She wants a second public date before coming to my place.

[EyeBRollin]

I'd personally recommend first date should be drinks near your place at a bar. After 1 or 2 drinks and proper framing and seduction, you try to get her back to your place with a plausible excuse. If she refuses, you gauge the refusal. If it's a hard No, then you're fvcked. If she seems conflicted then you end the date amicably and then the second date is drinks at your place.

Who still does bar dates? Bars aren’t even open here. It’s a pandemic.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I'm in Sydney. Bars have re-opened here. But when bars were closed it was even easier to get her back to mine under the illusion of Covid-safe drinks.

Not open where I am. There is a social contract. First “date” sex as an expectation leaves a lot of ass on the table.

 

[metalwater]

She doesn't want an illusion of courtship - this is a transactional, medieval mating strategy.

She wants 2 things:

1. She wants to feel highly attracted to you

2. She doesn't want to feel like a slvt for having fast sex with you (so you give her plausible deniability, as discussed).

High attraction isn't built by an illusion of courtship. That's supplicating to her frame.

I support this post.

OP, go on the second date. Have fun, unless you have a better offer for your time. No big deal.

For the overall discussion about girls interest level vs when she wants to or does fck. My experience for LTR from some that quickly wanted sex and others that I had to court or chase. Both types are interested in me. The ones that quickly wanted to fck, became more loyal LTR and only split because of my choice(by quick I mean same day as meeting). The ones that I chased, or waited for ended up not as good LTR and they ended up being the one to leave or do actions to cause a break. At the highest attraction level she does not feel like a slut, she feels like a winner and lucky. Will never see dual mate strat with this type, only the ones that have to be courted.

Apply red pill lense and it makes sense.

The entire topic of game maps directly into this. game is how to negotiate low interest.

If her interest level is super high, she will make it happen if you don't block her it will happen immediately or at the first opportunity. If her interest level is a little less you can game her and depending on skill and resources make it happen. gaming and courting are the exact same things. both are intentional actions to increase the interest level of the girl.

still have to be able to discern submission vs slut. slut is the one that will submit to others while transacting with you.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

@TheNewStyle123 I apologize. I got focused on conversations, without considering that it was all within your thread. I apologize if your thread feels overrun now. I apologize for my part. Hopefully your thread will get back on track, for you.

I am wishing you a good time on your next date and all that follows. I hope you will share how it goes for you.

Don’t even worry! This is all great advice on here. I’m not offended at all!

 

[derby1]

Thanks man! I’m with you. I agree, I think a girl who waits tends to usually be higher quality and an overall better lay.

No OP, please remind yourself its because she sees you as LTR

I lived with a Drug dealer back in my chaotic days, and rest assured. Non quality/Married/Quality

they all got the pants down within 1 hour

 

[manfrombelow]

No OP, please remind yourself its because she sees you as LTR

I lived with a Drug dealer back in my chaotic days, and rest assured. Non quality/Married/Quality

they all got the pants down within 1 hour

Why do men live with a woman, AT ALL???

 

[SW15]

Who still does bar dates? Bars aren’t even open here. It’s a pandemic.

It's difficult to early stage date without bars being some part of the equation. Some pick up in bars. Some either do swipe apps and non-bar cold approaching with bar dates to lead up to sex at home.

Women never split the bill with me, as I don’t allow it. I deal in reality. It is delusional to think guys will have consistent first or second sex by not taking women out on dates. I call bullshvt when I see it. You don’t have to take broads to Ruth Chris or McCormicks but they at least want the bare minimum illusion of courtship.

Social Contracts are for Betas. I don't mean this in a disparaging way, man. But if you're following Social Contracts and fake rules that women make then it's going to reduce your success. It's all a sh!t test.

Lifetime, most women have gotten free first dates out of me. If I don't pay, I have close to a 0 chance of a second date since the competition is fierce in my city and the next guy will. While I'd like to agree with the idea of social contracts and deal with the bigger issues, I'm trying to deal with practical considerations. There have been numerous times I've footed the bill on first and early stage dates for women with a higher annual salary than I had at the moment of that date. While I think that is complete horse poop, I have to deal with it.

