Second girl enters the scene

[Die Hard]

Things are getting more complicated @ work... I had decided to finally make a move on that girl from work next Tuesday (see http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=167822) but last week a new one has entered the scene and she works in the same team as the other one! (I'll call the new one HB8 and the first one HB8.5)

I had met HB8 a few times earlier but only briefly, last Friday was the first time we had much interaction. I noticed quite some IOI's from her and we flirted a lot. Things went pretty smooth and I feel like I've made as much progress with her in one day of working together as I've made with HB8.5 in 5 or 6 days of working together! Of course that probably has to do with me becoming more comfortable at 'the game' over the last few weeks. I held back a lot with HB8.5 in the beginning and only started to make more progres with her when I found this forum and decided to change my ways...

Anyway, I feel like I might ask HB8 out pretty soon too! (I just want to establish some more kino with her before asking her out, just like I did with HB8.5) But you guys probably know what my dilemma is now... They both work on the same team and whoever I make a move on first, the other one is surely gonna find out and feel passed. Once I go for one, I really think I'll lose my chances with the other... But I don't know which one to choose! The HB8.5 is just a bit better looking than the HB8 but the HB8 seems to be more outgoing, more fun. In the end, they both look good and they're both fun...

So right now, I think I should just ask someone out as soon as a good situation to do so presents itself. The one who happens to be in such a situation with me first, will be the winner lol.

BUT... that's just my thought as a beginner DJ. I'd love to hear your thoughts about this situation, guys!

 

[catman]

Dont date people you work with period!!! When it ends its gunna be ugly!!!:nono:

 

[Die Hard]

Thanks for the warning, I do agree. However, I can afford it in my situation. I work at different teams all the time but am looking for a permanent assignment to one team and I already know it's not gonna be this team . Funny enough, they have both asked me (on seperate occasions) to try to get a permanent position on their team haha! When I had this conversation with the HB8, I told her I was actually planning to apply for a permanent position on another team. She responded (in a very serious, almost commanding tone of voice!!): "I wouldn't do that..." So I said "Oh..why?" and she replied: "Because then we would have to do without you.." Can't help to think that she really meant "because then I would have to do without you.."

 

[catman]

Thanks for the warning, I do agree. However, I can afford it in my situation. I work at different teams all the time but am looking for a permanent assignment to one team and I already know it's not gonna be this team . Funny enough, they have both asked me (on seperate occasions) to try to get a permanent position on their team haha! When I had this conversation with the HB8, I told her I was actually planning to apply for a permanent position on another team. She responded (in a very serious, almost commanding tone of voice!!): "I wouldn't do that..." So I said "Oh..why?" and she replied: "Because then we would have to do without you.." Can't help to think that she really meant "because then I would have to do without you.."

Your not getting my point and what difference does it make which team your on? Either way when it goes sour you have to look at her and deal with her then what?Then you switch teams again and then that one goes sour then what?I was married for 13 years and theres no way i wanted my wife or girlfriend working at the same place i worked.You need time apart from them or you will be at each others throat.Im not a master dj but this is just common sense.Yes im sure each one does want you on their team like your thinking but women atleast most have no common sense? U get what im saying now? Also on the rare chance that it does work out between one of them with all the layoffs do you think its wise for both of you to be working for the same company?Dont ever put all your eggs in one basket might have to rely on the others income when times get tough u know?????

 

[Die Hard]

I do get your point lol! But different team = different building = not seeing each other :rock:. So when it goes sour, I don't have to look at her!

 

[Die Hard]

F*ck, I haven't worked with either HB for 3 weeks! Finally had meaningful contact with one of them again today, it was the HB8 (which is the "second girl" from the thread title).

We had to interact quite a few moments during this day and I was really focussed on getting closer to her. She didn't seem too responsive most of the day but near the end of the day she suddenly started to respond to me . I kept making flirt attempts throughout our interaction and she started to respond more and more. Eventually we ended up in that typical situation where every bit of your interaction is part of the flirting game. But it was all talking, facial expressions etc... no kino. Eventually I got up coz I had to catch my bus and walked over to her to finish up the conversation with some kino after all. She was sitting behind a desk, doing stuff on internet, I was standing next to her. I talked some more and then said: "Hey, I have to go". Her hand was resting on the mouse so while I said this, I put my hand on hers for a second. I did it really determined: not a few fingers but my whole hand on hers, not briefly touching it but really letting the full weight of my hand rest on her hand before removing it again. I then said goodbye and we both wished each other a nice Christmas and stuff. At that moment of saying goodbye (right after the kino) her face was as happy as it could be, biggest smile ever and eyes shining bright! I love myself for the way I handled things today! I'm pretty sure I'll see her next week and I will consider myself a failure if I don't get her number then!

