Question for Slickster, Backbreaker and Rollo

[5string]

There is a fundamental element of marriage that many of you, Rollo included, are not addressing. I agree with Rollo's blog post and actually think this it is an outstanding site (I'm sure he knows this already though). But he did say that he had no real answer to why he proposed to Mrs. Tomassi.

Marriage is a religious institution. Without religion, there should probably be no marriage except to bear and raise children. It is THE fundamental base of marriage. I hate to bring this up because religion is frowned upon here and no one will agree, but that's MY OPINION, one I do happen to believe in. You know why I believe it? Because of personal experience in my own life. Think about it, at some point you have to address where marriage came from, and it wasn't just 'invented' by men. Marriage is not a Western phenomena. So spare me the black helicopter theories.

Now, by all means, flame away.

speed dawg

Don't take this as a flame, only a different perspective.

I disagree with you. Neither my wife or myself are religious. I married my wife because I truly loved her. She would say the same thing. By asking her to marry me, I told her that I was willing to commit to her. By saying yes, she committed to me. Really nothing more to it, at least for us. So why did I ask her really? Was it for a constant supply of poon? Nope. Can get that all day long. There was attraction, friendship, fun, someone I could count on when need be. Oh, and the sex was, and is still there. Many reasons actually. We really do rely on one another for many things. It's a partnership if you will with many rewards. Religion has nothing to do with it and neither of us wanted more kids. It's just me n her. We're a team.

Anyway, I really do enjoy being married to her. I still have the ol' oneitis for her, just don't show it much which keeps her interested.

Don't tell Mrs.5string I said that.

 

[speed dawg]

speed dawg

Don't take this as a flame, only a different perspective.

I disagree with you. Neither my wife or myself are religious. I married my wife because I truly loved her. She would say the same thing. By asking her to marry me, I told her that I was willing to commit to her. By saying yes, she committed to me. Really nothing more to it, at least for us. So why did I ask her really? Was it for a constant supply of poon? Nope. Can get that all day long. There was attraction, friendship, fun, someone I could count on when need be. Oh, and the sex was, and is still there. Many reasons actually. We really do rely on one another for many things. It's a partnership if you will with many rewards. Religion has nothing to do with it and neither of us wanted more kids. It's just me n her. We're a team.

Anyway, I really do enjoy being married to her. I still have the ol' oneitis for her, just don't show it much which keeps her interested.

Don't tell Mrs.5string I said that.

I believe you bring some excellent points to the table. Obviously, all we're trying to do in this life is find something that makes us happy. I aspire to more than that due to my religion.

My questions to you would be these: Why be married? What fundamentally are you getting by holding that ceremony before God? Were you married in a church by a minister? It seems like you can accomplish all those things without being married, especially if you're not religious.

I guess to me, without religion involved, the only benefits I see to marriage are whatever tax breaks there are, and social acceptance of living together/having sex repeatedly/etc. (you know, avoiding social stigma). And obviously kids, but that doesn't apply to you. You still have that 'partner' in life without the formal ceremony to be made public.

I guess the tax stuff could make it worth, but I'm not really sure there is much there except for maybe upping your income to get a bigger house, jointly filing, etc. Not an expert there, that's why I hire an accountant.

 

[speed dawg]

Our fairy tale ideas about marriage have already been shattered, so we don't have to go through all that stupid bullsh!t again.

No doubt about it. The whole fairy tale stuff is discussed ad nauseum here so I won't get into that. All perpetrated by the diamond kingpins and marketing experts trying to exploit human's soft side. Valentine's n sh1t.

 

[5string]

speed dawg

I was married by a buddy of mine who's a judge.

Why be married? I just plain dig my wife. Taxes have little to do with it. Although my marriage remains exciting, it does have a comfort factor. I don't have to date, I have someone to share "chores" with, someone I can count on for literally everything. She really is my closest friend and we never become tired of talking with one another. I love to take her out and take her on business trips. She also has told me she feels safe around me. I suppose that's the security thing that many women desire from a man. Like Bible Belt, I was divorced as was my wife. No fairy tales for us either.

By being married, I have consumated a promise I made to my wife. It's a formal bond between us.

 

[samspade]

wait! me too!

This is something no one wants to hear, but I'll say it for the sake of perspective on this discussion. When I talk to people about marriage who have not yet been divorced, it's just like talking about sex with a virgin. Their reality is one of intangibles that only they see as important. Fairy tale ideas are still real to them. And sometimes those unrealistic concepts end up never getting shattered for all of one's life, but especially these days, the odds are pretty slim.

I really and truly don't wish divorce on anyone, especially anyone here. If you have never been married and your woman has also never been previously married, then my points aren't relevant. You both live in the same reality. My point is that divorce completely changes everyone's perspective on marriage. I'm very glad that my girlfriend and I are both divorced. Our fairy tale ideas about marriage have already been shattered, so we don't have to go through all that stupid bullsh!t again.

I don't think I have any illusions about the reality of divorce, and I don't see marriage as some kind of fantasy lifestyle. I wouldn't want to go through a divorce necessarily, but I'm also willing to accept it if it comes to that.

As for speed dawg's religious query...I'm not religious at all. My wife is passively religious but not a churchgoer. We had our marriage at city hall. We didn't want the blessing of the clergy - all due respect to those who do. But you're right - if not before God, then why? Like I said, I married to keep her in my life in the USA - that was my choice.

