Post College Disillusionment - a rant

[Suicide]

True...interning is one way to get ahead, but I just can't stand kissing ass to a company who expects to offer my services for nothing; I kind of have the attitude that the company should be grateful to have someone like me working with them.

Why? Chances are they have their pick of people, and some of them are better than you. You can learn a lot in an internship, and the connections you make are extremely important. Generally, you should be thankful for the opportunity and take good advantage of it.

There are some **** internships that I agree with you on, but if you find a good one, suck it up and take it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Cool...did you get a job?

I quit UT after junior year because I was too busy with money-making schemes to go to class. I was skipping class every morning to walk to the Hillsborough County courthouse and research mortgage foreclosures. I ended up taking a job as a stock broker for a boiler room firm that did not care if I had a degree. Later, I went back to school and finished the BA, then I ended up getting a job because I had a series 7 stock broker's license, not because I had a degree. Every job I got after that was due to experience and licenses. Eventually I went to law school.

So, to answer your question, no, that degree from a $20,000+/yr school did not get me a job. I am just now starting to pay off the student loans.

 

[sickshawna]

Yea I totally understand...im in college now and im worried

 

[Boston DJ]

you should be able to spend your money on whatever you want.

Then, assuming your employer permits it, spend it on a trading account, and do end-of-day swing trading of stocks or futures. It won't bring meaning to your life, but if you are successful at it, it will bring the freedom to leave your job and find meaning elsewhere.

Obviously I'm not an idiot. There are STRICT compliance policies. My personal trading accounts are watched and verified by my employer. Although, I do what I can

 

[Boston DJ]

Sounds like the exact slave the system wants you to be.


I may be a slave for now but I got a plan (half-baked as it may be) back to more Ivy for the MBA then PE or Hedge Fund work for 15-20 years then I'm out- I'll play the game as long as I have to.

I didn't intend for my post to make me sound completely miserable. I make more than I know what to do with / have time to spend. This is not as cool as I thought it would be when I was in college a few years ago. That being said, I'm investing and charting my path to early retirement...

 

[Boston DJ]

whatever the case may be. you have to stand out. The name of the college can stand out.. the internships can stand out.. your GPA can stand out. your post grad can stand out. SOMETHING has to stand out for you to get your foot in the door.

It's not what you know it's who you know. More truth to that than you guys can imagine. I see it everyday

 

[Suicide]

It's not what you know it's who you know. More truth to that than you guys can imagine. I see it everyday

+1.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Why? Chances are they have their pick of people, and some of them are better than you. You can learn a lot in an internship, and the connections you make are extremely important. Generally, you should be thankful for the opportunity and take good advantage of it.

There are some **** internships that I agree with you on, but if you find a good one, suck it up and take it.

I remember the internship I had at a bank my Junior year of high school. It allowed me to go to school for only half of the day (I worked afternoons), I got business credit for it plus it paid $100 a week. Pretty good for a 16 year old.

 

[Suicide]

Sorry, but that's bull****. The Ivy League is overplayed and overhyped. I go to one, and I know this.

 

[Serialized3]

edit: nm

 

[Mr. Highroller]

It sucks i just graduated and i feel like i may never get a job. For one, I really find the job interview process i find it Degrading, having to suit up and get grilled. I went on a panel interview recently and it was a terrible experience. I was in a room full of over the hill ****s having to put on act for these ladies. they just stared at me with cold looks on their egotistical faces as i answered there questions appropriately. Then they tell me they will get back to me after an hour an a half interview but i never hear from them again despite the fake interest i was given

I am glad i went to college because lots of ppl do give you props. however its not that cool when ppl think you have a great future when you dont

 

[Suicide]

You know, it sounds like everyone here just skated through college and then just expected to be hired solely on the basis of a degree. THAT **** DOESN'T WORK.

These days employers want your GPA, they work work experience during college , they want internships. If you don't have that stuff, you may as well start bussing tables or go to beauty school.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You know, it sounds like everyone here just skated through college and then just expected to be hired solely on the basis of a degree. THAT **** DOESN'T WORK.

These days employers want your GPA, they work work experience during college , they want internships. If you don't have that stuff, you may as well start bussing tables or go to beauty school.

Very true, I'll add another point. What sense does it make to wait until you graduate to look for a job? Do people think that they plus 10 or 20 other people are the only ones graduating and looking for a job at that time?

They're competing with thousands of people doing the exact same thing at the same time. Then you need to take into consideration the state of the economy and the time in the fiscal calendar of the businesses they are applying. Are funds even available? I have to laugh to myself when they wonder why they aren't finding jobs.

 

[Pimp101]

I've done a first year in computer science at two uni's now.

The first one I went to isn't a particularly good university, but it still shocked me with how low the quality of teaching (and learning!) is. By the end of the first year roughly nobody knew how to program. Even the teachers didn't know how to test us. Each problem had a solution checker which ran your code and compared the results it spit out to the correct answers. There was NO quality control on the code AT ALL. I even managed to get a question right with trial and error because I didn't know how to solve the problem properly, but still got FULL marks.

Then I transfered to a much more prestigious uni on a game dev course. Granted that its only been the first year, but the level people are working at there is rediculously low. We had a total of two programming projects for the whole year. I managed to complete them at about an hour a piece. I'm seriously starting to wonder if people just go to uni as an excuse to kill their liver and get a fancy piece of paper as a side-effect. I just consider myself lucky that I'm self taught and don't have to rely on this "education".

