My problem -- a plea

[DonJoseCantosie]

Stop approaching with the intent of it leading anywhere. You're psyching yourself out with expectations...don't do that to yourself.

Yea, at the start its a good idea...but after a while...if u have this mindset while approaching...then u won't be 100% confident when escalating the convo as u'll be like, "oh...there's no need to try to get that insta-date"

You claim to have your game together except you cannot approach.

Thats like saying you are good at footy but you can't kick a ball.

Until you can meet a girl on the street, in a cafe, at a club and then develop a relationship (of any kind) off the bat then you don't know ****.

He's been there before...he's approached in the past....but i agree with Wyldefire on, Even if u can conversate with them, thats much easier when u don't approach at all...as u don't have to be conscious of her reaction toward approaching....but a good approach increases attraction...as it shows that ur a real man(Strength, Courage, Attitude, Confidence) and go for what you want. Don't have to transition from approaching to conversation, thats easier.

But Daniel, now is the time to approach....this fear feeling will never go away until u say fvck it....got to take this chance. There is no other way around it. Start sometime this week. Saying you're too busy for that would be an excuse as all it takes is one minute of ur time....u don't have to work 24/7. Just go to a store where u think females go to and approach one doing an opening line and then hear her reaction and eject...just to get use to it again.

Ur already better than what u use to be mentally but now u have to prove it to urself. No more waiting. Since ur social anxiety is removing, then i can understand why it might take time...but if its almost gone then now is the time to start up again.

Charismaarts.com is good and www.direct-method.com/invisiboard is also good.

You have it in you my man ...i'm with u!

 

[danielzxc]

You claim to have your game together except you cannot approach.

Thats like saying you are good at footy but you can't kick a ball.

Until you can meet a girl on the street, in a cafe, at a club and then develop a relationship (of any kind) off the bat then you don't know ****.

Sorry dude. This is fact.

No, what it is, dude, is you hitting back at me 'cos I've spoken to you harshly in the past.

I don't claim to have my "game together" -- because approaching, as you rightly say, is a fundamental part of the game.

The only thing I "claim" is what I know I have done. And that is met (even SOMETIMES cold approached) hot chicks; gotten a "date" with them; had them back in my car or my room; fkked them. Whether this is "good game" in your, or anyone's book, I don't care. It's simply a fact that I have done these things. And what's more, my "closing rate" with girls that I have gotten to the "car" or "room" stage is pretty damn good, I would think. Whether's it's cos I "had game" or they were simply very attracted to me (because of looks and plus I was socially popular) I don't really know -- if I had to guess, I would guess more the latter.

I have DONE these things. And I feel pretty confident that I can do them again. I don't feel REMOTELY as confident about APPROACHING. This really isn't up for debate. Basically, you just call me a LIAR and claim that i haven't done these things I say I have. That is just a huge fkking waste of time. I've got NO (zilch, zip, nada) interest in impressing anyone on this site. None. If you're going to write posts attempting to impart a bit of wisdom, please let's just stick to the "facts" as I've outlined them.

Being introduced to a girl is a totally different ball game. Totally. Those girls are girlfriends by default make no bones about it. You are not the chooser. You wait til one you like is introduced.

I'm not sure what this means.

Approaching is the starting line. Don't kid yourself.

You need to get your ego in check. Its your friend, but its a proud friend. It seems to me like you are trying to convince people here you know the score with girls instead of actually becoming that.

Please see above. I am not claiming to be some wiz with chicks man. But I DO know what I have done, and I DO know what I FEEL confident I can do again -- escalating with a drunk chick in my car feels a LOT easier than approaching one cold on the street. Just trust me on this.

Approaching is simple. You once criticised me becasue i said "how about this weather" could be an opener. This opener has worked. FACT. You went and analysed the **** out of it as if starting a conversation is like a shuttle launch!

Bullfkkingshyt dude. I didn't criticize talking ABOUT the weather, I simply criticized YOUR way of doing it. I actually GAVE an alternative that i thought sounded much "better" -- ie, it would sound more "normal" to the 17-22 market that most people on here are aiming at. I never said YOU should change anything.

Your problem is simple. You're scared

Simple.

You are scared and you won't face your fear.

Dude, you are not revealing anything to me that I don't know here.

WHy the fkk else do you think I don't approach? Lol. OF COURSE it's cos I'm fkking scared!!

I don't have the same problem once a chick has already "warmed up" to me, because in my mind I have the belief that if she's in the car with me, sharing a drink or something, then she likes me. I figure if she DIDN'T like, she'd never let herself get to that stage. But on the street, before I ever talk to her, it's totally different. I have nothing to base the opinion that "she likes me" on. Get it? I'm far more vulnerable. And yes, I HATE the thought that she might reject me; I am SCARED of it. I'm really not trying to hide anything here. You've read me quite incorrectly, believe me.

All you analysis of approaching and other peoples posts shows you are thinking about it too much.

I explained why I post on this site. During the time that I was "away from the game" I got into a lot of other pursuits. Those pursuits were a drag on my life. If I don't come to this site, the temptation to engage those other pursuits is very strong, and sometimes I succumb to that temptation. Succumbing to that temptation means that in my mind, I am not focusing on picking up, and if I don't focus on it, I won't do it. Coming here keeps the "topic" of approaching and picking up chicks fresh in my mind. Maybe YOU don't need "tricks" like this, but I do. Again, please just trust me on this.

