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On Leadership in Relationship

2Rocky

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BE, as a father to three girls, I've felt that it was my role that they are not helpless in adult tasks. Not that I expect them to DO all the traditionally male tasks, but to be able to if needed. How to know if a mechanic is bull****ting her, to be able to buy the right parts in town if needed, how to use a rifle or pistol safely. I also expect them to be able to clean up and be "ladylike" in social settings.

I think that as they choose their mates they will be able to recognize a man who is capable and a good leader....Unless the old saying is true that they will look for someone who is the opposite of their father. My oldest, has picked a guy who is very much like I was as a 20 year old...we don't have a good relationship.

I do know in my youth I was taught to defer to the woman and "be a nice guy". Second time around I realized I can still be a nice guy but be firm with my desires and choices. I think it is important that a mother foster the attitude in her son that he will need to be an independent thinker and not a) coddle him and baby him and b) not be overruling and domineering.
 

BeExcellent

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To avoid this looking like a personal attack against BeExcellent, I'll go on record by stating that I have *many* flaws. We all have them.
Some male forum members will own their imperfections... while other male forum members are in denial. The latter are easy to spot -- they look for opportunities to accuse members (usually new members confused and looking for help) of being "beta"

I was mainly curious if (unlike so many women) she was able to recognize her own imperfections and appreciate what her boyfriend overlooks as well.

There's an old saying:
Men marry women; hoping she won't change.
Women marry men; hoping he will.
To address the points raised by @Black Widow Void and @Augustus_McCrae which are fair...

Of course I have flaws. I have some of the same flaws as my guy to varying degrees. My BF always says he is not perfect. He isn’t, but neither am I.

I’m not sure why this is salient. Nobody is perfect. Not me, not my BF, not my kids, not anyone.

I am a high quality woman. I am sought after. So is my BF. But that doesn’t mean we are either one flawless or perfect.

We understand one another and get along famously. We are quarantined together in fact...enjoying good food, conversation, playing cards & board games, hanging out with my children, keeping up with friends. Not every couple can spend time together 24/7 without grating on each other. We are going on 2 solid weeks together non-stop with other family in close proximity. We are doing fine.

I’m not going to list things that are flaws...because the list is subjective. I have things that I work on in myself just as other self aware people have such things.

We all have things to improve. There are no exceptions in this.
 

BeExcellent

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BE, as a father to three girls, I've felt that it was my role that they are not helpless in adult tasks. Not that I expect them to DO all the traditionally male tasks, but to be able to if needed. How to know if a mechanic is bull****ting her, to be able to buy the right parts in town if needed, how to use a rifle or pistol safely. I also expect them to be able to clean up and be "ladylike" in social settings.

I think that as they choose their mates they will be able to recognize a man who is capable and a good leader....
Agree 100%. I was taught to be utterly self sufficient by my father, who had 4 daughters. We all learned self sufficiency. We also learned manners and grace & etiquette and what was expected there.

But I’ve got rifles and shotguns and ammo too. If I need to hunt, kill, and field dress a deer or some quail to make dinner? I CAN. But if I leave the hunting to my man & he leaves the cooking to me? So much nicer for all involved.

Cheers
 

2Rocky

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Personally I'm happy to help with some aspect of fixing the meal, as well, because I was raised to not sit back while others are working. (Male or Female). I remember my gf being astounded when I started prepping stuff for her as she was making her signature dish. I saw stuff that needed done, and I DID it.

Sometimes the "More action and less talk" nature of my personality gets me in trouble. But I see that as leading by example. if you know your strengths, lead with them to complement your partner. It is why the men dip the women when dancing...
 

Black Widow Void

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I’m not sure why this is salient.
The reason is because the image you project on the forum is that you (and your boyfriend) are of more 'top-shelf' quality (which is fine, of course) . However, there seems to be an imbalance. From observation, you do seem to provide a balance for your boyfriend (mentioning his flaws from time to time). However, I've not seen this same balance when it comes to recognizing your own flaws.

From reading your postings, it sounds like you make concessions for your boyfriend's flaws. Though you've not mentioned this, I was betting that this works both ways and that he also makes concessions for yours.

My theme here actually reminds me of another forum member (now former) - Biggoal.
Like him or not (to anyone reading this) he was probably the most transparent forum member. He was willing to admit his lifestyle short-comings and failures with women.

I suspect that there are a lot more forum members that embellish their image than not.
 

image

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BeExcellent

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The reason is because the image you project on the forum is that you (and your boyfriend) are of more 'top-shelf' quality (which is fine, of course) . However, there seems to be an imbalance. From observation, you do seem to provide a balance for your boyfriend (mentioning his flaws from time to time). However, I've not seen this same balance when it comes to recognizing your own flaws.

From reading your postings, it sounds like you make concessions for your boyfriend's flaws. Though you've not mentioned this, I was betting that this works both ways and that he also makes concessions for yours.

My theme here actually reminds me of another forum member (now former) - Biggoal.
Like him or not (to anyone reading this) he was probably the most transparent forum member. He was willing to admit his lifestyle short-comings and failures with women.

I suspect that there are a lot more forum members that embellish their image than not.
Again as I stated earlier some things are a matter of opinion.