 

[jophil28]

You put your hand on her mouse and she smiled ?
Post back when you put your hand on her pvssy cat and she shrieks with delight .

 

[Die Hard]

Will do!

 

[Die Hard]

Finally got to work with "second girl" again yesterday (been since Christmas Eve since I worked with her). Things were ambiguous...

Until now I never mentioned this in my posts, but she's in sort of a relationship. The guy lives quite far away, though, so they don't see each other that much. When I found out about it, I convinced myself it wasn't a big deal. How serious can a long distance relationship be? Besides, the way things were going between her and me at the time, I was convinced that she would forget about him soon once her and me would become closer.

So yesterday I found out that she was going to him this week (or next week, don't remember) for three days. Also I got some indications (not conclusive though) that she's going on a holiday with him soon. When I heard this stuff, my initial happiness (because we finally got to work together again, so we could pick up where we left off and perhaps I'd ask her out this day or something) instantly turned into a feeling of "screw you, I'm not interested anymore". Of course the chemistry between her and me was there again, it's kinda inescapable: our eyes can't seem to evade each other and when we talk we can't escape the automatic reaction of smiling to each other (even when the subject of the converstaion is serious haha). The attraction is just there... But I sort of tried to keep my distance from her and just didn't want to feel happy about having contact with her. I don't wanna enjoy her too much, I already had to fight off one-itis over her shortly after our last encounter. I'm vulnerable to her, I know it. And given the fact that she's already in a relationship (even though it's long distance and I might be able to steal her away from him), I really don't want her to crawl under my skin.

So at a lot of moments during the day, I intentionally acted like she meant nothing to me. I didn't respond positively whenever she flirted with me, I sort of neglected it. Other moments I did make jokes with her and stuff, because if my behaviour was too obviously negative towards her, she'd probably draw the conclusion that I was dissapointed over her being in a relationship. Blegh... In the end, my negative behaviour towards her only stimulated her attraction to me, I guess.. I was trying to keep my distance from her because I don't want to get "attached" to her, but practically that means showing the same behaviour as when you play 'hard to get', and that's the effect it had on her.

So eventually the day was over and I went home, not really knowing how to feel about everything. In my mind, I'd basically given up on her. I'm not gonna compete over a girl: if she has a boyfriend, I'm done with her. Doesn't matter if the relationship is long distance and therefor offers openings for me to get in between them. So during the rest of the day these were my thoughts about it and I kinda tried to accept that this 'project' was over. Which sucks because I really liked this girl and there's a lot of mutual attraction but hey, it's better this way. Then today, I woke up and checked my emails and stuff. There was a notification that she added me on facebook, time: right after she got home from work. So obviously I got into her head... I mean, she doesn't even know my last name (which is foreign and too weird for her to remember even if she would've heard it several times before), so that means she has specifically looked it up in order to find and add me on facebook. Combined with the fact that it was the first thing she did after coming home from work...yeah, she definitely is interested in me. She also added a little message with the request to add me, of course the message contained a question, trying to start up a conversation with me... I replied and made sure to add a question in my reply as well...

So now what? I'm trying to put things in perspective and make up my mind. Here's what I decided: I will consider her a lost case. My basic assumption will remain that she's unavailable to me and that she would not respond postively if I'd make move on her. She's already taken at that's that, THE END. I'm not gonna keep up any hopes and try to win her over. So how do I act towards her when we work again and how do I act to her on facebook? I guess it's impossible to totally neglect her and what's going on between us. The attraction is there, I can't act like it's not and if I would do so, she'd notice me evading her and probably only pursue me more. It's not really possible to leave the whole situation behind me and not be bothered by it. I guess the best thing for me to do is just keep telling myself I need to stay in control of the frame. As long as I control the frame, as long as she's chasing me instead of me chasing her, I should be able to prevent myself from getting drawn into her. I'm kinda afraid that I will keep liking her and probably start liking her more and more as our contact continues. Hopefully I can prevent that from happening by reminding myself constantly that I have to stay in control of the frame no matter what. And of course I'll focus on other girls (how nice that there's still the "first girl" who works on the same department!)