There's a lot of talk of the decline of marriage, as well as the expansion of marriage rights to gays. I have a simple solution that will not be embraced anytime soon: Abolish marriage. Replace it with an expanded form of the domestic partnership. That is, make it easy to enter and exit. Maybe that would take away some sense of "commitment" for some people, but you could still take your vows before your god as a form of personal commitment without the government paperwork. Unfortunately there are thousands of divorce lawyers who will never let this happen.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Samspade -- I hear you man, in a lot of ways it seems like commitment to someone really is aside from 'marriage'.

Die_Hard -- I appreciated you writing this thread up and getting some perspectives.

I appreciate everyone here. I have been a bit mentally twisted again with women, these threads are refreshing. I have no desire to cheat on anyone, I would feel terrible about it personally, I am a super loyal dude to people close to me, I'm not sure I could look that person in the eye again.

I admire you dudes whom dig your ladies and seem to have balanced healthy relationships.

 

[zekko]

Why be married? I just plain dig my wife. Taxes have little to do with it. Although my marriage remains exciting, it does have a comfort factor. I don't have to date, I have someone to share "chores" with, someone I can count on for literally everything.

Two things you've said in this thread have really resonated with me when I think about why I am with my girl (we're not married but we live together monogamousy).

First off, "I don't have to date". Lol, that's a funny one, but it's true. Backbreaker alluded to having to go through the same "getting to know you" phase over and over again. It gets boring. Reading this forum, look at all the BS guys go through dealing with women. There's an excitement to dealing with new women, but it can also be a pain in the @ss. We've all been through it, I don't know why guys want to live their whole lives like that.

Secondly, you referred to a partnership with your wife. That's very much the way I think of my relationship also. It's a partnership. We're going the same way, working toward many of the same goals, building our life, raising our pets, tending the garden, keeping the house clean, etc., etc.

There is a quote from Ecclesiastes: "Two are better than one … If one falls, the other will lift him up. Where a lone man may be overcome, two together can resist."

 

[5string]

Two things you've said in this thread have really resonated with me when I think about why I am with my girl (we're not married but we live together monogamousy).

First off, "I don't have to date". Lol, that's a funny one, but it's true. Backbreaker alluded to having to go through the same "getting to know you" phase over and over again. It gets boring. Reading this forum, look at all the BS guys go through dealing with women. There's an excitement to dealing with new women, but it can also be a pain in the @ss. We've all been through it, I don't know why guys want to live their whole lives like that.

Secondly, you referred to a partnership with your wife. That's very much the way I think of my relationship also. It's a partnership. We're going the same way, working toward many of the same goals, building our life, raising our pets, tending the garden, keeping the house clean, etc., etc.

There is a quote from Ecclesiastes: "Two are better than one … If one falls, the other will lift him up. Where a lone man may be overcome, two together can resist."

One of the best posts ever zekko. I'd rep ya if I could.

Last night, I came home from work. Mrs.5string was waiting. Made her a little soup for her to dip her bread into and got her a glass of wine. She wanted to cook for me but I declined as I wasnt hungry. She loves to cook for me.

My laundry was done and the house was clean. We sat around and talked for 2-3 hours. She had fed the dogs. Also, she was wearing some designer jeans, a new cami and a pair of heels. Yum! Knows how to push my buttons.

Needless to say, we didnt get to sleep for a couple hours.

Thus is a day in the life of 5string.

Gotta love it. :flowers:

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

SMARTMONKEY, put an age on your profile and read the Mature Man forum rules.

 

[5string]

I'm new here, don't mean any disrespect . . .

Many of the married guys' responses don't make much sense. If you aren't married for religious reasons, and your wife isn't independently wealthy, you're entering into a highly disadvantageous legal contract for no good reason. It's kind of like saying you co-signed your buddy's car loan because "he's a really good guy and we've know each other for years."

I totally get the utility of a monogamous relationship, i.e. "live-in girlfriend."

I also understand why marriage makes sense if it's under the moral authority of religion, as long as your wife has been socialized to consider divorce immoral. This is a practical way to increase the odds that the children you raise will not have to endure a single-parent household.

But to get married just because you're in love makes absolutely no sense to me. It immediately puts you at a tremendous disadvantage in the relationship, she will always know that if the marriage ends, the terms of the contract favor her.

It's about commitment. There are many advantages to this in a marriage. You need to think about this on a higher level. There are many men on this forum that are happily married. Being happily married speaks volumes.

Ask yourself why this is.

 

[speed dawg]

iGo out with friends, travel alone, etc....( all the things that should be normal even in a marriage actually, but thing women tend to want to take away from you as soon as you sign )

and she is a 9 at least but freedom, at least relative freedom to me is a 15+

I'll 100% co-sign on this part. That's one of the things I love about my own marriage - there's no questions, nagging, any of that other nonsense. I've never once asked my wife for 'permission' to do anything. It even seems strange to have to comment on that.....but you'd be surprised how commonplace that is.

I go home because I WANT to, not because I have to.

 

[ositosucio]

I'll 100% co-sign on this part. That's one of the things I love about my own marriage - there's no questions, nagging, any of that other nonsense. I've never once asked my wife for 'permission' to do anything. It even seems strange to have to comment on that.....but you'd be surprised how commonplace that is.

I go home because I WANT to, not because I have to.

exactly, I have told my wife this many times, they day I "have to do" something to "make it work" is the day im out the door.

LOt of people say, but a relationship is sacrifice, etc, etc...

BS, i say the second it becomes a sacrifice GTFO. Life is too short and you can get hit by a truck tomorrow.

 

[ositosucio]

this is a picture of us in Cuba.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26600126@N08/6810948484/