I guess my question is, with the right level of training do I really need to complete my degree? Is there any way to just start work without it? It seems like such a waste of my time.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...I guess my question is, with the right level of training do I really need to complete my degree? Is there any way to just start work without it? It seems like such a waste of my time.

If you can prove that your talent is marketable (makes the company money), you could get hired on as long as you are of legal working age (especially if they can pay you at a fraction of the rate of a graduate). As I posted earlier, I started working in a bank before I started university.

 

[Bible_Belt]

do I really need to complete my degree? Is there any way to just start work without it?

I'm not in the computer business but generally speaking, if you can make it as an entrepreneur, you don't need a degree. If you are going to work for a company, then the degree helps a lot, you get paid and promoted more. If you are in doubt, finish the degree, and then even if you go out on your own, having the degree 'to fall back on' takes the pressure off making a new business immediately profitable. You also would have the option of getting a job at a large company right out of school and having them train you, and then later move into private consulting when your experience will command a higher pay.

 

[Effington]

A college degree is worth it

A college degree is not a waste of money.

Yes, there are many degrees out there that do not prepare you to get a specific job, do not set you up to make 40k right away, or seem to help your career at all. What percentage of art majors end up doing animation for Disney, or journalism writers end up working for the Post or Tribune? Not very many.

A degree is still very important, and all because of three words my brother, who is a VP at a Fortune 20 company, stresses almost everyday:

Perception is Reality.

Recruiters perceive applicants with college degrees to be better qualified than those without. It will give you an advantage (or nowadays, simply a requirement to compete) over others for that job. If you browse monster.com or careerbuilder.com, how many quality jobs do you see that do not have "4 year degree" as a requirement? Not that many.

The truth is, a LOT of college programs do not prepare you for job/career. They are a line on your resume that makes you, supposedly, "more qualified" for the spot. I have a business degree from state university in "Operations & Information Management". I am positive I am in no position to handle an IT job, and anyone can be an operations manager. However, since I have the business degree, and more specifically, Operations Management with a strong technical background, it's money. I get an amazing return rate on Operations jobs with my resume, and many recruiters have commented that they liked my "specialized degree", which honestly, was simply a general business curriculum. (I am currently employed in an Operations Management position, but always looking. In fact, it's tough requesting so much time off for all the interviews without looking suspicious.)

Another key aspect a university brings is job opportunities. My current job was found through my academic advisor, and both of my roommates found their jobs through on-campus recruiting. My last month of school I had probably a dozen interviews, all set up through the on-campus recruiting center. How do you think Microsoft or Sun Microsystems finds their employees? They head over to the top IT schools and pick them off. The state university I went to was very strong in accounting, so we have the top firms in the world recruiting there. It's a huge perk. One of my roommates has an offer to work for Price-Waterhouse-Coopers (pending her MBA/CPA), my other roommate now works for Caterpillar, and my brother originally started off with Crowe-Chizek.

Here's another quick application of perception as reality: my high school friend, who also graduated with me at state university, got his degree in journalism. He couldn't find a job in his area of study, so took a job as a bank teller. Well, 8 months later, he beat out 7 other tellers for the promotion, despite much less experience, citing a college degree as the tipping people. I was like, what the F? How does a journalism degree make you more qualified to work at a bank? They perceived him to be more qualified because of it, for whatever odd reason. It's how the world works.

It's dumb, it doesn't make that much sense...but that's how things work. That's why it's worth it.

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

I'd like to know more about your Ivy league experience. Why is it overhyped?

The professors are usually famous/popular and spend their time writing books and doing research instead of teaching the class. If you go to Ivy League you’ll usually end up with teaching assistants. The only good things about going to a famous Ivy League school are connections and landing your first job... Most employers don't really give a sh't about where your degree is from. They care more about your skills, talents and what you have to offer. That said college degree is better than a high school diploma... undergrad on average makes around 40-50 k a year, while a masters will get you 70-80 k! IMO opinion going to college is worth it... if you plan on making more than 30 k, which is the average high school diploma will get you.

 

[belividere]

In my particular field on interest, grad. students make 200/hr. That's right, students. A PhD makes 350/hr.

Also, being an entrepeneur is high risk/high reward. I want to be an entrepeneur, I want to work for myself. But with a PhD, I can guarantee 350/hr as a consultant doing something interesting. This is better than taking a shot at selling junk on ebay.

I'm curious about what grad students make 200/hr and what phd's make 350.

 

[belividere]

^decision theory

I'm not saying that they don't but IME as an engineering phd student I see a new class of starry eyed kids come in every year thinking that they are going to be making bank when they get out. I also see those getting out every year and coming to the realization that they are going to do alright but given the loss of income that they suffered from going to grad school they are at about the same lifetime earning as an engineer with a bs.

Things start to get really specific when you become an engineer, mathematician, or scientist with a phd. The people I've meet who get huge cash out of a phd program do financial engineering as a sub-major, the ones I know did it at mit were they had access to one of the best engineering schools as well as one of the best business schools in the country. As grad students though none of them made 200/hr, actually it was closer to 600/wk living in a very expensive city. And to get into a phd program in a top school like mit you need to stand out of the thousands of amazing applications every year.

Every big school that I know makes the grad students sign contracts (in tech fields) that they will not hold other jobs. I leave those in my mailbox every year but if I did get a second job I could get fired for it. I probably work about 50 hrs/wk now, but for 3 years I was averaging 70 hrs/wk easy getting paid for 20. If your looking to make money I wouldn't suggest grad school to my worst enemy. I would go to law school, or med school, if I wanted to make money.