She said yes to drinks but set a time limit. Red flag?

[Gamisch]

This is why you screen

What you mean?

 

[Sega Genesis]

What are your thoughts on this?

Sounds to me based on your post that she simply lost interest somewhere along the way...

Who knows why, perhaps the energy/chemistry was off (nothing to do with your looks or status contrary to what some members here believe).

Or even the way you answered questions .

She simply wasn't 'feelin it.'

Were you? Other than you found her attractive physically which is not not genuine energy/chemistry happening between two human beings.

LMS are superficial and many women (not all obviously) need something beyond that.

This is the most likely explanation but again who knows it could be anything.

On to the next one

Agree with this^^...

 

[Bigpapa]

What are your thoughts on this?

she is not emotional available, that is what happened

Initially she liked the idea of finding a guy like you, but then she actually realized that she will have to be vulnerable and chose not to be vulnerable because you might hurt her or something

also “ my ex went to therapy bla bla bla “ could easily have been about her, just that she had too much of an ego to be transparent with you. That is why she projected the “ do you go to therapy bla bla “ questions on you

I think that you overall played things well, just that you showed you are too much boyfriend material and this spook the girl who was not emotional available and afraid of being vulnerable

if you would have focused more on the lover side of things, most likely things would have been towards more what you thought will happen

I think that going forward, when you hear about recent brakeups and stuff like that, you should by default switch more on the lover side rather than being this cool guy that for sure looks like a potential great boyfriend

basically being more sexual than at creating rapport

 

[Sega Genesis]

I wasn't expecting sex, so much so that I didn't force it, but at least a “thank you” would have been nice.

I agree, her not at least thanking you (you did pay for everything after all) was incredibly rude..

Says a lot about a person imo.. Nothing good.

Next!

 

[holidayad_]

Who knows why, perhaps the energy/chemistry was off (nothing to do with your looks or status contrary to what some members here believe).

She was really engaged on the date. Laughing, asking questions. I don’t think it was an issue of energy/chemistry.

I guess that she didn’t plan for it to be a romantic or sexual night. When she chose to sit across from me instead of next to me, that was the first sign that crossed my mind.

She simply wasn't 'feelin it.'

Were you?

Yeah. It was a fun night.

 

[holidayad_]

she is not emotional available, that is what happened

Initially she liked the idea of finding a guy like you, but then she actually realized that she will have to be vulnerable and chose not to be vulnerable because you might hurt her or something

also “ my ex went to therapy bla bla bla “ could easily have been about her, just that she had too much of an ego to be transparent with you. That is why she projected the “ do you go to therapy bla bla “ questions on you

I think that you overall played things well, just that you showed you are too much boyfriend material and this spook the girl who was not emotional available and afraid of being vulnerable

if you would have focused more on the lover side of things, most likely things would have been towards more what you thought will happen

I think that going forward, when you hear about recent brakeups and stuff like that, you should by default switch more on the lover side rather than being this cool guy that for sure looks like a potential great boyfriend

basically being more sexual than at creating rapport

That makes sense.

I tried to lean into the sensual side, touching her hands, her waist. I even teased her with my “gift” for reading palms while tracing her hand.

My guess is she set a boundary for herself and wasn’t willing to cross that line that night. Or maybe she just came out to have some free drinks...

Hard to say.

 

[Bigpapa]

I guess that she didn’t plan for it to be a romantic or sexual night. When she chose to sit across from me instead of next to me, that was the first sign that crossed my mind.

Normal behavior, especially since she basically has told you to ask her out

That was her way of putting a bit of hold on the dynamic so she does not lose control of her frame

 

[Bigpapa]

That makes sense.

I tried to lean into the sensual side, touching her hands, her waist. I even teased her with my “gift” for reading palms while tracing her hand.

My guess is she set a boundary for herself and wasn’t willing to cross that line that night. Or maybe she just came out to have some free drinks...

Hard to say.

that is not lover vibe, still potential boyfriend vibe

lover vibe means that you use sex talk, grab her by the ass, etc . Basically sexualizing the whole date

the over is the guy who basically builds enough rapport and then all the time sexualizes the discussion

more or less like how night game is, you talk just enough to have a bit a rapport and show that you are not a weirdo and then it is escalation mainly

 

[Sega Genesis]

I guess that she didn’t plan for it to be a romantic or sexual night. When she chose to sit across from me instead of next to me, that was the first sign that crossed my mind.

Were you giving off those vibes? That you wanted it to end sexually?

The reason why I thought it was energy/chemistry and her not feelin it was cause of this:

As we stepped outside, I offered to share the ride with her. She declined, saying she would call her own.

A few minutes later her driver canceled. I offered again, framed it as “making sure you get home safe.” She declined, firm but polite. After that the mood shifted. She went from talkative to quiet while we waited. Energy dropped.

The final kiss matched the vibe. Quick, polite peck.

This^^ combined with her not thanking you or reaching out the following day to thank you indicates (to me and having been in her shoes several times) she just wasn't feelin it..

