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Natural Attraction vs Generated Attraction

stormrider

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I have found that "generated attraction" becomes a non-issue when a man simply forges himself into his best self. I always say "takes the hammer and chisel to himself".

The challenge here is that most men (and that includes most, but not all men here on SS), have no concept of forging themselves into their best selves. It means rising above your current station in life, and believing you can improve even without any evidence supporting that.

It's dogged determination to become one's highest self. Most men (and again, most men here) are content to be who they are, trying to manufacture attraction through strategies and mechanisms.

The fact is that especially for younger guys, who you are is far beneath who you can become. When I first came to SoSuave, that was me. Just saying "this is who I am" and thinking I couldn't change for the better. The great tragedy of our Western society is that there is no socially accepted rite of passage wherein society declares a boy to be a man. This would be something like some African and maybe South American tribes who tie vines to teenage boys and command them to dive off a tower. The vines stretch and prevent a damaging fall, but the boys must overcome the terror. Once they do, they are accepted as men.

So many men in the West are just boys in men's bodies, and it's not their fault at all. It's our feminized educational system and societal pressured which molded them long ago. The fault lies with our fathers and grandfathers who abdicated their role as leaders out of fear of rejection by women (and fear of loss of votes).

These are the men who come to this site wringing their hands over this one woman who is rejecting them. They are here to be taught, not to be ridiculed. This is their hospital, and they must be made to get out of bed immediately and learn to walk, but not with ridicule, unless they don't listen and act.

This site can make a boy (in a man's body) into a man if he just applies what is taught here. I'm living proof. I was utterly hopeless and utterly naive about women. Now my inbox gets flooded with requests for advice. How can this be?

What is taught here? Let's take body language. Take one day of the week and observe your body language and start to make subtle changes. Take the next day and observe and focus on making small-talk with strangers. Each day of the week, focus on another principle that is taught here, and then cycle through each week. Observe yourself, but don't judge yourself. Take fitness. Devise a fitness program and start. Are you fat and out of shape? Go outside and walk 10 steps out and 10 back. Next day, 11 steps and so on until you're running.

It's all about steady, incremental, tiny improvements. The tactics taught here are nothing more than training wheels to get you balanced.

Ask yourself: "Am I an exceptional man who deserves an exceptional lady?" Most of you can't say you are. You want an exceptional lady, but you don't understand that you are completely invisible to them, and they to you, just like I was 12 years ago.

Are you really a well-developed, authentic man, or are you just some shlub like I was who pines away for a nice woman and can't understand why all he sees are slvts and fatties?

If you become YOUR OWN best version of yourself, there is no issue of having to try to attract women. Instead you have an abundance of interest from a better class of woman and it becomes pretty obvious.

If you've read this far, you are reading about the evolution of a guy who was more clueless than most guys who come here as noobs. I was seemingly hopeless. I came to a fork in the road and decided to completely disrupt my reality as a loser and ignore that reality, and act as if I were that highly-developed man. There was absolutely no evidence that I could do it, nor did I know what I was even aspiring to, so I chose to become a better "me" every day. I had already given up on women, so it wasn't that I thought I could ever be attractive to them. I just thought that maybe I will at least be able to handle my life better with the outside chance I might find a barely tolerable women one day.

One of the best thing I ever did was decide to judge women. This was my turning point. That's a shorthand way of saying that I held them accountable for their words and actions, and expressed obvious disapproval for bad behavior, with all women, including family. This isn't always verbal. A disgusted look and/or turning the back is a punch in the stomach to most women. The result is that you become mean, abusive and hated, right? BY NO MEANS! The result is that you become friendly, approachable and attractive. Women are craving a man who keeps them in their place and whom they can look up to.

Are you a man who women look up to? Doubtful. Average is your mortal enemy. Average = invisible.

All this manufacturing attraction is ridiculous. Become a well-rounded man and women practically throw themselves at you. I'm 62 and it still happens all the time, everywhere I go in fact. I pick and choose from the subset of women who like my type. No man can be universally attractive as women can be.

