On the "Red Pill", disillusionment and total freedom. (Also, a question for Rollo.)

[speed dawg]

REAL independence does not come from not working or not needing, it comes from being needed. The more intangled that I am in everyone's success the more invauablle I am, the more independent i can afford to be...............Still make more money than probably everyone here being honest.

See, this is why the majority of board gets annoyed with you. You can make good points, like the first sentence I quoted. But then you make some arrogant statement like the 2nd, and then dribble out 35 paragraphs about obscure details of your life that nobody cares about.

K-I-S-S. Keep it simple, stupid.

 

[HoneyHitter]

See, this is why the majority of board gets annoyed with you. You can make good points, like the first sentence I quoted. But then you make some arrogant statement like the 2nd, and then dribble out 35 paragraphs about obscure details of your life that nobody cares about.

K-I-S-S. Keep it simple, stupid.

Speed dawg, I get what you're saying about backbreaker and you're definitely not the first to mention it on this board. I agree that bb may be stepping on a few people's toes with his boasting around here. However, you make it seem like his behaviour is a problem. It's not. It's natural male behaviour.

Insecure people make it a problem when someone else is boasting about whatever he owns or achieved. They have a problem. It's called inferiority complex. They need help.

But I guess it's easier to point at someone else, than to face the man in the mirror. Especially when other people are pointing in the same direction.

 

[PlayHer Man]

The smart / happy people don't try to get out of doing working for someone else, they figure out how to make as many people as much money as they can.

that's the difference between me the guy who owns the web development company and my employees who just work to get paid. I want everyone I work for to be wildly successful. I will rebuild a site for free if I think we can do it better. I've done that before.

REAL independence does not come from not working or not needing, it comes from being needed. The more intangled that I am in everyone's success the more invauablle I am, the more independent i can afford to be.

Half my work just about comes from past clients. I don't even have to roll out of bed to get half my company's work anymore, clients go out of their way to bring it to us. That's independence. I can play with my son, play with the wifey all day long and still make money. Still make more money than probably everyone here being honest. And that took a lot of hard, roll up your sleeves, what.. when did I start this company.. 2007, that's 6 years of working on weekends, working on holidays, working for free to get to the point where I am now where I can be indpendant if i so chose.

If you have a WIFE then you are far from independent. All married men are slaves to their wives and the state.

Sorry to bust your bubble. Your woman owns HALF of everything you own and 100% of you. :crackup: :crackup:

 

[zekko]

See, this is why the majority of board gets annoyed with you. You can make good points, like the first sentence I quoted. But then you make some arrogant statement like the 2nd, and then dribble out 35 paragraphs about obscure details of your life that nobody cares about.

Backbreaker may be guilty of arrogance and bragging, but it's the little details and stories from his life that make his posts interesting, and sets him apart.

If you have a WIFE then you are far from independent. All married men are slaves to their wives and the state.

Sorry to bust your bubble. Your woman owns HALF of everything you own and 100% of you.

At least BB can relate to a woman at a level beyond being a dark, moist hole.

The too common story on this forum is a loser, supposed "nice guy", comes here, reads about women, and decides to do a 180 degree turn and become a "jerk", swear off all emotion and decide to see women only in terms of sex. For this, they are roundly applauded by the forum. But the truth is, they've only traded in being one type of loser for another type of loser.

 

[( . )( . )]

Insecure people make it a problem when someone else is boasting about whatever he owns or achieved. They have a problem. It's called inferiority complex. They need help.

Bullsh!t, that's EQUALIST shaming under the guise of "insecurity". You can spot accomplished men a mile off. The ones who rabbit on incessantly about it are not. Sure I admit there's a time and a place for the odd self congratulatory post but BB goes above and beyond that. The reason alot of guys here get jack of BB has nothing to do with their insecurities, It's simply a case of the guy appears to be full of sh!t and it becomes annoying turning decent threads into the BB show for some of us, hijacking threads to write sizeable essays how awesome he is is weak sauce. Most men with a semblance of self awareness can spot that sh!t instantly.

