New Scenario With Difficult Coworker

[BackInTheGame78]

I would call him out publicly like he did to you., that was my original thought but i just noticed that he is retiring in 3 years. You're not going to get him to change. He does have valid points and sticking it to him now will just cause more problems instead of getting him to stop.


You can politely in the public email let him know to bring these to your attention privately as its a bit unnecessary to ping the entire group of people. Thank him for his feedback, let him know you'll make those changes and you'll slow down a bit. If he comes back, you'll look even more like a jackass/confrontational which will likely draw others attention. You end up acknowledging him but also putting him in his place. Be the bigger man, and if he makes mistakes, bring them to his attention privately. Show him how you'd like things to be done, over and over again even if he doesn't change. If you can't win by brute force, win through actions of kindness.

Typically, I call bullies out publicly and even confront them and put them in their place but he sounds less like a bully and more like a grumpy old man. Since you can't tell him off and avoid him, you'll need to learn how to live with him.

He also apparently is putting his company at legal risk by continuing to create a hostile work environment via his disparaging racial comments that are not only crass but also highly illegal in a workplace environment, as in company gets sued and settles for millions of dollars illegal.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

No, he's someone with a sense of humor. I was going to make the same joke but he beat me to it. Lefty misspelled "feuds" and I was going to tell him he needs to proofread his posts better. And he would laugh, because he has a sense of humor too.

I was chiming in, not berating him. The 'uneducated American' remark was aimed at OP, not at @taiyuu_otoko

Different sense of humour.

I also read the myriad misspellings in OP's postings, but as a writer I'm used to editing text, so mistakes always jump out at me. Doesn't mean that his emails will also be rife with mistakes, but with his opening post OP already showed that he should use a spell and grammar check.

 

[logicallefty]

I was chiming in, not berating him. The 'uneducated American' remark was aimed at OP, not at @taiyuu_otoko

Different sense of humour.

I also read the myriad misspellings in OP's postings, but as a writer I'm used to editing text, so mistakes always jump out at me. Doesn't mean that his emails will also be rife with mistakes, but with his opening post OP already showed that he should use a spell and grammar check.

Raise your right hand.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

No way. I love it when other people's postings are rife with mistakes. Like surrounding yourself with ugly people.

 

[logicallefty]

No way. I love it when other people's postings are rife with mistakes. Like surrounding yourself with ugly people.

lol In that case, you should proof read your writing better as well. You forgot to capitalize two sentences here. Starting a sentence with “and” is also improper English.

 

[manfrombelow]

OP,

Totally agree with @BackInTheGame78 , he knew what he's talking about.

Start documenting things, in written forms, and file a complaint to HR, with some BS reason like "His hostility is preventing you to do your job and putting the whole organization at risk" or something like that.

About the other stuff, like he's calling you out on a public email saying you need to proofread stuff better, make sure you don't give him any reasons to to nitpick you again, and keep a clear distance from the guy.

Based on your data, he's a petty loser, hence he needs to be treated accordingly.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

lol In that case, you should proof read your writing better as well. You forgot to capitalize two sentences here. Starting a sentence with “and” is also improper English.

No, I didn't 'forget'. I do that on purpose. Just like I don't capitalise my poetry.

Just to annoy people like you.

I know all the rules, but I don't write to please my English teacher. Or the Grammar Police.

 

[logicallefty]

No, I didn't 'forget'. I do that on purpose. Just like I don't capitalise my poetry.
View attachment 11474
Just to annoy people like you.

I know all the rules, but I don't write to please my English teacher. Or the Grammar Police.

Haha thats funny. Truth be told, I can write perfectly fine. I know my spelling and grammar on this site isn’t always perfect. That’s mostly because I normally write from my phone and fairly quickly here. Plus, you guys don’t pay my bills. I also don’t write to please the grammar police. I have more of those badges if anyone else wants one. I can make it pink if people want that. lol

 

[FlirtLife]

Imagine giving your son advice "Hey son don't stand up to your annoying coworker, he might get a promotion and then you're screwed", most men are indeed weak.

My post said "I doubt you would bully your boss"[1]. Picking on people without power, but saying nothing to those with power - that seems like a bully to me. There's a difference between standing up to someone and being a bully.

I brought up the grammar checker advice after you made numerous mistakes... and kept going.