What's the reward for taking the hammer and chisel to yourself? In my case I've got a gorgeous, submissive yet intelligent fiance. Zero drama and virtually no problems, just maybe a slight miscommunication a couple times. Who can ask for more than that? This former absolute loser scored himself one of the upper 2%.

Forget lines, pua techniques and the like. Just design who you want to be, and design your life, and attain it tiny bit by tiny bit.

Don't be average. Average is death in this game. Average is being stagnant and confused. Do you go out with clean shoes? Women assign enormous importance to clean shoes. After she looks at your eyes, she looks at your shoes and reads volumes into who you are. Are you neatly dressed even if casual? Are you working out, even if moderately (that's all I do). Do you have hobbies other than video games? Are you adjusting your body language? Are you making small-talk and fun everywhere you go? Do you carry yourself as a confident leader?

A man who learns to do these simple things as a matter of habit has all the bases covered. Look at my signature: "Assume a virtue if you have it not".

The great thing about being a man is that unlike most women, we are able to morph ourselves into something much better. We have a massive capacity to improve, but it takes pain and resolve.

This former loser did it, and If I can, almost anyone can. The thing that stops most men is that they can't even conceive of themselves in this role. That's why we need to defy our "reality" and assume the virtues that we know will make us the highest version of ourselves.

Becoming your best self is all about gaining the respect of people, not just women. We should aspire to be men who are influential with both men and women. In fact, men first. Yes, I said it.

Why are so many of you going after the table scraps when you could be seated at the banquet table? It's nothing more than perception and resolve to by the best YOU. You don't have to make yourself better than the guys you see who seem to have it made. You just need to make yourself better than the guy you were yesterday. Nothing more. Do this and like me, you will chuckle at how you used to be concerned about how to attract women. No more hand-wringing, no more trying to figure out what's wrong. Just abundance.

"Assume a virtue if you have it not.
William Shakespeare
Nice post. This forum is like a microcosm of society. Most guys come here looking like overcompensating losers trying to puff up their chests as if they were the first of their kind. But we've seen them come and go throughout the years. Hundreds, if not thousands. And if you engage with one of them, you yourself will look like a 15 year old boy. It's a low level of behavior that explains why they ever went on google and typed in the magical words "How to get girls" in the first place. But then when they come here and get torn a new one by the veteran guys, they quickly realize that this forum isn't even about girls. It's about men. Getting girls are a positive side effect of being a man.

Eventually if a guy sticks here long enough, he learns to act like an actual man instead of a little boy going around puffing up his chest and causing drama, complaining about girls, or asking how he can best supplicate. It's like this site is daddy day care making up for what society should have taught them.

But we live in a feminized society, hence all the passive aggressiveness from new members on this forum. The loudest guys wouldn't say a peep in real life. They are probably completely docile and get picked on for their lunch money. So they overcompensate over here, thinking noone can see through them.

Welcome to sosuave in 2020. It's pretty much daddy day care for boys who's mothers failed them.
 
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I've seen a lot of you all discussing this topic. I think it's pretty important and deserves it's own thread.

So we all know that it's easier when women have a natural attraction towards you. They don't string you along, they don't play their little attention/validation games, and they make it very easy for you to sleep with them.

But is that to say you should only deal with women who have a high attraction level towards you? I've seen two different perspectives on it, from Roosh V and AMS.

Roosh V:
"Don’t waste your time trying to create attraction. Instead, find a girl who is already naturally attracted to you."

But AMS basically says:
"You guys only want to fvck women who have an initial high interest in you? If so, go ahead and unpledge your $5, cause you're wasting your time. The whole point of Alpha Male Strategies is to fvck b!tches who are ON THE FENCE. Anyone can fvck a girl with high interest. If you're only limiting yourself to high interest b!tches, you're leaving a whole lot of @ss on the table. I'd say about 60% of the women you meet are going to have an initial low interest. Learn to fvck that girl that sees you as a 5, or 6."