Good post btw EastWind, The red pill can be very hard to swallow, if it wasn't hard to put down it wouldn't be the truth. Still beats blue pill obliviousness though, that stuff may appear (through years of indoctrination) easier to take but it's still poison to a man.

 

[speed dawg]

At least BB can relate to a woman at a level beyong being a dark, moist hole.

More shaming. Titty man handled the first white knight.

The too common story on this forum is a loser, supposed "nice guy", comes here, reads about women, and decides to do a 180 degree turn and become a "jerk", swear off all emotion and decide to see women only in terms of sex. For this, they are roundly applauded by the forum. But the truth is, they've only traded in being one type of loser for another type of loser.

I honestly think some of you have the IQ of a grapefruit.

 

[user43770]

Getting back on track

Eastwind, I'm dealing with the same issues as you. I've been going over all of this stuff in my head for a while now. Like you, I've read several books and I occasionally look for wisdom from some of the older members on this forum. I'll offer my advice, for whatever it's worth.

Hypergamy is a b1tch. That's all I got on that one.

As for working, I think it can be one of the greatest pleasures in life, but only if you can discover your passion. If you can find what you are most suited to do and then work towards mastering it. Women aren't sh1t compared to having something to strive for.

Having said that, I have yet to find what I'm meant to do and I feel completely lost because of it.

 

[PlayHer Man]

At least BB can relate to a woman at a level beyong being a dark, moist hole.

The too common story on this forum is a loser, supposed "nice guy", comes here, reads about women, and decides to do a 180 degree turn and become a "jerk", swear off all emotion and decide to see women only in terms of sex. For this, they are roundly applauded by the forum. But the truth is, they've only traded in being one type of loser for another type of loser.

So any man who just wants to have sex and not get into a "serious relationship" is a loser? :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

I see women for the purpose they serve in my life. To some people a car is only for getting from point A to point B. To others its much more. To some people a dog is just a security system for their house. To others its much more. Who the f*ck are you to judge?

That's one of the biggest feminist/white knight statements I've seen here in a while bro.

How about you explain this claim. WHY is a man a "loser" for only wanting to have sex and stay single? Do tell..

 

[EastWind]

So any man who just wants to have sex and not get into a "serious relationship" is a loser? :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:

I see women for the purpose they serve in my life. To some people a car is only for getting from point A to point B. To others its much more. To some people a dog is just a security system for their house. To others its much more. Who the f*ck are you to judge?

That's one of the biggest feminist/white knight statements I've seen here in a while bro.

How about you explain this claim. WHY is a man a "loser" for only wanting to have sex and stay single? Do tell..

I'm going to have to disagree about the "biggest feminist/white knight statements in a while" thing.

My feeling is that zekko was pointing out that the guys he's talking about are only swapping one partial blindness for another. If you swear off all emotion and see women only in terms of sex, you will get blindsided sooner or later. If you see them in terms of all they are, but then decide only to value the sex side of them, it's a completely different thing because you will be accounting for all the other parts, even if you only "use" them for sex. Which, by the way, I'm not judging, it's totally up to you. Seriously.

The key point, I feel, in all of this, is the ability to make conscious, free and informed choices. If you end up in the corporate rat race in a boring or tedious job because you've been told that's the way the world works or there's no other way to live, then you're ****ed even if you end up making lots of money because you're trapped in a very narrow mindset. Most importantly, you are not free. If you end up in a poisonous relationship because you can't picture any other way to ever have female company, or if you get your ass handed to you emotionally by women all the time, because you've been told you should cherish women and <insert the usual crap here>, then you're ****ed, but in a way, it's not your fault.

Of course we don't get tired out pointing the finger at the stupid, stupid men who get caught and fail to see the light, but I know first hand how a situation can seem to be without any escape because you've simply never been taught the concept of "more than one truth." I'd like to point out that most of us here had to come to this forum to be able to escape from the depths of society's painted picture of women and relationships... how many of us could have climbed out of there totally on our own? We do feel vastly superior to all the other men but it would do us good to remember our beginnings.