"When I need your helps"[2]
"that you make, if you have"[2]
"When I need your helps"[2]
"be a puzzy the whole life to stand up to people"[3]

[1]

I doubt you would bully your boss by saying "I don't like you trying to correct me when I make mistakes... When I need your helps, I'll ask for it". If you say that to a co-worker, and they later get promoted to your manager ... you're screwed.

[2]

I would taking him in a place alone and be like "Hey man, I don't like you trying to correct me when I make mistakes, or those jokes that you make, if you have a problem with me, talk to me or my boss" Those people are fvcking annoying and are the first puzzies who complain when you make fun of them.

He will be like "I'm just trying to help you, don't take it personally"

I would be like "When I need your helps, I'll ask for it"

[3]

Ok be a puzzy the whole life to stand up to people then. That sounds fun

 

[logicallefty]

To make work easier, are you willing to make him feel even more superior?

Then ask him to help proofread some of the emails you send to everyone. You won't feel good about the situation - but he can't complain about an email he proofreads, can he? If you're on the fence... don't make me point out the typos in your message above. I suspect he's actually annoyed by those typos. The way your co-worker adheres strictly to every rule makes me suspect he's German.

How does the co-worker's cyber security experience compare to yours?

I think what is going to save me with this guy is my boss. My boss is super cool and he has said that this guy is a jerk. He also made a comment to me that "(Jerk guy) is NOT your boss, I am. You do not have to listen to him if you choose not to". So officially in a work context I think I will be fine. For me, my original post was actually about trying to adapt to new cultures and figure out if this is normal. Then the second thing is figuring out how to handle my interactions with this guy on a daily basis and not do or say anything I might regret. His cyber security/cybercrime experience is far less than mine. I have worked with it in some way since 1999 including in a sworn law enforcement capacity. He has only worked with it since 2017 and only as a civilian, not as a LEO.

 

[AAAgent]

He also apparently is putting his company at legal risk by continuing to create a hostile work environment via his disparaging racial comments that are not only crass but also highly illegal in a workplace environment, as in company gets sued and settles for millions of dollars illegal.

This will just create a hostile work environment imho. The dude will retire in 3 years. If he goes to HR, assuming that HR does anything in this environment as this has been happening for a while now, it will antagonize the old head and cause him to more covertly harass OP and create tension in their cooperation at work. Assuming it does work out well and he stops, then great.

At the end of the day, the old heads criticism is valid. Tons of grammatical mistakes shouldn't be made, especially when there's literally a spellchecker in every single email/document program.


This is likely the last thing HR wants to be dealing with during these times. I'm seeing HR staff being laid off, budgets being cut, having to fire/lay off others on massive scales, handle benefit cases, they probably don't want to be handling grown men complaining about grammar and not being nice.

Just be the bigger man, and spellcheck your writing. If it continues after that, you can escalate.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This will just create a hostile work environment imho. The dude will retire in 3 years. If he goes to HR, assuming that HR does anything in this environment as this has been happening for a while now, it will antagonize the old head and cause him to more covertly harass OP and create tension in their cooperation at work. Assuming it does work out well and he stops, then great.

At the end of the day, the old heads criticism is valid. Tons of grammatical mistakes shouldn't be made, especially when there's literally a spellchecker in every single email/document program.


This is likely the last thing HR wants to be dealing with during these times. I'm seeing HR staff being laid off, budgets being cut, having to fire/lay off others on massive scales, handle benefit cases, they probably don't want to be handling grown men complaining about grammar and not being nice.

Just be the bigger man, and spellcheck your writing. If it continues after that, you can escalate.

This isn't about him. This is about a company that is literally potentially risking legal action that would create severe financial compensation to employees and/or heavy fines if someone decides to pursue legal action.

HR departments mostly care about how much legal/financial risk you are exposing them to by being employed there so trust me, that is the FIRST THING they would want to know about.

Making those type of jokes/comments has no place at any business that wants to stay in business.

 

[Divorced w 3]

OP, first of all, this type of calm and patience from a former LEO is wonderful to hear. That is incredibly much to your credit. I can only guess how many situations over your career ended better than expected because you had the emotional presence that you do. I am pro LE to the max regardless and defer to the blue until proven otherwise but thank you for affording me the confidence.

