my counselor's theory on why a woman tends to lose interest in me extremely quickly

[SW15]

stay in her orbit and see if something happens.

There are stories floating around about times when that effort was successful. That's more of the exception that the rule. Most men in a woman's orbit are not sexually successful with the woman that they are orbiting.

 

[GoodMan32]

It seems to be the operative paradigm for me.

The last time I got a 2nd date was when I was 23 (Even though there was no official date after our 1st dinner date, she continued having sex with me for a month. Same concept as getting multiple dates)

 

[GoodMan32]

There are stories floating around about times when that effort was successful. That's more of the exception that the rule. Most men in a woman's orbit are not sexually successful with the woman that they are orbiting.

It's difficult to gauge what's true and what's false (as I was getting the information secondhand). An employee who used to work in my residential building, however, told me the employee I ultimately ended up having sex with bragged behind my back once about how she'll never have sex with me, yet teases me into thinking sex is on the table.

That alleged brag took place about a year before we had sex.

 

[plumber]

In our latest session, my counselor shared an interesting theory of why a woman tends to lose interest in me extremely quickly (it has nothing to do with autism)

Here's her hypothesis: Other than my last free lay (back in 2021), none of my free sex has been with a woman I knew well. And I've never been on a date with a woman I knew well. My counselor said any man who only dates/bangs strangers will probably have a hard time keeping a relationship, simply because any 2 randomly selected strangers are highly unlikely to be compatible (and even if the 2 parties are willing to give each other the initial chance, it doesn't take long to figure out they aren't compatible). On the other hand, if 2 parties know each other well before they begin dating, they already have a pretty good gauge of whether they'd be compatible, which is why relationships with 2 parties who knew each other well ahead of time tend to last longer.

Her theory makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

i recall that you have shared your photo in this forum before. after that it was suggested to hit the gym and tone/bulk up at least a little. also have you ever had your hormones tested. just take a look if not, and there is more to it than just T. the internal identity that your struggling with can be dealt with from a hormone view. I mean most of the things you ask about; you will automatically know if your in tune. there is a couple of ways to get there, none of them are just to talk yourself into it.

is it worth trying something different to get results ?

 

[GoodMan32]

i recall that you have shared your photo in this forum before. after that it was suggested to hit the gym and tone/bulk up at least a little. also have you ever had your hormones tested. just take a look if not, and there is more to it than just T. the internal identity that your struggling with can be dealt with from a hormone view. I mean most of the things you ask about; you will automatically know if your in tune. there is a couple of ways to get there, none of them are just to talk yourself into it.

is it worth trying something different to get results ?

Having a hard time keeping a woman when you only go for strangers is something that rings true even for muscular men.

I've never thought about getting my hormones tested (but am open to the idea)

On the general topic of my dating/sex life, @BeExcellent has proposed I carry out an experiment where I dine at a bar locally.

I still haven't carried out the experiment locally. But on a trip I took earlier this month, I dined at a few different bars. Here's my field report.

At my hotel bar, other than the female bartender acting slightly affectionate with her hand, no one paid any attention to me.

At the first bar I went to outside my hotel, no one paid any attention to me.

At the 2nd bar I went to outside my hotel, a couple that ended up sitting next to me had an extensive discussion with me. By the end, it was like we had known each other for years. Even though that's not the same as romantic attention, it's something.

 

[jhonny9546]

A friend of mine is a clinical psychologist with PhD. He told me he has a number of female clients who are on dating sites for validation only and have no intention of actually dating or meeting anyone.

SMH...

Are those female clients actually in a relationship or single?


This is a situation I’ve found myself in.
I believe that figuring out whether someone is just looking for validation or genuinely searching for a partner is really tricky. For example, if we consider some external factors:

If you’ve increased your SMV, whether through appearance, social status, or money, and certain women suddenly start showing interest, it could mean they’re genuinely attracted to you.
They might be responding to a change in you, so their interest could be real, sincere desire.

On the other hand, when it comes to dating apps or social media, putting a like on her photos is more about you showing interest, and in that case, she might just be “playing” with you. That is validation.
There are many other examples.
This could be an entire topic on its own.

 

[Vanderdonck]

In our latest session, my counselor shared an interesting theory of why a woman tends to lose interest in me extremely quickly (it has nothing to do with autism)

Here's her hypothesis: Other than my last free lay (back in 2021), none of my free sex has been with a woman I knew well. And I've never been on a date with a woman I knew well. My counselor said any man who only dates/bangs strangers will probably have a hard time keeping a relationship, simply because any 2 randomly selected strangers are highly unlikely to be compatible (and even if the 2 parties are willing to give each other the initial chance, it doesn't take long to figure out they aren't compatible). On the other hand, if 2 parties know each other well before they begin dating, they already have a pretty good gauge of whether they'd be compatible, which is why relationships with 2 parties who knew each other well ahead of time tend to last longer.

Her theory makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

When you say you didn't know them well, what's that mean exactly?

