Perception isn't ALWAYS Reality

[BPH]

The inspiration for this thread comes from my recent conversation working with @nicksaiz65 , which got me thinking about my own experiences. Considering it is the nature of this forum to have an ego when dealing with what they perceive to be disrespect or low interest from women, I wanted to offer this piece of advice.

@nicksaiz65 and I were having a conversation about a girl who matched with him on a dating app. He invited her for drinks and asked for her number, which she politely declined, saying she doesn't drink and isn't in the habit of giving her number out so soon. Before he told me about this, he didn't plan to message her back, as he assumed that was a sign of low interest. I immediately suggested he message her back, stating that until that point she had seemed interested in the conversation (SHE liked HIM on the app...AND messaged first), and provided the reason she was declining. I advised him to offer her an alternative, both in the form of the date (coffee, for example), and in terms of keeping in contact without a phone number (Instagram, Snapchat).

Now, things may not progress...but we don't know that yet. All we know is that by not responding to that message, the conversation is essentially dead, and she now thinks YOU are ghosting HER.

Play it out. You have nothing to lose.

You're not banging her now, so why not keep things going and maybe bang her in the future? Was it low interest, or was she just busy? Is she being difficult, or does she have a reason she doesn't give out her number?

The only thing you're sacrificing is your ego.

You could come here, tell us all a story about how you "didn't tolerate any disrespect" when she dared to suggest rescheduling the date because something came up at the last minute. Maybe your post would get some likes, some high fives, and the approval of unknown internet guys who agreed with your decision.

Or you could get laid.

Your choice.

If I cut off a woman every time I felt that she was ghosting me or showing me signs of low interest, I wouldn't be getting laid nearly as much as I do...

• I wouldn't have fu**ed my long-term FWB again last Wednesday or Friday, or back in August, if I'd assumed she was ghosting me, when in reality, she was busy dealing with family drama.
• I wouldn't have fu**ed the French au pair I bought the hotel room with if I'd perceived her shyness to engage in PDA by not kissing me in the bar as a sign of low interest.
• I wouldn't have fu**ed the hot college chick back in April that wanted our date to be early enough for her to go out with her friends afterwards if I'd stopped responding to her texts when she made that suggestion.
• I wouldn't have fu**ed the girl from the Dominican Republic who was visiting in Philly for New Year's if I'd thought her short, infrequent texts were a sign of low interest, rather than a byproduct of a language barrier.

And these are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head from this year alone. I'm sure there are many more if I decided to stop and think hard about it.

Play it out. You have nothing to lose.

 

[CornbreadFed]

During the first stage of meeting my current SO, she stopped responding to me after the first date. Two weeks later, I sent an "are you alive text" and that led to a second date. This is why I tell men not to obsess over Red Pill dating gurus because they do not represent your reality or date the same women you do.

 

[In2theGame]

Good advice IMO and this is why you guys need to move like "water". Let things roll off of you like waves into rocks.

A Woman may seem to be exhibiting low interest in you or "rejecting" you but honestly, you don't know what's going on in that woman's personal life and her responding awkwardly towards you may have nothing to do with her interest.

It has happened to me many times in the past where I hadn't heard from a girl for a while but then later ended up hooking up with them.

 

[Captain Redbeard]

While I see your point, and I agree that context is very important when it comes to these scenarios in terms of overriding the general wisdom, the general wisdom exists for a reason.

If you have abundance, are you going to be going out of your way chasing women who don't respond to texts or can't comply with something so simple as moving from a dating app to texting? I'll choose to focus on the women who are reciprocating my energy. The funny thing is that some of the women acting goofy will correct themselves and come back around.

When looking at the examples you cited, 2 deal with women from other cultures so that contextual information grants more leeway. The girl dealing with family drama is likely to come back around when things cool off anyway. And for the last girl, having some flexibility in scheduling a date is completely fine and seems like she still was showing interest.

I'm not a fan of all-or-nothing rules, especially when it comes to dating. There are always contexts in which it makes sense to break or bend those rules. We can all cite times when doing so resulted in a positive outcome. But there is a good reason people discuss dropping women who do not reciprocate interest or show low levels of compliance. There are countless stories of men who ignored those signs and ended up disappointed.

