Relationship: HELP, I'm an emotional wreck!

Kaine

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Women tell men they love them all the time; after she's screwed your best friend, after she dumps you after 5 long years marriage, after been constipated for a week and just taken a crap, after you hit that cherry the first time. Women do this ~all the time


Fact of the matter as a man it's not so much what she says but her actions that should be important to you. She treats you like you're travelling first class then tells you she loves you "check!". She tells you she loves you then gets flaky and ignores your calls "NEXT!". Simple?


On the topic of Love, Love is is an emotional feeling. How can girls fall in love? Wondering about a guy, fantasizing and projecting in her own mind over a period of time. The guy doesn't even have to be there! This my friend is what you have done to yourself.


And to aggravate this even more, love is transient! There is no such thing as unconditional love unless you have been birthed from her womb. A women is capable of telling you she loves you forever and then next thing leave to Mehico with Pedro the lawn guy.


Friend you need to get off the estrogen fantasy and use your selfesteem and logic to see how things really are.


One last example. Girl gets with jerk. Jerk treats her like dog sheeit, girl falls in love with jerk. Relationship is sheeit, girl gets heart broken. What does this mean? This means that even if you feel love for a person, it doesn't mean it's good for you.


Think

Think about your own best interests,

because she won't do that for you.


Kaine
 

icehot

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Everyone's advice is bang on. Dude, you're an AFC and don't even know it.

You're letting an older woman saddled with 2 kids lead you around by the noise! Get a clue man. YOU are the prize here. SHE should be kissing your feet for even giving her the time of day.

But alas, you are going to ignore everyone's advice and keep on with your AFC ways 'till you drive her away.

Then when she finally dumps you...for another chump she can take advantage of, you'll be back here crying about how this woman broke your heart, took advantage of your goodness..yada, yada.

-iceH
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by Mikeman!
I understand that the logical response would be "move on"....however, the love I feel for this girl is so strong, I don't feel like I could ever be happy loving another girl...I don't feel I can love another girl like I do her, everything else will be 2nd rate. I don't want to lose a once in a lifetime connection...she is THAT special to me.

Having said that, I just can't abandon this.

Wyldfire, thanks for the input..I have already sent e-mails trying to rectify that, so...

My question NOW is what to do at this point *if I want this to work*? She has said she "needs more time to think" 2 or 3 times already. Do I wait for her to get back with me, or do I send a message to her, reframing the needyness I was portraying earlier somehow?
Back off and let her think...don't keep pushing her or she'll only pull away further.
 

KarmaSutra

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
Back off and let her think...don't keep pushing her or she'll only pull away further.

Usually I'll let the old birds' comments go the way of the dodo but this, This is spoken from a true devotee of Dr. Phil and his ilk.


That's right be an infant and let HER think and give HER the authority to run your life. Give her your sac and don't forget to run your c0ck thru a mandolin so she can make a sandwich out of the little bit of manhood you had.

Extra pickles?
 

KarmaSutra

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Originally posted by Kaine
And to aggravate this even more, love is transient! There is no such thing as unconditional love unless you have been birthed from her womb. A women is capable of telling you she loves you forever and then next thing leave to Mehico with Pedro the lawn guy.


This guy just shot a double eagle.
 

WestCoaster

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Actually Wyld is right

While my advice would be to date many and leave this one behind (as I tirelessly wrote here), Wyld is correct on this one. The more you push, push, push, the further a woman runs away. Pulling back is often the best and only option.

If the AFC does per chance want to further this relationship -- which he shouldn't do -- his only option is do be a DJ and back off.
 

DJDamage

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Mike,

I am willing to bet you don't even know her.

You only know her from what she has told you. You have fallen in love with a woman you barley know. I don't care how many times you webcam together, the matter of fact remains that you are not there every week and you don't get to see the way things REALLY ARE but only get a glimpse of things that aren't.

