Outcome independence and assuming interest

[Chamber36]

It takes a great deal of a certain mental strength to balance the two. I just started fvcking a HB8/HB9. Was going crazy in agony yesterday and today as it seemed she had lost interest although i had the idea i wanted to experience more.

Just got a message from her though. While i was going mad i was thinking about the importance of the concept of outcome independence. We all know that term if we have spent any time studying the game. Now after i received the message, after accepting that i had lost the girl, im sitting in a bar, in a still somewhat meditative state, and there is this old crazy drunk guy talking to me.about how i should be confident that it's coming to me. I mean i guess he means it karmically. But i dont mean to discredit what the fvcker is saying when i say he's crazy, but there is something profound in expecting the best to come to you and yet being outcome independent. It seems like a paradox.

How do you solve this paradox? Screen the girls, i guess. And being a bit more scrupulous. Expecting the best and not accepting anything less? I dont know. We all go through the ups and downs of women and the women that are available to us.

So sometimes there is a lack of abundance.

Just wanted to post as i had this profound insight that it can be seemingly contradictory to expect the best and being outcome independent.

Maybe someone can share some wisdom.

Peace and blessings upon you guys all my naggers.

 

[user43770]

It's human nature to think that good things are coming your way. It's one of the things that keeps us from killing ourselves.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Screening is just another way of saying we need to keep in control of our desires/ passions. This is not repression but restraint. They need to know who is boss. A person with their passions out of control is soon an addict of some sort, who is no longer free but enslaved.

 

[Chamber36]

I have spoken to my prostitute friend who says she is using me for sex apparantly which greatly helps me being more outcome independent lol.

Also i will be forced to secede power to the girl if she is the one using me then all i can do is agree or disagree.

She is now the actor and all i can do is react. Meanwhile i will just try and **** other girls. I've split my head over this chick too much. And why? Because she swallowed my sperm. I should have added 2 and 2 together the moment she started sucking me balls.

Im just not used to being used for sex. Which threw me off and ask for clarification which is super reactive and feminine. At least now i have more perspective. It seems like Im being used for sex. I guess i must be. Not bad. At least i know now

 

[cola]

You think too much.
You already f*cked her. You've won.
If she calls she calls. If not her loss, right?

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

These concepts are closely related. When you have intrinsic self belief you gravitate naturally toward both assumption of interest AND outcome independence.

Here's why. You know yourself to have value, worth and something to offer someone else. Because you KNOW and UNDERSTAND your own value you know also that it does not diminish your value if someone does not recognize your value as it relates to them. That has everything to do with them and nothing to do with you.

So it is a waste of energy to fret about such things. You cannot exert control over someone else's preferences or criteria.

For example I'm 48. Quite over the hill according to many here. Ok. If someone disqualifies me because of my age, it doesn't bother me at all. There is nothing I can do about my age, therefore it would be a waste of energy to worry about it.

There are plenty of men who DO find me appealing at my age so I am well served to circulate in those circles where people appreciate who I am and what I offer. No need to self flagellate over something I can't modify.

In the same way I assume interest on the part of the man unless and until his actions show me something different. Why? Because I know I've been pleasant & encouraging and engaging and I know I've done nothing wrong.

I don't worry about how often we communicate or through what medium. I'm very busy...the men I see are likewise very busy and it's been my experience that a little room to breathe is a wonderful thing. Now if communication falls off then it falls off. Perhaps he got busy, perhaps he met someone else, perhaps I met someone else, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps. There is no sense wasting energy hamstering over all the possibilities.

When you have strong inner game (which is self love, self belief, and self awareness), you can exist in the present moment and enjoy it fully.

You no longer create fantasy scenarios and scripted expectations. Rather you let things flow. You also observe the other person's behavior and you calibrate your responses based on what IS. You release the notion of should. Upon another person should is the placement of expectation, scolding & dissatisfaction. Upon oneself should is a shaming word, a word of procrastination and abdication of responsibility.

Get "should" out of your vocabulary and out of your mentality. Exist in will and will not.

When you deeply value yourself you'll find a natural tendency to exist in this way and life will become lighter and better because YOU have become more aware & more true to yourself.