Anyway. More and more I get the feeling that whatever way you chose to live your life is fine as long as you make free choices. Going into the corporate rat race is fine if you know what it entails, what you hope to win through it and that there were alternatives. But it's equally fine to try and find your passions, even if it means not making a killing.

What is being taken away from us today, and that feeling is part of the reason I started this thread (the other, of course, being the red pill with respect to women), is the possibility to explore our passions. We're groomed to spot something we can do well and is paid well, then forced to keep doing that for the rest of our lives for the "good of society", never mind if there's other things we can do well or like to do more if they make less money.

Similarly, if a guy is aware of the workings of hypergamy, of the female imperative and the likes, he can make a free, conscious choice. He can chose to stay single and have a string of women go through his bedroom. He can chose to take his chances with hypergamy and date and marry a girl (or just stay with one).

Why would anyone who's read all about the red pill, all of Rollo's, all of Roissy's make that choice, you ask? Well, because we're all prone to think we've found "the exception to the rule". Of course this forum is full of guys who thought they had found just that.

I dunno. Life is full of risks, and who is better prepared for the rocky path of a relationship with a woman than a guy who knows the inner workings and is expecting all the bumps, and the cliff at the end? At least you can pack a para-glider and enjoy the fall.

I think the key might be to be free of facades, games and pretense. One of the comments I linked to in my first post by Mark Minter starts with him quoting some "alpha guru"'s descriptions of what it means to be alpha in a marriage, how you have to constantly be in alpha mode so the relationship doesn't fall apart. He rightly concludes that this description is full of crap. The thought of having to be constantly working at keeping her interested is sickening. It's only a different version of the "uninformed beta male" game (flowers, gifts, money, etc.) In both cases you are going out of your way because of what someone told you is vital to keeping a girl interested.

Finding your dream job and a girl who won't leave you for the next hotter thing despite her hypergamy seems to be a matter of total honesty with oneself at this point. If you keep re-affirming that you won't be taken for a lazy guy who minds working hard for whatever cause, don't be surprised if you find yourself in a hard job that offers you no satisfaction. If you keep displaying hardcore "alpha properties", don't be surprised if you find yourself with a girl who leaves you as that facade starts to crack.

Possibly, if you start being honest with yourself about what you really want, you might stop pretending to like certain things and admit to liking other things, and that might just lead you to meet people like you, who will be GLAD they've found someone just like them, which might eventually lead you to find people with the same passions and possibly a job (or occupation) in that direction.

So much for the job/passion part. As for the women/hypergamy part, I'm not sure. I don't doubt the concept for one moment but the question is how to deal with it. Stay single for the rest of my life? Certainly more attractive than constant fighting. But not really satisfying. Of course, finding my passion in life might relieve me of a sizable chunk of my desire for a woman.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

This is very well put. As to the certain class of women out to steal your money, I'm still unsure whether there's any other class, the mysterious "quality woman" who truly sees the relationship as "the two of us will conquer the world".

Well, just like everything else, there's two opposite extremes, and most everything else in the middle.

As society makes it easier and easier for women to get the benefits without following through on the commitment, you've just got to be better at protecting your assets.

The world is still filled with cause and effect situations. You just gotta be on top of your game, with eyes and ears open, in all areas, to plan your life accordingly based on what you want to get out of it.

Whining and moaning won't help much.

One of the reasons they call economics the "dismal science":

Everybody's got unlimited wants, but there are limited resources. Not everybody's gonna get what they want.

 

[zekko]

That's one of the biggest feminist/white knight statements I've seen here in a while bro.

Posters here love to pull out the feminist/white knight insult for anyone who disagrees with their own narrow view of the world. Unoriginal and not even remotely on target in this case.

How about you explain this claim. WHY is a man a "loser" for only wanting to have sex and stay single?

Nothing wrong with wanting sex. Nothing wrong with staying single.
But it is PUA Bro Theory 101 that the Nice Guy and the Jerk are two sides of the same coin, and that neither is ultimately successful.

What I am against is guys who get all butthurt because of some failure with women, then decide to purge themselves of all emotion in an effort to never get hurt again. This has always seemed cowardly to me. Don't want the little wannabe PUAs to get their little feelings hurt.

