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Red pill vs Black pill

corrector

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How do you factor in the other scores like smart and trustworthy?
 

DonJuanjr

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Would you say that you are good with game?
No, I don't think so. I'm up to 41 approaches with 1 date and no second date. I haven't had any success since being red pilled. But you have to crawl before you can walk. Even the donjuans on here attest to it being numbers. So it's a numbers game no matter your skill or looks, or value. There's another guy on another forum that was a virgin until 30. Approached hundreds of women, been on 60+ dates with the majority of them not getting a second. But he slowly made progress. Little by little. From nothing to t!ttie sucking, to fingering, to getting bjs, eating pvssy. Working on his game.

The black-pill argument is not that it elevates you to a 7, that's are showing enough confidence and charisma to attract her as a 5.
It's about perceived value from the female. Another guy on here said he was perceived by a female as a 6, but because he was bold enough to approach her, her perceived value of him jumped to an 8. So a 4 can be perceived as more valuable to a female as well.
 

DonJuanjr

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How do you factor in the other scores like smart and trustworthy?
I don't care if women view me as smart or trustworthy, I only care about figuring out how to give them the tingles. Though I would treat it with the same logic. They are more favorable though since you asked. With about half of the votes being yes to both categories. This is good if I am the dark triad type haha.
 

corrector

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No, I don't think so. I'm up to 41 approaches with 1 date and no second date.
Yes, but that's one part of the picture. How many woman walked away quickly, were creeped out, or called security/police?

DonJuanjr said:
I haven't had any success since being red pilled. But you have to crawl before you can walk. Even the donjuans on here attest to it being numbers. So it's a numbers game no matter your skill or looks, or value.
The numbers vary based on skills, looks, or value. It could be the difference between 3,5,50, or 1000 approaches or whether there are mild rejections or the police being called.
 

DonJuanjr

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I don't know what to tell you about the police calling aspect since I've never been to Toronto. Maybe move? I am considering it just to have access to more females. Let alone the relief of knowing police won't be called on me for flirting with women. It could be the difference with those numbers... But you might find a woman that is interested after the third try, while a more game savvy,better looking guy might after the 8th try. You can only control what you can. The way you dress, groom, and have game.
 

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corrector

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You can only control what you can. The way you dress, groom, and have game.
While it may be true, that some of the notes indicated the shirt didn't look good, the photo looked bland or there should have been more smile/facial expression. The facial expression looks like I'm holding up a big turd and need to use the washroom or something...I don't know.

However, the overall score is just low. The only thing half-encouraging is that I'm more smart/trustworthy than my appearance is allowing for. Normally if the looks score is low, then the smart/trustworthy is usually low too. I'm not sure what that would mean.

I'm still going to see if I can get some further feedback from the other order that I made.

Listen, DonJuanjr, I appreciate your input. But, if we take things in mathematical terms. You said you approached 41 women to get one date and no second date. Wouldn't that make me feel more hopeless if I had the same results and approached 82 women since I'm doubly more uglier than you are? I'm a busy person and have allot of things to do here and I'm constantly occupied and it feels like I'd struggle around just to do one or two approaches here or there. The type of numbers/volume sounds gargantuan and you have to wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze. After all that work, you are bound to get desperate and start going with anyone at all so you can feel that it's possible to even be liked, etc.... Do you really keep your standards on the types of girls you want after all those approaches?

Even your numbers sound harsh. If you didn't get a second date, then technically you didn't really get any results either?
Where do you find the time to do these approaches and where do you even do them?
 

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Final votes are in:

Out of 40 women polled up to 44 years old.

16 not attractive, 17 somewhat attractive, and 7 attractive.

How many woman would find me attractive? 17.5%

How many woman would find me somewhat attractive and/or attractive? 60%.

How many woman would flat out find me unattractive: 40%.

How many woman would find me very attractive: 0%.

I'm not going to bother expanding the votes at this point since the results are already brutal enough.

It's time to take it to the next level and I'll see how that other order will be coming along.

At least one person on here is challenging the black-pill mindset behind dismissing cold-approaching based on these scores. That's alright too. Everyone has to determine whether the juice is worth the squeeze. I'm not sure if it is in my case if I have a 40% unattractive when I'm sure lots of other people would feel buthurt if they had even any number going on that category.
 

