Relationship: HELP, I'm an emotional wreck!

Mikeman!

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First some info about me.. I got involved in the whole pickup scene about 4 years ago, but lately have come to find a single loving relationship more fulfilling than just sarging girl after girl...My interest is in a LTR.

The girl that I'm involved with now I met on the internet and we've been having a long distance relationship for about 1 1/2 years. She's single with 2 kids, 6 years older(I'm 26), and after talking over MSN/Phone/doing the whole webcam thing, I flew out from Canada to the US to meet her a couple of days for New Years. We had an amazing time together and it was gutwrenching having to go back home to being apart again.

We were already planning on meeting up again next month..but we got into a fight over MSN. We got to talking about abortion, and I was telling her that if she were to get pregnant, it would be good to have some sort of option, some sort of morning after pill or something to opt out of that. It was offensive to her seeing as how she had 2 miscarriages and was very anti-abortion. She said we differ too much with regards to religion/morality(she is very religious, while I'm agnostic)..

2 days later she was back on MSN on webcam as if nothing happened, but I could see she wasn't smiling at all, I could tell something was wrong...fast forward 5 more days...she had stopped coming on MSN, so I decided to call her. I reached her on the phone, she was short, abrupt, said she was busy...After that I sent her an email saying "we need to talk"...10 min later she replies with a lengthy email saying "yes we do need to talk"...and going on about how she loves me very much but feels like we need to call it quits because she sees too many things not working. The fact that we differ on religion and that being so important to her..the fact that we differ with regards to morality...the fact that my mom was not exactly for me going through with this relationship(my parents aproval is important to her..and I mentioned to her that my mom had said she was "too old for me and had baggage")...she also mentioned that this was too much of a fantasy rather than reality seeing as how we're so far apart.

I replied to it letting her know that I was wrong in what I said about the abortion...I mentioned my parents didn't know her, and that they are reasonable, they would come around. I also mentioned I would always support whatever is important to her, and I'm an open minded man who would be open to experiencing her religion...LASTLY I mentioned I was willing to make the move to where she lives, to be with her seeing as how it would be foolish not to see a love like this through..

Normally when we get in fights like this, we get back 1 or 2 days later and everythings fine..this time she responded to that by saying she was touched but she honestly needed time to think about what I said before responding! I broke down and started calling her repeatedly..way too much...she didn't pick up. I e-mailed her about 4-5 more times in the next 3 days, and she replied twice saying she still needs more time.

It's been 3 days since she sent the last e-mail and I have restrained myself from talking to her, knowing that I should leave her alone and wait for her to come to me, but I'm worried about her distancing herself from me as a result.

We both love each other, very much, and she has said in her e-mail she doesn't want another divorce, she doesn't want to go through that and she wants to protect her kids from that as well. She was thinking that these differences would lead to that...I reassured her that I'd be willing to work with her through anything and make this more real.

This is a woman whom I'd like to spend the rest of my life with...she's attractive, intelligent, sweet and we connect with each other SOOO well..In this last fight I was a bit of a jerk in the way I spoke to her, but she's not giving me a chance to talk with her over the phone to rectify everything...opting to think about it alone instead...

I need some input from those of you with experience in meaningful LTRs :*<

-Mike
 

Desdinova

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It was offensive to her seeing as how she had 2 miscarriages and was very anti-abortion.
Women who have lost babies are much more emotional about these kind of issues. They seem to develop an emotional attachment to a baby who has barely developed. When they lose it, that emotional attachment is cut, and they basically suffer heartbreak from losing someone important in her life.

Now, onto your relationship. Here's what's all going against you:

we've been having a long distance relationship for about 1 1/2 years.
She's single with 2 kids
She said we differ too much with regards to religion/morality
my parents aproval is important to her
she has said in her e-mail she doesn't want another divorce,

That's a lot.

LDRs are difficult to maintain because of no physical presence. No kino, no kissing, no sex. It gets tiring after a while (expecially 1 1/2 years) without regular physical contact.

A mother will make her kids her #1 priority. That means you will always be in third place in her life. A woman will protect her kids from any kind of emotional or physical harm that may come to them.

Religion can often play a big role in relationships, especially if her faith is strong. It'll also create problems between the two different faiths when it comes to raising children.

She is also looking for approval from outside sources. This will also cause problems. If she's looking for this, she is most likely living her life based on the approval of those around her including parents, friends, and siblings. She probably has no thought or opinion of her own, it's all other people's thoughts and opinions. These people will work at running any relationship she happens to get involved in.

Women who are divorced are badly damaged. They'll go one of two ways: Becoming desperate for a man, or putting up a shield of protection. They also likely still have contact with their ex when it comes to "who gets the kids this weekend".