Go check out www.charismaarts.com and do the free email course. This will help.

I'll take a look.

May I suggest that you don't give advice to anyone until you have successfully approached ONE girl.

May I politely ignore your advice?

Fact: I HAVE approached WAY more than one girl in my life dude. I haven't approached anyone RECENTLY -- like over two years (and prob more, if i was able to accuratley work it out, but i can't). But just because my experience isn't recent, doesn't mean I have NO idea what I'm tlaking about.

More than that, though, you'll notice I don't GIVE any advice on APPROACHING. I give advice on things that I feel I am reasonably successful at. Again, just because I have been absent from the pickup scene for the last couple years doesn't mean all the experience I accumulated prior to that has simply vanished into thin air.

 

[danielzxc]

Okay...I'm going to give you some very simple advice that will hopefully help your approach anxiety.

Stop approaching with the intent of it leading anywhere. You're psyching yourself out with expectations...don't do that to yourself. If you see someone you don't know and are curious to meet them...then just go up to them and start a conversation. Practice this with lots of random people...male and female every chance you get. You shouldn't even know whether or not you want to ask for a girls number until you have already approached her and talked to her for a couple of minutes. If you practice approaching complete strangers without any expectations that it will go anywhere beyond you approaching you won't get so worked up over it.

Hmm... that's a very difficult thing for me to get my mind around. If I see a hot babe, then I DO want it lead somewhere. It's very hard to kid myself about this. Seriously, wyldfire, there's not really much a hot babe could say in a couple minutes of conversation that would turn me off wanting to fkk her. This might sound hard to believe, but I really am able to get along with a WIDE variety of different personalities. As long as someone isn't rude or obnoxious, the only thing they could say to turn me off them in a couple minutes of convo is to REJECT me, or to answer one-wordedly, with a blank expression on their face. That doesn't mean I WOULDN'T like to speak to them more; it means i get the impression that THEY don't want to speak to me anymore, so I eject.


Now, if we're talking about people BESIDES hot babes, well, that's a different story. I don't nearly as anxious about talking to people like this. I'll quite happily start a convo with someone at the bus stop, or in a long line at the supermarket. (Not sayin I always do so, but I HAVE done so, without any issues.) Or to bring it closer to something more relevant, I've started plenty of convos with guys at nightclubs whom I've never met before. Like, if some babe walks past, I might pass a comment like "fuuuuuk, check her out" and then make some small talk from there, which, in the past, has turned into a full on convo. Or at the gym, I don't have any probs talking to strangers there. Or at the football or soccer.

Look, it may seem unbelievable that someone who claims to have fairly well rounded social skills would find it SO difficult to approach girls, but it's the truth. Why the hell would wast time making this stuff up? I'm not claiming to be a life-of-the-party social wizard, but there's no way I'm some social recluse who is unfamiliar with the most fundamental aspects of being an interesting person. Please, jsut trust me on this.

I guess why I'm so screwed up when it comes to hot babes goes back to my past. For as long as I can rememebr I was shy around girls. I had a terrible time in highschool. I always thought girls shunned me and found me unattractive and dorky. As it turns out, this belief of mine wasn't even all that based on reality. It was just a few key incidents that "imprinted" themselves on me, and i developed this belief that girls didn't like me. Tragic shyt, to be sure. I never got over this in highschool, but in my final year there were a few "contradictory incidents" that occurred that shook up my belief that girls wanted nothing to do with me (those incidents being some girls showing unmistakable interest in me). When I left highschool and went to university, things started to change VERY quickly. I even recall being amazed myself at how easily I was coming out of my shell. Then shortly after, I met a bunch of very cool guys that i hit it off with, and my old beliefs about myself and girls were almost destroyed. For a few years, I did become FAR bolder with girls, and I realized that -- if I can be permitted a bit of immodesty -- that I was pretty good looking and that girls found me attractive and wanted to be with me. And my social skills with hot chicks sky rocketed. I became a LOT less anxious around them. Sadly, I never COMPLETELY eliminated that anxiety. Then over the last two three years, things just changed enormously. I gave up going out and drinking etc etc and I became very career-focused and took up other interests and became very "serious". Big mistake, looking back on it, but at the time I believed I was doing the right thing. Now, trying to get back in the game again, I've gotta deal with all those old demons.

THIS is where I'm coming from. Reason I say all that is because I do appreciate your posts and your advice. I just wanted to give you the full story so that you can it into account when looking at my situation.

Now, going back to your advice, well, maybe the solution IS that I start conversating with people anywhere and everywhere. If for no other reason than that starting a convo starts to feel "automatic". I'm not discounting this out of hand at all. I'm sorry if I gave that impression above.

Above, I simply meant that it would incredibly difficult for me to look at some hot babe and pretend, to myself, that I'm not concerned about it leading anywhere with her. I mean, i can TELL myself that, but my pounding heart tends to tell another story. Maybe if I was to just begin talking to everyone that again, I could begin to see this differently.

 

[danielzxc]

But Daniel, now is the time to approach....this fear feeling will never go away until u say fvck it....

I appreciate your counsel, man. I really do. I know how frustrating it can be to help someone, and teach them the easiest and most obvious way of correcting their problem, only to have them stall, question or even ignore you.