That said, welcome to social and workplace dynamics. Your boss may have your back but you still need to make this guy your btch. It’s going to pour over into your work life in ways you don’t expect. It will start off like this but depending on how much further he takes it, he or others may start making more headaches for you over time. If your boss had your back he would put that guy in his place for you, so you have to look at the landscape that you’re playing in and adapt accordingly. Keep calm, and then find ways to ask questions or make outright statements that are going to reframe this dynamic.

First of all

A couple ideas :

First of all, never seek him out. When you’re on top, you don’t seek out the pawn, you move forward on your path and you clear out issues if they get in your way, ie deal with this next time he moves on you.

1- (next time he acts up, and do this publicly ) hey Pascale, sounds like we got off on the wrong foot. You’re probably having a tough day, it happens to the best of us. The office should grab a drink after work and we can get to know each other better? (Do you see why this works? ‘Hey guys, Pascale is a catty *****, men work towards solving problems and leaders work at bringing teams together’)

2- (acts up again) Pascale, I’m not sure what it is, I totally get we have our own stuff going on, whatever it is, not necessary to tear the office focus away on this kind of stuff. Chill dude, let’s just keep on task here, but I would appreciate if you knocked it off, I’m trying to get work done.

3- Pascale, last chance, I’m letting you know that I’m documenting all of this and my next call is HR

4- Pascale gets his ass beat after hours without cameras around

 

[Divorced w 3]

Amazon.com

 

[AAAgent]

This isn't about him. This is about a company that is literally potentially risking legal action that would create severe financial compensation to employees and/or heavy fines if someone decides to pursue legal action.

HR departments mostly care about how much legal/financial risk you are exposing them to by being employed there so trust me, that is the FIRST THING they would want to know about.

Making those type of jokes/comments has no place at any business that wants to stay in business.

I work in management for a massive corporation (top 30 in the world) and I am sharing from my personal experience. If this has been going on for a while, likely nothing is going to be done about it in this environment when **** is hitting the fan as most work places. It seems to have been tolerated. Not ideal but it is what it is. HR likely turning a blind eye and the company and client likely don't care or are accepting of this.

In a healthy economy, what you said about HR departments is accurate. In this environment with financial tension spreading, they are less worried about that. Entire DEI divisions are being wiped out. Caring about your "feelings" when bankruptcies are increasing, everyone is constantly upset and complaining, and budget for company culture/diversity/branding will all come after surviving and revenue. This is why I originally said, i would have just addressed it myself publicly and called him out but when the old dude is on his way out and literally is displaying IDGAF attitude, OP has more to lose than he has to gain. You definitely don't want to be complaining during these times about trivial stuff like "he told me to fix my spelling mistakes" when people have more important sh1t to worry about.

Putting people in their place works when the other party has something to lose and you make their next move one that has to be so loud, it will make them a fool infront of others. Given that this guy is on his way out, spent many more years at this current company, and OP is brand new there, OP doesn't seem to have much to gain and more to lose given that he's newer, he's still learning to work with people at the company, he's complaining, etc.

As a manager, the worst people are the ones that create problems for me as a manager that can't resolve them amicably among staff. I likely wouldn't be hiring people who are acting like the old dude in the first place, but as a manager the last thing I want to hear is HR pulling me into an office and sharing that my 2 direct reports are bickering over xyz. This does not help move the team towards our objectives nor the individual toward objectives, and the newbie that is complaining potentially labeling himself as a softy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I work in management for a massive corporation (top 30 in the world) and I am sharing from my personal experience. If this has been going on for a while, likely nothing is going to be done about it in this environment when **** is hitting the fan as most work places. It seems to have been tolerated. Not ideal but it is what it is. HR likely turning a blind eye and the company and client likely don't care or are accepting of this.

In a healthy economy, what you said about HR departments is accurate. In this environment with financial tension spreading, they are less worried about that. Entire DEI divisions are being wiped out. Caring about your "feelings" when bankruptcies are increasing, everyone is constantly upset and complaining, and budget for company culture/diversity/branding will all come after surviving and revenue. This is why I originally sad, i would have just addressed it myself publicly and called him out but when the old dude is on his way out and literally is displaying IDGAF attitude, OP has more to lose than he has to gain. You definitely don't want to be complaining during these times about trivial stuff like "he told me to fix my spelling mistakes" when people have more important sh1t to worry about.