To be continued...

 

[jophil28]

Finally got to work with "second girl" again yesterday (been since Christmas Eve since I worked with her). Things were ambiguous...

Until now I never mentioned this in my posts, but she's in sort of a relationship. The guy lives quite far away, though, so they don't see each other that much. When I found out about it, I convinced myself it wasn't a big deal. How serious can a long distance relationship be? Besides, the way things were going between her and me at the time, I was convinced that she would forget about him soon once her and me would become closer.

So yesterday I found out that she was going to him this week (or next week, don't remember) for three days. Also I got some indications (not conclusive though) that she's going on a holiday with him soon. When I heard this stuff, my initial happiness (because we finally got to work together again, so we could pick up where we left off and perhaps I'd ask her out this day or something) instantly turned into a feeling of "screw you, I'm not interested anymore". Of course the chemistry between her and me was there again, it's kinda inescapable: our eyes can't seem to evade each other and when we talk we can't escape the automatic reaction of smiling to each other (even when the subject of the converstaion is serious haha). The attraction is just there... But I sort of tried to keep my distance from her and just didn't want to feel happy about having contact with her. I don't wanna enjoy her too much, I already had to fight off one-itis over her shortly after our last encounter. I'm vulnerable to her, I know it. And given the fact that she's already in a relationship (even though it's long distance and I might be able to steal her away from him), I really don't want her to crawl under my skin.

So at a lot of moments during the day, I intentionally acted like she meant nothing to me. I didn't respond positively whenever she flirted with me, I sort of neglected it. Other moments I did make jokes with her and stuff, because if my behaviour was too obviously negative towards her, she'd probably draw the conclusion that I was dissapointed over her being in a relationship. Blegh... In the end, my negative behaviour towards her only stimulated her attraction to me, I guess.. I was trying to keep my distance from her because I don't want to get "attached" to her, but practically that means showing the same behaviour as when you play 'hard to get', and that's the effect it had on her.

So eventually the day was over and I went home, not really knowing how to feel about everything. In my mind, I'd basically given up on her. I'm not gonna compete over a girl: if she has a boyfriend, I'm done with her. Doesn't matter if the relationship is long distance and therefor offers openings for me to get in between them. So during the rest of the day these were my thoughts about it and I kinda tried to accept that this 'project' was over. Which sucks because I really liked this girl and there's a lot of mutual attraction but hey, it's better this way. Then today, I woke up and checked my emails and stuff. There was a notification that she added me on facebook, time: right after she got home from work. So obviously I got into her head... I mean, she doesn't even know my last name (which is foreign and too weird for her to remember even if she would've heard it several times before), so that means she has specifically looked it up in order to find and add me on facebook. Combined with the fact that it was the first thing she did after coming home from work...yeah, she definitely is interested in me. She also added a little message with the request to add me, of course the message contained a question, trying to start up a conversation with me... I replied and made sure to add a question in my reply as well...

So now what? I'm trying to put things in perspective and make up my mind. Here's what I decided: I will consider her a lost case. My basic assumption will remain that she's unavailable to me and that she would not respond postively if I'd make move on her. She's already taken at that's that, THE END. I'm not gonna keep up any hopes and try to win her over. So how do I act towards her when we work again and how do I act to her on facebook? I guess it's impossible to totally neglect her and what's going on between us. The attraction is there, I can't act like it's not and if I would do so, she'd notice me evading her and probably only pursue me more. It's not really possible to leave the whole situation behind me and not be bothered by it. I guess the best thing for me to do is just keep telling myself I need to stay in control of the frame. As long as I control the frame, as long as she's chasing me instead of me chasing her, I should be able to prevent myself from getting drawn into her. I'm kinda afraid that I will keep liking her and probably start liking her more and more as our contact continues. Hopefully I can prevent that from happening by reminding myself constantly that I have to stay in control of the frame no matter what. And of course I'll focus on other girls (how nice that there's still the "first girl" who works on the same department!)

To be continued...

Did you get any work done amongst all this agony and handwringing ?

 

[Die Hard]

I let her do most of the work And next time I'll let her do a bl0wjob on me as well!