Just a BIT of patience with me, man, that's all I'm asking for. Every day now i'm starting to realize just HOW MUCH I hurt myself socially by allowing myself to get all caught up in "serious matters". I look back now, and I'm just dumbfounded how I could possibly have let myself go so far in that direction without giving any thought to having a social life. You'll notice htat I joined this site in Nov last year. But it wasn't until like March this year that I finally began to TAKE ACTION. Since then, things have started to become clearer and clearer to me about just how socially "out of shape" I had become.

Start sometime this week. Saying you're too busy for that would be an excuse as all it takes is one minute of ur time....

I agree with you man. There's really no good excuse. And yet... here, in the few words, I'm gonna make one. Lol. I just find it so fkkn damn hard, and yet believe me, I'm almost CERTAIN that it's gonna be one of those things where after you do it (once or a few times) it's gonna be like, oh MAN, that's NOTHING to be afraid of. (I've had a few experiences like this, so I know what I'm talking about.)

The reason I'm still sort of "stalling" a bit, is because I have just recently begun collecting some opinions, from this thread and others, regarding a "good mindset" with respect to approaching. I find it really useful to gather these thoughts, and just 'reaffirm' them to myself. For example, the point you made just on this thread -- "but a good approach increases attraction...as it shows that ur a real man(Strength, Courage, Attitude, Confidence) and go for what you want." I'm just in the process of collecting bits of wisdom like this and reflecting on them, and trying to "install" as much of them as I can into my views on the topic of approaching.

I sure as hell don't plan to do this FOREVER. But I figure a few more days of it will help more than hinder. But after that's done, for sure, ACTION is what is needed.

Now, you could say to me that the above is a compltely unnecessary step, and that I can and I should just approach RIGHT NOW. Logically, I can't argue with that. However, given my situation, I think a bit of "warming up" for a few more days can't be THAT bad, surely.

Really, this is what I should have done about two weeks after I first found this site, instead of waiting until NOW. But, oh well, I didn't. I was wrong not to, but the fact is I didn't.

Also, bits of wisdom like the one above are not NEW to me. I've read PLENTY of stuff like that since joining this site. However, at THAT time, I was still VERY far away, in my mind, of considering actually USING any of it. Now I'm at the point where I'm actually about to start using it. But the anxiety I feel when i'm actualy about to DO something confuses me and makes me forget it all. So I'm just trying to sink some of this stuff in there a little more firmly, now that I actually intend to APPLY it.

As I said, yeah, that's my excuse. For now. But PLEASE make sure you get on my case if I stall for too long. Like, if by next Monday I haven't even done ONE single solitary cold approach on a babe I find very attractive, then bro, let me have it. Or get Jay Jay to let me have it (it would sting more to have that guy put me down, I can tell you). And since I'm a pretty religious guy (believe strongly in God, just not really into all the "rules"), let me make the vow, right here, that any field report I post claiming I made an approach is gonna be TRUE -- I will NOT invent one.

Oh, also, just to try and "prove" what i say about generally feeling pretty socially comfortable around attractive girls WHEN I DON'T HAVE TO COLD APPROACH THEM, i was out with a chick on Sat night. A friend came in with some girl -- an attractive one -- and they sat with us. This friend is a member here, but he hardly ever posts. If someone requests it, I'll get him to post his thoughts about how I "handled" having that attractive girl there. Whether there was any visible sign that I was "nervous" or in any way "not myself". Or get him to ask his female friend whether SHE thought I was nervous or whatever. I would be VERY surprised to hear either of them thought so -- for the very simply reason that i simply was NOT AT ALL uncomfortable around her. Man, I hate to go on and on about this ("doth protest too much"), but clearly some people think I am BS-ing when I say that I feel comfrotable around chicks, and that I feel more confident in escalating them once i have met them than I do in approaching them.

 

[Wyldfire]

daniel...you're making excuses to talk yourself out of dealing with this and overcoming it. That's not going to solve your problem.

It doesn't matter how "hot" you think someone looks...you should NOT want to get with them simply because of how they look. That mindset means you are putting these women above you on a pedestal. Your problem here is that you need to get out of that mindset or you are not going to be able to ease these approach jitters. Just because someone is very attractive is doesn't mean they are worth your time. You MUST approach members of the opposite sex as if they are insignificant to you and genuinely KNOW that they really are insignificant until they prove themselves worth your time and energy.

 

[GamePlan]

Like, if by next Monday I haven't even done ONE single solitary cold approach on a babe I find very attractive, then bro, let me have it.

I'm not gonna argue with your "trying to collect information" stuff on here before doing it. If you've done it by monday, it'll be alright ;-).

but clearly some people think I am BS-ing when I say that I feel comfrotable around chicks, and that I feel more confident in escalating them once i have met them than I do in approaching them

I absolutely don't as I'm pretty much the same (like Ive mentioned before). And I don't think everybody thinks you're lying when you say that. You're as paranoid as myself? LOL


@ Wyldfire: Wow, I just saw you have over 8,000 posts. Wow! Shouldn't you be out in the field doing some serious approaching?

 

[Wyldfire]

I don't approach...I get approached. I'm a chick.

 

[danielzxc]

daniel...you're making excuses to talk yourself out of dealing with this and overcoming it. That's not going to solve your problem.

