Renting is now cheaper than owning in all of America’s 50 biggest metro areas

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
Because now is better than tomorrow.
Maybe but what's the point if you are going to have a $3000 house payment for the rest of your life with almost no chance of paying it off?

The value of buying a house is that one day you will own it outright and won't have payments left on it unlike you would renting.

It's unlikely at these prices and interest rates that you would be better off buying versus renting in many places once you factor in taxes, maintenance and other house related costs you don't have renting.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jul 29, 2020
Messages
2,844
Reaction score
2,174
Anything that can be bought with money is technically an investment vehicle; most investment vehicles based on a NEED, such as shelter, tend to outperform every other investment vehicle once supply becomes limited, because regardless of the prices people will buy.

Mortgage Fraud, Foreign Investment, Domestic investment... These 3 factors continually eat the supply of housing, which in turn drives up the price.

Renting might be cheaper, but you also cannot lend against your rent in the way you can your own property... You might be saving money but is that even negligible as a comparison when you can get a lump sum loan, even if you are paying interest?

If you look at a place like Canada for example, we've had rent control in a lot of places, well when you implement rent control, the free market of capitalism dictates that as a builder, you slow your business down until the rent control goes away so you can maximize profit... Certainly so when you look at the high costs of building materials and the tariffs that are likely to be installed if Trump enters office... So as you can see, we install socialist policies, "rent control" but then these same people don't understand that venture capitalists aren't gonna play ball, they hold the keys, like who's gonna give up first, the rent control or the builders... Rent control is always gonna be gone first and then rents are gonna be rising higher than they ever would otherwise because the builders know the supply will be low when that happens, thus demand will sky rocket.

So our socialism policy and capitalism policy are effectively conflicting and the capitalism is gonna win out every time unless the government either builds themselves or forces them to build.

This will eventually happen in the states as well.
 
Last edited:

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
Well yes, the value of buying a house is that you need a place to live no matter what.
That's true but that's also why people who go on back to back to back cruises indefintiely are so interesting because by the time you end up factoring in food costs, housing costs, vehicle costs, insurance costs, medical costs, Wifi/cable, etc that you wouldn't have on a cruise ship, in some cases, travelling around the world nonstop is actually less expensive than paying rent/mortgage payments.

You also get huge discounts by constantly sailing on the same cruise lines, which also helps lower the costs...

Was reading a few posts about people who did and the breakdown of costs and it was very comparable to simply living a normal life and paying for all those things with a house but you got to see the world and travel for free pretty much.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,721
Reaction score
8,644
Age
35
That's true but that's also why people who go on back to back to back cruises indefintiely are so interesting because by the time you end up factoring in food costs, housing costs, vehicle costs, insurance costs, medical costs, Wifi/cable, etc that you wouldn't have on a cruise ship, in some cases, travelling around the world nonstop is actually less expensive than paying rent/mortgage payments.
Nothing about that idea is even serious. Traveling the world by boat eating garbage food, surrounded by infectious disease and the inevitable bouts of seasickness? If we wanted that just join the navy.

I take it you are not high on home ownership. For most people, home ownership has less to do with being a financial return on investment. That part is secondary to what a home is; a place to plant roots and build a life. You have to sleep and shvt somewhere regardless. May as well own the piece of land.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
Nothing about that idea is even serious. Traveling the world by boat eating garbage food, surrounded by infectious disease and the inevitable bouts of seasickness? If we wanted that just join the navy.

I take it you are not high on home ownership. For most people, home ownership has less to do with being a financial return on investment. That part is secondary to what a home is; a place to plant roots and build a life. You have to sleep and shvt somewhere regardless. May as well own the piece of land.
You ever been on a cruise ship? If so you would know it's not garbage food. I mean it CAN be garbage food if you choose it, but it could also be high end restaurant quality food too and anything in between. (at least on the ones I have been on some years ago...maybe things have changed recently).

There are so many food options available that you can choose to eat as healthy or an unhealthy as you want. Literally if it's not on the menu you can ask for it and they will make it for you.

When are you not surrounded by infectious disease tho? Is it any different then living in an enclosed apartment complex? Or going to busy restaurants, bars, stores, etc?

I've never really got seasick on any of the cruises I've been on and they have small patches you just put behind your ear that make that a non issue now.

I own a home actually...I am just saying it doesn't make sense for a lot of people who don't these days to be buying one with the high costs and the high mortgage rates. Especially in these cities where home prices are north of a million dollars for places that look like shacks or shanties.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,721
Reaction score
8,644
Age
35
You ever been on a cruise ship? If so you would know it's not garbage food. I mean it CAN be garbage food if you choose it, but it could also be high end restaurant quality food too and anything in between. (at least on the ones I have been on some years ago...maybe things have changed recently).

There are so many food options available that you can choose to eat as healthy or an unhealthy as you want. Literally if it's not on the menu you can ask for it and they will make it for you.

When are you not surrounded by infectious disease tho? Is it any different then living in an enclosed apartment complex? Or going to busy restaurants, bars, stores, etc?

I've never really got seasick on any of the cruises I've been on and they have small patches you just put behind your ear that make that a non issue now.

I own a home actually...I am just saying it doesn't make sense for a lot of people who don't these days to be buying one with the high costs and the high mortgage rates. Especially in these cities where home prices are north of a million dollars for places that look like shacks or shanties.
The cruise ship idea is just.. weird to bring to a home topic but we can move on.