 

[Tazman]

I think if you've already established that a particular chick likes you, you should ask her out asap. Going in by calculating how much kino to give, planned reactions, etc is a waste of time.

I'd simply get it out of the way because drawing these things out will make you obsess over it and it will play out through your behavior. You want things to be as natural as possible, not forced.

 

[Sinistar]

I say ask them both out because neither one is going to go out with you and then you'll have your answer.

Everyone here can tell from your posts (basically the sheer quantity, the amount of detail and your beta frame speak) that you are way to friendly and fear rejection too much so you're now dating them "by proxy" - that meaning you don't dare ask them out so you're spending time fantasizing, plotting and wondering about them. Meanwhile, they are going home to perfectly normal lives that involve guys who actually dare to ask them out. If they did wonder about you, it was for those first few minutes or hours. But fast forward several weeks and you now the Nice guy who's just too afraid to say anything.

I've tried the dating thing at past jobs - always ended awkwardly - I was way to inexperienced then and didn't realize the attitude required to pull this off. I just don't advise it - but you're not gonna listen because you have oneitis - having oneitis makes it impossible to hear this overwhelming advice until you're actually been rejected. So I say get rejected. I dare you to ask you either one of them before Valentine's Day.

But you won't. You're still waiting for the right moment. Waiting for the risk to be the lowest possible. Trying to avoid rejection with the fantasy that one will throw herself at you or drop a really obvious hint.

Action, not words. Next report should be "We went out on a date...." or "She declined because she..."

ps. The reason you're barfing out all this theory and speculation is that you are totally AFC and have oneitis. When that happens men basically turn into women and shift into emotional based responses over our default logical thinking. Sure, you'll tell yourself and all of us that all your posting is logic, good strategy, etc. But in the end, writing these posts are your only way to "experience" these women w/o risk and hurtful emotions. While you've got them on pedestals in fantasy land, they barely know you exist and will give you some attention when there's no Alpha's around. Isn't it great being their new girlfriend.

 

[Die Hard]

Tazman, did you fully read my post about this latest encounter with her? Because your response implies that you didn't..

 

[Die Hard]

I guess you're right, Sinistar. I'm a fucking fag and I'm on the wrong track lately. Things just haven't been to great for me lately, I mean life in general...I've been a little depressed and it definitely affects my confidence with women. But that's still just an excuse, I guess... (things are going back upwards again, by the way!)

Anyway, I do have one question: Does the fact that "second girl" is already involved with someone make any difference? I should just go for it and ask her out anyway? Because it just makes me feel like she's in control... You know how many chicks who are already involved with someone love to get attention and play the game with other guys. They just enjoy the flirting, the mutual attraction and the tension, but when the guy wants to take it a step further, they're like: "Uh uh, I'm already involved with someone!". I just hate that and I'm usually inclined to forget about a girl if this scenario pops up in my head. I think when a man is interested in a woman who's already involved with someone else, she controls the frame by default... It's like she's in a position of "I'm already seeing someone, therefor I'm satisfied already and don't really need anyone else. However, you have no one, so you need me more than I need you." And that is the truth, I'm not seeing anyone right now but she does, and I feel like she already controls the frame because of that. It makes me feel like there's a disbalance, just like when you are quick to respond to her emails while she waits days before she responds to yours. You have to undo this unbalance by waiting just as long or even longer with replying to her emails. Just as well, if she already is involved with someone, you have to undo that imbalance by making her work a lot harder for you. Whereas you would ask a single girl out based on clear IOI's, you should ask a "taken" girl out based on a lot more. I feel like she has to prove to me that she's interested ENOUGH to "cheat" on that other dude. Knowing that she likes me isn't enough, it doesn't mean jack sh!t. Whereas IOI's from a single girl tell you you'll most probably succeed when you make a move, they don't mean sh!t when she's already "taken". So she has to do more if she wants me to ask her out. If I'd ask her out right now, she'd feel like "I'm already taken, I don't need you, but you can try..." You get my point? A single girl would have somehting to lose... If she likes you and you don't ask her out, she'll be dissapointed. A "taken" girl has nothing to lose... If she likes you and you don't ask her out, she'll be like: "Too bad, but I already have someone so who cares..." I hate that situation and I don't wanna be a part of it. I wanna turn the tables and act like this: "Fvck you with your distant lover, you can have him. I'm certainly not gonna lower myself to a situation where I can only hope that you decide to go out with me in spite of your "relationship" with him. Nooooo....YOU can come back to ME after you got rid of HIM and it's YOUR loss if you don't do so. Now be gone and don't bother me unless you've come to tell me that you want me!"