Wyldfire, if I was trying to talk myself out of "dealing with and overcoming" my problem, why would I start a thread specifically dedicated to dealing with it and overcoming it?

Maybe it's becauase I write really long replies that it sounds like I'm just "making excuses". But I write long replies because I like to explain things clearly (which I hope I'm doing) and analyze things in order to get to the core of the issue. (These thoughts come to me pretty quickly, btw; it's not as though I spend hours agonizing over what to write.)

Actually, I was giving quite a bit of consideration to your advice yesterday. I have come to think you are probably right, that it would help quite a LOT if I were to simply begin talking to everyone, everywhere. That way "starting a convo" would start to become 2nd nature and automatic, and in time I wouldn't even notice that I'm doing -- just like right now when I pull on my socks, I'm "aware" of it, but it's done so naturally that I'm not really thinking of it at all.

It doesn't matter how "hot" you think someone looks...you should NOT want to get with them simply because of how they look.

I guess you're a chick and you can't help it, eh? WHAT am I supposed to want to get with them based on if not looks then? "Personality"? Oh please. This one's non-negotiable. I'm after hot babes and that is that. I'm not settling for any less. If you've got a problem with this, then perhaps we should part ways right now.

That mindset means you are putting these women above you on a pedestal.

It's not so much a "mindset" as it is a physical reaction. It's the strength of the physical reaction that makes me describe them as "hot" -- a "hot" chick being one that just highly turns me on just looking at her.

As for the "pedestal", well, hmm, I'm not sure about that. I have HAD chicks I have considered "hot" in the past. I can only recall ONE that I could honestly say I "pedastaled", and handed over all the power to her etc etc. That was a VERY crappy feeling, and even before i'd ever heard about this "community" I promised myself not be such a sucker again. Other hot ones I've had, nah, I honestly can't say I put them on a pedastal.

When it comes to approaching, yeah, sure, I find it MUCH harder to approach the hottest ones. With less attractive chicks, or ones that I'm not attracted to at all, I feel FAR less anxiety about it. I know some people suggest "practising" on these ones -- but practising WHAT? Asking them OUT? See, I don't like feeling like I'm BS-ing them. Plus, if they're less attractive than me, they won't even believe that I'm really into them, anyway, and so I won't get the number, so that's not gonna help much with confidence, obviously. The only thing I could practise with the less attractive ones is "having conversations". I guess that's a good idea, too. Not so much for "getting comfortable around girls", but just for tuning the automatic "start conversation" response in me.

I absolutely don't as I'm pretty much the same (like Ive mentioned before). And I don't think everybody thinks you're lying when you say that. You're as paranoid as myself? LOL

Lol, I'm not THAT paranoid (didn't think YOU were either). I don't think EVERYONE believes I'm lying. But I think SOME people do. Let's face it, there are a lot of bs-ers on this forum. And also, I admit it DOES sound strange to feel more confident escalating a chick than to do the "simple" step of approaching her. So I can understand how it might seem like I'm bs-ing. And if someone is STILL not convinced, then they might just ask themeslves why on earth I'd go to the trouble of starting this thread and writing all these long posts on it, ADMITTING I am a rank pyssy when it comes to approaches, doing all that, only to "bs" people that I've performed well with chicks, after I have met them, in the past? If I wanted to bs people, I'd do it like everyone else does it. Anyway, this is the last I'll say on this.

 

[Wyldfire]

daniel...you are entirely missing the point. Of course you are going to want more from someone you consider to be "hot". That's a given. The problem is that when you use that alone as a prerequisite to determine if someone is worth your time you give away all the power and control that YOU should have. Being attractive is NOT enough, nor should it be. Allow yourself the right to be picky. When you do that it gives you power and control. Approaching a strange attractive woman will be MUCH easier for you when you grant yourself that power and control. If you approach someone with the goal of them accepting you then you hand over all the power and the choice to them...which is exactly what causes the nerves. When you go into those approaches with the attitude that SHE has to make you want more from her than a couple of minutes of your time it gives YOU the power and the choice. It also gives you more confidence in the approach thereby minimizing the nervousness.

The root of your problem is that you are not giving yourself the power and control in the situation...you're giving it all to the woman and it's causing you to focus on the fear of rejection. If you walk up to her and she isn't receptive then YOU choose to next her. Give yourself the power...that's the point I'm trying to drive home.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

Hey man, i understand where ur coming from. I believe u 100%... i personally don't lie in my FRs or reports either, as there's no benefit of lying just to get ur ego raised by some guys on the internet(Except for helpful feedback from reports)

Its not an excuse to try to get ur mindset raised again, i did the same thing right after I got hit with Social Anxiety...i had to get all that negative energy away first...otherwise i definitely would've fainted again. But i think it would be an excuse if one delays for months and months while he seemingly has got his **** together.

But since ur recovering from it well, and that u seem to almost be ok...now is the time to work ur way up. No need to start with the hard stuff if its too terrifying, just start with Hi and then complimenting the girl and then walking away, and stay in longer and longer, of course start with ugly girls(a shirt they are wearing or hairstyle) and then work ur way up for more attractive girls. Once ur in the swing of things, then time to go full force with the approaches u once did, hell now since u have more wisdom...u'll be 100X better.