Some men find my ambition and drive to be an asset...others find it intimidating.

Same can be said of other traits. Successful men could in many instances be categorized as controlling or as know it alls. Some are intellectual snobs.

It all depends on frame of reference. I work on being tolerant and patient as I have had in the past a history of a short fuse. That has improved immensely over the last ten years, most appreciatively following my divorce (go figure), and it was after my divorce that I had to recalibrate back to the type of man I was raised around.

So again, flaws are relative.

The point of the post 4 years ago which is still true today is that men need to embrace the masculine leadership role in relationships. This is as true now as ever.

Irrespective of my personal traits.
 

Black Widow Void

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@BeExcellent

I appreciate your response. Hopefully, you'll not take this personally, but as I stated earlier, "stereotypes exist for a reason" and your two followups have further validated my claim.

From reading your two followup responses, there seems to be very little acknowledgement that you carry any similar degree of flaws as your boyfriend; which you've mildly openly, criticized from time to time.

You almost admitted to (at one time) having a "short fuse" ... but then you allude that this was more the fault/result of your former husbands doing ...than that of you taking personal ownership of said flaw.

And.. this isn't being posted as a personal attack toward you. I make concessions for women (including you) because... I don't think that women can help their behavior (lack of self-accountability).

I am providing this current followup for the men. Some members here are searching for answers. Some are readhers here and not members. The less experienced (and still impressionable) may still hold the belief that women can help a man better themselves more than their fellow man. Sexist as it may seem, I think women are wired differently and therefor are about as qualfied to speak for a man.. as I am qualified to speak for a woman.

While I think it's great that a woman is comfortable posting here (and I'm convinced that we have at least one other woman posting as a man here) , remember... men, they are still women. And the beautiful creatures that they are, do not expect them to always offer you sound advice on being a man. They process things differently (as illustrated in my above example).
 
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Lynx nkaf

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I appreciate that Beexcellent is straightforward and is ready to admit flaws(selfaccountability)

Its interesting to read BWV's viewpoint too. He's right in that women are wired differently and admittedly do historically? (typically?)have difficulties admitting mistakes and taking responsibility.

Personally, I'm grateful to be able to read and comment in this forum openly and I wouldn't feel honest just lurking surreptitiously.

Many decades of work conversations with men who are dealing with many of the topics posted here.
I have had to wing it in how to respond to coworkers with verbal support. I wish I knew about this forum 20 years ago. I would have had a blueprint of what to say.

When you've got a dude you're working in close contact with, in dangerous, precarious workday situations who happens to be going through devastating divorce rape because of the ex-b!tch's hypergamy, for one example,...you want to be able to say something that keeps his focus on the task at hand and alleviates his worry and depression at least during working hours. You just know the dude's not going to a doctor about this stress in his personal life(years and years ago people never sought help for mental health they just complained to coworkers or hopefully friends they may have had outside of work-or not)so guess what, the coworker becomes the mental health first aider by default. To keep yourself from being injured inadvertently even, you try to listen and help. Solipsistic and narcissistic of me, but we both stay safe for the workday just by me listening to the dude kvetch. I just wish I had words/phrases like "frame" and "next" and "purpose" and "hypergamy doesn't care", back then.
The other benefit I get from this forum is a readjusting of my own frame and understanding what just happened in my last relationship and admitting where my character defects contributed and taking responsibility in order to improve. And Do. The. Work.
I don't know females my age who would be willing to learn openly on a public forum. Wish we had more here.
 

Black Widow Void

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@Lynx nkaf

Despite a certain 'code' among many men, I freely offer apologies when it's applicable (no matter if to a male or female).

In my above posting, I only acknowledged BeExcellent as the only (known) current female post person. Apologies here for not also acknowledging your current female presence as well.
 

BeExcellent

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The consensus of the board has been, over the time I have been here, that the advice I offer is solid. And there is an enormous volume of content you can review as well. This thread for example was written 4 years ago. Over time the way to evaluate any contributor is to look for consistency of content.

My personal details are irrelevant to the discussion, as are yours.

Men need to lead their relationships for optimal outcomes. Male leadership creates the space in the relationship for the woman to be feminine and relax into her natural female role. In such a natural dynamic everyone is happier.

My BF leads. Period. I defer to him. We enjoy a good relationship as a result. Not perfect, for we are not perfect...but a good relationship we both enjoy.

If you look at my content you’ll find consistency. In my story, in my attitude, in my advice.

Not everyone will agree with everything I have to say and I have my detractors. I have had detractors since day 1 here. That’s fine & to be I expected.

I have stated that I am not perfect. Nor am I every man’s cup of tea.

Therefore a discussion of my faults is not worthwhile. Instead it’s a distraction from the truth of the idea which started the thread.

Compared to many of the women men here complain about I am far less flawed. Just as many emotionally healthy women are likewise far less flawed (and are paired off in healthy marriages and/or LTRs as a result...)
 

bat soup

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It's interesting to hear this from a woman, because it confirms something that I've already realised. You should NEVER let a woman lead. If she's leading, you're messing up. A woman that likes you is going to be willing follow your lead and if she refuses, then most likely she's just setting you up for some kind of bull****.
 
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