Regarding the home; the ideal time to buy a home is when one is ready to buy a home. The “break even” point between buying vs. renting is what is in flux. There is no point in waiting for the “favorable” market or interest rates. You need a place to stay regardless.
 

nicksaiz65

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
3,735
Reaction score
1,475
Age
27
The cruise ship idea is just.. weird to bring to a home topic but we can move on.

Regarding the home; the ideal time to buy a home is when one is ready to buy a home. The “break even” point between buying vs. renting is what is in flux. There is no point in waiting for the “favorable” market or interest rates. You need a place to stay regardless.
Dumb question.. not interested in homeownership personally but just curious.

Let's say that these interest rates do come down. Is it then possible to refinance your mortgage like any other loan?
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
The cruise ship idea is just.. weird to bring to a home topic but we can move on.

Regarding the home; the ideal time to buy a home is when one is ready to buy a home. The “break even” point between buying vs. renting is what is in flux. There is no point in waiting for the “favorable” market or interest rates. You need a place to stay regardless.
The ideal time to buy one is when you can AFFORD to buy one. That's what people don't seem to get. And if you can't afford to buy one then your options are to move to a place you CAN afford to buy one or not buy one.

Too many people are putting them in a financially precarious place to buy a house and they are going to suffer greatly for it over the rest of their life financially because of it.

That's the point I am trying to make. People making 200+K living paycheck to paycheck and racking up credit card debt because they can't afford the house they live in is absolutely ridiculous and these people need a logic and IQ check.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,721
Reaction score
8,644
Age
35
Too many people are putting them in a financially precarious place to buy a house and they are going to suffer greatly for it over the rest of their life financially because of it.

That's the point I am trying to make. People making 200+K living paycheck to paycheck and racking up credit card debt because they can't afford the house they live in is absolutely ridiculous and these people need a logic and IQ check.
Yes, but that is instead a personal finance problem, not something inherently wrong with homeownership. People overspend on all kinds of shvt.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
Yes, but that is instead a personal finance problem, not something inherently wrong with homeownership. People overspend on all kinds of shvt.
It's hard to label it a personal finance issue when houses are simply not affordable in many places for the average working person, even with normal incomes for a family.

The home price to income ratio is severely out of whack compared to any other time.
 

FlexpertHamilton

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
2,881
Location
US
Between the cost of houses themselves, the ridiculous down payments required in cash and the mortgage rates, I am not sure why anyone would think about purchasing a house right now
Because they have been told their entire lives that owning a house (and btw they don't own them, their banks do) is the best thing you can do and it makes you an adult. It's a status move more than anything.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
Because they have been told their entire lives that owning a house (and btw they don't own them, their banks do) is the best thing you can do and it makes you an adult. It's a status move more than anything.
Being financially and fiscally smart makes you an adult not owning a house.

When the rules change you can't still try and play the game the same way as when the rules were very different.
 

RickTheToad

Moderator
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
6,492
Reaction score
5,029
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Between the cost of houses themselves, the ridiculous down payments required in cash and the mortgage rates, I am not sure why anyone would think about purchasing a house right now
For real estate, inflation is your friend. However, this can be location-specific. Metro NYC (Fairfiled County, CT, Pike County, PA, Northern NJ, Central NJ, Westchester, NY, Orange County, NY and Rockland County, NY will all increase in value. Whereas Greene County and Sussex County; not as much. Flood zones also a no go.
 

BackInTheGame78

Moderator
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
13,701
Reaction score
14,575
For real estate, inflation is your friend. However, this can be location-specific. Metro NYC (Fairfiled County, CT, Pike County, PA, Northern NJ, Central NJ, Westchester, NY, Orange County, NY and Rockland County, NY will all increase in value. Whereas Greene County and Sussex County; not as much. Flood zones also a no go.
Not really...

No job is giving their employees raises anything close to offset the higher inflation they are seeing and which doesn't even seem to account for basic things like groceries considering many things are double or triple in price and many others are well over the 7-8% rate of inflation, upwards of 40-50% higher. And the things that haven't increased in price have decreased in size, so realistically it's the same since you are paying the same for less.

When is the last time you saw a true half gallon of ice cream? Hell, now it is down under 1.5 quarts! Went from 2 quarts to 1.75 to 1.5 to 1.44. Pretty soon they are just gonna sell it in quarts.

So higher home prices are nice but the money to pay for these sky high home prices is increasingly being crunched by the cost of everything else taking discretionary income and it not being replaced by your job. 2% raises when you have 7% inflation means a 5% or more paycut.
 

RickTheToad

Moderator
Joined
Apr 21, 2018
Messages
6,492
Reaction score
5,029
Location
Bridgeport, CT
Not really...

No job is giving their employees raises anything close to offset the higher inflation they are seeing and which doesn't even seem to account for basic things like groceries considering many things are double or triple in price and many others are well over the 7-8% rate of inflation, upwards of 40-50% higher.

So higher home prices are nice but the money to pay for these sky high home prices is increasingly being crunched by the cost of everything else taking discretionary income.
A home I purchased as a rent in 2017 for $200k is now work $515k and shoots off over 70k a year in rents. I think you are mistaken.
 
Top