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[TheProspect]

@samspade , you made a lot good of points that I agree with.

Yeah he got under my skin once or twice, but I see it as more my fault than his if I got into a pissing match with him. Really he's just testing everyone's frame - but some guys think their internet forum honor is at stake and get into it with him.

Very well put. I think that's exactly it.

On this forum, if you are being provoked by an instigator the best thing you can do is ignore them via the ignore feature or using some discipline by restraining yourself from being pulled into a trivial and off-topic squabble.

As you pointed out, some guys get absorbed in their online identities and how others perceive them –– despite the dynamic being an online internet forum with rules and not a college fraternity in the flesh.

I don't see the quintessential Don Juan hazing others and provoking flame wars on the internet.

To be frank, personally, I wasn't fond of Spaz at first, but he's grown on me over the years and I don't mind him at all now.

 

[TheProspect]

I also agree that Spaz does have a knack for testing the frame of others, and I think there can be utility in doing so in some cases.

However, we need to be mindful not to look at the behaviour of Spaz from a single perspective.

Let's for a moment grant that his hazing and frame-testing can provide some form of benefit for his target.

Perhaps there can be value in his behaviour if it causes introspection in his target, or his target gets an opportunity to practice holding frame.

If true, does this hazing behaviour still offer a net benefit or net positive contribution to the forum overall?

I would argue no.

For 3 reasons,

1) It's off-topic, derails the thread, and offers no contribution to the original post. Think of the audience and posters actually interested in the discussion and not the bickering.

2) If his targets fail to introspect or hold frame, it hurts the forum. Not everyone is going to respond the same when Spaz harasses them. In other words, his behaviour will not provide utility for everyone, and it hurts the forum when it fails to do so. See point #1.

3) It's against the forum rules. Being intentionally more clever and discreet with breaking the rules does not mean they don't apply to Spaz. Breaking the rules in order to teach someone a lesson or give them value in an unorthodox way does not make Spaz an exception to those rules.

Just my 2 cents, I'm sure both mods and members alike may feel differently.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Right. So I can hardly figure what spaz did, as he was never one for base insults.

How is this any of your business? You are completely in the dark about how and why Spaz got himself banned. Are you somehow special in that you have a right to demand to know what happened with Spaz and the mods so that you can pass a judgment as to whether the mods made a proper decision or not?

Some of you guys need to pick yourselves up by your bootstraps, lose your obsession with how and why any member has been banned, and participate productively in the forum.

By the way, I get the sense that a lot you haven’t yet realized that I stepped down from modding. Everything is fine... I just need to devote more time to other aspects of life.

I myself have no idea under the sun why Spaz was banned. He and I always get along just fine, but I trust that the mods had to deal with a situation and that they carefully discussed said situation and made the best decision for the benefit of the forum.

 

[user43770]

How is this any of your business? You are completely in the dark about how and why Spaz got himself banned. Are you somehow special in that you have a right to demand to know what happened with Spaz and the mods so that you can pass a judgment as to whether the mods made a proper decision or not?

Some of you guys need to pick yourselves up by your bootstraps, lose your obsession with how and why any member has been banned, and participate productively in the forum.

By the way, I get the sense that a lot you haven’t yet realized that I stepped down from modding. Everything is fine... I just need to devote more time to other aspects of life.

I myself have no idea under the sun why Spaz was banned. He and I always get along just fine, but I trust that the mods had to deal with a situation and that they carefully discussed said situation and made the best decision for the benefit of the forum.

What business is it of yours what business it is of mine?

Spaz is a long-time poster that has benefited the forum more than you or Alan ever have, to be honest; he pretty much carried the forum for about a year........ @TheProspect

I didn't know you weren't a mod anymore. That sucks. You were a good one.

But you were no @Spaz

 

[user43770]

I also agree that Spaz does have a knack for testing the frame of others, and I think there can be utility in doing so in some cases.

However, we need to be mindful not to look at the behaviour of Spaz from a single perspective.

Let's for a moment grant that his hazing and frame-testing can provide some form of benefit for his target.

Perhaps there can be value in his behaviour if it causes introspection in his target, or his target gets an opportunity to practice holding frame.

If true, does this hazing behaviour still offer a net benefit or net positive contribution to the forum overall?

I would argue no.

