so epstein hung himself are you surprised

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Spaz

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Because the girls were not charged with ignorance in a court of law. It is not their fault if their parents failed them.

You can just as easily argue that no amount of instilled values will stop a teenage girl from taking easy money from a predator.

The same as I wouldn't blame a teenage boy for following a pedo-priest to his rectory for whatever ostensible reason was presented.

Plenty of adolescents raised by good parents with values make poor decisions, sometimes with fatal consequences.

And that the law failed to prevent it is irrelevant. He took the risk and the law caught up with him.
Then I'll be clear in my response to you.

Did the perp got what he deserved? Yes.

Does it exonerate the perp that those girls took money in return for sexual favors? No.

Are those girls morally guilty for taking money to perform sexual acts? Yes.

I think we can agree with that.

But let's go beyond that into a realm that one seldom encroaches.

Let's 1st take a look at how society views those "victims".

Now that they are the "victims", they are on the air daily, ur society talks about it, even millions of little girls can't help but hear it spoken over the dinner table, the indignation and anger from her parents.

The direct communication = The man was a monster.

But at the same time there's a subcommunication too.

I'll give a hint, if I were to place an advert for teenage girls, that shows a sexy sweating girl wearing hot pants on a hot day drinking Coca-Cola with the heading "Sugar Is Extremely Bad For The Body" and for added effect "Diabetes Kills Millions".

The direct communication is there but so is the subcommunication, when they notice teenage boys ogling at the picture.

What do you think the subcommunication that's being communicated to millions of little girls in this case?
 
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sazc

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Then I'll be clear in my response to you.

Did the perp got what he deserved? Yes.

Does it exonerate the perp that those girls took money in return for sexual favors? No.

Are those girls morally guilty for taking money to perform sexual acts? Yes.

I think we can agree with that.

But let's go beyond that into a realm that one seldom encroaches.

Let's 1st take a look at how society views those "victims".

Now that they are the "victims", they are on the air daily, ur society talks about it, even millions of little girls can't help but hear it spoken over the dinner table, the indignation and anger from her parents.

The direct communication = The man was a monster.

But at the same time there's a subcommunication too.

I'll give a hint, if I were to place an advert for teenage girls, that shows a sexy sweating girl wearing hot pants on a hot day drinking Coca-Cola with the heading "Sugar Is Extremely Bad For The Body" and for added effect "Diabetes Kills Millions".

The direct communication is there but so is the subcommunication, when they notice teenage boys ogling at the picture.

What do you think the subcommunication that's being communicated to millions of little girls in this case?
Wow, called out for your support of pedophilia and you're completely trying to derail and deflect the conversation on to something else. Ridiculous
 

sazc

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Keep ur emotions in check sazc.

I'm interested in engaging with samspade, you will benefit from my conversation with him.

Hush now and have patience.
My emotions are very much in check

Lok @ running from the woman who's calling you out for being a pedophilia supporter. You're doing everything you can to get away. That's 1000% clear to everyone reading this

Coward
 

sazc

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Keep ur emotions in check sazc.

I'm interested in engaging with samspade, you will benefit from my conversation with him.

Hush now and have patience.
why don't you take some of your ability to read and go educate yourself on sex trafficking grooming and pedophilia. I'd say go talk to your parents but clearly they dropped the ball in many more than just this area
 
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AttackFormation

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You guys are sick. Again I am reminded why men on this site have issues with women.
Lol ive got both/all suspects on ignore. You need to use that function liberally. Dont feed the antisocials and trolls
 

wifehunter

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It's all fake news anyway, completely meaningless at this point.
 

samspade

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Keep ur emotions in check sazc.

I'm interested in engaging with samspade, you will benefit from my conversation with him.

Hush now and have patience.
She's right, though, Spaz, and you're talking down. You're changing the subject. I'll get to that in a moment.

Are those girls morally guilty for taking money to perform sexual acts? Yes.

I think we can agree with that.
Sorry but I disagree. I'm not sure what you mean by "morally guilty."

Technically, they broke the law by accepting money for sexual acts. But Epstein's crimes are far more egregious, and their testimony was more valuable as a result. And of course, they are underage kids who were groomed for it, not fully-formed adults.

Personally my moral code does not consider prostitution between consenting adults to be immoral. But the law is the law. Should they have known better? Yes, but it doesn't make them immoral for making a poor decision.

Let's 1st take a look at how society views those "victims".

Now that they are the "victims", they are on the air daily, ur society talks about it, even millions of little girls can't help but hear it spoken over the dinner table, the indignation and anger from her parents.