 

[Bokanovsky]

A Woman may seem to be exhibiting low interest in you or "rejecting" you but honestly, you don't know what's going on in that woman's personal life and her responding awkwardly towards you may have nothing to do with her interest.

While this is occasionally true, for the sake of your sanity and self-esteem, it's important not to confuse "occasionally true" with "always true" or "usually true". The worst thing you can do is approach every low interest chick with a "what if she's actually more interested than I think?" mindset. 99% of the time, it will lead to you wasting time and obsessing over chicks that want nothing to do with you.

 

[BPH]

If you have abundance, are you going to be going out of your way chasing women who don't respond to texts or can't comply with something so simple as moving from a dating app to texting? I'll choose to focus on the women who are reciprocating my energy. The funny thing is that some of the women acting goofy will correct themselves and come back around.

Oh, absolutely. You should always be talking to other women, and not invested in the outcome of those that you perceive as low interest, or ghosting you.

The point of this thread is that you don't have to go scorched earth when dealing with those things, because you might be wrong.

 

[CornbreadFed]

f you have abundance, are you going to be going out of your way chasing women who don't respond to texts or can't comply with something so simple as moving from a dating app to texting? I'll choose to focus on the women who are reciprocating my energy. The funny thing is that some of the women acting goofy will correct themselves and come back around.

My problem with abundance is that it often disguises a scarcity mindset. For instance, if you have three girls in your bullpen, there’s likely one who stands out as your top pick, and you’ll subconsciously put her on a pedestal to keep her around. The other two, however, may fall short of your standards in some way, so turning to them isn’t ideal. It’s like the Romans relying on the Triarii in battle, never a great sign, no matter the outcome. True abundance should mean replacing her with someone better, not just filling the spot with someone less suitable.

For me, I would rather take the 1-month dry spell than put my dvck through some shameful pvssy.

 

[Solomon]

I think context matters like @Captain Redbeard said, in the above scenario, it's definitely a situation worth re-engaging(although a woman not giving me her number over the age of 30 is a dealbreaker, if she is younger, I'll settle for snap). However, scenarios that PUA's used to push in the past of re-engaging women after a week or month in 2025 is a dummy mission. Women, especially on OLD go on so many dates or have so many options that in a month, they may not remember you in some rare cases, even if they have banged you.

Personally for me it's not about ego it's about cooperation and compliance. Even if I'm trying to just get laid I'm looking for these things, and this is why spinning plates is so paramount because if you have options, a woman not messaging you back, or being low interest doesn't really matter.

If you don't have options, then become a man who has some

 

[BillyPilgrim]

There's usually something wrong with the women who message you first from the apps. If nothing overtly physical or mental, it's usually a sign of ulterior motive (i.e. being picky and insisting on taking things slow and *you* are the target for tedium and scrutiny).

She can't find anyone compatible with all of the guys hitting her up?

 

[tksniper]

I don’t mean to be dogmatic but I try to follow a simple formula - Value - attainability - compliance.

When I know I have value, I’ll make myself attainable. I’ll sit by myself in a coffee shop at a corner somewhere. Instead of trying to be the center of attention at a party (I already have value, why do I need to demonstrate more value?), I’ll chill at a corner by myself while making eye contact with the woman who is mutually attracted to me. Basically I try to make myself as attainable as possible. I know women are deathly afraid of making the first move. The last thing I want to do is put her under social pressure. Basically I want to make myself as attainable as possible. I want to encourage her to seduce me.

And while we are interacting, I’m going to try to get compliance. And it’s usually easy. If I mention a hangout, she’s down. If I mention the gym, she’s willing to work out with me. Whatever I bring up, she’s wants to go along for the ride.

Now when I don’t have compliance, it just means I haven’t established enough value in the interaction yet. Some women want commonalities and some connection before they comply. Some women dont want to appear and feel easy.

So I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and try to seek some commonalities and forge a genuine connection.

This is often where most guys who lack experience mess up. They think the girl is playing games. Some are, but not all. It’s worth a shot connecting with her on a level beyond sex.