For 3 reasons,

1) It's off-topic, derails the thread, and offers no contribution to the original post. Think of the audience and posters actually interested in the discussion and not the bickering.

2) If his targets fail to introspect or hold frame, it hurts the forum. Not everyone is going to respond the same when Spaz harasses them. In other words, his behaviour will not provide utility for everyone, and it hurts the forum when it fails to do so. See point #1.

3) It's against the forum rules. Being intentionally more clever and discreet with breaking the rules does not mean they don't apply to Spaz. Breaking the rules in order to teach someone a lesson or give them value in an unorthodox way does not make Spaz an exception to those rules.

Just my 2 cents, I'm sure both mods and members alike may feel differently.

I don't think you realize how important divisive posters are.

When the forum becomes a boring circle jerk, I bet you see a drop in hits.

I'm sure you're having to weigh this against being considered a "red-pill" forum, which is taboo.

I don't envy you, by any means

 

[Atom Smasher]

What business is it of yours what business it is of mine?

Spaz is a long-time poster that has benefited the forum more than you or Alan ever have, to be honest; he pretty much carried the forum for about a year........ @TheProspect

I didn't know you weren't a mod anymore. That sucks. You were a good one.

But you were no @Spaz

Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing a bromance here.

 

[RickTheToad]

He was an interesting character. Never understood his quirky antics, but we all go through the motions from time to time. If he learns to stay in his lane, then he will be welcomed back with open arms and (hopefully) not expelled from the forum the next go around.

 

[user43770]

Gentlemen, I think we are witnessing a bromance here.

I mean, obviously, I'm a f@g. Was that ever a secret?

I disagree with spaz more often than not, but I would never choose to silence his voice.

I'm sure he's been a pain in the ass for a long time, but like I said in my previous post, remember who helped you still be a forum.

Sh1t is boring these days. You better hope for another spaz!

 

[user43770]

He was an interesting character. Never understood his quirky antics, but we all go through the motions from time to time. If he learns to stay in his lane, then he will be welcomed back with open arms and (hopefully) not expelled from the forum the next go around.

I look forward to this website becoming loveshack lite

 

[user43770]

He was an interesting character. Never understood his quirky antics, but we all go through the motions from time to time. If he learns to stay in his lane, then he will be welcomed back with open arms and (hopefully) not expelled from the forum the next go around.

What does "staying in your lane" entail? I feel like you should specify this.

And why did his quirky antics bother you?

And why do you think we have to go through the motions from time to time?

 

[Serenity]

When the forum becomes a boring circle jerk, I bet you see a drop in hits.

I think the hits come from people searching for stuff regarding women on Google, mostly old threads that has been indexed long ago. New people coming in haven't the faintest clue about what the regulars do.

Members aren't removed for their opinions. There are several members I strongly disagree with, but that's totally allowed as long as they're not being d!cks about it. It really is that simple, yet someone always pulls the censorship card.

Regardless of a members perceived usefulness to the forum they are not above the rules, to continue posting here they will have to follow them just like everyone else. I really think it's a shame when an appreciated poster gets themselves banned because they fail to behave, but not taking action on it leads to a sense of injustice when we punish a lesser known member and let a more high profile member get away with multiple infractions.

 

[RickTheToad]

What does "staying in your lane" entail? I feel like you should specify this.

And why did his quirky antics bother you?

And why do you think we have to go through the motions from time to time?

A person comes here to be guided and assistance, not to ridiculed and hazed.

 

[user43770]

A person comes here to be guided and assistance, not to ridiculed and hazed.

Right on. I definitely don't condone belittling new posters, but not many people do that. And the ones that do usually get put in line pretty quick.

This is a solid forum that I've enjoyed frequenting over the years. And a lot of that is due to Alan and his choice of moderators. That isn't lost on me.

And no offense meant, Rick. You seem like a solid dude. I just like to ruffle feathers sometimes

 

[user43770]

I think the hits come from people searching for stuff regarding women on Google, mostly old threads that has been indexed long ago. New people coming in haven't the faintest clue about what the regulars do.

Members aren't removed for their opinions. There are several members I strongly disagree with, but that's totally allowed as long as they're not being d!cks about it. It really is that simple, yet someone always pulls the censorship card.