I got ur back. Just make to go for the risk soon, fear will always be there...one can either run away from it or one can reduce it(usually what i did) and then confront it head on...even if it risks u being hella nervous.

U'll have to face rejection, its scary but its the only way

Good luck.

 

[Interceptor]

Stop approaching with the intent of it leading anywhere. You're psyching yourself out with expectations...don't do that to yourself.

Seconded.

This is one of the strongest undertones in any "approach".

Women can sense expectations, or neediness, need for validation, wusiness, AFCness, clinginess, sexual inexperience, incongruencies, and yes.....desperation.

Women are attracted to MEN, that is Masculine Men, who don't exhibit ANY of thes traits.

Don't try too hard.
But when you try, just do it without expecting it to "LEAD ANYWHERE".

Also, approaching is a skill, but we all need validation after being in relationships with women LONG ENOUGH to make conclusions on just how we did.
Just MHO....

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

^ Who cares if u believe u want it to lead somewhere, if ur confident enough, u'll have ur expectations high and believe u'll set them....thats the point we want to be at. Women can only sense neediness if u show it in ur body language/facial expression...we don't need to get laid, we want to though.

When ur nervous that ur setting ur expectations too high, that means ur still not confident enough. We can lie to ourselves saying, "We should only have an interaction with her". But in reality, we want to give her pleasure. But of course, for now, don't set them too high...only when ur more confident in ur abiliity.

 

[danielzxc]

Yeah, I really don't understand this "expectations" or "undertones" stuff. I would be quite happy for her to "know" (ie "suspect") that I'm approaching her 'cos I'm attracted to her. How the fkk can this be "needines" or "clinginess" I just cannot understand. Maybe if she makes it pretty plain that sh'es not all that into you, and you stay there and kiss ass, well, okay THEN. But the point is she rejected you even BEFORE did all the "needy" or "clingy" ass kissing.

Someone that thinks highly of this "no expectations" point should give me an example of what they mean, because I really don't get it.

Allow yourself the right to be picky. When you do that it gives you power and control. Approaching a strange attractive woman will be MUCH easier for you when you grant yourself that power and control. If you approach someone with the goal of them accepting you then you hand over all the power and the choice to them...which is exactly what causes the nerves.

Let me see if I understand.

I gather that you think I see some hot babe, get all hot over her, consider approaching her, but I'm scared that if I do that it means I'm going to go up her and virtually almost "plead" with her in the attempt to get her to like me (or to "accept" me). Is that right?

Because if that's what you think the cause of my approach anxiety is, I think you're wrong. There's no WAY I'd lower myself to kissing some chick's ass in trying to get her to like me. That stuff never works anyway. My belief is that her decision of whether she "likes you enough" is reached within about 30-60 seconds. If you've failed to make much of impression by then, it's not IMPOSSIBLE, but neither is it particularly likely that you'll change her mind.

When you go into those approaches with the attitude that SHE has to make you want more from her than a couple of minutes of your time it gives YOU the power and the choice

I agree that "hot" is not enough. I DO value myself pretty highly, and there's no way I'd just "tag along" with some hot chick because just cos she might happen to "put up with me" for a bit. I want her to be into me as much as I'm into her or else forget it, I'm not gonna waste my time and degrade myself.

However, I'm not feeling particularly POWERFUL, with respect to approaching, because of this attitude. It's not doing what you claim it does!

If I have misunderstood what you meant, give me an example please.


My opinion on what my problem is is pretty simple. I just find being "turned down" by a chick a really, really unpleasant feeling. It has never been something that I've dwelt on for days on end.. not even HOURS on end. But in the moment while it's happening, it feels really shyt to me. And since it feels like that, I obviously tend to avoid putting myself into situations where that can happen. Also, as I said, I had along history of believing myself "worthless in the eyes of girls", and when I do get rejected, remnants of this retraded belief system pop up a little bit, and get me questioning and doubting myself. Thankfully, I also have a large number of positive reference experiences that I look back on to reassure myself. Is this "making excuses" to you? If so, I wish you wouldn't see it that way. I'm just trying to explain to you what goes through my mind to save you the trouble of inventing theories -- or if you insist on seeing things through the lenses of your own theories, at least you might take into account MY view of things a little bit more.


Anyway guys, here is my plan. I'm gonna hit a club this Friay with some old friends. I haven't been to a club in quite a while. Cant say how long exactly, but whenever it was, the time BEFORE that last time was also ages ago too. So I'm looking forward to it. (Oh, hang on, there WAS a recent time.. but I only went there to wish someone happy birthday. I went alone, and I didn't stay long, and yeah, just looking around, I felt like a fish out of water, and there was no way I was gonna approach anyone there.)

Back in my 'heyday' (the REAL heyday is yet to come, btw! ), I had some decent success in clubs, but those days seem like a distant memory now. I'm gonna have to get used to being in a club environment all over again.

I'm pretty sure it will happen pretty quickly. Last year, when I signed to this site, I had just gotten back fom overseas, and belive me, even something as deadset simple as walking down a shopping mall I felt incredibly self-conscious. I was truly, truly 'out of it' socially. Understandably, that problem didn't last very long at all. And I'm thinking that any feeling of "strangeness" about being in a club will dissipate pretty quickly, 'cos I have so much experience in clubs from previous years that I can back myself up with.