The direct communication = The man was a monster.

But at the same time there's a subcommunication too.

I'll give a hint, if I were to place an advert for teenage girls, that shows a sexy sweating girl wearing hot pants on a hot day drinking Coca-Cola with the heading "Sugar Is Extremely Bad For The Body" and for added effect "Diabetes Kills Millions".

The direct communication is there but so is the subcommunication, when they notice teenage boys ogling at the picture.

What do you think the subcommunication that's being communicated to millions of little girls in this case?
It's a fact that advertising and advertising-driven media (e.g. the news) exploit the sexuality of teens and even younger kids to sell products. I assume that is what you're getting at. It's an issue at least as old as Shirley Temple movies. It's an exploitation not just of kids but of the eyes and minds of spectators. Not just men, either. We're all human and our reptilian brains will be distracted by images first and sort out the context afterwards. And some of us can't keep our eyes off of it, like a bad car wreck.

That's a separate issue altogether. We can't put the system on trial. Jeffrey Epstein could have jerked off to an Abercrombie catalog. He could have solicited any 18-year-old woman he wanted, even one who looked 14. Think about that. And maybe some of these girls were mature enough to handle it. Heck, the guy probably could have DATED a 16-year-old and gotten into less trouble. Instead he planned and executed (allegedly) a prostitution ring that lured teens on false pretenses, groomed them and paid them to fuçk him. Yeah, they could have said no, I will grant you that. They compromised their safety. But the onus was still on him. A 14-year-old girl is not master of puppets. We're always talking around here about being a man and making smart decisions (don't bang a married woman, or a coworker, etc.) and avoiding bad consequences. Here was a 60-something grown man with all the resources in the world; he should have been the one thinking for both/all of them.
 

sazc

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I was just reading an article today where one of his underaged accusers claimed Epstein threatened to keep her passport if she didn't have sex with him.

There's multiple other similar stories surrounding the man AND he killed himself, he knew he was guilty of the charges and none of this was going to go away, so he went coward and offed himself
 

samspade

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I was just reading an article today where one of his underaged accusers claimed Epstein threatened to keep her passport if she didn't have sex with him.

There's multiple other similar stories surrounding the man AND he killed himself, he knew he was guilty of the charges and none of this was going to go away, so he went coward and offed himself
They can still try that woman who helped him run the whole thing, right? Maybe some of this evidence will come to light or be corroborated if she goes to trial. Not quite the same, but she should answer for whatever she did, too.
 
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sazc

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They can still try that woman who helped him run the whole thing, right? Maybe some of this evidence will come to light or be corroborated if she goes to trial. Not quite the same, but she should answer for whatever she did, too.
Ghislene Maxwell

Not sure of it was the same article or not but they stated that all of the accusers point their finger at Ms Maxwell for rounding up the girls for Epstein but they have yet to find any single person who will deny that Ms Maxwell played that role.

From what I read, they will be going after anyone they can.

The country of France (Paris) has opened an investigation because Epstein sex trafficking activity took place over there.

George Clooney has been named by one of the girls.

This isn't going to be pretty, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out
 

guru1000

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why don't you take some of your ability to read and go educate yourself on sex trafficking grooming and pedophilia. I'd say go talk to your parents but clearly they dropped the ball in many more than just this area
Forgive Spasm. In the South East Asian country he lives in, sex trafficking is normal. Haven’t you seen his text messages with little boys?

Forgive him, he knows not what he does. As for the Epic guy aka Ranger who lives in the U.S., he has no excuse.
 
A

AJ84

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Oh she is just as guilty as him for targeting the girls knowing what was going to happen. She was his scouter. Now that he’s dead she will probably take the full fall in criminal court and the victims will sue his estate. As far as I’m concerned she should be classified as a registered sex offender.

That’s what I hope happens anyway.
 

Spaz

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She's right, though, Spaz, and you're talking down. You're changing the subject. I'll get to that in a moment.



Sorry but I disagree. I'm not sure what you mean by "morally guilty."

Technically, they broke the law by accepting money for sexual acts. But Epstein's crimes are far more egregious, and their testimony was more valuable as a result. And of course, they are underage kids who were groomed for it, not fully-formed adults.

Personally my moral code does not consider prostitution between consenting adults to be immoral. But the law is the law. Should they have known better? Yes, but it doesn't make them immoral for making a poor decision.