Now, let's see what you've got going for you...

she's attractive, intelligent, sweet and we connect with each other SOOO well

Those are very general things. This is what your relationship is going to be based on. I don't see things like "common ground, similar future goals, fun to be with, identical beliefs and morals". The things that I mentioned will make a much more stable and solid relationship than "sweet, attractive and intelligent" will.

Now, here's what you're doing wrong:

I would always support whatever is important to her, and I'm an open minded man who would be open to experiencing her religion...LASTLY I mentioned I was willing to make the move to where she lives, to be with her seeing as how it would be foolish not to see a love like this through..
Love makes a man do stupid things. You're willing to give up your morals, beliefs, and your home to gain "love". Sounds like a pretty lousy trade to me. You're planning to lose your identity and live a lie just to be with an attractive, intelligent and sweet woman. You're planning on handing your balls over on a silver platter, just to be with a woman you don't have common ground, or similar beliefs and morals with. She'll take that silver platter of balls, and divide it amongst herself, her children, and her family who all control her life. They will also control your life because you gave up all control to "make her happy". A woman will never be 100% happy no matter what you do, so why devote your life to a hopeless cause?

I broke down and started calling her repeatedly..way too much...she didn't pick up. I e-mailed her about 4-5 more times in the next 3 days, and she replied twice saying she still needs more time.
Now you've chased her off with your neediness. It sounds as if you've already handed those balls over to her. How many times have you physically been with her in those 1 1/2 years? You don't know what kind of bad habits she has, nor do you really know how she handles herself in life. In reality, you don't know much about her other than being sweet, intelligent and attractive.

You're taking a large risk by chasing after this woman.
 

OpenMind

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You don't have a relationship, you have a fantasy......
 

ElChoclo

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Mother knows best Mike. She is too old for you and 2 kids are no picnic. Why because they cost a lot of money so unless you've got a valid cost estimate don't think it is inconsiderable if you end up living together/married.

A woman in her position shouldn't need to have her arm twisted to continue a relationship with someone she gets on really well with. Maybe your idea of how well it is going is different from hers. She already thinks it isn't working and you don't even live together, but you know better than she does.

The final nail in the coffin is that you already fight with her regularly (internet fights?). Don't chase her, if you must pursue this then print out the advice which you have received from here, and put it in an envelope. Keep the envelope in a safe place and keep it there until, many years later when you are in the depths of despair, you open it and scream out "Why, why didn't I listen!"
 

Captain AFC

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Sad to say, but it seems the only person that is making changes or concession is you in this relationship.

This isn't to blame her. She's a divorced, single mother. She is now carrying an enormous responsibility on her shoulders. She also has particular religious beliefs, morals, etc.

The thing is... EVERYONE has particular convictions, etc. The problem is not when we change those convictions. It's when we change them for the sake of someone else. In those cases, it's very ingenuine, if not just a fantasy. You'll feel good about it at first, but later in life you'll be wondering what happened.

Your story included nothing about her kids, and I'm assuming you haven't had any prolonged contact in that area. If that's the case, there's a whole area of her life that you haven't even begun to enter yet. In case like that, it's clear that your relationship is defunct, if not non-existant, especially over long distance.

Again, not anyone's fault. Just how the cards have been dealt. If you go in there, you're looking at fitting yourself into a little box all for her sake. This is not healthy for you at all. If she is looking for a relationship, she needs to look within her own circle. Not attempt to transform what she has in front of her. That kind of relationship is simply unhealthy.
 

Mikeman!

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Desdinova,

Thank you for all your insight...

You're right, love is making me do silly things..and you know we do have things in common, but I DO feel we need to identify more common ground together.

When I said all that about being open to her religion, and moving over there, I think it was a heat of the moment desperation attempt on my part to make things right. Although I WOULD be open-minded to her religion, and I WOULD *consider* moving over there if things progressed well..

So now that I've driven her away with the needyness, what do I do from here to make this work? Send an e-mail showing that I'm willing to walk to fix the frame?...or just leave her be and wait for her to respond with my "needyness" frame still in her mind?
 

Mikeman!

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ElChoclo,

You're right, she shouldn't have to have her arm twisted, I was surprised I even had to convince her at all because usually she would try to mend things asap.

We don't get in "fights" often though...it happens about once every 3 months. The previous times it's been about smaller matters though.

As for the kids...I haven't met them yet. Didn't want to introduce myself into their lives at this first visit, that was something we were working on...


Captain AFC,

After this argument, I mentioned a lot of sacrifices I was willing to take, yes...not something I have ever done with her before, I was in a panic at the time I said all that and not thinking straight.

Honestly, apart from moving for love, I wouldn't mind living in the US as that would mean less taxes for my businesses(I generate income through internet investments/ventures) and the real estate there is cheaper than it is here...