Also, I think this night might go especially well, because these friends (or friend, if the other guy backs out) I'm going with are from back in my 'heyday'. And now that I HAVE made improvements in my attitude (which I HAVE, despite still seeming like a desperate ass wuss to some), I'm feeling like this could be one pretty good night. I also feel more comfortabel about being open about my appoach anxieties with these guys. Back in the day, I never used to admit to anyone that I felt anxious. I was able to get away with hiding my fear, because back then I did still do approaches, so they weren't able to accuse me of being a TOTAL pyssy. (In clubs only though -- never street stuff. I didn't even know street stuff was possible back then. I thought approaching could only be done in the proper "venue", like school, clubs, parties, pubs, dances etc. Lol.) Anyway, back to my point. I don't mind admitting to thse guys now that I feel anxious about approaching. I haven't actually TALKD about any of this, but say at the club on Friday, I wouldn't be afraid to admit something like "oh man, check that chick out. Fkk man.. she's nice huh? Bro, I'm gonna go up to her.. but seriously man.. I feel nervous about it". More or less a bit of "guy banter", and my friends are the type that would psyche me up to do it (instead of just laugh at me). So yeah.

Anyway, even if "being in a club" proves too bewildering (I don't think it will, but let's say it does), or we don't end up going, then I'm gonna have to do the (at least) "one single solitary approach" I promised to in the mall over the weekend. That's gonna be tougher, so I hope we go clubbing, and I had better approah THERE, instead of having to do it at hte mall.

Actually, building myself up by approaching at clubs would be a good idea, cos the "idea" of that is a lot less frightening in my mind. Why? Because I believe chicks go there to get approached, where as on the street, I feel like they might prefer to be left alone --even though what I have learnt from this site is that that that belief is not really true (the one about street).

 

[GamePlan]

I don't approach...I get approached. I'm a chick.

I know you're a chick, but won't you make life easier for some men out there? I mean you could approach them without the intent of it leading somewhere lol just playing

 

[Wyldfire]

I know you're a chick, but won't you make life easier for some men out there? I mean you could approach them without the intent of it leading somewhere lol just playing

I don't have an approach problem...I can walk up to anyone and start a conversation easily. I don't do it looking for dates or mates, though. It's a woman's job to make the guy want to approach her and it's his job to approach when it comes to romantic interest. I'm old fashioned in that regard.

Okay, back to daniel...you're analyzing things WAY too much. I didn't say your nerves are showing on the outside...but clearly they are affecting you inside otherwise you would not have this problem you are asking for help with. You've recognized it's an issue but you stop short of admitting it to yourself.

As for the expectations...you are approaching attractive women expecting that you want to go out with them before you have even met them yet. You're also thinking WAY to much about it. If your posts are any indicator, then you probably over-analyze each approach before you make it. That causes you to second guess yourself and make you question yourself.

Not much more can be said to help you overcome this problem other than stop thinking about it so much and just go do it.

 

[DonJoseCantosie]

As for the expectations...you are approaching attractive women expecting that you want to go out with them before you have even met them yet.

Yea, good point with that Expectation Wyldefire....but the one where you want to bang the girl can't be helped.

 

[Wyldfire]

Yea, good point with that Expectation Wyldefire....but the one where you want to bang the girl can't be helped.

Yes it can...but it takes time. In the beginning most guys feel "sex-starved", so their standards get thrown out the window. Once you experience more success you will not want to have sex with every attractive woman you see because you won't be so obsessed with sex.

 

[danielzxc]

You know, it's funny when people claim to know you better than you know yourself... annoying, too.

I didn't say your nerves are showing on the outside...but clearly they are affecting you inside otherwise you would not have this problem you are asking for help with. You've recognized it's an issue but you stop short of admitting it to yourself.

Really now? I've "recognized" something... but I refuse to "admit" it. How exactly does THAT work?

Let me put it as plainly as I can: I fully admit my nerves are THE issue. OBVIOUSLY if I wasn't feeling nervous I would be out there approaching right now.

As for the expectations...you are approaching attractive women expecting that you want to go out with them before you have even met them yet.

I already went over this. By "go out" with them, I simply mean get together with them over a drink or something. From there, ideally get them back to my car or room. Simple. And as I said, there's virtually nothing that a hb could say to me in the, say, 2 minutes it takes to open her and ask her her number that would really put me off wanting to take her out; the only thing being a "rejection" -- an indication that she's just plain not interested. (This shouldn't be hard to understand.)

I am NOT interested in their "personalities". I am NOT looking for a girlfriend. I just want to take them out, have a bit of fun with them, and, ideally, fkk them. That's it. I really fail to see how any of this could possibly be an issue in my approach anxiety. I mean, let's just pretend that I DIDN'T want sex, that I was only interested in "meeting" hb's. I would STILL have the same approach anxiety. That's because what I am "anxious" about is them indicating that they are not into me, not even enough to simply wanna chat right there on the spot or to give me their phone numbers. This may seem like a trifling issue to most other guys, but to me, it's just something that i find really unpleasant. There's no "deeper issue" to "root out", as far as I can see.

You're also thinking WAY to much about it. If your posts are any indicator, then you probably over-analyze each approach before you make it.

No, these posts are not a great indicator of the thoughts that fly through my head whenever I consider approaching.