 

[Tazman]

I did read your post and my advice still stands. I mean, if you decide to forget about her because of the bf that's where it ends, but I think you stretched the whole thing out too long.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a desirable woman who's single without any guy in the picture. I don't think I've ever been with a woman who didn't have a guy around (regardless of bf status). Women are natural plate spinners.

As a general rule I would behave as if there isn't a bf, if they bring it up as a way to reject you, that's when you move on. This is based on the fact that you're flirting with each other.

If you ask them out and they turn you down, you're job is done. You carry on as if it never happened, remain the same happy, confident, upbeat guy. It will feel like a huge weight has been lifted from your shoulders.

 

[Die Hard]

Thanks, Tazman. I think the great lesson for me to learn here, is this:

If you ask them out and they turn you down, you're job is done. You carry on as if it never happened, remain the same happy, confident, upbeat guy.

I know this is what I should be like and regarding single girls, I think I can do that...but regarding "taken" girls, I find it hard. The only way to get better at it is by experiencing it more, I guess.

Being slowly inclined towards making a move on her after all...anyone else who can push me more in that direction with their wisdom?

P.S. Remember I told that she added me on facebook and sent a message along? Basically she just asked how I was doing and asked how something specific at work went for me. I then added her and sent a message to her, basically telling her the thing at work went well and then asking her a question in return. It's been like one day and a half since I sent my reply but she didn't send anything back yet. However, she has been active on facebook in the meanwhile. If she's won't respond before the next time we meet, asking her out is totally out of the question!

 

[Sinistar]

Die Hard,

There are about 10 things I'd like to address in your response to me. But I think that will just keep feeding this.

When I read your posts and your most recent responses they wreak, I mean WREAK of a FEAR OF WOMEN.

Why do you fear women so much?

When a women has a boyfriend, it doesn't mean anything until you show up and actually risk some rejection with her. When they are in the "proclaimed boyfriend" state they are either totally into the guy in which case you'll at best be an acquaintance and she will not be throwing you any IOI's, etc. Or she's not in that state because he's taking to long to commit or she's just using him because she feels better having a guy in her life. In that case, whether she (or society) will say it or not, she's open to being approached.

We have the fortune of seeing the rut you are stuck in but you're in it so deep you have no idea what it really is. Your rut is fear of women. You fear they are going to reject you and that rejection will make your life unbearable. So every time you approach a woman, this fear overtakes you and it immediately places you in their frame. From that point on, you take the approach of hoping she'll overtly tell you she wants to be dated. That way you have nothing to risk and everything to gain.

You know what, there are guys that get women to do just that. But these are men with zero fear of women. These are men who have about 97 other more important things going on in their lives. When they meet women, they know a rejection is actually silly. So they approach with no sense of loss beforehand. And women read in this guy that he lots of other priorities and options. That's what reels them in.

You right now are the opposite of that guy. Your goals with these women are all really just fantasy. And believe one thing - these creatures are amazing at sensing this. You were doomed from the start. Just minutes after you had your first opening and didn't take it (ie risking a rejection by reaching for the prize) you were placed in the "other" category. You were no longer a mystery or someone to wonder about.

You want advice now. Let these women come to work so they can work - because anything beyond that can/might/will eventually fall into legal territory if they at all feel stressed.

Start meeting women and dating outside of work. Get some new hobbies and interests that get you around women outside of work. Date them, get to know them better. You will soon learn that they actually fear us far more than you might imagine. They are just people. When you've met and dated (and more) with many women you'll see how this office thing is silly and how you need a totally different mindset to succeed in this environment.

I know it seems like we're beating up on you. But we're just trying to get you out of this rut.

 

[Die Hard]

Never mind...

If you already read what I wrote here before, forget about it. I didn't pay enough attention to your last post and kinda misintepreted it, Sinistar. Things are clear now

I think I might take up that challenge of asking either one of them out before Valentine's Day!

 

[Desdinova]

Holy crap, if I didn't know better (and yes I checked), I'd say Luke Skywalker is back.