I am also willing to bet that you are not the only guy. This women is probably seeing other guys you don't know about and fvcking them and she won't tell you about them until she is going to have enough of you and already has her nails dug deep into another man.

Dude you are in Toronto (my town). Go to Eaton Centre at around 4-8PM and there are going to be hundreds of attractive women walking around without baggage in a close distance to date. Do the bootcamp if you must, but get out of this mindset because it is going to lead you nowhere.

DjDamage
 

cave dweller

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move on....

Mike,

At 8 pm, on a Friday, she is talking to you on the web-cam.

and at

8:15 pm, on the same Friday, she is 'banging' some other dude.

Mike---move on.................

cave dweller
 

filo_yakuza

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just let him make mistake and mess up his own life. he is like
a little kid who doesnt listen up.

i have been to co-habitation ltr and ldr. i know and understand what u fell at the moment.

i tell u my personal view about love.
love is a two way street. it takes two to tango.

in relationship u must always balanced the risk. always make sure the asset was bigger the liabilities. u dont someone who is gonna be burden to your personal growth.

cut her off. let her do the decision about her life. and u do yours.
 

WestCoaster

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Originally posted by Kaine
Women tell men they love them all the time; after she's screwed your best friend, after she dumps you after 5 long years marriage, after been constipated for a week and just taken a crap, after you hit that cherry the first time. Women do this ~all the time


Fact of the matter as a man it's not so much what she says but her actions that should be important to you. She treats you like you're travelling first class then tells you she loves you "check!". She tells you she loves you then gets flaky and ignores your calls "NEXT!". Simple?


On the topic of Love, Love is is an emotional feeling. How can girls fall in love? Wondering about a guy, fantasizing and projecting in her own mind over a period of time. The guy doesn't even have to be there! This my friend is what you have done to yourself.


And to aggravate this even more, love is transient! There is no such thing as unconditional love unless you have been birthed from her womb. A women is capable of telling you she loves you forever and then next thing leave to Mehico with Pedro the lawn guy.


Friend you need to get off the estrogen fantasy and use your selfesteem and logic to see how things really are.


One last example. Girl gets with jerk. Jerk treats her like dog sheeit, girl falls in love with jerk. Relationship is sheeit, girl gets heart broken. What does this mean? This means that even if you feel love for a person, it doesn't mean it's good for you.


Think

Think about your own best interests,

because she won't do that for you.


Kaine

Kaine's post is all you need -- that's why I quoted all of it. If you don't read this post and take it to heart, you'll never learn.
 

shyguy32

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I have to post again...just to relate something I read...I don't know if it was on the boards here or in one of those crazy dating ebooks. (DJ bible is free, way better, so don't waste any money people)

Anyway..paraphrasing of course...

"If this fat, ugly chick really is into you does that mean your going to drop everything and be with her?"

The point they're trying to make is that no matter how much you love this women, no matter what you do for her, her decision is not going to be changed. So you can either go on feeling miserable about yourself or you can stand up and do something about it. Go find another chick that you get along with that doesn't have the baggage.
 

MacAvoy

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I say we stop tryin to help this sucker, he hasn't got the hint 3 pages later, he's not going to have an enlightening all of a sudden now. He isn't even advancing his argument, its just more of the same AFC rants about his undying love. The only way he is going to learn is the hard way.
 

Mikeman!

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Well everyone...it's over.

I made one last ditch effort to gain control and reframe things. I sent a message basically saying Our relationship was about exploring our capacity for true love against all odds and not everyone can rise to this challenge, and that I was disappointed that she wasn't the one to create this amazing reality with me..I then said I needed to move on.

She responded the same day, today, and said she totally understands that we should move on and that she's not capable of continuing the relationship. She talked about how she wouldn't allow me to change my foundations for her(religion/morality)..and basically ended it on a sweet note.