In those situations, I'm not really "thinking" of anything. It's more a case of feeling the fear and trying to psyche myself up to act in spite of it. At the moment what is happening is the thought of "oh man, what if [negative] happens?" is just a bit stronger than the thought of "oh man, what if [positive] happens?". Now, fair enough, that is "thinking", but it's obviously not the type of "deep analysis" I do in these posts (and I don't "deep analysis" for the sake of it, it's there because most of the time I'm trying to explain myself to mind readers like you). I'm not sitting there measuring the angle of approach, thinking up lines and comebacks to possible replies of her, etc, if THAT'S what you mean by "thinking".

Not much more can be said to help you overcome this problem other than stop thinking about it so much and just go do it.

Yeah, I agree. That's what I plan to do. That is actually what I was planning to do right from the begining of starting this thread. I was really only hoping for a handful inspirational or otherwise helpful items that might just jog me a bit and get me to that point a little faster. So, thanks for your help, but your "angle" on my problem is not getting us anywhere and it's just wasting my time. If I'm still moaning and whining about being too scared to approach a week from now, come back and berate me then, eh?

Actually, building myself up by approaching at clubs would be a good idea, cos the "idea" of that is a lot less frightening in my mind. Why? Because I believe chicks go there to get approached, where as on the street, I feel like they might prefer to be left alone --even though what I have learnt from this site is that that that belief is not really true (the one about street).

Just a few more points about this. You might ask, if I see it as such a good idea, why haven't I done it earlier? Answer is that all of my old friends are in ltrs or married, and they just don't go clubbing anymore. Even ones that I could probably nag to come out with me, they have really changed since getting married and are a real drag on me these days. They wouldn't be any help at all. The two friends I'm going with this Friday are by far the best of the bunch. They just can't get away from their girlfriends often enough though. This Friday is one of the first times in ages, and only one them is a lock to show up.

I do have other friends that I could look up, but I haven't seen them for AGES. I was overseas for most of the last three years, you see. And even before I left for overseas, I had already begun snubbing most of these guys and there's a bit of an issue there that would have to be cleared out first. To be honest, those guys really aren't people I wish to have in my life anyway, and I'd just be using them if I started hanging out with them again.

I have a couple of other friends that do go clubbing a bit, but they are in different social circles, and I'd sort of have to "work my way in" there. I'll do this, but I'll have to do it slowly, I tihnk, so that will take a bit of time I imagine.

Failing any of that, I guess I COULD always just hit a club by myself. I'm not enthused at the idea, but sometimes you gotta do stuff like this to get where you wanna be. So, if it starts looking bleak, I WILL hit the clubs by myself. (And I suppose if I can learn to be relaxed doing THAT, then the rest of my game will be kicked up a notch also, just by virtue of the kind of social self-confidence this would develop.)

 

[danielzxc]

I did get that "one single solitary" approach in. It was NOT a good one, and the only reason I'm classing it as an "approach" was that I went up to the girl "with intent".

We were walking to a club, and I was hanging back, and this chick walked past me and I heard another chick behind me say something to her. The chick that walked by was okay, but nothing special, but the other chick (her friend) was pretty nice. I slowed down a step and turned to her and said "where are yous going?" ["yous" is the plural of "you" in colloquial Australian, btw]. She said the same club where I was headed, and I asked her a few questions about it. She was pretty receptive, but because I didn't show any sexual interest, we only stayed on that level of talking about the club.

As I said, only reason I class it as an "approach" is that I was attracted to her , and I DID want to escalate her -- but I just failed to.

I wasn't nervous at all about it, actually. I was kinda pissed off with other things about the night, and when i saw her, i was already in a sort "take no shyt" state, and my words to her flowed without any hesitation on my part. HOWEVER, there WOULD have been hesitation in escalating my words to a "sexual interest" level, but I just never got to that point -- because by the time she answered the few questions I had, we had reached the line, and she went to the guests' side and I didn't, and I just let it drop from there.

Anyway, as tiny as it is, it's SOMETHING to build on. Honestly, I just TELL that it's gonna get easier and easier to the point where it's a no-brainer. Pretty deadset confident about that.


The night itself was REALLY shyt though. We didn't even get into a club. My spirits were sunk right from the start of the night when my friend brought with him three other guys. One of them I knew, and he's pretty cool, but he was dressed down pretty bad. The other two I'd never met. One turned out to be pretty good guy, and was dressed good enough. The other dude was really quiet and NOT at all dressed to get into these clubs. I knew this right from the start. I just KNEW we weren't gonna get in anywhere. I can't fkkn believe guys will try to get into the more exclusive clubs when they are CLEARLY not dressed for it. Shyt, they were scarcely dressed good enough for the lesser clubs. And being older (late 20s), that was the nail in the coffin. Ho boy. Ridiculous. WHAT a fkkn waste of time it all was.

There was a good bit though. We went to some strip club first. Actually, that was my idea. Cos as I said, I knew we weren't gonna get into decent club, so I thought we might as well go somewhere where we WOULD get in, and that way not spend all night walking across town getting rejected from club to club. (Fkkn hell man, that was what actually happened. Like about five clubs we got knocked back from and I knew EXACTLY why, but these dudes were just oblivious to it all. Lol. I didn't wanna say it though.)

Anyway, back to the strippers.

Now, you know your approach anxiety is REALLY bad when you have trouble even going up to a stripper. Lol. But that's what fkkn happened! Man, I appear to be in much worse shape than I thought.