Putting people in their place works when the other party has something to lose. Given that this guy is on his way out, spent many more years at this current company, and OP is brand new there, OP doesn't seem to have much to gain and more to lose given that he's newer, he's still learning to work with people at the company, he's complaining, etc.

As a manager, the worst people are the ones that create problems for me as a manager that can't resolve them amicably among staff. I likely wouldn't be hiring people who are acting like the old dude in the first place, but as a manager the last thing I want to hear is HR pulling me into an office and sharing that my 2 direct reports are bickering over xyz. This does not help move the team towards our objectives nor the individual toward objectives, and the newbie that is complaining potentially labeling himself as a softy.

Dude it doesn't matter what they "allow". This is where companies f ck up because they act as if their policies override actual laws. They don't.

They will eventually learn a very expensive lesson on this.

 

[AAAgent]

Dude it doesn't matter what they "allow". This is where companies f ck up because they act as if their policies override actual laws. They don't.

They will eventually learn a very expensive lesson on this.

Not saying they will allow it, i'm saying it may not actually solve the problem and create more problems than OP actually wants. Complaining and crying is less effective than trying to resolve the situation yourself either through aggressive actions or pacifistic actions.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Not saying they will allow it, i'm saying it may not actually solve the problem and create more problems than OP actually wants. Complaining and crying is less effective than trying to resolve the situation yourself either through aggressive actions or pacifistic actions.

Once he goes to HR he is immediately afforded whistleblower/retaliation protections under Federal Law.

That would be another expensive lesson they would end up learning

Nothing aggressive about it. The dude has been violating Labor Laws for 30 years and they have done nothing about it.

 

[AAAgent]

Once he goes to HR he is immediately afforded whistleblower/retaliation protections under Federal Law.

That would be another expensive lesson they would end up learning

Nothing aggressive about it. The dude has been violating Labor Laws for 30 years and they have done nothing about it.

Where did you get the 30 years (i must have missed that)? I don't see anything about violating labor laws. He seems normal to most co-workers (according to OP) and only OP is having this issue. Seems a lot of things are still up for interpretation.

How HR will address this is they will take the report and document it. Whether its actionable or not. They will bring the report and say its anonymous and bring it to the attention of his co-worker and review these issues one by one. the co-worker will be able to address the complaints regarding spelling errors because those infact are legitimate facts. The racial remarks can be seen as a joke, doesn't seem to have been an issue before OP was there, and worst case, a slap on the wrist. Manager will be made aware and co-worker may be annoyed and complain to manager, and OP will complain to manager, and this was all started by OP. This is all on-top of OP likely will face more passive aggressiveness from co-worker. This guy has been there for many years and likely will have more people on his side than OP will may further isolate OP and end up with OP just creating a hostile environment for himself.

Easier to just win these situations over with kindness. I done both, put people in their place and also just put in a few months work of being super nice, by treats for the entire team including the a$$hole, invite the a$$hole to drinks, thank the a$$hole after they critique me and just be genuinely nice. Eventually, they stop. These lose motivation and also end of feeling bad, plus they don't have momentum on their side as co-workers are also not motivated to be negative towards me. Or you can just stand up and say openly, you don't appreciate their snide remarks and its getting kind of annoying. If they have any of those remarks, they can keep them to themselves.

I just don't think the aggressive situation will work in this case and reporting someone as a new person reporting some old dude that has been there for way longer and getting along well with others.

 

[member162951]

How HR will address this is they will take the report and document it. Whether its actionable or not.

HR is required under U.S. federal and state labor laws to conduct an internal investigation, by interviewing all employees.

Racial slurs can be subjective, what one employee considers offensive, another might not. What's important is how the complaining witness feels, if it negatively impacts their job performance and creates a hostile work environment for them.

Hostie work environment is clearly defined in the labor laws and constitutes a cause of action.

HR doesn't make the laws, nor is it their job to interpret them. Their only job is to follow them.

A court of law will determine the egregiousness and award damages if the company is found liable and failed to take action.

The emails and other things you find annoying, are not actionable. Unless they are found to be discriminatory or racially motivated.

Talk with an attorney you could have a valid cause of action here and be awarded $$$ for it.