A woman who was feelin it would never behave this way ... no way.

Jmo but again it could be anything!

This is so common especially first meets!

I wouldn't waste time or energy trying to figure it out, you never will!

Just on to the next. Sorry man.

 

[holidayad_]

This^^ combined with her not thanking you or reaching out the following day to thank you indicates (to me and having been in her shoes several times) she just wasn't feelin it..

A woman who was feelin it would never behave this way ... no way.

When you were in her shoes, what was behind that behavior?

 

[Bigpapa]

This^^ combined with her not thanking you or reaching out the following day to thank you indicates (to me and having been in her shoes several times) she just wasn't feelin it..

if that would have been the case, they would not have kissed

women do not put themselves in the position of a guy attempting to kiss them without attraction

she was attracted to him, just that she she was not emotional available for things to go forward due to his vibe of cool guy that she could have a relationship with

and the red flag was the therapy discussion, no woman talks about guys going to therapy, especially “ weak, jealous guys like her ex “. Most likely she was the one going to therapy, which means that she did not processed the brakeup properly

actually no women that processed the brakeup properly do not casually mention their ex. Same with guys, no one casually mentions their ex unless they still think about their ex

since she most likely didn’t process the brakeup, she might even see from time to time her ex, which would prolong even more the healing period

With women going through traumas and stuff like that, the only thing that works is sexual vibe, but the trick with it is not to like her too much otherwise you will be drawn into an emotional spiral that might **** you up

so if you ask me, down the line I think it is best that it happened like this, as the OP looks like he really liked the girl a lot

 

[Sega Genesis]

>>My guess is she set a boundary for herself and wasn’t willing to cross that line that night. <<

IF this^^ were the case, she would have thanked you, not been quite so shut down and closed at the end and would have reached out the following day to thank you... or used that as an excuse to reach out, given her rather chilly behavior at the end of the date.

It just doesn't line up with how an interested woman behaves...

 

[Sega Genesis]

When you were in her shoes, what was behind that behavior?

Lack of chemistry/lack of interest and not wanting to lead him to believe otherwise.

I would have at least thanked him though. The fact she didn't speaks volumes and again was just plain rude.

I'm not saying she didn't have a good time but again it appears that something did change for her as the date progressed, again it could be anything.

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

Hopefully she's not your only option?

 

[holidayad_]

Why is this so hard for you to accept?

This is a forum for discussion. And I am trying to understand this woman's behavior.

 

[Sega Genesis]

that would have been the case, they would not have kissed

Oh come on. That first kiss could have been her going through the motions and testing the chemistry, her feelz.

The second kiss was a dud...a total fail!

Along with the rest of her behavior towards and at the end.

Look jmo, I'm not the be-all-end-all of how all women behave and react.

@holidayad_ why not give her a call or text? Ask if she got home okay and if she'd like to go out again?

Her response will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[Bigpapa]

unless he is a bad kisser, which I assumed he is not, I never heard about a girl to change her mind solely on the kiss itself. It was always other stuff

@holidayad_ do not beat yourself too much around it, it is part of the game to deal with interested girls but for whatever reason to not be available for what you would have want

I for example was like 1 week ago to a date that I had crazy intellectual chemistry with … just that I was enjoying it so much that I did not escalate

I figured out only after I ended the date with her that what I felt it was an amazing date, was actually a fiasco

then the next day the dreaded “ you are super cool guy, but I did not feel the spark “

Sh1t like this happens even to the vets, much easier to game girls that you do not really like or is not really real chemistry than girls that you actually like

again, in your case you did not really do anything wrong, just bad luck and like I said, it is normal for this to happen from time to time. Part of the circle of life

I also think that you try to learn from the bad things, shows that you are serious about improving your game, but from experience usually the simplest explication is usually the one closest to reality

the kiss created a tension in her, which she realized only when leaving that she has done something “wrong” and that is why she became very firm about not wanting to give her a ride and stuff like that because she did not wanted to be put in the situation of repeating th

Usually when this happens it means that the woman is emotionally invested in another guy

for sure she was not expecting that you will make a move on her ( that was the point of her putting a time limit to the date - so you do not have time to make a move ) , and that is why I say that you had a good game that you turned a guarded women to kiss you. Congrats for that, your game looks like it is good enough to pass first base

I know that very likely this is not really what you wanted to hear, but sometimes you just have bad luck

if you really like the girl, you can message her on instagram and be transparent and with no hopes. You keep the door open to her if she wants to come at some point in her life

“ I had a really good time with you. I understand that the timing might not be right for you, but i think it would be a shame for both of us not to meet again when the timing will be better. Take care till then “

something like that, and then you have to forget about her and never message her till she does not come back willingly

 

[holidayad_]

unless he is a bad kisser, which I assumed he is not, I never heard about a girl to change her mind solely on the kiss itself. It was always other stuff