It's a fact that advertising and advertising-driven media (e.g. the news) exploit the sexuality of teens and even younger kids to sell products. I assume that is what you're getting at. It's an issue at least as old as Shirley Temple movies. It's an exploitation not just of kids but of the eyes and minds of spectators. Not just men, either. We're all human and our reptilian brains will be distracted by images first and sort out the context afterwards. And some of us can't keep our eyes off of it, like a bad car wreck.

That's a separate issue altogether. We can't put the system on trial. Jeffrey Epstein could have jerked off to an Abercrombie catalog. He could have solicited any 18-year-old woman he wanted, even one who looked 14. Think about that. And maybe some of these girls were mature enough to handle it. Heck, the guy probably could have DATED a 16-year-old and gotten into less trouble. Instead he planned and executed (allegedly) a prostitution ring that lured teens on false pretenses, groomed them and paid them to fuçk him. Yeah, they could have said no, I will grant you that. They compromised their safety. But the onus was still on him. A 14-year-old girl is not master of puppets. We're always talking around here about being a man and making smart decisions (don't bang a married woman, or a coworker, etc.) and avoiding bad consequences. Here was a 60-something grown man with all the resources in the world; he should have been the one thinking for both/all of them.
Nay my friend I wasn't trying to change the subject, it has always remain the same and it looks like my idea to engage in a different manner is stillborn.

But I'll be blunt now.

These Epstein story is making rounds in my real life social circle too, a hot topic more so after his death.

And the difference between our peoples is as night and day, in how it is perceived.

On one hand, I'd take the commentary here as being typically Western, whilst on the other hand my comments is reflective of typical Asians.

Everyone has read your stand (and others) and they too shall have mine.

Both the men and women here in my social circle are just repeating the same mantra I've heard a thousand times, "the western decadence", shaking their heads, I give them a sad smile of acknowledgement.

But what surprises me the most were the venomous sting from almost all the women in my circle, they questioned how is it that a young girl is even allowed out of her house to go unaccompanied by her own mother to another man's house? Doesn't her mother know what's her daughter doing?

Shaking their heads saying "don't they know that we females holds the honor of our fathers?!"

Some even shivered thinking how their own fathers would react if he even knew that they would venture into another man's house (at that age) without his permission, I asked and most replied they would get the beating of their lives.

Some even countered and said, that would be really good because they deeply believe that their own father would have probably disowned them for bringing shame to the family name.

And when one of the guys mentioned their young age?

The women all laughed, 1 even said, ask ur 7 year old neighbour to open her panties, offer her money and see what happens. That kept him quiet. That kept me and the other guys quiet too.

To the women here, in their minds, a typical 8-10 year old asian girl has already been imbued with all the values to protect her dignity and that of her family by her own mother, her mother's mother, her father's mother and her long line of female relatives so much so it becomes part and parcel of her psyche.

But I understand why, because I too would be enraged if my own hypothetical daughter does it, I'd probably kick her mother and my own daughter out of my house for breaking my pride, defying my leadership as head of the family.

I have too much pride as a man.

But these are the values of Asians.

We make sure our children are empowered with knowledge and we also make sure they take ownership of their responsibilities.

Yes, children has responsibilities too.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?

Don't look down on them. Empower them with values so that they can better protect themselves. Make sure they take ownership of it. Do not sweep it under the carpet by simply pointing that this law and that law is broken, its too late by then. Don't be reactive, be proactive.

How many men here has daughters? I bet a few do.

And if you were to lead and train ur family-daughter into taking responsibility for their actions (as most Asian fathers do), you think its likely they would do as those girls did?

Probability would be extremely low. Even the son of God had Judas but that didn't stop him from teaching what's right and good.

Those of you who have Asian wife's or girlfriends, ask them to verify my story, they may come from different countries but the basics is the same.

There's no social security here, there's hardly any therapist for trouble minds, there's almost no old folks home and there's so many we don't have because we take care of each other, from cradle to grave.

Values.

Don't be a father that is leaderless because if u r then it's akin to her being fatherless.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?
 

Epic Days

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Nay my friend I wasn't trying to change the subject, it has always remain the same and it looks like my idea to engage in a different manner is stillborn.

But I'll be blunt now.

These Epstein story is making rounds in my real life social circle too, a hot topic more so after his death.

And the difference between our peoples is as night and day, in how it is perceived.

On one hand, I'd take the commentary here as being typically Western, whilst on the other hand my comments is reflective of typical Asians.

Everyone has read your stand (and others) and they too shall have mine.