 

[RangerMIke]

She's only one chick. You already had her... onto the next one. If she want's more, she'll let you know, otherwise you are spending too much time worried about one chick.

 

[BeExcellent]

Having said all the above I should also mention that we must not become delusional about the value others see or do not see in us.

So if a person is grossly overweight, broke, negative or etc., those things REQUIRE mitigation in order for us to be better appreciated by others.

You can be perfectly happy being obese and broke...but you need also to recognize the way others see you & how that affects your interactions with others.

In other words improve yourself for yourself and the way you are seen by others will improve as a natural by product.

 

[Chamber36]

Great advice. Great advice from the old lady.

I've ordered a few books and already finished one yesterday to help me figure out what's wrong with my inner game and the expectations I have of other people. (Mark Manson and David Deida. Books I've read before years ago).

It's helping a little but I just feel "sorry" for lack of a better term, because I would have liked to show her more aspects of my personality.

You see, I was conscious of the fact that during our last interaction I showed a little bit too much weakness. I was expecting to see her the following friday, and I knew that in order to balance things out I would have to show her a bit of strength. Well, she didn't show up and she didn't text me. It was the first flake, after 5 dates.

And I really really tried my best to handle it well.

The way I handled it though wasn't true to myself as I was following the advice of 3 people at the same time. Even during the relationship (even if only a few weeks).

So that's why I feel bad. I have regrets. Because I didn't really show her my genuine self a lot of the time.

I was simply intimidated. She was too goodlooking. She was too good in bed. She was too sweet. Too irreplacable.

So I couldn't handle it. I tried to follow people's advice. And that's what made me incongruent. And I'm sure that's what confused her and turned her off.

Because in the beginning, my friend told me "do this". Then when it turned out she actually saw through some of it and considered me really sweet & cute. I was sort of overly releived that she appreciated that side of me and expressed a little too much happiness over her liking me for being sweet & cute. So I showed a bit too much weakness there. And I'm sure that my placing expectations on her scared the fvck out of her. All she really wanted was some fun. Some no-stress sex with an articulate dutchman who could speak good english and show her the city and have a nice time.

In the beginning I played it by "if she says no I will respond with OK". Once I had expectations though, it just turned into a fvckup. Especially mixed with the incongruence of listening to 3 people's advice at the same time. If I had been genuine I could at least have determined we could escalate on a genuine level of intimacy and trust or not.

So I'm just gonna read, study, gym, work-in-da-club.

Almost called her just now. Just to ask her how she's doing. I'll do it when my inner game is stronger.

 

[Urbanyst]

This has been the year of epiphanies for me. I've had many since I first joined this site in January. I recently came to the conclusion that you will enjoy dating HOT women much more when you start assuming they will leave NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. That's right.

Takes a lot of the pressure off and you can start actually having FUN. Its not about spinning plates like I used to think. Its about letting go and not trying to control what other people do. You just have your fun and treat it like a game.

Dating HOT women is like fishing. Sometimes you catch something special. Like a fish.. a HOT woman needs space to roam. If you keep it in the bucket it either tries to escape or dies (just like a relationship with a hottie).

The trick is to just enjoy what you caught, take some cool pics with it and keep living your life. Maybe it will swim away, maybe it won't. Don't worry about it.

 

[Chamber36]

This has been the year of epiphanies for me. I've had many since I first joined this site in January. I recently came to the conclusion that you will enjoy dating HOT women much more when you start assuming they will leave NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. That's right.

Takes a lot of the pressure off and you can start actually having FUN. Its not about spinning plates like I used to think. Its about letting go and not trying to control what other people do. You just have your fun and treat it like a game.

Dating HOT women is like fishing. Sometimes you catch something special. Like a fish.. a HOT woman needs space to roam. If you keep it in the bucket it either tries to escape or dies (just like a relationship with a hottie).

The trick is to just enjoy what you caught, take some cool pics with it and keep living your life. Maybe it will swim away, maybe it won't. Don't worry about it.

I didn't even take any pics

 

[BeExcellent]

I was simply intimidated. She was too good looking. She was too good in bed. She was too sweet. Too irreplaceable.

So I couldn't handle it. I tried to follow people's advice. And that's what made me incongruent.