Like it or not, women are more than merely moist slits for your penis (although some deserve to be treated as such). I don't say this to protect them, I'm just stating fact. To say that they are is just as wrong as women who say that men are only sperm donors and wallets.

I dunno. Life is full of risks, and who is better prepared for the rocky path of a relationship with a woman than a guy who knows the inner workings and is expecting all the bumps, and the cliff at the end? At least you can pack a para-glider and enjoy the fall.

This is largely the way I view things. I'm not convinced there is a way to avoid the cliff (besides, relationships don't have to last forever). But you can avoid most of the bumps by screening correctly.

Stay single for the rest of my life? Certainly more attractive than constant fighting. But not really satisfying

I've lived with my girlfriend for over 10 years. I can count on one hand the number of arguments we've had. We simply don't fight. She's very laid back and mellow, like I am. You don't have to have the fighting if you choose well, EastWind.

 

[PlayHer Man]

I'm going to have to disagree about the "biggest feminist/white knight statements in a while" thing.

My feeling is that zekko was pointing out that the guys he's talking about are only swapping one partial blindness for another. If you swear off all emotion and see women only in terms of sex, you will get blindsided sooner or later. If you see them in terms of all they are, but then decide only to value the sex side of them, it's a completely different thing because you will be accounting for all the other parts, even if you only "use" them for sex. Which, by the way, I'm not judging, it's totally up to you. Seriously.

The key point, I feel, in all of this, is the ability to make conscious, free and informed choices. If you end up in the corporate rat race in a boring or tedious job because you've been told that's the way the world works or there's no other way to live, then you're ****ed even if you end up making lots of money because you're trapped in a very narrow mindset. Most importantly, you are not free. If you end up in a poisonous relationship because you can't picture any other way to ever have female company, or if you get your ass handed to you emotionally by women all the time, because you've been told you should cherish women and <insert the usual crap here>, then you're ****ed, but in a way, it's not your fault.

Of course we don't get tired out pointing the finger at the stupid, stupid men who get caught and fail to see the light, but I know first hand how a situation can seem to be without any escape because you've simply never been taught the concept of "more than one truth." I'd like to point out that most of us here had to come to this forum to be able to escape from the depths of society's painted picture of women and relationships... how many of us could have climbed out of there totally on our own? We do feel vastly superior to all the other men but it would do us good to remember our beginnings.

Anyway. More and more I get the feeling that whatever way you chose to live your life is fine as long as you make free choices. Going into the corporate rat race is fine if you know what it entails, what you hope to win through it and that there were alternatives. But it's equally fine to try and find your passions, even if it means not making a killing.

What is being taken away from us today, and that feeling is part of the reason I started this thread (the other, of course, being the red pill with respect to women), is the possibility to explore our passions. We're groomed to spot something we can do well and is paid well, then forced to keep doing that for the rest of our lives for the "good of society", never mind if there's other things we can do well or like to do more if they make less money.

Similarly, if a guy is aware of the workings of hypergamy, of the female imperative and the likes, he can make a free, conscious choice. He can chose to stay single and have a string of women go through his bedroom. He can chose to take his chances with hypergamy and date and marry a girl (or just stay with one).

Why would anyone who's read all about the red pill, all of Rollo's, all of Roissy's make that choice, you ask? Well, because we're all prone to think we've found "the exception to the rule". Of course this forum is full of guys who thought they had found just that.

I dunno. Life is full of risks, and who is better prepared for the rocky path of a relationship with a woman than a guy who knows the inner workings and is expecting all the bumps, and the cliff at the end? At least you can pack a para-glider and enjoy the fall.

I think the key might be to be free of facades, games and pretense. One of the comments I linked to in my first post by Mark Minter starts with him quoting some "alpha guru"'s descriptions of what it means to be alpha in a marriage, how you have to constantly be in alpha mode so the relationship doesn't fall apart. He rightly concludes that this description is full of crap. The thought of having to be constantly working at keeping her interested is sickening. It's only a different version of the "uninformed beta male" game (flowers, gifts, money, etc.) In both cases you are going out of your way because of what someone told you is vital to keeping a girl interested.