Both the men and women here in my social circle are just repeating the same mantra I've heard a thousand times, "the western decadence", shaking their heads, I give them a sad smile of acknowledgement.

But what surprises me the most were the venomous sting from almost all the women in my circle, they questioned how is it that a young girl is even allowed out of her house to go unaccompanied by her own mother to another man's house? Doesn't her mother know what's her daughter doing?

Shaking their heads saying "don't they know that we females holds the honor of our fathers?!"

Some even shivered thinking how their own fathers would react if he even knew that they would venture into another man's house (at that age) without his permission, I asked and most replied they would get the beating of their lives.

Some even countered and said, that would be really good because they deeply believe that their own father would have probably disowned them for bringing shame to the family name.

And when one of the guys mentioned their young age?

The women all laughed, 1 even said, ask ur 7 year old neighbour to open her panties, offer her money and see what happens. That kept him quiet. That kept me and the other guys quiet too.

To the women here, in their minds, a typical 8-10 year old asian girl has already been imbued with all the values to protect her dignity and that of her family by her own mother, her mother's mother, her father's mother and her long line of female relatives so much so it becomes part and parcel of her psyche.

But I understand why, because I too would be enraged if my own hypothetical daughter does it, I'd probably kick her mother and my own daughter out of my house for breaking my pride, defying my leadership as head of the family.

I have too much pride as a man.

But these are the values of Asians.

We make sure our children are empowered with knowledge and we also make sure they take ownership of their responsibilities.

Yes, children has responsibilities too.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?

Don't look down on them. Empower them with values so that they can better protect themselves. Make sure they take ownership of it. Do not sweep it under the carpet by simply pointing that this law and that law is broken, its too late by then. Don't be reactive, be proactive.

How many men here has daughters? I bet a few do.

And if you were to lead and train ur family-daughter into taking responsibility for their actions (as most Asian fathers do), you think its likely they would do as those girls did?

Probability would be extremely low. Even the son of God had Judas but that didn't stop him from teaching what's right and good.

Those of you who have Asian wife's or girlfriends, ask them to verify my story, they may come from different countries but the basics is the same.

There's no social security here, there's hardly any therapist for trouble minds, there's almost no old folks home and there's so many we don't have because we take care of each other, from cradle to grave.

Values.

Don't be a father that is leaderless because if u r then it's akin to her being fatherless.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?
This is a good representation of our decadence. Well put.
Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears and you will most likely be called a child molester or some other garbage.

This situation is representative of the social programming in the west. Complete elimination of individual responsibilities.

The alarming part is that some men are following socialistic indoctrinated women in this thread. I can see why they are this way but it doesn’t make it right.

Prostitution is against the law. Oh, never mind that.
Who’s more at fault, the rapist or the ten people on their phone watching while trying to call the police?

We are living in a sick society. There’s some here that aren’t worth the effort of reason.
 
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Danger

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This is a good representation of our decadence. Well put.
Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears and you will most likely be called a child molester or some other garbage.

This situation is representative of the social programming in the west. Complete elimination of individual responsibilities.

The alarming part is that some men are following socialistic indoctrinated women in this thread. I can see why they are this way but it doesn’t make it right.

Prostitution is against the law. Oh, never mind that.
Who’s more at fault, the rapist or the ten people on their phone watching while trying to call the police?

We are living in a sick society. There’s some here that aren’t worth the effort of reason.
Let's be clear.

You advocated for fvcking children.

You had an opportunity to address it when I called it out, and instead you called names and ran away.

At the end of the day you are advocating that it is ok to fvck children because you believe they have agency.

They are naive, naturally low self-esteem and have dreams of marrying Prince charming. ABSOLUTELY they are being taken advantage of here. Christ in ten years they will likely still be naive enough to hike in Morroco and get beheaded, or believe that it is a great thing to take in violent migrants who then rape them.

But here you are saying that children have agency and knew what they were doing and advocate that if someone fvcks the child then it is on the child.

Nope, I call total bull$hit on that. A child fvcker doesn't get to fvck children and claim it's on the child.
 
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samspade

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Nay my friend I wasn't trying to change the subject, it has always remain the same and it looks like my idea to engage in a different manner is stillborn.

But I'll be blunt now.

These Epstein story is making rounds in my real life social circle too, a hot topic more so after his death.

And the difference between our peoples is as night and day, in how it is perceived.

On one hand, I'd take the commentary here as being typically Western, whilst on the other hand my comments is reflective of typical Asians.

Everyone has read your stand (and others) and they too shall have mine.