BC I kind of agree with her, sexual energy comes from getting to know someone on SOME level. A complete stranger is not going to generate that very easily.

Physical traits don't do squat without personality to back them up. Her attitude or cleanliness could be very poor for example. Who wants to fukk that? Unless you're just in the mood for a quick bang, but that's what pros are for.

 

[GoodMan32]

When you say you didn't know them well, what's that mean exactly?

BC I kind of agree with her, sexual energy comes from getting to know someone on SOME level. A complete stranger is not going to generate that very easily.

Physical traits don't do squat without personality to back them up. Her attitude or cleanliness could be very poor for example. Who wants to fukk that? Unless you're just in the mood for a quick bang, but that's what pros are for.

Glad to elaborate on what I mean when I say we didn't know each other well.

Of my 9 free sex partners, I met 7 online.

Of those 7, there was one I banged after chatting virtually for 2 and a half weeks. The other 6 free partners I met online nailed me after (at most) only a few days of our initial digital contact. Some banged me the same day as our initial digital contact.

The married woman I had the monthlong affair with is the only free partner I had more than one session with. Incidentally, I refer to her (to this day) as the best sex I've ever had. Probably because even though we first banged the same day she replied to my Craigslist ad, we were able to build some bedroom chemistry through repeated sessions.

As for the 2 free partners I didn't meet online, there was one who chatted me up while catching a ride on public transportation. She then basically followed me home.

My other free partner I didn't meet online was a woman who used to work in my condo building. She's the one free partner I knew well ahead of time. We had known each other for 3 years (and flirted off and on for 2 years) before having sex. We likely would have had sex sooner (and more than once) if it weren't for the fact she was prohibited from getting with residents.

Next, let's discuss my sexless dates.

I largely (but not entirely) relied on tech methods to get my sexless dates.

There were some strangers I met organically for sexless dates too. Some examples off the top of my head being a woman approaching me at a festival in 2018 and a woman I cold-approached in 2023 on behalf of some guy who wanted me to serve as his wingman (she ended up preferring me)

There was a girl from a class in college who accepted my askout. We didn't exactly know each other though. We had never talked until the day I shot my shot.

Then (if you count this) there was a mini-date after an organized singles event earlier this year. You don't exactly know each other well after one organized singles event.

My longest sexless relationship was an 8 month relationship with a girlfriend I met through tech methods shortly after college (even though the relationship was technically sexless, we did just about every other X-rated thing you can think of). 8 months is enough time we eventually got to know each other well. Yet we started out as strangers.

All my other sexless dating escapades were much shorter-lived.

 

[plumber]

Having a hard time keeping a woman when you only go for strangers is something that rings true even for muscular men.

I've never thought about getting my hormones tested (but am open to the idea)

On the general topic of my dating/sex life, @BeExcellent has proposed I carry out an experiment where I dine at a bar locally.

I still haven't carried out the experiment locally. But on a trip I took earlier this month, I dined at a few different bars. Here's my field report.

At my hotel bar, other than the female bartender acting slightly affectionate with her hand, no one paid any attention to me.

At the first bar I went to outside my hotel, no one paid any attention to me.

At the 2nd bar I went to outside my hotel, a couple that ended up sitting next to me had an extensive discussion with me. By the end, it was like we had known each other for years. Even though that's not the same as romantic attention, it's something.

you are clearly trying to figure it out. and your persistent. you deserve recognition for that.

i know something about autism, if your in that spectrum i get it. i am not from an outsider view.

yes, muscle is not required for women to like you. they help you to like yourself and for other men to treat you better. likening yourself and better treatment from other men equals more attraction from women.

hormones' is very important. its is impossible to have self respect and respect from others if hormones' is out of balance. this is a fact that gets very small attention. when your in hormones balance you well get clarity and stable identity, and those equal respect. you will feel it and others will know. i don't think you have done anything wrong, its just some missing knowledge. and most men even those that look good don't know about this. I am sure; very sure of this. it not just about high T, but the balance, and T has to be high enough for you. When these are in balance, some of the autism traits if they exist likely will not be detectable. feel free to ping me separately if you have interest to learn more or your welcome to just ask more in this thread. generally the mods in this forum are negative about the impact of hormones'. most of the world doesn't get it yet. its real.

first step would be to get a hormone test panel.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I'm not a counselor, but I did do a lot of my former wife's homework for her when she got her masters degree in that subject. I think your counselor should be talking to you about self-imposed barriers to intimacy. Maybe your subconscious doesn't want you to be close to anyone, and that's why you have the relationships that you have. And then the next question is to explore why that might be happening. I don't know the answers; I'm just trying to help with the right questions.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I'm not a counselor, but I did do a lot of my former wife's homework for her when she got her masters degree in that subject. I think your counselor should be talking to you about self-imposed barriers to intimacy. Maybe your subconscious doesn't want you to be close to anyone, and that's why you have the relationships that you have. And then the next question is to explore why that might be happening. I don't know the answers; I'm just trying to help with the right questions.