What I'd like to know now, given all the problems with the situation, is if I want to make this work, where to go from here??
 

shyguy32

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I replied to it letting her know that I was wrong in what I said about the abortion...I mentioned my parents didn't know her, and that they are reasonable, they would come around.


Geeze, Mike your 26 you don't really know this chick....from what your saying you've actually only met her ONCE. Thats ONE time in 1 and 1/2 years. Your saying that you love her and she loves you and your willing to take on the challenge of raising HER family for her. There is so much to learn before jumping into a LTR. Sure you can say youd do this and that when your talking over the internet to her. But it's totally different when your there and trying to discipline her children or giving your 2 cents into an important decision. You don't know this woman at all, you know what she tells you and thats it. And she knows what you tell her, you definately need to find someone you can spend time with and get to know.

You truly are in love with a fantasy in your head, not a reality that you can touch.
 

Mikeman!

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ShyGuy32,

Long Distance Relationships CAN work(as long as moving to be together with each other is an end goal being worked on)...my plan was to keep contact with her through phone/webcam while we don't see each other, and see each other at least once a month for 3-4 days.

Because I derive my income from the internet, I can do my job anywhere and was even planning on renting a place there for a month or so every now and then so we could be together even longer, get to know each other even better in person.

I was planning on doing ALL this BEFORE comitting to marriage and BEFORE comitting to moving there permanently...this is something I was planning on making a REALITY this year.

Given that these are my plans, can someone *PLEASE* answer my question, and tell me how to proceed with her from here, how to make this work with her....
 

Wyldfire

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Mike...family is incredibly important to someone religious. As a single mother, she's already being judged unfairly...just listen to how the guys here are in regards to them.

You made two mistakes that really bothered her that I can see. First, you said you favor abortion. If she is Catholic, that's a big no-no in that religion. And even though it was your mother that referred to her children as "baggage"...it left a very sour taste in her mouth. Those two things have left her wondering if you are suitable to have a LTR with. A single mother who is a GOOD mother will not bring a man into her life who doesn't accept and welcome her children too. You put doubts in her mind that you accept her children. And the fact that your mother said that, she is thinking that she wouldn't be welcomed into your family. Being with someone whose family doesn't like you is extremely difficult and that likely is on her mind as well.

Your only chance at fixing things is to convince her that you accept her children too. If you can't manage to do that, you really don't stand much of a chance at all with her.
 

KarmaSutra

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Brother, save yourself the head and heartache. Turn around and walk away. It'll be tough on you now but single mothers are not for saving.

This I can say with experience. Don't be a fvcking statistic. Be a man.
 

Mikeman!

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I understand that the logical response would be "move on"....however, the love I feel for this girl is so strong, I don't feel like I could ever be happy loving another girl...I don't feel I can love another girl like I do her, everything else will be 2nd rate. I don't want to lose a once in a lifetime connection...she is THAT special to me.

Having said that, I just can't abandon this.

Wyldfire, thanks for the input..I have already sent e-mails trying to rectify that, so...

My question NOW is what to do at this point *if I want this to work*? She has said she "needs more time to think" 2 or 3 times already. Do I wait for her to get back with me, or do I send a message to her, reframing the needyness I was portraying earlier somehow?
 

WestCoaster

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YOU MET HER ONCE?!!

First off, if you've met her only once face to face, you're not on love, period. Get that through your head now. You're infatuated with a fantasy.

Two, she's six years older and with two kids. What are you thinking? I did this when I was about your age and I had the youthful looks to be dating younger and/or age appropriate without kids, but didn't for awhile. That's stupid. Take it from someone with experience ... dont' waste your youth, please, don't.

Three: Abortion isn't the issue, it's a side light. The REAL issue is how do you get oneitis over someone you've met one time? You have some serious insecurity issues that need to be dealt with much more than political/morality issues like abortion. You're confusing things.

Four: You live in a METRO area. No matter how bad it is, there's still a healthy population base to choose from. At your age you should be have a rotation of probably 10-20 women you date on a regular basis ... and I'm not lying. That's 10-20 mister, get out there and start asking more out.

Five -- and finally, listen here, this is one big, stupid internet fantasy. Cyberspace has really increased the stupid fantasyland of guys and gals. Get grounded, go out and meet some living, breathing women whom you see on a regular basis.

Meanwhile, read the DJ Bible.
 

Desdinova

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I understand that the logical response would be "move on"....however, the love I feel for this girl is so strong, I don't feel like I could ever be happy loving another girl...I don't feel I can love another girl like I do her, everything else will be 2nd rate. I don't want to lose a once in a lifetime connection...she is THAT special to me.
To tell you the truth, it REALLY sounds like you're settling for something "good enough". Of the thousands of women in the world you could have chosen, you chose a girl who is divorced with two kids, and doesn't even live close to you.

