one tough martial arts teacher!

[Rudra]

@Rudra - QUANOUYF! ICBPWUALTAATUTI.






(Translation for the non-idiot: Quit using acronyms no one uses, you fagg0t. I can't believe people who use acronyms like this are allowed to use the Internet.)

QFT = Quote for truth, you nimrod.

 

[Suicide]

When there are no rules, no number of black-belts will put, say, a 50 year old man or woman on equal footing with a 25 year old jock twice his/her size. Even a knife or a baseball bat doesn't quite do the job. There is only one great equalizer.

I don't think that's necessarily true or false--it's entirely dependent on the training of the individual in question. Sweeping generalizations really have no place in the discussion of martial arts.

 

[speakeasy]

When there are no rules, no number of black-belts will put, say, a 50 year old man or woman on equal footing with a 25 year old jock twice his/her size.

Yeah maybe...maybe. But let's say you have two people of the same age, but the smaller guy is a martial artist? I mean look at these clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OlNydhcwA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ6mSz80oz4&mode=related&search=

This is how most people fight. Swinging wildly, sloppy takedowns. I mean if any of these guys had known even just a little jujitsu, they would've pwned the guy they were fighting once it fell to the ground. And notice how many of these fights ended up on the ground. Just goes to show how important it is to have some grappling under your belt. I'd go as far as to say that boxing and grappling is all you really need to be effective at brawling on the street.

 

[squirrels]

QFT = Quote for truth, you nimrod.

My point exactly, I had no idea what the acronym meant. I thought it meant "quit fvcking talking". Your decision to use an obscure acronym completely lost the meaning.

Sorry for flying off. Next time, spell it out.

 

[squirrels]

Yeah maybe...maybe. But let's say you have two people of the same age, but the smaller guy is a martial artist? I mean look at these clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2OlNydhcwA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ6mSz80oz4&mode=related&search=

This is how most people fight. Swinging wildly, sloppy takedowns. I mean if any of these guys had known even just a little jujitsu, they would've pwned the guy they were fighting once it fell to the ground. And notice how many of these fights ended up on the ground. Just goes to show how important it is to have some grappling under your belt. I'd go as far as to say that boxing and grappling is all you really need to be effective at brawling on the street.

The thing that a lot of people lose track of, though, is that fighters in UFC are in the same weight class. If you weigh 140 pounds, your jiu-jitsu is going to be nullified against a 300lb linebacker who can just power-curl out of your arm-bar. Assuming you can even get him to the ground to begin with. Sure, with your weight in the right place you can throw someone that big, but good luck getting into that position without making yourself very vulnerable.

I'd take a guy who grew up getting into REAL fights, who may swing wildly but knows how people move and can both GIVE and TAKE a punch over someone whose entire fighting experience is in some gym somewhere. Regardless of style. In many cases, raw aggression can make up for a lack of technical skill. We'd all like to think that there's the grand-master Steven Seagall movie-character type who can instantly nullify any incoming attack and make it look like he's not even trying. I would like to meet such a person, myself.

Believe me, I have respect for the martial arts. But when there are no rules, the winner is usually the fighter who fights dirtiest...the one who takes advantage of everything and anything available to him. You're big, you use your size. You're smaller, you use your agility. You call on any techniques available to you, and also any tools, up to and including drawing a gun and changing your assailant's attitude right then and there...WITHOUT pulling the trigger in most cases. Just the THREAT of a bullet trumps any martial art.

And if someone is crazy enough to come at you even then...better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Suicide]

Believe me, I have respect for the martial arts. But when there are no rules, the winner is usually the fighter who fights dirtiest...the one who takes advantage of everything and anything available to him. You're big, you use your size. You're smaller, you use your agility. You call on any techniques available to you, and also any tools, up to and including drawing a gun and changing your assailant's attitude right then and there...WITHOUT pulling the trigger in most cases. Just the THREAT of a bullet trumps any martial art.

And if someone is crazy enough to come at you even then...better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

You are all confusing MMA and rule bound martial arts with "real" martial arts. Believe me, there are many systems of martial arts that fight in a completely dirty, winner takes all manner.

 

[Rudra]

My point exactly, I had no idea what the acronym meant. I thought it meant "quit fvcking talking". Your decision to use an obscure acronym completely lost the meaning.

Sorry for flying off. Next time, spell it out.

Sorry for the nimrod

Good quote by the way.. the one about better being tried by 12 than.....

 

[speakeasy]

You are all confusing MMA and rule bound martial arts with "real" martial arts. Believe me, there are many systems of martial arts that fight in a completely dirty, winner takes all manner.

In my Krav Maga school, they teach eyegouging methods. and strikes to the throat. So I know what ya mean.

 

[Master Bates]

MMA is designed to conform to UFC rules, period. Take it out of the octagon and it's a whole different story.

The same applies, if not more so, to other martial arts.