At this point I was thinking it was so far gone...I could either wait another 2 weeks and send a little note asking how everythings going and letting her know that I've moved on...but instead, I sent ANOTHER msg right after.

I sent a message telling her to understand that she makes me want to be a better man, that I made those changes for myself, that I have too much pride and self-respect to compromize who I am for ANYONE. Then I mentioned that I didn't know if I was making the right decision anymore because all I saw was misunderstandings between us.

Well, after all that she replied a couple hours after saying she's sorry, but she meant what she said, she's not willing to take it any further..that she hopes I can forgive her, move on, find someone else...she says she won't be writing again and wishes me luck.

Well at this point that was that...I sent her a message back saying I respected her decision, and that I would be open to talking to her, I wouldn't shut her out...said my goodbyes...and well...apparently, that's the end of it. It's over.

I'm shocked, I don't feel like the reasons she gave are the whole story...because I explained away all her complaints and she wasn't swayed.

I'm crushed and gutted :* <...This has left me thinking what is the point of seeking out love and a LTR if love is not everlasting!?

How can I ever even CONSIDER marriage again after this??!

Thank you everyone who has pitched in to help...one thing which I've always known, is the best lessons learned are those learned the hard way. I was thinking that while all of you were telling me to leave this. But seeing as how this was the first LTR I had and the first girl with whom I have ever loved...even though I knew that was the course to take...I just couldn't, I had to see this out to the end this one time...

:*<

-Mike
 

WestCoaster

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Great quote librito

This is excellent:

************************

welcome to the real dating world

***************************

We're taught by hollywood and culture that it's "happily ever after." The sooner you realize that's a bunch of b.s., the better off you'll be.

Women come and go, some are great, some aren't. Great ones still might want to dump you, that's just the way it is. Bad ones might want to stay or go. Women will dump a guy if she's having a bad hair day, or a good hair day, or if she broke a nail, or just because she feels like it. There's rarely a lot of logic behind hit, just that when they decide it's time to get out, it's time to get out.

I remember when my first semi-serious gf dumped my sorry AFC a$$ (and I was one of the worst AFCs ever), I couldn't believe it. Gee, just a couple of weeks earlier she said she was crazy about me, we were all over each other, blah, blah, blah ...

I learned my lesson quickly that a lot of words are b.s.

When it feels wrong, get out.

Relationships are like airplanes: While the ride may be rough at times, the takeoff sure as h-ll better be smooth.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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I tried to stay out of this thread, I really did. WESTCOASTER was on such a perfect set here I just couldn't step in, but now that the smoke has cleared and this idiocy is finally at an end lets review shall we?

First, some DJ math (*the classroom graons*):

MIKEMAN is 26 - the 1.5 years he's spent entertaining the idea of an LDR = he was 24 and a half when he met this single mother of 2 online.

MIKEMAN got involved in "the whole pickup scene 4 years ago" - 24.5 years old = he was 20.5 years old when he started 'sarging'. Ergo, MIKEMAN has spent a grand total of 4.5 years 'playing the field'.

Judging from his posts regarding monogamythus far; in that time, how many women do you suppose MIKEMAN has been involved with in his "wild oats sowing" 4.5 year sarge?

MIKEMAN, I'm not trying to dis you, I just want you to learn from this experience and change your mind about some things you obviously have internalized over the course of your life.

1.) Did you ever have an invisible friend when you were in grammar school? I'll let you in on a secret here; There is no such thing as an LDR, there is no relationship. LDRs become so absorbing because you fall in love with an idealization, but having a someone co-depend and enable this is akin to having an invisible friend. You assume all of the responsibility, accountability and liability of actually being in a relationship with no expectations of reciprocation of intimacy. For a woman (particualrly a single mother with security needs) this is an ideal situation. It actually takes the surrogate boyfriend dynamic into a higher stakes arena. All of the dependency and expectations of fidelity by self-committment with no exchange of intimacy (or at least a very limited exchange if at all). It's analogous to a booty call for a man - all of the sex and intimacy with no expectation of committment.