@holidayad_ do not beat yourself too much around it, it is part of the game to deal with interested girls but for whatever reason to not be available for what you would have want

I for example was like 1 week ago to a date that I had crazy intellectual chemistry with … just that I was enjoying it so much that I did not escalate

I figured out only after I ended the date with her that what I felt it was an amazing date, was actually a fiasco

then the next day the dreaded “ you are super cool guy, but I did not feel the spark “

Sh1t like this happens even to the vets, much easier to game girls that you do not really like or is not really real chemistry than girls that you actually like

again, in your case you did not really do anything wrong, just bad luck and like I said, it is normal for this to happen from time to time. Part of the circle of life

I also think that you try to learn from the bad things, shows that you are serious about improving your game, but from experience usually the simplest explication is usually the one closest to reality

the kiss created a tension in her, which she realized only when leaving that she has done something “wrong” and that is why she became very firm about not wanting to give her a ride and stuff like that because she did not wanted to be put in the situation of repeating th

Usually when this happens it means that the woman is emotionally invested in another guy

for sure she was not expecting that you will make a move on her ( that was the point of her putting a time limit to the date - so you do not have time to make a move ) , and that is why I say that you had a good game that you turned a guarded women to kiss you. Congrats for that, your game looks like it is good enough to pass first base

I know that very likely this is not really what you wanted to hear, but sometimes you just have bad luck

That's an excellent insight. I appreciate that.

I think it's a good discussion here, with a lot to learn and reflect on.

And, as you said, something similar happened to you.

This may indicate a pattern of behavior in women who show high interest but, for some reason, back off.

if you really like the girl, you can message her on instagram and be transparent and with no hopes. You keep the door open to her if she wants to come at some point in her life

“ I had a really good time with you. I understand that the timing might not be right for you, but i think it would be a shame for both of us not to meet again when the timing will be better. Take care till then “

something like that, and then you have to forget about her and never message her till she does not come back willingly

Honestly, I don't think I'll do that.

I'm a fan of the idea of not being the first to initiate contact after the first date, and letting things happen (or not happen) for 5-9 days.

 

[Bigpapa]

That's an excellent insight. I appreciate that.

I think it's a good discussion here, with a lot to learn and reflect on.

And, as you said, something similar happened to you.

This may indicate a pattern of behavior in women who show high interest but, for some reason, back off.




Honestly, I don't think I'll do that.

I'm a fan of the idea of not being the first to initiate contact after the first date, and letting things happen for 5-9 days.

Give things space to happen (or not happen).

look man, if she was awkward when you guys split ways it means that for sure from her end the door has closed, mainly because she feels weird about opening a subject about a thing she has done

in these type of situations, you need to be emphatic and help her not to have the door closed

it would be also weird for you to write after a couple of days about this incident

these type of things have to be done very fast in order to be effective. You play it as you think is best

in terms of women and their emotional availability, yes… unfortunately it it is an issue and most likely this is a big reason on why relationship quality women become fewer and fewer

don’t take me wrong, women back in the days had the same issues like the women now, just that till 1-2 generations ago they were not as entitled as they are now. Entitlement makes you even less likely to actually recover from bad things happening to you

guys are just as guilty of this as women are, just that on guys it mainly affects the ones who are not successful with women and become bitter, jaded or total simps and accept all the sh1t that women throw at them. Neither option yield good results medium and long term

 

[Sega Genesis]

unless he is a bad kisser, which I assumed he is not, I never heard about a girl to change her solely on the kiss itself. It was always other stuff

^^I never said she lost interest or changed her mind based solely on the kiss.

And yes it may have been other stuff or maybe it was nothing at all - nothing he did or said; for whatever reason it just wasn't happening for her.

There doesn't always have to be a specific reason, we're either feelin it or we're not.

That said...

@holidayad_ you can answer this, how was that first kiss?

Did you sense she was feelin it, into it? Were you?

How long did it last and who pulled away first?

It's virtually impossible to know where or why things went sideways, first meets can be so precarious and things can literally change on a dime!

Typically I do wait for a man to reach out after the first meet or date when HE is interested...

However in this case given her low vibe towards the end, the lackluster second/final kiss and her not thanking you, I think she was sending the message that she just wasn't feelin it. That elusive 'spark.'

And the ball is in her court.

Again JMO; I could be totally wrong!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

No matter what you say to the below, it’s all good. Guys are going to learn from this. Thanks in advance for answering.

How long ago was this?

What day of the week?

What was your answer when she said you disappeared?

What was your answer when she said you owed her a date?

Who paid for the drinks?

Who was asking who about casual sex?

Who asked about relationships?

What was your tease back?

What was the kiss like?

Any next steps?

Any dialogue sknce

Moving ahead, drinks should be had at the bar itself. You can sit next to each other, you end up touching quite a bit, and you have an outlet in the bartender to develop social interaction.

One of the easiest tells you'll get as a guy is if you are sitting at the bar and after she initially is facing the bar she turns and begins facing you...subtle but almost always correct strong green light.