DonJuanjr

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Do you really keep your standards on the types of girls you want after all those approaches?
For the most part yes. Sometimes I may just approach a female that I may not be attracted to just to see if I can capitalize while being on a roll. If I got the girls number it doesn't mean I have to call her right?

If you didn't get a second date, then technically you didn't really get any results either?
Where do you find the time to do these approaches and where do you even do them?
I already admitted to not having any results since being red pilled. Doesn't mean a snowball effect won't take place when I get my game locked down. The way I see it, it may take 100 approaches to get my game locked down. It may take double that. But it doesn't mean it will be the standard. Once my game is locked down, The ratio will get smaller. It might get to where it's 1 in 8 approaches. .

Any time I go to a public place I try taking the opportunity to approach. Which is part of the reason why I want to move to a larger population. To have more chances every time I go about my errands.
 

DonJuanjr

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For every woman you encounter you have a 60% chance of turning them into a yes I'll fvck him, with game. The odds are in your favor.
 

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You are very optimistic about my numbers. You see, I put an age category up to 44. If I kept it below 29 or 24, I'm sure the results would be probably worst.

But we've both have the same results. You said you have had zero results since being red-pilled, and I have also have zero results since being black-pilled. But you are doing more work then I am to get the same results, lol! According to the black-pill logic, you being a 5, if you have your game locked down, you should be getting 1 in 50 approaches (ie all the way/getting a gf, etc...). If you are correct and do 1:8 then you'll prove the black-pill charts wrong!

But there is always that 1 in a Million girl.
 

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You are very optimistic about my numbers. You see, I put an age category up to 44. If I kept it below 29 or 24, I'm sure the results would be probably worst.

But we've both have the same results. You said you have had zero results since being red-pilled, and I have also have zero results since being black-pilled. But you are doing more work then I am to get the same results, lol! According to the black-pill logic, you being a 5, if you have your game locked down, you should be getting 1 in 50 approaches (ie all the way/getting a gf, etc...). If you are correct and do 1:8 then you'll prove the black-pill charts wrong!

But there is always that 1 in a Million girl.
on photofeeler , depending on the picture I ranged between 8 and 9.9 , and most of the times around the 9 mark

guess what , if I do not do approaches I do not get laid either :)
 

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on photofeeler , depending on the picture I ranged between 8 and 9.9 , and most of the times around the 9 mark

guess what , if I do not do approaches I do not get laid either :)
I appreciate the fact that you are trying to make me feel better after such brutal scores. I am waiting for the results of that other order I've made to assess my looksmaxxing potential, (ie potential opportunity cost about not improving my looks).

But what you are saying is very correct, if you don't approach you likely won't get laid, but you have an opportunity cost where you could have got laid if you did, lets say 3 or 5 women, esp if they showed you IOIs. I have also read your other threads and already figured out you are high on the looks scale based on your mindset about women would reflect a different reality. For example, someone in your looksscale would not see the sense in marriage or relationships because you already have allot of options. You might have to chase a little here or there, but its a small price and you usually will not get an ego-hit. You are not invisible to women and you'll WANT to make approaches because you would feel welcome to do so because you know they WANT to be approached by you. Am I not correct in my assessment?

However, if we take @DonJuanjr, 41approaches and no results, just one date, means if he didn't approach those women there is no opportunity cost to him. Certainly not 3-5 women! If I have a lower score than him, then its less likely I'll see an opportunity cost of not approaching or using OLD. If there is no opportunity cost then any feeling of regret of not approaching or taking action becomes invalidated since it's easy to dismiss the fact that she would have welcomed the approach anyway and it would have lead to something.

However, I am serious about finding out about looksmaxxing potential and I want to see if I can improve my looks/picture/presentation to AT LEAST a 5 or higher.
 

Bigpapa

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I appreciate the fact that you are trying to make me feel better after such brutal scores. I am waiting for the results of that other order I've made to assess my looksmaxxing potential, (ie potential opportunity cost about not improving my looks).

But what you are saying is very correct, if you don't approach you likely won't get laid, but you have an opportunity cost where you could have got laid if you did, lets say 3 or 5 women, esp if they showed you IOIs. I have also read your other threads and already figured out you are high on the looks scale based on your mindset about women would reflect a different reality. For example, someone in your looksscale would not see the sense in marriage or relationships because you already have allot of options. You might have to chase a little here or there, but its a small price and you usually will not get an ego-hit. You are not invisible to women and you'll WANT to make approaches because you would feel welcome to do so because you know they WANT to be approached by you. Am I not correct in my assessment?