Both the men and women here in my social circle are just repeating the same mantra I've heard a thousand times, "the western decadence", shaking their heads, I give them a sad smile of acknowledgement.

But what surprises me the most were the venomous sting from almost all the women in my circle, they questioned how is it that a young girl is even allowed out of her house to go unaccompanied by her own mother to another man's house? Doesn't her mother know what's her daughter doing?

Shaking their heads saying "don't they know that we females holds the honor of our fathers?!"

Some even shivered thinking how their own fathers would react if he even knew that they would venture into another man's house (at that age) without his permission, I asked and most replied they would get the beating of their lives.

Some even countered and said, that would be really good because they deeply believe that their own father would have probably disowned them for bringing shame to the family name.

And when one of the guys mentioned their young age?

The women all laughed, 1 even said, ask ur 7 year old neighbour to open her panties, offer her money and see what happens. That kept him quiet. That kept me and the other guys quiet too.

To the women here, in their minds, a typical 8-10 year old asian girl has already been imbued with all the values to protect her dignity and that of her family by her own mother, her mother's mother, her father's mother and her long line of female relatives so much so it becomes part and parcel of her psyche.

But I understand why, because I too would be enraged if my own hypothetical daughter does it, I'd probably kick her mother and my own daughter out of my house for breaking my pride, defying my leadership as head of the family.

I have too much pride as a man.

But these are the values of Asians.

We make sure our children are empowered with knowledge and we also make sure they take ownership of their responsibilities.

Yes, children has responsibilities too.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?

Don't look down on them. Empower them with values so that they can better protect themselves. Make sure they take ownership of it. Do not sweep it under the carpet by simply pointing that this law and that law is broken, its too late by then. Don't be reactive, be proactive.

How many men here has daughters? I bet a few do.

And if you were to lead and train ur family-daughter into taking responsibility for their actions (as most Asian fathers do), you think its likely they would do as those girls did?

Probability would be extremely low. Even the son of God had Judas but that didn't stop him from teaching what's right and good.

Those of you who have Asian wife's or girlfriends, ask them to verify my story, they may come from different countries but the basics is the same.

There's no social security here, there's hardly any therapist for trouble minds, there's almost no old folks home and there's so many we don't have because we take care of each other, from cradle to grave.

Values.

Don't be a father that is leaderless because if u r then it's akin to her being fatherless.

Again I ask, do you really think 14 year olds are that stupid?
I think it's dope that wherever you live ("none of my business") there's such a strong sense of familial bonding that everyone is looking out for each other and that this sort of thing might be more easily prevented. That is something that is missing in the West, PARTICULARLY the US, you'll get no argument from me on that.

That doesn't change the fact that this happened in America, not somewhere in Asia or the Middle East or wherever. And it doesn't change the fact that Epstein was engaging in premeditated, sick, illegal behavior with minors. Maybe 14 year olds are legal adults where you live, I'm not sure.

It's irrelevant to what happened in the case. If you were Epstein's defense lawyer, is that what you would say in your closing statement, that this would never have happened in Asia?

As for your repeated question, which I thought was rhetorical: I don't think they're stupid, but they're not savvy, experienced, or possessing common sense on balance. Every individual is different.
 

samspade

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This is a good representation of our decadence. Well put.
Unfortunately it will fall on deaf ears and you will most likely be called a child molester or some other garbage.

This situation is representative of the social programming in the west. Complete elimination of individual responsibilities.

The alarming part is that some men are following socialistic indoctrinated women in this thread. I can see why they are this way but it doesn’t make it right.

Prostitution is against the law. Oh, never mind that.
Who’s more at fault, the rapist or the ten people on their phone watching while trying to call the police?

We are living in a sick society. There’s some here that aren’t worth the effort of reason.
There you go again. Anyone who disagrees with you is indoctrinated.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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This is what @Rollo Tomassi wants, huh? Sosuave members justifying why 14 year old girl deserved what they got from a pedophile?

Sosuave members declaring "there's no such thing as grooming, these were consenting children! Sex for money! They all knew what they were doing!"

Sosuave members declaring "I hate politicians and their lousy laws that protect the underage women, when these women full well know what they are doing! These 14 year old children aren't victims! They ate WILLING PARTICIPANTS!"

Yep, Rollo is totally on board with these sentiments.

Where the ƒuck are you getting this from?
 

apotheosis

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Shows that money/power doesn't help if you want sex for free - He had to outright pay all of the girls (even the 17-18 year olds) to bang him lol
 
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