Not Really a Grown Man

[jaymbrs]

I'd like to share my latest conversation with a woman I've been trying to date. She's a single mom (many of you will stop reading at this point) and said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience. I told her good luck and ended the conversation there. Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

 

[Dr.Suave]

I'd like to share my latest conversation with a woman I've been trying to date. She's a single mom (many of you will stop reading at this point) and said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience. I told her good luck and ended the conversation there. Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

Thats a very good point. She´s crazy, you dodged a bullet.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man.

Common gaslighting structure.

You can't be [genuinely and commonly desired trait] until you [act like I want you to act.]

are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

We are not, but that's what she'd like you to believe. That her opinions are objective and/or widely held.

woman I've been trying to date

What do you mean trying?

 

[jaymbrs]

We are not, but that's what she'd like you to believe. That her opinions are objective and/or widely held.

We're getting close. I've even heard single fathers say how they prefer a woman who already has her own children.

What do you mean trying?

Take out on a date but have not actually gone out with her. I didn't know how else to word that.

 

[Murk]

We're getting close. I've even heard single fathers say how they prefer a woman who already has her own children.

No, you're just hanging around low mentality people with no standards and plenty of mistakes behind them. Let the parents date the parents and leave us childless people to procreate in our own families without baggage.

 

[The Duke]

I'd like to share my latest conversation with a woman I've been trying to date. She's a single mom (many of you will stop reading at this point) and said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience. I told her good luck and ended the conversation there. Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

My guess is she dated some guy in the past that didn't like dealing with her kids and ended it with her.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

We're getting close.

I beg to differ. I think most people would rather prefer a new partner without any baggage, children or an unacceptable body count.

Of course, water seeks its own level. (Not you just people in general).

 

[Billtx49]

I'd like to share my latest conversation with a woman I've been trying to date. She's a single mom (many of you will stop reading at this point) and said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience. I told her good luck and ended the conversation there. Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

Besides the obvious not great idea of her wanting you to be a substitute daddy for another man’s kid, the huge Red flag here is her already inferring you’re less of a man if you don’t do what she wants …
If it keeps up, women like that can turn a man’s life into a living hell.

 

[Gamisch]

I'd like to share my latest conversation with a woman I've been trying to date. She's a single mom (many of you will stop reading at this point) and said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience. I told her good luck and ended the conversation there. Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

Glad to see content for the forum never stops coming. Some women have no emotional filters and will just spit out everything that's on their mind. Hilarious sometimes.

I assume you met her via a dating app. This one is straight up looking for a replacement daddy. It does matter how old her kid is , or kids are . Otherwise it's just gaslighting bs, because every woman I've known with kids will find a way to get D -ed down when needed. She probably just wasn't feeling it and had some other suitors lined up already.

If and that's a big IF you want to "convince " such a woman you know your way around kids, then you should mention your cousin kids, friends kids ect. But yeah, that's a big if...

No, you're just hanging around low mentality people with no standards and plenty of mistakes behind them. Let the parents date the parents and leave us childless people to procreate in our own families without baggage.

Oof, that a harsh way of saying it but you are right. Having a child (should be) is a conscious decision , and one that will influence the rest of your life including your future dating life.

I have a kid and I have to say it is easier to have a woman that knows her way around kids. It's strange to ask a young 25 y .o woman without children to comb your kids hair or someting like that.

And let's be honest, for most men without kids ot will just be awkward. Such a man willl just wish that her kid would disappear, sleep faster or stfu more often .

 

[jaymbrs]

Glad to see content for the forum never stops coming. Some women have no emotional filters and will just spit out everything that's on their mind. Hilarious sometimes.

I assume you met her via a dating app. This one is straight up looking for a replacement daddy. It does matter how old her kid is , or kids are . Otherwise it's just gaslighting bs, because every woman I've known with kids will find a way to get D -ed down when needed. She probably just wasn't feeling it and had some other suitors lined up already.

If and that's a big IF you want to "convince " such a woman you know your way around kids, then you should mention your cousin kids, friends kids ect. But yeah, that's a big if...


Oof, that a harsh way of saying it but you are right. Having a child (should be) is a conscious decision , and one that will influence the rest of your life including your future dating life.

I have a kid and I have to say it is easier to have a woman that knows her way around kids. It's strange to ask a young 25 y .o woman without children to comb your kids hair or someting like that.

And let's be honest, for most men without kids ot will just be awkward. Such a man willl just wish that her kid would disappear, sleep faster or stfu more often .