UFC is boring as hell. For 2 guys who know their sh!t, all the UFC is is a race to see who can get the other guy on the mat and wrestling until one can choke off the other's air supply.

For as good as Gracie was, all it took was Ken Shamrock to drag him to the floor and wait for an hour or so until he tired out.

It says a lot about which styles are truly effective in a real fight. Of course UFC isn't a real fight and has to conform to rules, but so does boxing, wrestling, a judo match, a karate match, etc. At least MMA involves a broad and dynamic range of styles, from striking to grappling and chokes.

 

[Suicide]

The same applies, if not more so, to other martial arts.

A handful of other martial arts. Not all of them, not by a longshot.

 

[lookyoung]

You will not find any one in the UFC who claims one style as his own. Chuck Liddell has a black belt in Karate. I'm sure he has incorporated some of that Karate training into his overall style when he throws his occasional kick. As for TKD, I've seen the reverse back kick work in the UFC and that is taken from TKD. Pretty much every martial art has at least some moves that would be effective in the cage.

I think the problem with something like Kung Fu is that the moves are too complex for most people to pull off with the speed necessary to use in an MMA environment. Personally, just using my jab and cross, I can throw out about 4-6 punches within one second. Straight up boxing style punches are very effective AND quick. A Kung Fu guy may be able to hit hard with his complex kicks, but you can see them coming from a mile away unless he's very fast. Plus the Kung Fu stance doesn't work well in MMA, neither does the TKD stance. Both have the fighters sort of turned to their side with their weight on their back leg. TKD punches are horrible(I too TKD in highschool), sh*t like punching from the hip. Straight up wack.

I have seen at least one style of Kung Fu that looks pretty damn impressive to me, Wing Tsun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM676yGD_5w&mode=related&search=

It doesn't matter if he has a blackbelt in karate. Do you think he still trains in karate. The answer is NO. Its boxing, muythai, Wrestling, bjj. That is what every single fighter trains in.

Watch the early UFC's. Do you think a 170 pound karate master would have beat kimo, or ken shamrock. NO WAY.'

If karate or kungfu or TKD were effective arts than you would see at least one fighter who trains in these arts actively with moderate success in MMA. There are none.

 

[dirtyvibe]

I am 5"11 190 pounds and a blue belt in brazilian jiu-jitsu. I bet you a 100,000 dollars I would crack his fvcking head.

Do you think these karate, kung-fu idiots could take on a real mma fighter.
No way.

I would take a highschool football linebacker to embarass him. He is just a punk bully.

Bruce lee himself was a phony. He was all myth. Get a guy like bj penn and he would kill bruce lee.

The gracie family has revolutionized martial arts. Bruce lee did not do anything for martial arts he was a conman.

Doubt it, the guy in that vid is a former King of Pancrase.

 

[Bonez]

I love seeing some grapplers fight. Watching their pathetic strikes and horrible footwork is pure comedy.

Last week I saw a guy land something like 20 punches straight into the guys face without getting touched. The guy who was throwing the punches backed down because he thought the other guy was "a crazy mother ****er", the grapplers friends kept yelling "your ****ed if he gets a hold of you man". It was so hilarious I almost pissed myself.

 

[Incremental]

Just to keep things a bit clear I thought I'd post some distinctions.

MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is not a style of Martial arts, it is an approach to martial arts that incorporates many styles into something unique and wholly owned by the individual. In theory, no MMA fighter should have a style that mimics any other MMA fighter.

Bruce Lee. Obviously lookyoung doesn't know a thing about the man. He was a revolutionary in many areas and he never stopped improving upon his thoughts, beliefs, training methods, and skill. One of the things he shed new light on was martial arts. His style Jeet Kun Do was his blending of the various fighting styles he had learned. There's so much more to this guy. Go read a fvcking book instead of a wiki entry.

UFC is very much in love with Greco Roman wrestling. Mostly because it easily and effectivly conforms to the rules of the tournament. UFC is a entertainment art that can be used for combat within it's boundries. In a real street fight you are probably screwed.

State of Martial Arts and playing dirty. I recommend the book the Martial Way. It's concise and presents the reader with the proper mindset needed to approach the martial arts as they are today. Regardless of weather you want to score points and trophies or increase your confidence and prepare yourself for real combat.

 

[speakeasy]

UFC is very much in love with Greco Roman wrestling. Mostly because it easily and effectivly conforms to the rules of the tournament. UFC is a entertainment art that can be used for combat within it's boundries. In a real street fight you are probably screwed.

Yeah, but remember, the original UFC was the closest thing to a street fight back when there were no holds barred.

 

[Suicide]

State of Martial Arts and playing dirty. I recommend the book the Martial Way. It's concise and presents the reader with the proper mindset needed to approach the martial arts as they are today. Regardless of weather you want to score points and trophies or increase your confidence and prepare yourself for real combat.

Assuming we're talking about the same book (Living the Martial Way), I'd second that recommendation. It's a good read.