This is the first myth you must disabuse yourself of and unlearn.

2.) You met this woman online over a great distance. While I know that some will disagree with me here about internet dating, there simply is no substitute for direct interaction with a potential intimate partner. You cannot learn to read a woman if all you do is text message them or speak over the phone. You miss all of the sub-communications that she is all too capable of reading in you. There simply is no substitute for face to face communications and to build a fantasy, idealized relationship on this as a foundation makes the relationship a farce from the outset. Sexuality and attraction are spontaneous, physical, chemical processes that demand two bodies being together in the same space. You will never have a satisfying, healthy LTR that is the result of negotiating it over the phone or internet.

This is the second myth you must unlearn.

3.) At the risk of inviting the ire of WYLDFIRE, NEVER date single mothers. Period. Men who entertain this absurdity tend to lean towards the Savior Schema. This is a mental schema men (usually afraid of rejection) use as a rationale for the reciprocation of intimacy. The basis of the Savior Schema is that if a man can prove his worth by 'fixing' a woman's problems - whether emotional, financial or psychological - she will necessarily respond in kind by reciprocating her intimacy. Relationships based on this schema are a recipe for disaster.

Most rejection-phobic guys see single-mothers as 'in need' and use this to their advantage in courting them. They think that they're better able to prove they "aren't like other guys" by this overt recognition that most men will shy away from single mothers and these women are (most often) more than ready play to that fantasy. Single, childless women are always preferable to single-mommies. Always.

This is the 3rd thing you must re-learn.

4.) Rejection is better than Regret - POOK

It is better to live alone in quiet independence than settle for a lifetime of "good enough." No woman (including this one) will ever want to be with a man who lacks options. She want's a man who other women will compete for since this man's acceptance is social proof of her own worth. You lack severely in this area - you need to remake yourself as the PRIZE. An LDR with a single mother of 2 for a year and a half (of your 20s no less) with a minimum of contact should never be a better prospect that risking rejection with new and potentially better women.

You just squandered the time between 24 and a half to 26 with a loosing prospect - a 32 y.o. mother who is obviously grasping for straws herself to reorder her life if she entertained an LDR with you for this time. This is regret; you will never recapture the lost opportunities you may have had or knowingly passed up in order to untangle this woman. It would've been better for you to have been rejected by a dozen women in this 1.5 year stretch than for you to have wasted time on a prospect that any person loking in from the outside would've told was a loosing proposition.

Rejection is better than Regret

Learn this.

5.)Spin More Plates.
The only reason this fantasy LDR appealed to you is because you had no other options. If you did, you wouldn't have started this thread. You simply would've moved on to the next girl in your rolodex. A man is only as deperate as his options - when you have no options you'll settle for situations that, under normal circumstances, you would never entertain.

Start spinning plates today.

MIKEMAN, no one here is trying to flame you or offend you, we're trying to help you. Guys with an AFC mindset to your degree tend to think that anything that contradicts this psychologically, ego-invested mentality is an attack on their personalities or in some case their world view. It's akin to someone telling you you're not living your life correctly or you're raising your children wrong. It sounds judgemental and is counter to everything any woman has ever told you or anything a romanticized socialization has culled in you. We're trying to get you to take the red pill here so you can see what manipulations you'll inflict on yourself.
 

rodumusprime

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Just wanted to add Mike that as hard as this will be too hear, don't take this personally and it happens to everyone.

Instead of giving you all kinds of reasons why this happened, you and most everyone else are overlooking one thing....

She just wasn't that into you...AFTER she met you face to face. I have heard many stories of people falling for each other over the phone or instant messenger while meeting on the internet. Then, when they finally meet face to face, it just isnt there, most of the time because one or the other isnt attracted to the other one physically in real life. It is very easy to create this fantasy of what one is before you have met, but once you meet, harsh reality sets in.