I could've told her how my ex has a now 14 year old but I managed as a male role model in her life while I was in that relationship. Practiced playing softball with, helping her with her batting, talking to her about boys and school. But I chose not to, just because of how she came off all righteous over her "requirements". For the record, I don't prefer single moms, but I don't disqualify them. I know not all of them are like that, but this woman really made it seem like I didn't measure up. Anyways, next.

 

[SW15]

because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man.

This is a common stigma against childless men. It is most commonly held by single moms. There are even some older childless women (35-54) who will think that childless men of a similar age are immature.

As childless Millennials get older, I expect this stigma to decrease a little bit because of the increase in childlessness.

 

[RazorRambo24]

you already know, single moms recreational use only.. you shoulda told her, whats that gotta do with me and you?.. you think i want to be with you? im just here for a good time, not a long time.. men gotta laugh at this stupid sh.t women say so they know how ridiculous it is.

 

[zekko]

Normally things like this wouldn't bother me but are we seriously at the point where everything is essentially backwards which is to have kids THEN get into a relationship?

Things have been backwards for a long time. Couples used to date to see if they wanted to have sex. Now they have sex to see if they want to date.

 

[Kotaix]

She probably divorced the guy because he was an immature baby. I've seen lots of women who have 2 kids and 3 children because the guys are childish deadbeats (and usually criminals).

Having a child changes a person, she is correct in wanting a man who has been thru it. It sure beats wasting her time on you single guys who just want to bang her because you know she's not wife material. Woman has kids to feed and she needs a provider.

 

[Nerevar]

You made the right call. You dodged a bullet. Do you really want an entitled single mom? you can do better than that. You can very easily do better than that.

 

[bmp2cpm]

…said because I have no kids, I can't consider myself a grown man. She wants a guy with kid raising experience.

Unpopular opinion…it was a sh*t test and you failed. She was fishing for your experience with children, eg siblings’ kids, friends’ kids.

The sh*t test went completely over your head.
She vetted and you let her disqualify you.

No major loss here, what with her being a single mom and all.

But remember this the next time a quality woman sh*t tests you.

This is exactly why I am a fan of being pre-vetted via a circle of friends. You completely bypass the ridiculous sh*t tests of women.

There are women I stopped dating because they acted really inappropriately. Only years later did I realize they were acting that way as part of a sh*t test.

When women get inconsistent “vibes” from a man, they get a little crazy and start doing ridiculous sh*t tests. Being able to navigate these situations is a good skill to have.

 

[jaymbrs]

Unpopular opinion…it was a sh*t test and you failed. She was fishing for your experience with children, eg siblings’ kids, friends’ kids.

The sh*t test went completely over your head.
She vetted and you let her disqualify you.

No major loss here, what with her being a single mom and all.

But remember this the next time a quality woman sh*t tests you.

This is exactly why I am a fan of being pre-vetted via a circle of friends. You completely bypass the ridiculous sh*t tests of women.

There are women I stopped dating because they acted really inappropriately. Only years later did I realize they were acting that way as part of a sh*t test.

When women get inconsistent “vibes” from a man, they get a little crazy and start doing ridiculous sh*t tests. Being able to navigate these situations is a good skill to have.

Sometimes you just gotta be okay with failing a **** test.

 

[bmp2cpm]

What would have been the proper response for her?

It wasn’t just one sh*t test he failed. He failed multiple ones. The only one that OP really noticed was the big one at the end that he posted about.

To pass, all he had to do was to mention whatever experience he had with children, demonstrate he likes children, and very subtly hint a willingness to commit in some small way to her children.

This was never done, so after failing multiple tests of vetting she gave him one outrageous, ridiculous sh*t test at the end.

 

[bmp2cpm]

Sometimes you just gotta be okay with failing a **** test.

True, but it is much better to disqualify than to be disqualified.

 

[SW15]

Things have been backwards for a long time. Couples used to date to see if they wanted to have sex. Now they have sex to see if they want to date.

This is why it is important to have really good sex when having sex with a new partner for the first time. A woman won't want to date a man if their first instance of sex isn't high quality. Women operate on "all the feelz" and a mediocre to subpar instance of sex isn't going to give them "all the feelz".

There have been times when I could have gotten a first date lay or same night lay from a bar but knew the sex wouldn't have been good due to some combination of alcohol intoxication and exhaustion. As a result, I passed.

Quality of sex doesn't matter as much to guys who are looking to bump up their notch counts. I'm more longer term relationship focused so having sex once with multiple women isn't as appealing as having sex multiple times with one woman.

There is a reason why a lot of same night lays at the bar don't result in 2nd instances of sex. I think it has to do with possible physical complications from alcohol and late night exhaustion and the lack of an emotional connection prior to sex.