Now after I’ve established that we are both attracted to each other and we have genuine chemistry and connection and she is still playing hard to get, that’s when I’ll hit the “abundance” eject button and move on.

Probably the biggest key is to figure out what is unique and interesting about HER, not you. A lot of guys have ego issues and think the entire interaction is about them. If she feels you are all about yourself and haven’t known anything about her she might reneg and go backwards. Not always. Some women are sloots. But some women need some form of genuine connection.

 

[The Duke]

I don't disagree but always ask yourself....If I was George Clooney would she be saying no?

In my younger years when I was less experienced I was a lot more persistent as discussed above but as i got older I learned it wasnt worth it. I'm not looking for someone that isnt sure. The girl that doesn't want you to get with another girl isnt going to make excuses. Either she is in or she is out. It's a way to screen for high interest, and high interest girls are a lot less flakey and more straightforward.

Just how I roll. Onto the next one, there are always more. Keep the supply line primed and the low interest girl can take a new number and go to the back of the line. I might call her when I get bored if I don't have anything better.

 

[SW15]

@nicksaiz65 and I were having a conversation about a girl who matched with him on a dating app. He invited her for drinks and asked for her number, which she politely declined, saying she doesn't drink and isn't in the habit of giving her number out so soon. Before he told me about this, he didn't plan to message her back, as he assumed that was a sign of low interest. I immediately suggested he message her back, stating that until that point she had seemed interested in the conversation (SHE liked HIM on the app...AND messaged first), and provided the reason she was declining. I advised him to offer her an alternative, both in the form of the date (coffee, for example), and in terms of keeping in contact without a phone number (Instagram, Snapchat).

The biggest problem with interactions like these is that they are all done behind electronic screens. It's so difficult to assess interest and intent with only words on an electronic screen.

This is why in-person methods of finding dates and sex partners are better. While in-person methods have their challenges, the level of difficulty in assessing interest is reduced.

Play it out. You have nothing to lose.

I disagree. Too many bad interactions from playing out low probability scenarios will cause a loss in self-esteem and confidence.

I would rather be selective and make efforts where I think my probability of success will be higher.

This idea is at the core of a Thrill of the Hunt vs. Pleasure of Sex framework that I've mentioned on here before.

Thrill of the Hunt oriented men (like yourself and @nicksaiz65) are more likely to play out situations because of enjoying the hunt for sex. I dislike the hunt for sex. I like having sex.

Men are either Thrill of the Hunt (TH) oriented or Pleasure of Sex (PS) oriented. There are degrees of TH and PS. Someone can be more mildly TH and some TH men are more extreme TH.

Two Types of Men: Thrill of the Hunt or Pleasure of Sex – Updated for the 2020s - Alpha Male 2.0

Reading Time – 10 minutes This is an update to one of the most important techniques and concepts I’ve ever conveyed to my audience. Once you fully understand what I’m about to explain to you, your dating and relationship life with women will be much...

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A lot of discussions and debate in seduction come down to worldview of TH vs PS.

In the general population, I think there are more PS oriented men than TH oriented men. On this forum, I think TH men are overrepresented.

 

[plumber]

I don't disagree but always ask yourself....If I was George Clooney would she be saying no?

In my younger years when I was less experienced I was a lot more persistent as discussed above but as i got older I learned it wasnt worth it. I'm not looking for someone that isnt sure. The girl that doesn't want you to get with another girl isnt going to make excuses. Either she is in or she is out. It's a way to screen for high interest, and high interest girls are a lot less flakey and more straightforward.

Just how I roll. Onto the next one, there are always more. Keep the supply line primed and the low interest girl can take a new number and go to the back of the line. I might call her when I get bored if I don't have anything better.

this works if you have abundance. if not, then trying to get/keep every small opportunity.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I like this advice, it's good for pushing interactions. Nothing came from the woman from the app(it's the dating apps tho lol) but there is nothing to lose. My goal is to get laid as much as possible.

 

[BadBoy89]

a girl who matched with him on a dating app. He invited her for drinks and asked for her number, which she politely declined, saying she doesn't drink and isn't in the habit of giving her number out so soon.

Guy: Would you like to for drinks? Could I get your phone number to text you?
Girl: "Sorry, I don't drink and don't usually give out my number so soon."