And for whatever reason, she just didnt like you in real life, most likely she wasnt physically attracted to you. Think about it, if you were Brad Pitt and you had the same thoughts on abortion or religion that you do, do you think a single mother of two would be throwing him away? No. The reasons she gave you for the break up like the abortion issue are just excuses to let you down easy. Trust me on this. She couldnt just come out and say, "I dont find you physically attractive enough to date you".

The fact is she met you over the internet, grew to fantasize about you while talking on the phone and instant mess., but then when she met you, she wasnt attracted enough to keep things going. Its not a coincidence that everything was great up until the time you actually met, then things turned sour. Like I said, its happened to everyone whos done the internet dating thing, even me.
 

STR8UP

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It is better to live alone in quiet independence than settle for a lifetime of "good enough." [/B]


I see all too often men who settle for the "good enough woman". The saddest part is, many times they are only just "good enough" to keep you from putting a gun to your head and ending it all.

I'm all about a life of quiet independence. Maybe it is easy for me to say this since I am at a point in my life where I am older and wise enough to see relationships in a clear light, I have a great financial future ahead of me, and I can still manage to hook up with attractive young women.

Who knows.....maybe I will get the urge to give up my independence at some point in the future. But I can assure you of one thing.......that when I AM ready to settle down I'll be damned if I'm gonna waste 1.5yrs chasing a single mom over the internet.

I have a feeling that the original poster is going to look back on this experience in a few years and wonder what the hell he was thinking.
 

Mikeman!

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rodumusprime,

We exchanged many pics over the internet and webcammed...I'm a good looking guy who works out..she is physically attracted that's not the issue.

It's something else...
 

Sinistar

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It's something else...
...there you go, that's all the answer you need. It is SOMETHING. Now here's the best part, you have the chance to change the rest of your life and do what most of learned the hard way - you can still WALK AWAY now. It can be done. It is the only right answer. Dude you wouldn't even be here posting if you really thought continuing was a logical best choice for you. You are filled with doubt. That's the man in you trying to break past all the fantasy relationship crud gettin in the way.

Stop trying to figure out the SOMETHING and let it go.

Every second you spend analyzing this your enfactuation is growing stonger and more unhealthy. Thus the Paralysis by Analysis quote you've seen here once before.

Also, I'll add my own advice. From 17yrs old until just recently (lots of years) I quite often dated women older than me. Talk about being AFC. They love it. Sometimes it was even fun and I learned a thing or two. But in the end it is nearly impossible to maintain the strong Alpha Control Frame with them (especially with your age difference). They will just manipulate, control and beat you down until you walk away or they lose all respect for you. If you let it reach the later (zero respect) I can assure you she will end it and it won't be pretty. You have a chance to just walk here. If you go any farther she will SHRED your ego in the end. Trust me, none of us want you to go through that my friend.

Personally, I now draw the line at women my age or younger and no one with children and she better haver her sh!t really together if she's divorced. Its been like night and day when it comes dating, games, sh!t tests etc.

Dude, this is a great thread. You've had just about every topic addressed (Walk away, internet dating, enfactuation, women with kids, dating older women, spinning more plates, analysis, LDR's, etc.)

Take a break from this forum for an evening. Don't talk to her. Don't talk to anyone. Find someplace nice and quiet with no distractions. Grab that inner DJ by the ba!!s and then ask yourself, your logical alpha guy self, is it really going to get any better?

You know the answer and you know what to do.
 

shyguy32

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You know he'll never admit it, but money says that he emails her withing 2 weeks asking again what he did wrong and why they can't work through the problem.

I say less than 2 weeks.

And don't get me wrong, I was always trying to please my ex wife and smothered her with "affection" and was always trying to do nice things to her. So I know your situation Mike, but damn man get over the "I loved her" thing....like many have said, you really didn't love her you loved the fantasy you had in your head about her.
 
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