Wheat Waffles covered this from 2:11 - 3:07 in the video below. I am linking at the 2:11 mark.

Unpopular opinion…it was a sh*t test and you failed. She was fishing for your experience with children, eg siblings’ kids, friends’ kids.

It wasn’t just one sh*t test he failed. He failed multiple ones. The only one that OP really noticed was the big one at the end that he posted about.

To pass, all he had to do was to mention whatever experience he had with children, demonstrate he likes children, and very subtly hint a willingness to commit in some small way to her children.

This was never done, so after failing multiple tests of vetting she gave him one outrageous, ridiculous sh*t test at the end.

It would have been interesting to know more about the rest of the interaction and the smaller shiit tests earlier in it.

Most men who are 30+ have had some sort of experience with children at some point prior to then. A man can cite experiences with nieces and nephews by his 30s in most cases. Even if he doesn't have experience with nieces and nephews, he could have mentioned experience with much younger siblings or cousins that he had as a teen or in his early 20s. He could probably cite experiences with a friend's child(ren) or even have had some babysitting experience. He could have mentioned a childless ex-girlfriend's nieces or nephews. There's always some sort of experience to draw upon there. Thinking back on things, I recall an interaction I had in a bar when I was 21 and there was a 23 year old single mom I approached that night. I could have mentioned babysitting experience that I had even then. In that approach, I auto-ejected because I didn't know women as well. Auto-ejecting from an interaction with a single mom isn't a bad thing.

By one's 30s, I think it should be assumed that there will be single mom interactions. It should be assumed that a man can pre-emptively avoid a shiit test by acknowledging she's a single mom and mentioning experiences with children as a childless guy. This can enable sex to happen, for those childless men interested in "hit it and quit it" with a single mom. Some childless men are interested in that, and that can expand notch options in one's 30s/40s.

The other play for a childless man when doing that is to get her interested by mentioning experience with children, then walk away. That's much better for the ego than getting rejected by a single mom.

it is much better to disqualify than to be disqualified.

This is so true. The "one date, no sex, no second date" interactions I have had where I wanted more from the interaction but the woman didn't bothered me far more than the ones where I wanted nothing to do with the woman as a result of the first date.

No major loss here, what with her being a single mom and all.

This is true. A lot of childless men have no interest in relationships with single moms. We have a good thread about that.

What is Your Stance on Getting into Committed Relationships with Single Moms?

As men, we are supposed to be the gatekeeper to committed relationships. Single moms are a contentious topic in the Manosphere. I want to focus this discussion upon committed relationships and not casual sex/plating arrangements. To me, that is a different topic. Men age 30+ are often...

www.sosuave.net

There are childless men who will have sex with single moms, either for one night or on some sort of ongoing basis as a plate, often for less than 12 months. While this is possible to do, it's often aggravating to do for a childless man because you're planning around sex around her time consuming parenting duties. If a childless man is having sex with a single mom in a casual sex arrangement, it's best to have at least one other childless woman in the rotation in a plating situation. A lot of childless men get frustrated when their only plate is a single mom.

Single fathers are better equipped to deal with single mothers, both in a committed relationship and in casual sex. It is always annoying to deal with planning sex around a woman's time obligations with parenting.

This is exactly why I am a fan of being pre-vetted via a circle of friends. You completely bypass the ridiculous sh*t tests of women.

Yes, I agree. Have you managed to get pre-vetted via a circle of friends? How have you gotten that circle? Few relocations over the course of your life.

I've never had a circle of friends capable of introducing me to women, even though I'm now in my late 30s and have been in the same city 10+ years. I didn't have deep social ties due to a numerous relocations prior to getting to my current city. In the past, in my primary local area social circle comprised of other adult transplants to the area (an overall weaker circle), there were some instances of women in the circle and multiple men in the circle competing for them. The competitions were intense. Also, it's worth mentioning that these were intense competitions for women who turned out to have significant flaws by my subjective judgment. One woman that multiple men, including myself, competed for turned out to be rather prudish and would make men wait months for sex.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

The guy in my social circle who won a competition for a woman who made him wait months for sex might not have actually won, though he did eventually commit to a relationship with her and marry her. He's blue pill. So many men in my social circle are blue pill. When you take the red pill or black pill, you start to see how your social circle mates fall for a lot of blue pill traps.

Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere! Life When Your Blue Pill Social Circle Starts Having Babies

Yesterday, I was on my Instagram and saw a pregnancy announcement from an acquaintance's wife in my social circle. I don't particularly like her. I find it annoying to be around her the 1-2 times a year I ever randomly see her in person. Right now, there are 3 women from my local area social...

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