You *feel* that you could never find another woman as good as this one, because you're currently involved in this one. There is no fvcking "soul mate", but there is the IDEAL WOMAN. There can be many ideal women out there. You're clearly blinded by your emotions.

I myself am in a LTR and I do care for her. However, should things eventually not work out, I know I'll be able to find other women who are very compatible with me. Don't settle for someone who has some very major baggage. You deserve the best. If you decide to marry, you have to live with that woman and her baggage for the rest of your life. Find yourself a low baggage, low maintenance woman to setlle with, and your mental health will be much better.

Also, if this woman is so goddam right for you, why is she backing out? A good woman will support your decisions, morals, beliefs, and goals. This SM is NOT a good woman.

My question NOW is what to do at this point *if I want this to work*?
Nothing. You can't force someone to love you no matter how much you alter yourself, or what PU techniques you use. You can't steer someone's emotions in the direction you want.

She has said she "needs more time to think"
This is ******** for "We should see/date other people". There's your answer.
 

WestCoaster

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Thanks for bashing the soul mate myth

The soul mate: Another hollywood fantasy, concocted to please women, the one sex who really believe in the soul mate myth. Sadly, p-ssified men are starting to believe the soul mate myth, which is a constraining, stifling thought pattern.

It's all about timing and location. Your parents never would've met had they not lived near each other or met somewhere. If they never met, it's highly doubtful your parents would've sat around whining away hoping for their soul mate to come in. Nope, they would've met and married someone else.

Think of all those soldiers returning from WWII. Many used the G.I. bill to go to college, not always in their hometown. They met their future wives in college. If they hadn't gone to college, they perhaps would've returned to their hometown and worked, and met their future wives there.

They wouldn't sit around saying, "Where is my soul mate?!"

It's all a product of timing and location, timing and location, get that through your head now milkman. There are literally millions of women on this earth you could fall in love with and be happy ... and there are millions of others whom you could be miserable with.

Right now your timing is based on the internet, and your location is in cyberspace. Personally I think these two options suck ... though you could always troll for the woman's opinion here, who will think this fantasy is great.

It's not. Get grounded in reality.
 

MacAvoy

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Originally posted by Mikeman!
My question NOW is what to do at this point *if I want this to work*? ... Do I wait for her to get back with me, or do I send a message to her, reframing the needyness I was portraying earlier somehow?
If you want this to work, you need to move on. You have to gain control back, as long as you continue to act the way you are, she will have control the relationship. You have to make yourself scarce so that she realizes you are the prize.

Read the bible for more info.
 

NewMan

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I will not comment on what I think about your relationship.


Firstly - You seem to have the idea the you can change in order to be acceptable to her.

Right now, these things may not matter to you much, but in the future they will.

You are ignoring the things that drive people apart - abortion, religion, Morality - to name a few. These may seem unimportant now, but in the future it may not be the case.

Several years down the line if you have kids, how will you feel? will you want your child to make it's own decision on topics such as religion (like I assume you have) - or will you stand aside and watch your wife import her own beliefs on him/her????

these are not small differences and you need to realise that if you are to make a relationship work - long term - you need more than just the fanatasy that long distance relationships give you.

If you are to move forward with this, you need to have these conversations with her.

You also need to take back the power. You are coming from a position of weakness (alowing her to control when you take to her and the conversation). If she no longer appears on MSN - you must have the strength to cut her off by removing her from your list - because you should not put up with these games.

I believe it is important for you to find your strength of character and stick to what you beleive in.

On another note - I hope you use protection when you bang her - because otherwise you will be daddy no3.


on another note - i find it amusing that someone so religious and against abortion - would either have sex before marrage - or get divorced. Where was her religion when this was happening. Hypocritical.
 

WestCoaster

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Correction ...

... this is not a RELATIONSHIP. Everyone get that out of their heads ASAP. A relationship is where you see a person a few to several times a week, you converse face to face, you hold hands, you're intimate, etc. This is the furthest thing from a relationship.

It's a cyber-discussion, that is it, period.

Also, those issues of morality, abortion, etc., will be big down the road in a REAL RELATIONSHIP.

The bigger issues right now are:
1. Why does he have oneitis over a woman he's met once?

2. Why does he think meeting a woman one time constitutes a relationship?

3. Why does he think he can't find anyone better than her? I.E., why has he bought into the soul mate bullsh-t.

4. Why isn't he dating up a storm in Toronto?

5. Why is he willing to sacrifice freedom and singlehood in his 20's to settle down with a cyber-gal with two kids?

Those issues are WAY bigger than the abortion, mortality, political, etc., issues right now.

Without a strong inner game, those other issues mean zilch, zippo, nada.

The big picture is Mikeman's weak inner game.
 
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