 

[lookyoung]

Uh, where do you think all of those techniques came from? The Gracies didn't invent any of them. You'll see them all in traditional Jujutsu ryh-ha that came along hundred of years before the Gracies.

Not to say that I don't respect the Gracies, I've trained with Royce and Renzo. They may have modernized it, but a Gracie figher will still get their ass kicked by a seasoned traditional jujutsu-ka.

The only guy who has really done some innovative things with MMA since the Gracies is Randy Couture. He'll have a style named after him one day. That said, you obviously know nothing about real martial arts or the UFC. MMA is designed to conform to UFC rules, period. Take it out of the octagon and it's a whole different story.

Randy couture will never have a style named after him one day. If it was not for the gracies there would be no randy couture. There would be no UFC.

There were blackbelts in karate that could not even escape or apply a rear naked choke. They were fvcking clueless on the ground. Watch UFC 1,2,3,4,5,6. Once these so called karate masters hit the floor they were clueless. They didn't know the guard or the mount. They were a total joke. A 2 stripe white belt in bjj had a better ground game than them.

You say I know nothing about martial arts I train 4 times a week. I roll with guys twice a week. I have watched every ufc. I have read books on Bruce lee.

LOL you say take ufc out of the octagon and its a whole different story. Any UFC fighter would kick the crap out of any blackbelt in karate or jeet kune do or any of those other arts on the street I guarantee.

UFC FIGHTERS ARE Explosive. Karate guys are not. And you say you understand martial arts.:crackup:

 

[lookyoung]

Bruce Lee. Obviously lookyoung doesn't know a thing about the man. He was a revolutionary in many areas and he never stopped improving upon his thoughts, beliefs, training methods, and skill.

UFC is very much in love with Greco Roman wrestling. Mostly because it easily and effectivly conforms to the rules of the tournament. UFC is a entertainment art that can be used for combat within it's boundries. In a real street fight you are probably screwed.

Bruce lee never fought anyone. He was never in a real fight. The gracies in brazil fought and challenged anyone for the last 50 years.

Obviously you don't watch the UFC. It is not just greco roman wrestling. IT IS MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. Look at how any mma fighter trains. They will incorporate the 4 arts.

BOXING- for handspeed and punching. Hands are the quickest way to strike someone.
Brazilian jiu-jitsu- Most fights end up on floor. You need a ground game.
Wrestling- Take downs and a dominant position.
Muythai- for knees, elbows, and short effective kicks.

 

[MMA Juan]

I agree with BlackWidow here str8 out. I do MMA, and one thing I have learnt from years of training is to have discipline.

Martial arts in all forms and sizes all teach discipline, and for that I give them all respect. So fvckin what if one's better than the other, everyone is different and some people are gonna be better than other people at different martial arts.

If you do a martial art and you learn discipline and respect than that's what's gonna make you a better person, if you train and it turns you into a ****y cvnt than you gotta realise that there's always someone better out there

 

[Suicide]

Randy couture will never have a style named after him one day. If it was not for the gracies there would be no randy couture. There would be no UFC.

There were blackbelts in karate that could not even escape or apply a rear naked choke. They were fvcking clueless on the ground. Watch UFC 1,2,3,4,5,6. Once these so called karate masters hit the floor they were clueless. They didn't know the guard or the mount. They were a total joke. A 2 stripe white belt in bjj had a better ground game than them.

You say I know nothing about martial arts I train 4 times a week. I roll with guys twice a week. I have watched every ufc. I have read books on Bruce lee.

LOL you say take ufc out of the octagon and its a whole different story. Any UFC fighter would kick the crap out of any blackbelt in karate or jeet kune do or any of those other arts on the street I guarantee.

UFC FIGHTERS ARE Explosive. Karate guys are not. And you say you understand martial arts.:crackup:

If you had even read my post you would have noticed that I pointed out the Gracie's contribution. I only said that since them, Couture is the only guy who has done innovative things with MMA.

I have trained with the Gracie family. I have many friends who still do. I made a choice to study a martial art that wasn't MMA. Anyway, there are many better places to argue about which martial art is better on the internet than sosuave. People like you who train "four times a week" are a waste of our time. Try spending fourty hours a week in the dojo training like those of us who do it for a living, and then we can argue. Or not argue, since we tend to regard people like you as ones who will never "make it" in the martial arts, MMA or otherwise.

I think martial arts--any style--are a great thing for some guys here on sosuave. I only hope they don't listen to amateurs like you and generate their opinions of the martial arts based on your narrow, foolish ramblings.

And believe me, none of the top UFC guys have your pathetic elitist attitude. Feel free to ask them yourself.

Anyway, if any of you guys have real questions about any of the martial arts, martialtalk.com used to be a pretty good place with people who knew what they were talking about. I can't tell you if it's degraded since I used to frequent it or not, though. E-Budo.com is good if you're interested only in the Japanese arts.