However, if we take @DonJuanjr, 41approaches and no results, just one date, means if he didn't approach those women there is no opportunity cost to him. Certainly not 3-5 women! If I have a lower score than him, then its less likely I'll see an opportunity cost of not approaching or using OLD. If there is no opportunity cost then any feeling of regret of not approaching or taking action becomes invalidated since it's easy to dismiss the fact that she would have welcomed the approach anyway and it would have lead to something.

However, I am serious about finding out about looksmaxxing potential and I want to see if I can improve my looks/picture/presentation to AT LEAST a 5 or higher.
man , no matter what people say , I like having long term women in my life

mainly This is because that most women are very stupid , even with good looking guys

most women create a lot of stupid drama for no reason

and chasing tail all the time is super time and energy consuming and in most cases the maximum you will get is some p8ssy . Nothing more nothing less

everyone goes through thr same things as you do , no matter how good looking they are or how wealthy they are
 

DonJuanjr

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However, if we take @DonJuanjr, 41approaches and no results, just one date, means if he didn't approach those women there is no opportunity cost to him.
You know, even if you get rejections, you're still changing your personality in the process while slowly building a skill. So even though I haven't had sex with any of the women I've approached so far, it wasn't a waste of time.

What's your end goal @corrector? To find a woman to marry? Because if you can't game women, she'll either cheat on you throughout the marriage or leave you for someone else. If you are black pilled, than you recognize hypergamy, and know this to be true.
 

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You know, even if you get rejections, you're still changing your personality in the process while slowly building a skill. So even though I haven't had sex with any of the women I've approached so far, it wasn't a waste of time.
How are you changing your personality in the process? I can see you are developing tougher skin. However, if you just play LEVEL 1 in any game that has 100 Levels, then you are just getting good at Level 1. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but cold approaching with a goal of getting a second date or sex sounds like you getting good at Level 1 and possibility Level 2.

How long did it take you to approach 41 women? Was it one day or over the course of time?

DonJuanjr said:
What's your end goal @corrector? To find a woman to marry? Because if you can't game women, she'll either cheat on you throughout the marriage or leave you for someone else. If you are black pilled, than you recognize hypergamy, and know this to be true.
I don't see how mastery at Level 1 of a game would help with mastery at Level 40. There are allot of dynamics involved in a developing and established relationship that's not covered by developing thicker skin with cold approach. In fact, if you have to cold approach a large number of women and the relationship/marriage doesn't work out, then you are back to square one and have to start from scratch with a dreaded large number of approaches! Your game and skill-set will weaken as you are in a relationship/marriage since you already have someone.

However, someone with a higher SMV/looks that can readily get into relationships with women have more of that type of useful experience.

So, even taking your argument, I'm not sure if gaming cold approach translate into relationships in a meaningful way.

With black-pill hypergamy means that if the relationship falls apart that she can just go online rather than fight for the relationship, unless you have solid looks and are not that easy for her to replace online, in which case she'll fight for it. However, either way, black-pill either leads to MTGOW where you don't get married in the first place or have that much legal exposure, or that you go head-long into marriage anyway knowing that could be an eventual outcome and just enjoy the ride while it lasts. No matter how much game you have, you can't be someone else 24/7 if it's not really you. At some point in the marriage you'll just default back to your blue-pill ways as you get comfortable because its not you, you get rusty with your game and lose it, and start back to square one anyway, and that's assuming the truth of what you are saying.
 

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It becomes who you are. You internalize it.

So what are you advocating then? MGTOW? What is your end goal?
Again, I don't see how limited experience doing some cold approaches would help you 1 or 2 years into a marriage.

I'm not intending to advocate anything here. Like I said, I'm assessing opportunity cost of not doing x, y or z.

There is either two outcomes of this thread. I'm either at my looksmax potential right now (ie I'm so facially unaesthetic that it won't matter what I do to improve my looks or game) or I'm not at my looksmaxx potential (there is opportunity cost in not improving my looks, etc...).

Unless there is room to improve my looks, career, or other SMV things, I don't think game is helpful since you need something to work with in the first place to back up the game.
 

DonJuanjr

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I guess you'll just have to be happy with obese/very ugly women. If that's what you can get, so be it.
 
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