This goes into what I was saying about raising interest. I want to know how to raise a woman's interest. I think I agree with perspective B a bit more.... But I'll need to keep improving/getting in the field until I can get it there.

But I wanted to know, what do you all think?
The problem with RooshV's take is that most guys will have a tough time finding a girl who is highly attracted to him.

The problem with AMS's take is that it will lead to naive guys wasting a huge amount of time pursuing girls with low interest, resulting in cynicism and then burnout.

So both strategies are designed to fail (for most guys).
 
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Let's post some stats. I'm pretty familiar with and have good success in the nightspots with the most attractive women. These are medium sized venues which get absolutely packed on weekend nights, with a solid selection of talent.

On a slow night, I might be approached by a couple of girls and maybe double digits will show clear interest. On a better night, upwards of a dozen or more will approach and maybe a couple dozen show clear interest. These numbers are astronomical compared to most guys, at the very least top 5%, probably more like top 1%. Probably a majority of guys will never be approached romantically by a woman in their lifetime, much less by multiple women in a single night.

Think about how many women pass through a prime spot on a weekend night even if it's a smaller venue. Easily 100. That means that only 25% at most show clear interest (strong not ambiguous IOI's or approach). This is for a guy who is top 1 to top 5% in generating attraction.

For guys lower in the hierarchy, but still in the top 20%, most will not get anything more than an occasional glance or smile in the overwhelming majority of situations.

I'm trying to think of a single friend or wingman who was ever approached by even a single attractive woman in her 20's. I can't even think of one, and this is over the course of over 12 years in the game. I'm not saying it's never happened, I'm simply saying I can't recall such a situation off the top of my head.
 
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stringpuller

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I have found that "generated attraction"
This = negotiated desire.
How do i get this girl = fail.
Aside from some posters arrant beliefs. Women seduce men...
Men have stuff...
Well lets hope you do..
 

stringpuller

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Nice post. This forum is like a microcosm of society. Most guys come here looking like overcompensating losers trying to puff up their chests
Man bashing is a feminist way of battle. Look it up its a feminine state and you do it almost in all your posts. Instead of actually educating the lesser.

Dude on Twitter tried to call out rollo recently and looked like a MAN BOOB.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Man bashing is a feminist way of battle. Look it up its a feminine state and you do it almost in all your posts. Instead of actually educating the lesser.

Dude on Twitter tried to call out rollo recently and looked like a MAN BOOB.
Feminist are normally going to attack and erode a masculine image. Its automatic for them.
 

stringpuller

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You don’t “generate” attraction itself. In most cases what men are doing successfully that make it seem like attraction is being “generated”
So its a trick? Something not seen but seen?
are really just exposing the less obvious opportunities that are already there;
So its hocus pocus? Wait let me ask so is she? Or isn't she? Should we think more?
Better T shirt? Different walk?
How about i blow on my thumb to gain that elusive 5'8 plus?? Ohh wait
How about a NYC capital venture guy? Will that do it?
Like more posts? I mean how do we define this? More plates? More rotation?
What if the wind would blow a certain way when i wake up?
Will that produce the OLD results i have been dreaming of????
 

Amante Silvestre

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So its a trick? Something not seen but seen?
So its hocus pocus? Wait let me ask so is she? Or isn't she? Should we think more?
Better T shirt? Different walk?
How about i blow on my thumb to gain that elusive 5'8 plus?? Ohh wait
How about a NYC capital venture guy? Will that do it?
Like more posts? I mean how do we define this? More plates? More rotation?
What if the wind would blow a certain way when i wake up?
Will that produce the OLD results i have been dreaming of????
WTF are you talking about?
 
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stringpuller

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you mods have seen this act before. It’s the typical “please ban me because I have no will to leave this site on my own so I’m gonna troll every thread” routine
Ok storm that's your opinion. Just because some alpha male disagrees with some of your "philosophy" your calling for a guillotine huh? Typical.
 

stringpuller

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WTF are you talking about?
Almonte it means what it says. Im saying all this "generating" attraction is what it is.
Its mind stuff.