Finding your dream job and a girl who won't leave you for the next hotter thing despite her hypergamy seems to be a matter of total honesty with oneself at this point. If you keep re-affirming that you won't be taken for a lazy guy who minds working hard for whatever cause, don't be surprised if you find yourself in a hard job that offers you no satisfaction. If you keep displaying hardcore "alpha properties", don't be surprised if you find yourself with a girl who leaves you as that facade starts to crack.

Possibly, if you start being honest with yourself about what you really want, you might stop pretending to like certain things and admit to liking other things, and that might just lead you to meet people like you, who will be GLAD they've found someone just like them, which might eventually lead you to find people with the same passions and possibly a job (or occupation) in that direction.

So much for the job/passion part. As for the women/hypergamy part, I'm not sure. I don't doubt the concept for one moment but the question is how to deal with it. Stay single for the rest of my life? Certainly more attractive than constant fighting. But not really satisfying. Of course, finding my passion in life might relieve me of a sizable chunk of my desire for a woman.

Eastwind.. overall this is a golden post and probably worthy of being in the DJ bible. The stuff in Blue is especially golden. The stuff in Red is the only stuff I don't agree with.

A lot of people fall into that trap of thinking if they are totally honest with others they will be rewarded for it. This is false. The real rule for honestly is: To thine own self be true.. but feel free to lie to others. The movie Liar Liar (1997) ..as goofy and stupid as it is, points out exactly why total honestly is a failed policy. The key is not to lie to yourself and not to be delusional.

When it comes to dealing with others.. both historically and in 2013.. all that matters is the fruits that you bare. If you're failing in life, or if you seem to get no respect, it's because society is full of people who need things. They need houses built, they need food to eat, they need entertainment, they need fulfilling sexual relationships. If you don't provide for others what they need.. then you're SOL.

The entire concept of money is based on this. The reason a rich person doesn't have to "work" is because he provides MONEY for others. If he wants a new car.. the dealer or manufacturer needs his money before he can get it. If he wants food, the farmer or chef needs his money first.

This is the rule of nature AND the rule of human interaction. Nice guy? Never forget your mothers birthday? Always say please and thank you? Never tell a lie? Have good morals? Cheat on your girlfriend? Suck at math? NO ONE GIVES A SH!T unless you can provide them with something they need.

What you can do for people is the ONLY thing that matters to them. What about love and kindness? Don't those things matter? Of course. As long as they result in you doing things for people that they can't get elsewhere.

This is the logic behind my view of women. I don't sugar coat it. I'm fully aware that women are "people" and more than just several holes. But the holes are all I need from them. So why should I care about the other stuff? A deep relationship with a woman does nothing for me because I have no desire for one. If a woman commits to me because she can't do better or because I'm tall or because I'm rich or because I have muscles, that's fine as long as I get what I need from her. The minute I'm not getting what I need, I will leave (and so will she once she is no longer getting what she needs).

The entire concept of deep relationships is mostly media propaganda from Disney movies. We love others provided they give us something we need and cannot get in a better form elsewhere. That is as "deep" as human relationships go. This is why Zekko's shaming needed addressing.

 

[speed dawg]

Like it or not, women are more than merely moist slits for your penis (although some deserve to be treated as such). I don't say this to protect them, I'm just stating fact. To say that they are is just as wrong as women who say that men are only sperm donors and wallets.

You get what you pay for, pal. If a woman wants respect, she can earn it.

 

[PlayHer Man]

Posters here love to pull out the feminist/white knight insult for anyone who disagrees with their own narrow view of the world. Unoriginal and not even remotely on target in this case.


Nothing wrong with wanting sex. Nothing wrong with staying single.
But it is PUA Bro Theory 101 that the Nice Guy and the Jerk are two sides of the same coin, and that neither is ultimately successful.

What I am against is guys who get all butthurt because of some failure with women, then decide to purge themselves of all emotion in an effort to never get hurt again. This has always seemed cowardly to me. Don't want the little wannabe PUAs to get their little feelings hurt.