It happens. You stumble across a woman who honestly IS what you are looking for and what you'd really like to have and the rub is spending time with someone like that does make you acutely aware of your own need for growth in whatever area. You see your own shortcomings in contrast to your perception of hers (and she has some...we all do). And at that moment you have what I've seen referred to elsewhere on this site as the ultimate shlt test. The fact that she IS as solid a person as she IS raises the stakes and increases your skin in the game.

She's THAT good...how good are you? Are you GOOD ENOUGH? And this sense of "Am I good enough" gets the better of people. Every time.

And the ultimate shlt test never ends. And that's not a bad thing. It simply means that you become acutely aware in your own opinion that you are outclassed in some way. When ever we feel outclassed we are going to display behavior we will kick ourselves for later.

So as you note dear Dutchman, the only way to overcome this is to actually BE better and develop more solid intrinsic inner game. You know this already. The fact that you met and had a successful (for a while until the "Am I good enough" BS got you) series of interactions with a girl you view as a good one means you are close. Keep developing. You might pull this one yet. And if you don't you'll get another one like her soon enough, because of WHO YOU ARE becoming.

Cheers.

 

[marmel75]

It happens. You stumble across a woman who honestly IS what you are looking for and what you'd really like to have and the rub is spending time with someone like that does make you acutely aware of your own need for growth in whatever area. You see your own shortcomings in contrast to your perception of hers (and she has some...we all do). And at that moment you have what I've seen referred to elsewhere on this site as the ultimate shlt test. The fact that she IS as solid a person as she IS raises the stakes and increases your skin in the game.

She's THAT good...how good are you? Are you GOOD ENOUGH? And this sense of "Am I good enough" gets the better of people. Every time.

And the ultimate shlt test never ends. And that's not a bad thing. It simply means that you become acutely aware in your own opinion that you are outclassed in some way. When ever we feel outclassed we are going to display behavior we will kick ourselves for later.

So as you note dear Dutchman, the only way to overcome this is to actually BE better and develop more solid intrinsic inner game. You know this already. The fact that you met and had a successful (for a while until the "Am I good enough" BS got you) series of interactions with a girl you view as a good one means you are close. Keep developing. You might pull this one yet. And if you don't you'll get another one like her soon enough, because of WHO YOU ARE becoming.

Cheers.

Maybe he should evaluate what criteria he is using to judge women by. I mean, just because a woman is hot doesnt mean she isnt a loser. If too much emphasis is being placed on her looks then a lot of other behaviors or flaws are going to get swept under the carpet. If you are just looking for a fling then cool, its not a big deal, but clearly that isnt what you were looling for...

Just remember...being hot doesnt make yoy a good person. It just makes it more likely others will give you those traits, justified or not

 

[BeExcellent]

Maybe he should evaluate what criteria he is using to judge women by. I mean, just because a woman is hot doesnt mean she isnt a loser. If too much emphasis is being placed on her looks then a lot of other behaviors or flaws are going to get swept under the carpet. If you are just looking for a fling then cool, its not a big deal, but clearly that isnt what you were looling for...

Just remember...being hot doesnt make yoy a good person. It just makes it more likely others will give you those traits, justified or not

I agree with you 110%. He had said she was good looking, good in bed, had a sweet disposition and was "too irreplaceable".

He said he was intimidated. When you are with someone who you find both initimidating and irreplaceable you are in a position of feeling "less than" or not good enough.

Yes he might need to evaluate the kind of woman he dates and no looks aren't everything...but I got the impression he was off balance because she was a beautiful and yet nice person who was also good in bed.

That's a relatively hard trifecta to run across, considering the market as a whole.

 

[marmel75]

I agree with you 110%. He had said she was good looking, good in bed, had a sweet disposition and was "too irreplaceable".

He said he was intimidated. When you are with someone who you find both initimidating and irreplaceable you are in a position of feeling "less than" or not good enough.

Yes he might need to evaluate the kind of woman he dates and no looks aren't everything...but I got the impression he was off balance because she was a beautiful and yet nice person who was also good in bed.

That's a relatively hard trifecta to run across, considering the market as a whole.

All i can say is hopefully he tore her apart in the bedroom...it would be even worse if he knew he held back when he had the chance due to being intimidated by her...