I have a question about it. Do you need to be best friends as well as lovers to have a successful long term relationship? I know the friends word isn't very popular here but is combining the 2 the way to a successful LTR?
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
Question about successful LTR's
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"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Best friends? Nah... Special friends, absolutely. It's a completely different type of relationship, it's a partnership.
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.
comic_relief
Master Don Juan
agreed, it goes beyond best friends.Francisco d'Anconia said:
The basic concept is the same though. You must be friends.
comic_relief
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Think about your best friend. How often have you woke up with him sweaty and sticky? Yeah, it's an extreme picture but you don't treat your girl like your best friend. Do you want your girl to treat you like her best friend? Are you going to sit with her on Sundays and watch entire seasons of "Sex In the City" on DVD instead of football? C'mon, you don't see a difference?Answers said:
penkitten
Master Don Juan
the friendship that you share with that person, develops over time.
you do not start off with that special friendship.
many of us think we are supposed to, as in all childhood fairy tales, but it just has to have time to build.
you start with a certain foundation of friendship, and through the course of the relationship and being lovers, it develops into its own kingdom.
you do not start off with that special friendship.
many of us think we are supposed to, as in all childhood fairy tales, but it just has to have time to build.
you start with a certain foundation of friendship, and through the course of the relationship and being lovers, it develops into its own kingdom.
Plain and simple. Yes. I understand what FdA is saying about you don't wake up all sweaty and sticky next to your best friend... but I see it as the same concept.Answers said:
I was talking to my friend Qdawg about the subject and he told his girlfriend that she "wasn't just his girlfriend and someone he hooked up with" she was his "best friend" too.
A best friend is someone who you get along so well with and can say anything to without worrying what they'll think. With your guy best friends, your not gonna be also trying to get with them too, but with girl best friends, that's a legitimate way to look at things.
So if you skipped all that, yes, with MY definition of a best friend, you do need to be just that with your partner for the relationship to last.
comic_relief
Master Don Juan
My girlfriend and me watch football on Sunday.Francisco d'Anconia said:Think about your best friend. How often have you woke up with him sweaty and sticky? Yeah, it's an extreme picture but you don't treat your girl like your best friend. Do you want your girl to treat you like her best friend? Are you going to sit with her on Sundays and watch entire seasons of "Sex In the City" on DVD instead of football? C'mon, you don't see a difference?
I think I choose to use the word "Best friends and then some."
comic_relief
EDIT: Maybe it is just because I go after the tomboys.
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Question for all of the guys (no offence Pen), how many of you are willing to tell your girls all of the things that your best friend know about you? How about talking about all of the things that you talk about with your best friend? How many of you have told your best friends about SoSuave? How many of you have told your girls?
Believe me, if you are with a woman who expects to be your best friend, she'll want to know all of your dirt!!! Anything that you say can be held against you at some point during the relationship!!! Want proof? How many of you realized it was a good thing to divulge how many women you've slept with to your girl?
I can go on fellas but I'm telling you, treating your girl as your best friend is the worse thing you can do. She will appreciate you more if you create something special for her that is hers and only hers. She'll see it as intimacy and you'll see it as sanity.
Believe me, if you are with a woman who expects to be your best friend, she'll want to know all of your dirt!!! Anything that you say can be held against you at some point during the relationship!!! Want proof? How many of you realized it was a good thing to divulge how many women you've slept with to your girl?
I can go on fellas but I'm telling you, treating your girl as your best friend is the worse thing you can do. She will appreciate you more if you create something special for her that is hers and only hers. She'll see it as intimacy and you'll see it as sanity.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
That's just a friend thing (which is good), but when girlfriends want to be your best friend, it's a entirely different thing.comic_relief said:
penkitten
Master Don Juan
how many guys honestly want to know everything a gal tells her best friend? how many want to know every detail about her? how many want to know every detail of every sexual encounter? the information would overload you!Francisco d'Anconia said:
it is best for both of you to have a special relationship that does not share every single detail that made you who you are... but a unique relationship that shares other things.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Damn... It takes a girl to understand....penkitten said:
I hear what you're saying Fd'A and Penkitten but just because somebody is your best friend it doesn't mean you have to tell them everything. I wouldn't tell anybody everything about me.
Also there are things you could talk about with you girlfriend that you couldn't with a male friend.
Also there are things you could talk about with you girlfriend that you couldn't with a male friend.
"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"
Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.
She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.
Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.
So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.
The words come later. The impression comes first.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
The first thing you can do is to stop thinking about an LTR in terms of 'success' or 'failure'. It's not a goal and it's not a pass/fail test. There are plenty of 40+ year marriages where both partners cohabit in utter misery, is that a "success"? There are likewise wonderful STRs where one partner dies or something unavoidable happens and they split, is this a "failure"? The first key to enjoying a healthy relationship is to pull your head out of thinking of an LTR as a goal state.
To answer your other question, it's sex first then friendship. I know guys will come out of the woodwork now to say how shallow this sounds in some effort to claim some kind of moral high ground, but honestly, it's mutual desire that is the glue for a solid relationship. Friendship, companionship, empathy, compassion are all very important aspects in a good LTR don't get me wrong, and I can experience all of these with my mother, brother and best friend, but I have no desire to ƒuck them. Sustained, prolonged desire makes the difference.
To answer your other question, it's sex first then friendship. I know guys will come out of the woodwork now to say how shallow this sounds in some effort to claim some kind of moral high ground, but honestly, it's mutual desire that is the glue for a solid relationship. Friendship, companionship, empathy, compassion are all very important aspects in a good LTR don't get me wrong, and I can experience all of these with my mother, brother and best friend, but I have no desire to ƒuck them. Sustained, prolonged desire makes the difference.
Last Man Standing
Banned
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Your parents are not your friend nor is your "girlfriend" - I assume when you say "lover" you mean "having sex" - having sex has nothing to do with love!
The "Friend" & "Partner" term and concept and the "Lover" term and concept was created and pushed, yes you guessed it, by the feminist movement - as an attempt to corrupt the natural order of things!! Remember - I grew up watching and hearing this bastardization!!
The "Friend" & "Partner" term and concept and the "Lover" term and concept was created and pushed, yes you guessed it, by the feminist movement - as an attempt to corrupt the natural order of things!! Remember - I grew up watching and hearing this bastardization!!
Señor Fingers
Master Don Juan
True..that is usually the progression and very important for AFC's with one-itis for their girl friends to understand.Rollo Tomassi said:
Having said that, I have hooked up with my female friends before and they turned out to be my best relationships.
For example, I was friends for my wife for 2 years before we hooked up.. she had a BF when we met and deflected my best attempts at seducing her, that actually earned my respect and we went on to become good pals. Eventually she dumped the loser and I took full advantage
Have you ever even had a successful LTR? I'm sincerely curious.LMS said:
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Truer words were never spoken.Señor Fingers said:
MacAvoy
Banned
That is irrelevant, the only thing that matters are his principles.Señor Fingers said:
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.