Before he told me about this, he didn't plan to message her back, as he assumed that was a sign of low interest.

I agree with him.

You don't consider that response low interest? That response tells me "You are not hot enough or important enough for me to give out my number. I'm Very Sexy. Try harder."

I advised him to offer her an alternative, both in the form of the date (coffee, for example), and in terms of keeping in contact without a phone number (Instagram, Snapchat).

You don't think SHE should have countered with an alternative? It seems like she is making him jump though hoops.

I don't know man, you have the experience in here but if a girl said that to me, I would delete the number. I don't think that's scorched earth or ego, I think in 2025 a man has no patience for this. It's like "honey, you messaged him first on a dating app where you are allegedly looking to meet attractive guys. You found him attractive. He showed interested to meet up and you declined."

That tells me, she has NO interest in meeting him. She is just looking how a single guy online dating site acts and behaves; she wants to check out his game.

 

[Vanderdonck]

A lot of factors involving timing and availability go into a sexual hookup happening or not. It's not always about you. As long as you're clear minded and not simping or obsessing, a ping costs virtually nothing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[jhonny9546]

This post is confusing.
I understand your desire to express your opinion, but women are fickle.

There are couples who are falling apart, break up, and get back together, but then children are born and they get back together. Not for their own benefit, but because they receive external validation for their new choice.

When a couple makes a choice and isn't validated, they often fail.
This is why finding people who don't need external validation is so difficult, and if you find it, you should keep it.
You could make plans together.

As for dating, things are even more fickle.

But the key point is what OP says: "Play it."
It has nothing to do with disrespect; that's another matter.

But of course, each of us creates opportunities for ourselves, but when we see that we've tried and tried again, and that the other side doesn't "give us back," then it's right to walk away.

Or we could always decide to be doormats, just like many men who stay in a relationship with a single woman because they have children with her.

You don't have to.
You can go out whenever you want, but if you do, it's because you want to, not to "play it out" again.

Nothing is at stake in couples. Once respect for a person is lost, it never comes back, and if it does, it's a joke, folks. It's a lack of alternatives.

 

[Solomon]

Guy: Would you like to for drinks? Could I get your phone number to text you?
Girl: "Sorry, I don't drink and don't usually give out my number so soon."



I agree with him.

You don't consider that response low interest? That response tells me "You are not hot enough or important enough for me to give out my number. I'm Very Sexy. Try harder."



You don't think SHE should have countered with an alternative? It seems like she is making him jump though hoops.

I don't know man, you have the experience in here but if a girl said that to me, I would delete the number. I don't think that's scorched earth or ego, I think in 2025 a man has no patience for this. It's like "honey, you messaged him first on a dating app where you are allegedly looking to meet attractive guys. You found him attractive. He showed interested to meet up and you declined."

That tells me, she has NO interest in meeting him. She is just looking how a single guy online dating site acts and behaves; she wants to check out his game.

Asked for a woman's number yesterday, she offered her snap, I just unmatched, IME any woman that gives you her snap is not serious about meeting they just want validation and attention

 

[In2theGame]

While this is occasionally true, for the sake of your sanity and self-esteem, it's important not to confuse "occasionally true" with "always true" or "usually true". The worst thing you can do is approach every low interest chick with a "what if she's actually more interested than I think?" mindset. 99% of the time, it will lead to you wasting time and obsessing over chicks that want nothing to do with you.

Can't say I disagree with what you said because yes, some Men may become a persistent pest, thinking that if they try harder, they will raise her interest if its genuinely low.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I tallied the advice from the last two posts about women asking to reschedule meetups. Both dates happened, and one ended in a kiss and the other didn’t get a second date. Advice was split: roughly 50% said go with the flow, 50% said disengage.

The takeaway is that people handle low-investment women differently, and their threshold for interpreting low interest and deciding when to disengage varies often creating confusion. The truth is you cannot lead if she isn’t influenced by you; there will always be other players in the game, higher priorities in her life, and moments when her moods shift.

It’s naïve to think you won’t encounter restrictions or obstacles over the course of a seduction, regardless which method someone employs.