Like it or not, women are more than merely moist slits for your penis (although some deserve to be treated as such). I don't say this to protect them, I'm just stating fact. To say that they are is just as wrong as women who say that men are only sperm donors and wallets.

See my response to Eastwind above.

I don't see how my view of women as pleasure holes has any affect on your life bro. Do you really care that much about my happiness that you are genuinely concerned about how I view women? I doubt it. Does my view of women stop you from getting laid or having a good relationship with a woman? NOPE.

So maybe you should ask yourself why you are so threatened by how I see women. Its clearly about YOU bro. I hit a nerve with that statement that threatens your comfort level. The TRUTH often hits a nerve. Perhaps you see the statement as demeaning to your own relationships because you don't want to see yourself as a "sucker" or "slave" to your woman. You don't want to feel like a faggot for paying for something men like me get for free (and with no emotional investment) :crackup:

Ask yourself why my views bother you so much when they have NO affect on your life whatsoever.

 

[samspade]

See my response to Eastwind above.

I don't see how my view of women as pleasure holes has any affect on your life bro. Do you really care that much about my happiness that you are genuinely concerned about how I view women? I doubt it. Does my view of women stop you from getting laid or having a good relationship with a woman? NOPE.

So maybe you should ask yourself why you are so threatened by how I see women. Its clearly about YOU bro. I hit a nerve with that statement that threatens your comfort level. The TRUTH often hits a nerve. Perhaps you see the statement as demeaning to your own relationships because you don't want to see yourself as a "sucker" or "slave" to your woman. You don't want to feel like a faggot for paying for something men like me get for free (and with no emotional investment) :crackup:

Ask yourself why my views bother you so much when they have NO affect on your life whatsoever.

I don't think zekko feels like a sucker or anything else for his choices. But you do have a point - your views are and should be irrelevant to his happiness, and vice versa. It is up to the individual to decide the best path for himself.

This thread is really about freedom, anyway. I think the OP is worried about falling into Identity Traps. The bottom line is you choose your path based on what's best for you. If it's marriage, that is fine. If it's to be a player, that's fine too. There are always consequences and it pays to understand them. But if a man is living the player lifestyle but deep down he wants to be married, he's not truly free if he's not pursuing that goal. And vice versa.

 

[vatoloco]

Observe.

Realize.

Learn.

Improvise. Adapt. Overcome.

Live.

Love.

Do not let anger and despair consume you. After that, you will be on the path to Enlightenment...

 

[backbreaker]

I don't think zekko feels like a sucker or anything else for his choices. But you do have a point - your views are and should be irrelevant to his happiness, and vice versa. It is up to the individual to decide the best path for himself.

This thread is really about freedom, anyway. I think the OP is worried about falling into Identity Traps. The bottom line is you choose your path based on what's best for you. If it's marriage, that is fine. If it's to be a player, that's fine too. There are always consequences and it pays to understand them. But if a man is living the player lifestyle but deep down he wants to be married, he's not truly free if he's not pursuing that goal. And vice versa.

see now we are cooking with gas.

the correct at least in my mind, answer is that there is no such thing as a protyptical DJ. there are emo DJs, there are musclular DJs, there are rich DJs there are poor djs, there are butt ugly djs, there are pretty boy djs (like me lol), there are married DJs, there are single DJs.

DJ, red pill, whatever you want to call it, to me is not a status it's a mind frame.

it's realizing that you can be anything youw ant to be, do anything you want to do. whatever it is. swallowing the red pill to me means that you get to take off the shackles that society puts on you and you get to play by your own rules. whatever the hell those rules may be. you don't ant to get married, DON'T. you dated this chick for 3 years and you don't want to spend the rest of your life to her you don't owe her jack **** buddy. if you want to shun women and work on yourself you don't have to think any less of yourself as a man beucase you aren't getting any. That's what this site, the red pill means to me. It means not putting ***** on a pedestal, doing things, whatever those things are, that are in your best interest, and not societies or what you think people think you want to do.