I have been to strippers PLENTY of times in years past. I really liked going there as a "warm up" to hitting a club. Just 'cos all that hot pyssy gets me pumped up for the rest of the night to come. And I've talked to them quite a bit.

Last night though, nope, I was prety freakin nervous.

I'd never actuall gotten a lap dance before, figuring it was waste of money. I used to just enjoy the view for free. But last night I got REALLY turned on by some of the babes there. I saw about three that I REALLY wanted to get a dance from.

The one I settled on going for, she walked past me, and I thought, oh stuff it, I'll get her. When i found her, she was talking to some bouncer next to the bar. As I walked past her, I made a motion with my head to "come over here". She just looked at me, and then sort of frowned, in a "whaddya want?" kind of way. I was thinking, wtf do u think I want, I want u to come over here. The bouncer then looked at me the same way and asked what I wanted. I go to him, "dude, what do u reckon? I want a dance off her".

Actually, I wanted to talk to her first, to sort of "set the mood" a bit, but I wasn't gonna explain all that to some bouncer fkkwit, cos it's pretty well obvious.

Anyway, the chick comes up to me and scolds me for going "like that" with my head, saying I should "ask" her to come over. Then, again -- lol -- she goes "what do I want". I was like, "I want u to dance for me". She grabbed (snatched, actually) my hand, and goes "okay, come on then". I go "hang on... what -- you're not into it?" She again goes that if I wanted her I was supposed to "talk" to her not go "like that" with my head. And she stormed off.

At first, I thought to myself wtf? "rejected" by a STRIPPER? I wanted to go after and say, "listen you fkkn idiot. I went 'like that' with my head cos I wanted to TALK to you, but I didn't wanna interrupt your convo with the bouncer dude. I thought ANY fkkin idiot would understand THAT". So I went after her, but she'd disappeared somewhere.

I think what it is, is that they don't like being treated like hors, and she got pyssed off cos that's what she thought I was doing. Well, fair enough, I was in a pretty ****y mood that night, so it might have seemed that way.

Anyhoo, almost straight after that, I saw this other one that I liked, but she was talking to some guy, but looking towards me. I raised my eyebrows in a "hi" manner and just hanged out nearby. She excused herself from the guy and came over to me. We said hi and I go to her "you look REALLY good". She goes "thanks, so do you". This chik had this really seductive smile on her. I was thinking she must get a LOT of customers with that smile. And yeah, it hooked me in, too, and I cut to the chase and go to her "listen, you really do it for me. I want u to dance for me". And off we went to some (semi) private room.

Interesting bit was, she started doing her thing, and then, as she was "riding" me, and had her head next to mine, she gave my ear a really nice lick. That turned me on BAD. But I was kinda confused by it, cos since I'd never had a lap dance before, I wasn't sure if that was a "standard" thing to do.

What a bytch man, lol. She turned me on that fkking bad with that little lick, but then it left me wondering the rest of the dance, and I didn't enjoy it as much as I otherwise would have, cos I kept thinking.. hang on man.. does it means she LIKES me? lol..

I didn't wanna seem like some fkkn chump stripper's-customer fooling himself into thinking the stripper wanted him in any way, but at the same time, i couldn't help but think that licking my ear was probably not something they do to everyone. Bytch!

I didn't even talk to her after it, cos I didn't want it to come out like I'm "trying to pick up a stripper", cos that feels uncomfortable to me cos I keep thinking that probably EVERY guy fancies his chances with her after she's danced, and I didn't wanna be some "average chump".



Anyway, the reason I say the strip club was a good experience is that it threw an interesting light on my approach anxiety. The reason I say that is 'cos these are chicks that, really, CAN'T "reject" you (my little previous misunderstanding with one aside). And yet, I was still VERY reluctant to even talk to them, let alone "approach" them (if that means trying to pick up). To me, that has me questioning just how comfortable around really hot chicks I ACTUALLY am, as opposed to how comfortable I THOUGHT I was -- ESPECIALLY in a "sexually charged" way.

See, the brain doesn't REALLY compute that "this is a strip club" and that "these are strippers". The more powerful bit of information flowing to the brain is that "these are hot chicks". And the reluctance to speak in a "sexually charged" manner arises from the "hot chicks" reality that the brain notices.

So I'm thinking a useful AID (but certainly no SUBSTITUTE) would be getting used talking to these strippers in that "sexualy charged" way I alluded to. Because, again, the brain registers that they are "hot babes" much more powerfully than it does that they are "strippers". Therefore the increased comfort level that develops translates across to OTHER hot babes that are not strippers. This is my theory anyway.

And even if it doesn't work, spending a few evenings a week for a few weeks in the presence of hot naked babes is not a bad way to pass the time.

 

[GamePlan]

I do consider it an approach/a conversation. So it's all good. But I advise you to practice (even if just saying Hi's for now ) during the daytime. I bet once you got some approaching skills during daytime, it'll be that much easier at night (when youre drunk and have less inhibitions..).

Though, I think if u can do it approaching in the daylight is way cooler in the first place. Something not too many guys do (over here I actually dont know anybody who does it?), plus the girls arent in the "im going to the club and i will be hit on by 5-10 guys" state of mind..thus less competition so to speak

Daniel, how old are you btw? just curious