I eliminated dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex as a result of finding Manosphere content in the early 2010s. That help reduce my costs per date. However, even some drinks alone dates can get expensive.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Social Contracts are for Betas. I don't mean this in a disparaging way, man. But if you're following Social Contracts and fake rules that women make then it's going to reduce your success. It's all a sh!t test.

No. You’re flat out wrong on this.

 

[EyeBRollin]

“Normal” women want sex in the car on a 2nd date?

Can’t make this shvt up.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

It's difficult to early stage date without bars being some part of the equation. Some pick up in bars. Some either do swipe apps and non-bar cold approaching with bar dates to lead up to sex at home.






Lifetime, most women have gotten free first dates out of me. If I don't pay, I have close to a 0 chance of a second date since the competition is fierce in my city and the next guy will. While I'd like to agree with the idea of social contracts and deal with the bigger issues, I'm trying to deal with practical considerations. There have been numerous times I've footed the bill on first and early stage dates for women with a higher annual salary than I had at the moment of that date. While I think that is complete horse poop, I have to deal with it.

I eliminated dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex as a result of finding Manosphere content in the early 2010s. That help reduce my costs per date. However, even some drinks alone dates can get expensive.

I'm with ya man! This woman DEFINITELY makes more than I do, yet if I don't pick up the check at this 2nd date (again, not planning more than a drink or two or appetizer) I could see that working against me with plenty of competition that would pay. I love the double standard though. Women making close to, the same, or even more than men and us still being the 'chivalrous' one who is 'supposed' to pay for the drink.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Sex in a car is a fantasy every girl has.

Not with a stranger.

 

[Black Widow Void]

As usual, a lot of these replies are from folks that recite things that they've read --- rather than speaking from their own experiences.

Is this a hook up girl or someone that you might consider seeing? (no reply necessary to this question, I bring it up for a reason).
You already know the answer to this and it's likely that she has an idea about your motives too.

If she perceives that you view her as higher caliber, then she's going to project a "higher value" image to you. Actually, we do the exact same thing toward women (we also don't want to be perceived as push overs).

There's nothing wrong with making an attempt to invite her over to your place. And, there's also nothing wrong with her declining this at this juncture. It all boils down to the amount of investment you wish to put into her. If she's a hook up only, then maybe cut ties... if she's potential dating material, then it's not unreasonable to give her a little wiggle room.

You met her for just one drink; which sort of sounds more like a "preliminary date." Judging from what you've written, it doesn't appear that she's digging deep into your pockets. I'm sure that you already have an idea if she's an "operator" or not. If she checks off enough boxes, give it a shot. If you see too many red flags, then move on to the next.

 

[derby1]

Why do men live with a woman, AT ALL???

I think we have crossed wires, women used to come to our male populated house. They didn't live with us,

My point was, it red pilled me to the hill. I used to think women were sugar & spice all things nice

Women from all walks of life, would pull there pants down real quick. then go out that very night and play the "precious lady" card.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

Tell her you aren't interested in dating

 

[EyeBRollin]

you dont trigger raw physical attraction, hence your old school courtship model. Whatever works for you, ultimately.

There is no “courtship” without “raw physical attraction.”

 

[EyeBRollin]

Ok, you're just being argumentative now.

Don’t get personal.

 

[TheNewStyle123]

As usual, a lot of these replies are from folks that recite things that they've read --- rather than speaking from their own experiences.

Is this a hook up girl or someone that you might consider seeing? (no reply necessary to this question, I bring it up for a reason).
You already know the answer to this and it's likely that she has an idea about your motives too.

If she perceives that you view her as higher caliber, then she's going to project a "higher value" image to you. Actually, we do the exact same thing toward women (we also don't want to be perceived as push overs).