Attraction is there or its not. In that moment.
Generating attraction is a fancy way of saying im "negotiating" it.

I know this guy who is a dirt bag to your standards but will literally talk to ANY female. Including in hollywood. Is he attractive? Hell no.
Does he do it? Hell yes he does and he doesn't think about "attraction generation" or Man Bashing.
 

stringpuller

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you mods have seen this act before. It’s the typical “please ban me because I have no will to leave this site on my own so I’m gonna troll every thread” routine
Who is the troll here? The one lifting up? Or putting men down??
Mods need to rethink who they ate banning i think?
 

mrgoodstuff

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Almonte it means what it says. Im saying all this "generating" attraction is what it is.
Its mind stuff.

Attraction is there or its not. In that moment.
Generating attraction is a fancy way of saying im "negotiating" it.

I know this guy who is a dirt bag to your standards but will literally talk to ANY female. Including in hollywood. Is he attractive? Hell no.
Does he do it? Hell yes he does and he doesn't think about "attraction generation" or Man Bashing.
I get it those things aren't even in his mind. And i bet his honesty and security within himself strangely attract some of the babes.
 
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Focal core

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Why waste time on women in the fence? Its a no brainer, the next time she seing something flashy along the way you're done, and that time you waste are better off building a solid foundation with a girl that are truly into you.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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I've seen a lot of you all discussing this topic. I think it's pretty important and deserves it's own thread.

So we all know that it's easier when women have a natural attraction towards you. They don't string you along, they don't play their little attention/validation games, and they make it very easy for you to sleep with them.

But is that to say you should only deal with women who have a high attraction level towards you? I've seen two different perspectives on it, from Roosh V and AMS.

Roosh V:
"Don’t waste your time trying to create attraction. Instead, find a girl who is already naturally attracted to you."

But AMS basically says:
"You guys only want to fvck women who have an initial high interest in you? If so, go ahead and unpledge your $5, cause you're wasting your time. The whole point of Alpha Male Strategies is to fvck b!tches who are ON THE FENCE. Anyone can fvck a girl with high interest. If you're only limiting yourself to high interest b!tches, you're leaving a whole lot of @ss on the table. I'd say about 60% of the women you meet are going to have an initial low interest. Learn to fvck that girl that sees you as a 5, or 6."

This goes into what I was saying about raising interest. I want to know how to raise a woman's interest. I think I agree with perspective B a bit more.... But I'll need to keep improving/getting in the field until I can get it there.

But I wanted to know, what do you all think?
Nick mate, you're cherry picking AMS quotes.

Firstly, take everyone, field test, and see what works. Secondly, discard anything that doesn't bring ROI. Finally, revisit it later once you get down a system of your own.

AMS is on about purpose & & & choosing signals. Not cold approach. I do cold approach but, in the words of Ambi, "I don't chase. I replace."


Refrain from being dogmatic. Take everyone from mystery RSD Tyler, Rooshv, Rollo, etc. And field test everything. ToddV too. Finally, see what results + the lifestyle they live. Do you know want Rooshv lifestyle? 40+ driving north America no wife, gf or kids?

Fan of Rollo but, he doesn't offers solutions. He rants at Rooshv from the comfort of playing house and calls out mgtow and rsd. He's not Infield. He is a coach at best. He posts from the castle walls of marriage, married 8months in of dating epiphany phase despite being red pill, knowing smv a. He's a great man at breaking down gender dynamics but would he stunt in the club today? Doubts. If he was in the current era, he would struggle IMHO in the current era. Epiphany phase wife be on social media today. How would it workout today? It's something he never battled. It's game on hard mode today but, the counter balance is the options are endless.

Exercise common sense. Think for yourself.

Free thinking FTW!

Learn from all sources but know thyself. Know what you want, where you are going, and what life you want to live.

