, not anymore.

There was a time when virginity was honorable, not anymore.

There was a time when you knew your neighbors well, sat on the front porch together, talked in the yard, and took homemade food to them, not anymore.

There was a time families sat around the dinner table every night and talked about each others day, not anymore.

There was a time when a 16yo girl got pregnant, she was removed from school and sent somewhere else, not anymore.

There was a time you could leave a shotgun/rifle in the back window of your truck in your highschool parking lot and no one was ever going to steal it, or kill somebody with it.

There was a time we didn't have mass shootings.

There was a time we weren't so divided as a society.

There was a time we were more accepting of differences.

The more we have moved away from religion, the less restraint individuals seem to have. I don't know if religion is the answer, but one can't ignore the fact that when people followed religion more closely, the United States was a better place. Afterall, its what this country was founded on and helped it become so prosperous. We had a unfied group working towards a common goal.

They do say that more men are attending church than in years before. For the first time in history, men are more religious than women. If you want that traditional wife, you need to be a traditional man and the church is a good place to start. I think men need a sense of belonging and you can get that in church. I wouldn't be surprised if women follow the men back to church. I don't think they are happy either.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Societies with weak women often have weak men as well, a truth many may not want to acknowledge. American society as a whole seems to be struggling, with blame being cast in every direction instead of self-reflection.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Promiscuity is bad for you. The whole "no sex until marriage" thing and all.

The best thing we can do, those of us who are parents, is be honest about this. Be transparent. Explain why promiscuity is harmful.

Hell. My son had a friend who met a girl at a strip club one night. He talked to him at 1:15am as he went home with the girl. She gave him some drugs to party.

Laced with street fentanyl. He was dead from an OD that night. Very sobering. My son was sad this week as his friend died a year ago.

Age 22.

So there are terrible risks. Of heartbreak, of lots of unforeseen things. We must tell our kids lest they become statistics.

Sad story but I'm not sure that I would equate premarital sex with doing street drugs. Talk about black and white thinking.

Waiting until marriage for sex is both unrealistic and extremely shortsighted in today's society, to say nothing of the fact that marriage itself is a dying institution that will likely disappear by the turn of the century, if not sooner.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Sad story but I'm not sure that I would equate premarital sex with doing street drugs. Talk about black and white thinking.

Waiting until marriage for sex is both unrealistic and extremely shortsighted in today's society, to say nothing of the fact that marriage itself is a dying institution that will likely disappear by the turn of the century, if not sooner.

The problem with American society is that we are removing foundational pillars without replacing them. I've visited both religiously dominated and atheist countries, and the common factor I noticed was the presence of a social contract in their societies. In the USA, when religion and other traditional institutions are stripped away, they are being replaced with debauchery, individualism, and hypocrisy. While a world where marriage as an institution isn't valid can exist, a social contract is still necessary to maintain order and prevent chaos.

 

[BeExcellent]

Sad story but I'm not sure that I would equate premarital sex with doing street drugs. Talk about black and white thinking.

Waiting until marriage for sex is both unrealistic and extremely shortsighted in today's society, to say nothing of the fact that marriage itself is a dying institution that will likely disappear by the turn of the century, if not sooner.

Well the point I am making is that in a world where the pursuit of hedonism reigns that there are many associated risks, both direct & indirect & often too there are unintended consequences. The "Sex, Drugs & Rock N' Roll" party mentality is alive & well out there, and it can be very dangerous, even tragic.

My son is not a prude at all, but his relationship with his now wife, his goals and his life direction always were his top priorities, even when he had buddies with different priorities. His father (the former nightclub owner) and I were very frank with our children about the risks associated with the lifestyle people think is very "cool". It has a downside and the decisions made when no guiding parent or mentor is around to consult can be irreversible.

My children actually consider these things when we are not around because they were constantly made aware of the risks associated with behavioral choices, it was discussed regularly and objectively at home. They were also taught that good decision making must occur independent of parents or peers and that often the correct/safe decision is unpopular or tough.

When my son lost his friend (a smart/handsome/likeable/ambitious young man) to a series of ill advised decisions on his last night alive, he was heartbroken. You are supposed to be invincible in your early 20s right? My son called me in tears, and thanked me (and his dad) for teaching him values and WHY those values are important. He saw first hand how one bad decision, a preventable decision, cost his friend's life.

One thing we've told our kids is "Look. Drugs were a thing in our day too. We've been exposed to that and seen the downsides....but now everything is potentially laced with fentanyl, a drug 1000x more potent than morphine/heroin....and it only takes once to kill you."

Unfortunately that lesson hit very close to home.

So the hedonistic lifestyle carries great risks and its a slippery slope if an individual starts slipping down that path. My son's friend expected to have a good time banging the stripper. One thing led to another to another. With a terrible outcome.

Its a cautionary tale here. A tragedy for the young man's family & friends.

 

[Bible_Belt]

belief that religion should be intertwined with government

Until it's not their religion, exactly how they practice it. Of course this country was founded by people with strong beliefs, that's the rationale for keeping the government out of it. They'll just fvck it up like they do everything else.

 

[Solomon]

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times" – G. Michael Hopf.


Whether people realize it or not, the world is going through a correction, but first there will be chaos, because the old system ain't just gonna lie down. This includes the dating market. I have spoken about how we are about to see a depression within the next 10 years that will be worse than the great depression. I just saw a video of a football field with a 100K people praising and worshipping the most high God!

People are lonelier than ever, people are having less sex, people are even drinking less. Why? people are craving for authenticity and real, realtionships whether that is with God or their fellow men. We give Gen-Z a lot of crap but to see Gen-Z be the wave of revival is a good sign for society. I do think traditonal relationships and marriages will make a major comeback, give it 5-10 years. If I'm wrong I will give the owner of sosuave a million dollars

2035 challenge!

 

[BeExcellent]

Until it's not their religion, exactly how they practice it. Of course this country was founded by people with strong beliefs, that's the rationale for keeping the government out of it. They'll just fvck it up like they do everything else.

The above is exactly the point people miss. The founding fathers ASSUMED that a moral people would ascribe to the principles (which are founded in the Judeo-Christian value system, which also underpins the idea of 'rule of law').

So they aren't laying out what a "moral" population is, that was a given. It was assumed, so obvious as not to need mention.

The problem today is that the very value system our founding fathers took to be as a foregone conclusion has severly eroded (by design over time IMO) and without a framework of that value system you cannot assume morality and therefore value systems based in morality become fallible.

And that then opens the door for either extreme right or extreme left forms of societal government and control, neither of which have the freedoms people in the US enjoy today; for now.