That would explain the reluctance to broaden his shoulders.

 

[GoodMan32]

I'm not a counselor, but I did do a lot of my former wife's homework for her when she got her masters degree in that subject. I think your counselor should be talking to you about self-imposed barriers to intimacy. Maybe your subconscious doesn't want you to be close to anyone, and that's why you have the relationships that you have. And then the next question is to explore why that might be happening. I don't know the answers; I'm just trying to help with the right questions.

Just like I've said on the forum before that I lack the energy to work out when I get home from work, there's a high chance I'd end up lacking the energy to maintain a serious relationship (if I were to get one). That's one reason I can think of off the top of my head of why my subconscious might not want me to be close to anyone.

Fear they won't accept the true me could be another reason.

On a related note, here's yet another explanation of why I tend to go for strangers: At least if a stranger rejects me, I can convince myself "You just don't know me. That's why you turned me down."

Yet if a woman I actually know turns me down, I'm forced to acknowledge the possibility my rejecter thinks I have some type of personal flaw.

I've said before I'd rather get rejected by 100 strangers than get rejected by even 1 woman I actually know.

Even in a recent case where I got a tentative date lined up with a woman I know, I didn't directly ask her out. I approached the topic by telling her about a hypothetical scenario where I might ask her out. She then offered to be my date in a real scenario.

 

[SW15]

That would explain the reluctance to broaden his shoulders.

For any man, looks are #1. Looks are most important for men under their mid to late 30s.

 

[GoodMan32]

For any man, looks are #1. Looks are most important for men under their mid to late 30s.

What I'm hearing is: I've reached the age where looks aren't as important as they were in my youth.

 

[BeExcellent]

@Bible_Belt is onto something here. I agree you need to ask your counselor about the self imposed barriers to intimacy business. That appears valid in looking at your resistance to advice you receive here.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Yet if a woman I actually know turns me down, I'm forced to acknowledge the possibility my rejecter thinks I have some type of personal flaw.

I've said before I'd rather get rejected by 100 strangers than get rejected by even 1 woman I actually know.

Ay, there's the rub. Getting rejected by someone you know can feel awkward at best. But I believe it's only that way because we make it that way.

I've made moves on "platonic" female friends. Some have worked out, some were rejections. In almost every case once I realized I didn't have to feel bad about it, there were no hard feelings. Women hate being "cruel" so when I'm chill about it so are they. Only once did a girl kind of get weird about it, but I can't control that.

And that's just among friends. Among women I "know" (i.e. got to know while dating) it's much less of a thing. No harm no foul as long as you take a no as a no.

If you dig deeper, maybe with your therapist, there's a whole vulnerability thing at play here. Not a common topic among tough guy red pillers but once you embrace being vulnerable, it's more like a superpower.
I get how strangers seem less risky, and they are. You literally walk up and ask them out and move on if it's a no. And even then you can tell yourself "well I just made her day."

I can't rewire your brain but I can tell you that rejection isn't about flaws. At worst it's about differences. Another way to view it is we are all flawed so some people's defects are not going to align.

 

[SW15]

I agree you need to ask your counselor about the self imposed barriers to intimacy business.

This is the kind of thing that psychologists/counselors are good at exploring.

PUAs/red pillers have a different area of focus. PUAs/red pillers are focused on what creates desirable outcomes in the mating market. "Money, muscles, game" as Rollo Tomassi would say.

 

[zekko]

any 2 randomly selected strangers are highly unlikely to be compatible

That part does make sense. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for. If you are looking for a relationship, which is what it sounds like since you're complaining that the girl loses interest, then yeah it makes sense that you can make a better choice if you know something about the girls you're selecting. But if your social circle is limited, your choices of that type of girl is also going to be limited. Which turns it back into a numbers game. Doesn't seem fair really, but there it is.

 

[SW15]

That part does make sense. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for. If you are looking for a relationship, which is what it sounds like since you're complaining that the girl loses interest, then yeah it makes sense that you can make a better choice if you know something about the girls you're selecting. But if your social circle is limited, your choices of that type of girl is also going to be limited. Which turns it back into a numbers game. Doesn't seem fair really, but there it is.

It's common for men to be looking for some type of longer term relationship. Most men have a desire to pair bond in some way once they reach their mid to late 30s.

Men with limited social circles and an interest in extended relationships are either going to need to use swipe apps, send DMs on social media, or approach women in real life. All 3 experiences are unpleasant for middle tier men.

To some degree, those 3 methods are volume plays. However, doing the wrong things will make the numbers nearly impossible.

Dude swipes right on 2 Million Women, Gets 1 Date, 0 Sex

This guy swiped right on 2,020,459 women on Tinder over a 5 year period and only matched with 2,053 women. That's a match rate of less than 1/10th of a percent (.001016). Guy is a 26 year old and probably Sub 5. He's somewhat overweight but not ridiculously obese. He's probably in the 4 range...

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