YouTube Sergio Sorkin (I think). It's a burner ToddV channel. He uploaded past digital products. Still, go Infield. The solution is Infield.

It's also dependent on what you want. I am not seeking ltr. If you are, my advice likely won't help you but, acquire options. Then, you can pick from options and pursue thereafter which could help you.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Man bashing is a feminist way of battle. Look it up its a feminine state and you do it almost in all your posts. Instead of actually educating the lesser.

Dude on Twitter tried to call out rollo recently and looked like a MAN BOOB.
That's called gyno. Tell tale sign of low T.

Fan of Rollo. I just wish he could provide solutions and less mgtow or rsd rants from the castle walls of marriage and white picket fence.

Feminism is a great indication of inability to compete. A classic example is, male feminists or as Peterson calls them, weasels.
 

nicksaiz65

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Nick mate, you're cherry picking AMS quotes.

Firstly, take everyone, field test, and see what works. Secondly, discard anything that doesn't bring ROI. Finally, revisit it later once you get down a system of your own.

AMS is on about purpose & & & choosing signals. Not cold approach. I do cold approach but, in the words of Ambi, "I don't chase. I replace."


Refrain from being dogmatic. Take everyone from mystery RSD Tyler, Rooshv, Rollo, etc. And field test everything. ToddV too. Finally, see what results + the lifestyle they live. Do you know want Rooshv lifestyle? 40+ driving north America no wife, gf or kids?

Fan of Rollo but, he doesn't offers solutions. He rants at Rooshv from the comfort of playing house and calls out mgtow and rsd. He's not Infield. He is a coach at best. He posts from the castle walls of marriage, married 8months in of dating epiphany phase despite being red pill, knowing smv a. He's a great man at breaking down gender dynamics but would he stunt in the club today? Doubts. If he was in the current era, he would struggle IMHO in the current era. Epiphany phase wife be on social media today. How would it workout today? It's something he never battled. It's game on hard mode today but, the counter balance is the options are endless.

Exercise common sense. Think for yourself.

Free thinking FTW!

Learn from all sources but know thyself. Know what you want, where you are going, and what life you want to live.

YouTube Sergio Sorkin (I think). It's a burner ToddV channel. He uploaded past digital products. Still, go Infield. The solution is Infield.

It's also dependent on what you want. I am not seeking ltr. If you are, my advice likely won't help you but, acquire options. Then, you can pick from options and pursue thereafter which could help you.
Hey fam. I'm still out in the field. Grinding out my Cold Approaches and working my way up.

I like AMS. I totally agree with the Self Improvement and on purpose, and I appreciate Choosing Signals. But I just can't get behind waiting a week to call, or not cold approaching at all. I'm more of a Todd V type of guy in that respect.

I honestly think all Todd V stuff is really solid, it produces good results. He tells you to go to the gym too lol. I like his breakdowns, they make a lot of sense when I apply his concepts in the field.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Hey fam. I'm still out in the field. Grinding out my Cold Approaches and working my way up.

I like AMS. I totally agree with the Self Improvement and on purpose, and I appreciate Choosing Signals. But I just can't get behind waiting a week to call, or not cold approaching at all. I'm more of a Todd V type of guy in that respect.
Same. I do more complicated pickup. ****ty logistics. Gyms sets, chick's with parents, that baeeeeee who is working etc. The probability is stupid low. Choosing signals and IOIs are layups. It's good to push boundaries.

I honestly think all Todd V stuff is really solid, it produces good results. He tells you to go to the gym too lol. I like his breakdowns, they make a lot of sense when I apply his concepts in the field.
+1

I still miss the non pc, wild wild west era of pickup. ToddV never was as in consistent in rsd. He put content out sparingly but dropped bangers. Lots of insights. I still never seen better irl than rsd Julien. He nailed down the dark triad skills in pickup. Full blown Machiavellian on STERIODS. Married now lulz but if you went full retard humping everything around the globe or not for a lack of effort, ride on playboy!

Did you check free tour?

How's school? Diet? Gym?
 
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