There's nothing wrong with making an attempt to invite her over to your place. And, there's also nothing wrong with her declining this at this juncture. It all boils down to the amount of investment you wish to put into her. If she's a hook up only, then maybe cut ties... if she's potential dating material, then it's not unreasonable to give her a little wiggle room.

You met her for just one drink; which sort of sounds more like a "preliminary date." Judging from what you've written, it doesn't appear that she's digging deep into your pockets. I'm sure that you already have an idea if she's an "operator" or not. If she checks off enough boxes, give it a shot. If you see too many red flags, then move on to the next.

Great advice man thank you! I definitely just see her as plate material (still not ready to date yet following the divorce), but she seems worth a little more effort. I can understand from her perspective why she would want to come off as not "easy" and "higher caliber" to project off of the LTR material vibe I was putting out.

I think a little more time/money investment for another date isn't a bad deal, especially because I genuinely enjoy her company and I'm standing by the fact that her IL is high.

Thanks man!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What's up guys.

Went on a date yesterday to a local spot with a new girl. Date went really well - we each got one drink and she even offered to split the bill (I thanked her but paid the bill, after all it was only one drink). We then went for a walk, I initiated kino for most of the date, conversation was good, and we ended up making out a few times during the remainder of the date.

I invited her to my place this Wednesday night for dinner (and she would bring us some wine). I have not had a girl yet that I have met in person want to meet up a second time prior coming to my place, but this girl asked if we could meet up again in a public setting prior to coming to my apartment. She said it's not that she "doesn't feel comfortable", but "it's just not something I usually do on date #2, I would like to get to know you a little bit better if that's ok."

IL seemed very high on the date and still does, I am just not sure if this is a characteristic of a more quality girl vs. what I have been used to from OLD (some have come to my place either on the first date, or most have come to my place for a second date after getting a drink or coffee first).

Definitely interested in seeing her again though. HB 7.5, really sweet, great conversation, similar interests, well put together, etc. My plan is to meet up with her again in person this Wednesday for another drink. This time, if/when she offers to split the bill I will accept.

What do you guys think?

I've stopped trying to invite women over on date 2 unless it's during the date where we are already out somewhere. Then I will invite them back for a drink after we have left the place we were at...sometimes they go for it and sometimes they don't. Usually don't bang them in this situation but they always come back for date 3 and have dinner which sex is pretty much a given.

Had too many flakes when employing this rather than an outside date 2. Never had a flake on a date 3 dinner invite.

A woman may see you as either too hungry for sex or may not feel comfortable with it yet on date 2 because she knows what the invite is for(aka banging her)

Now I just wait for date 3 and as a rule it works really well for me.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This is wrong. Women pay because they don't want to feel obligated to have sex with a guy. Women talk about this alllll the time in their Dolly Magazines write-ins.

Women often talk about when a guy pays for her date, then he expects sex (like a covert contract). It's more likely that this Woman is just looking for a guy she's highly attracted to, and doesn't want to feel guilty about using guys for a free lunch.

The problem is you take what happens in some cases and then generalize it to ALL cases. It would be like if you said the only reason people get in car accidents is because they drive drunk.

That is A reason they get in car accidents but not the ONLY reason.

Back to your point...you will KNOW if a woman is paying for something because she isn't interested...it has happened to me several times. It was obvious she wasn't interested. A woman offering to pay half while making out with you isn't doing it because she isn't interested.

Almost all of my LTRs involved women that would always contribute to things whether I paid one time and they paid the next or they paid for tickets to an event and I paid for the meal before, etc...

I banged them multiple times a night 2-3 times a week for over a year but according to you it's because they had no interest?

C'mon man. Do better. Stop trying to take a single instance of why a woman might do something and trying to generalize that any time she does it it must mean the same thing. It doesn't. Literally nothing in life works like that.

 

[Lookatu]

The problem is you take what happens in some cases and then generalize it to ALL cases.

Pot calling the kettle black... Isn't this what you do when it comes to OLD? You're a "6" so if you can get women and get laid, so can anyone else. LOL