Regardless of a members perceived usefulness to the forum they are not above the rules, to continue posting here they will have to follow them just like everyone else. I really think it's a shame when an appreciated poster gets themselves banned because they fail to behave, but not taking action on it leads to a sense of injustice when we punish a lesser known member and let a more high profile member get away with multiple infractions.

I can't even attempt to argue with that. Well said.

 

[RickTheToad]

Right on. I definitely don't condone belittling new posters, but not many people do that. And the ones that do usually get put in line pretty quick.

This is a solid forum that I've enjoyed frequenting over the years. And a lot of that is due to Alan and his choice of moderators. That isn't lost on me.

And no offense meant, Rick. You seem like a solid dude. I just like to ruffle feathers sometimes

No worries. Everyone has a voice here. Sometimes, people misconstrue posts in their minds (me too sometimes), when it was never meant to offend them.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Right on. I definitely don't condone belittling new posters, but not many people do that. And the ones that do usually get put in line pretty quick.

This is a solid forum that I've enjoyed frequenting over the years. And a lot of that is due to Alan and his choice of moderators. That isn't lost on me.

And no offense meant, Rick. You seem like a solid dude. I just like to ruffle feathers sometimes

Genuine question here: Why do you like to ruffle feathers sometimes?

 

[user43770]

Genuine question here: Why do you like to ruffle feathers sometimes?

It's the only way to test a man's salt.

I'm fortunate enough to work around mostly men, and constantly giving each other jabs is a part of every day life. Your ability to take it, not get offended, and hand it right back is what makes you part of the group.

It's basically raw masculinity, untethered from the constraints of our modern, liberal, nerf ball society.

I think many young men these days aren't getting to experience this in the real world. They need to experience it somewhere...

Edit - granted, I don't challenge new posters anymore, as I've relegated myself to the anything else forum, but the reasoning is the same

 

[Serenity]

I'm fortunate enough to work around mostly men, and constantly giving each other jabs is a part of every day life. Your ability to take it, not get offended, and hand it right back is what makes you part of the group.

I also work around mostly men and we do the same. I get what you're saying. The problem is that only 7 percent of communication is verbal. You say something in real life and people go "haha" and hand it right back at you, you say the exact some words on the forum and due to the very limited form of communication that is text it's next to impossible to know whether you're serious or not.

If you want the same effect on the forum you have to be very mindful of how the readers are going to interpret you. In person this is covered by non-verbal communication, they get that it's a game and not just you trying to be a d!ck for the sake of it.

All in all, not against ruffling some feathers in good spirit, just be aware that it may be hard to see that it is good spirited due to being limited to only verbal/text communication.

 

[Billtx49]

I also work around mostly men and we do the same. I get what you're saying. The problem is that only 7 percent of communication is verbal. You say something in real life and people go "haha" and hand it right back at you, you say the exact some words on the forum and due to the very limited form of communication that is text it's next to impossible to know whether you're serious or not.

If you want the same effect on the forum you have to be very mindful of how the readers are going to interpret you. In person this is covered by non-verbal communication, they get that it's a game and not just you trying to be a d!ck for the sake of it.

All in all, not against ruffling some feathers in good spirit, just be aware that it may be hard to see that it is good spirited due to being limited to only verbal/text communication.

Yep, you nailed it, and that’s why we advise to keep texts to women short, light, and minimal also. Too much of a chance for misinterpretation on deeper communication levels.
The problem is, we talk deeper subjects on this Forum all the time, so agree that extra care and better behavior is needed here…

 

[user43770]

I also work around mostly men and we do the same. I get what you're saying. The problem is that only 7 percent of communication is verbal. You say something in real life and people go "haha" and hand it right back at you, you say the exact some words on the forum and due to the very limited form of communication that is text it's next to impossible to know whether you're serious or not.

If you want the same effect on the forum you have to be very mindful of how the readers are going to interpret you. In person this is covered by non-verbal communication, they get that it's a game and not just you trying to be a d!ck for the sake of it.

All in all, not against ruffling some feathers in good spirit, just be aware that it may be hard to see that it is good spirited due to being limited to only verbal/text communication.

Yeah, but that's what's great about the internet: you can't punch me in the mouth.

Anonymity and no fear of repercussion is what's great about the internet.

You can't be brutally honest with people in real life, less you lose their friendship. On here, you can let it rain.

You know how many great things I've learned from @sshole posters on sousave? More than I have from people in real life.