it's funny, some guys from time to time will make jabs about me bieng married. lol i've been single on this forum for a longer amount of time than just about everyone in this thread. But even with me being married, if it weren't for this site, even if i would have met my now wife, and gamed her, which iw ould not have lol but let's assume I did, i would never have never had the courage to marry her, even though I knew deep down I wanted to after a certain piont, b eucase i would have been too worried about what my mother and her family thought about me marrying a woman outside of my race, or bringing home a mixed child. and we took some **** but you know what, **** em. it's my ****ing life not yours and you are either in or out. i'm past the point of giving a **** letting people tell me how i should or should not live my life today. that's what it's about. married, single or whatever.

guys who come here, and ***** about marriage, or ***** about single guys for that matter, ***** about a certain entity, are missing the forest in the trees on the subject.
​

 

[samspade]

Good point.

And conversely, if he wants to be married, and he gets married......but then continues life only while under the good graces of State endorsed misandry.......he still isn't free.

What is a red-pill aware man to do?

I can't speak for everyone, but my aim is to keep the government out of my life as much as possible. I already find it galling that I had to pay it tribute first to get married and then to get divorced. I'm not pleading ignorance - I knew what I was doing. But having gone through it I know now more than ever that a life lived free from that kind of interference is a much better one.

The majority of anti-marriage talk in the manosphere is aimed at the government and the tactics it sanctions. The good news is it can't make you get married. The question of freedom then boils down to freedom from pressure from society and family to tie the knot. (Or to buy property. Or to have kids. Or to go to college. And on and on.) Well nobody can make you do those things.

It's not about committing to a woman you love. It never was. It's about the third party and the contract. Hollywood hacks write screenplays where the Devil himself talks a man into a Faustian bargain. In real life the government doesn't even have to do the selling. It just sits back and rings the register. Society does the sales job and there are a lot of marks out there. Free yourself from all that nonsense and you'll be much happier. If you want to get married, do it on your terms 100%.

 

[zekko]

I see women for the purpose they serve in my life. To some people a car is only for getting from point A to point B. To others its much more. To some people a dog is just a security system for their house. To others its much more. Who the f*ck are you to judge?

You were the one who was mocking Backbreaker's life choice to be married. While I am no advocate for marriage, that was specifically what I was responding to. Who's judging who?

So maybe you should ask yourself why you are so threatened by how I see women. Its clearly about YOU bro. I hit a nerve with that statement that threatens your comfort level. The TRUTH often hits a nerve. Perhaps you see the statement as demeaning to your own relationships because you don't want to see yourself as a "sucker" or "slave" to your woman. You don't want to feel like a faggot for paying for something men like me get for free (and with no emotional investment)

Ask yourself why my views bother you so much when they have NO affect on your life whatsoever.

You're right, your views have no effect on my life whatsoever. My motivation for posting what I did was to provide an alternative, so that younger, inexperienced guys reading this forum don't think that they have to adopt such a jaded attitude.

Again, I have no problem with single men having sex with women, or avoiding relationships. But regarding people as nothing more than "dark, moist holes" strikes me as unnecessarily sociopathic. Although that's probably what you were going for, so job well done.

 

[EastWind]

First, thanks to everyone who replied. Discussing this helps tremendously.

Part of my problem certainly stems from the fact that once I had read all of the "material", or rather, as the realizations set in, the feeling of "you have to change everything right now" set in. This, of course, stems from the fear of getting sucked in if things stay the way they are right now.

It's probable this will have to stew for a while. I already have a feeling of tremendous freedom, but I'm frustrated at being unable to do anything about it right now. I don't have the tools or the experience to see the ways I can change things. But I do have the knowledge now, and I expect this will enable me to see things differently as they come along, that is, my assessment of a situation will change.

As for the whole women thing... Marriage is of no real concern to me. I do want to find a woman I can spend my life with, and the Red Pill ™ has robbed me of the certainty that there could be such a woman. But, at the very least, it's also stripped away any remaining urges to be a "certain kind" of guy just to find a particular type of woman. I am who I am now, certainly my personality will change and evolve over time as I experience new things.

Let's see what the future has to offer.