(Money/Entrepreneurship) I don't really know what to do...

[Arete]

This last week or 2, I've been incredibly lazy because I don't really know what to put my energy into...

As a lot of you know, I tried my hand at dating coaching. I stopped doing that about a month or 2 ago, because after a little more than a year, my only clients were members from this forum. I hadn't even had a sales call with anybody through social media promotion, and what I was trying to do was damaging my in-person relationships with women. I hadn't been paid since April, and because this was also affecting my in-person relationships, I felt it was time to stop.

I tried to find something objective that didn't require me to play the social media popularity game, where it was a binary problem that didn't rely on sales skill - either the problem exists and I can fix it, or it doesn't, and I can't. That was email deliverability consulting, which is an actual problem...but most people solve it by having their IT guy get on it, or hiring somebody from Fiverr. There's an entrepreneurship forum I'm active on where I presented this, and a guy who's working in lead gen informed me of how others are solving this problem, detailing how he makes his money by offering full-stack lead generation, rather than focusing solely on the problem I wanted to solve.

Now...I quit my job at the beginning of this year. My boss was busy chewing me out again, and I thought to myself, "If I knew this was going to work, would I continue dealing with this?" The answer was "no", and I'd saved up a good bit of money, so I left.

Things haven't panned out the way I'd hoped, and I'm just not really sure what to do. I'm not sure where to invest my time, energy, and effort, because it feels like every choice I make is incorrect.

I could get a job, but that's just a band-aid fix. The reason I left in the first place was that I didn't have time to dedicate to pursuing this and was just going through the motions, doing the bare minimum in the hours after work.

I don't need to get rich tomorrow, but I need to find something where I can start getting paid today. And I don't know what that is.

Not sure what type of replies I'm expecting, if any, but I've been very stagnant lately because it feels like I just cannot win, no matter what I do.

It blows my mind how someone like you can't make a living as a dating coach. Did you see my Bootcamp journal? The struggle is unreal. Guys like me would easily pay a bunch of thousands for coaching.

Just an example, in my country there is this guy called Marquardt Frickert. He is the German equivalent to you in a forum that is also the country's equivalent to SoSuave. He charges exorbitant prices and can barely handle all the requests. I even considered getting him to coach me despite this.

To give you a newbie perspective, the issue for guys like me is trust. "Does this guy really know what he is doing?"

Reason why I think this? Because I found out people like you exist. In my opinion, you seem closer to a master. Why would I pay 1-3k for 3 days one-on-one coaching just to become second rate? If you lived in the same country, I would have asked you for this kind of service. I imagine you could give more reasonable prices too, compared to guys like that.

You say "$100/mo price tag", which I don't really understand. Did you try to make money by doing this remotely? If you did, it makes sense for this to not have worked out. Blockheads like me want someone like a "big bro" to show them how it's done in person.

I'll be honest, I would never pay money for remote coaching because PUA and DJ forums exist. Someone with an IQ high enough to attempt self-improvement, will also notice this. What additional value can remote coaching even provide with all the foolproof step-by-step guides?

Read any newbie posts, the single thing practically everyone lacks is something like a gym coach. Maybe you have forgotten since you came this far? To overcome inhibition all alone is brutal.

If your decision is already finalized, don't mind my post. Or Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and you have already tried what I decribed. But again, it blows my mind that you aren't loaded by now.

 

[BPH]

It blows my mind how someone like you can't make a living as a dating coach. Did you see my Bootcamp journal? The struggle is unreal. Guys like me would easily pay a bunch of thousands for coaching.

Just an example, in my country there is this guy called Marquardt Frickert. He is the German equivalent to you in a forum that is also the country's equivalent to SoSuave. He charges exorbitant prices and can barely handle all the requests. I even considered getting him to coach me despite this.

To give you a newbie perspective, the issue for guys like me is trust. "Does this guy really know what he is doing?"

Reason why I think this? Because I found out people like you exist. In my opinion, you seem closer to a master. Why would I pay 1-3k for 3 days one-on-one coaching just to become second rate? If you lived in the same country, I would have asked you for this kind of service. I imagine you could give more reasonable prices too, compared to guys like that.

You say "$100/mo price tag", which I don't really understand. Did you try to make money by doing this remotely? If you did, it makes sense for this to not have worked out. Blockheads like me want someone like a "big bro" to show them how it's done in person.

I'll be honest, I would never pay money for remote coaching because PUA and DJ forums exist. Someone with an IQ high enough to attempt self-improvement, will also notice this. What additional value can remote coaching even provide with all the foolproof step-by-step guides?

Read any newbie posts, the single thing practically everyone lacks is something like a gym coach. Maybe you have forgotten since you came this far? To overcome inhibition all alone is brutal.

If your decision is already finalized, don't mind my post. Or Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and you have already tried what I decribed. But again, it blows my mind that you aren't loaded by now.

I appreciate you holding me in such high regard.

I've been delivering my service through weekly check-in calls, dedicated channels with individualized assignments, workout routines, and audits (looks, clothes, etc). And that process DID work, very quickly, as a matter of fact, as evidenced by @nicksaiz65 success and my high-ticket client Ben, who lurks on this forum.

Performing this service in person, the way you describe, is something that I'd love to be able to do, but it doesn't make sense financially for me.

Think about how much you would be willing to pay someone like me for an immersion weekend. Maybe $1,000 - $3,000?

• Flight - Depending on where I'm flying, it would cost about $500 round trip
• Hotel - Average hotel price in the USA is $150/night, so that's another $300 if I were to do this for 2 nights
• Car - Average rental car price per day is about $50, so that would be another $100
• Festivities - Bars and clubs are where it would be easiest to teach approaching and closing, so when you factor in the cost of Ubers, perhaps cover charges, drinks, etc., that would probably be at least $100/night, so at least another $200 total

Beyond that, if I'm flying to your town, I have to do a LOT of legwork to find out where the spots are to go out and meet women - since I'm assuming that whoever I'm helping likely doesn't already know that information if they need my help meeting women. Plus, if you're paying all this money for my time and expertise, you probably don't want certain things included in that price: perhaps not having to wait in line, not having to pay for your Uber to the bar with me, and not having to pay for your/my drinks.

Now...if I charged enough and kept my costs low enough, this is a model that COULD be profitable, so I'm not saying it CAN'T work. What I am saying is that if people outside of the forum don't know me, or trust me - at least not the way those on THIS forum do - how can I expect them to spend thousands of dollars on me?

Remember, in just over a year, I was only able to build my Instagram to a little over 400 followers. I can't use certain messaging because, for example, I was suspended from Stripe due to selling "sexual services" as they deemed it, which extends to difficulties when it comes to advertising. Approaching and recording women is likely to get my accounts suspended or outright banned. And even if a strategy "works" when it comes to approaching women, the comments people are reading are from Karens and white knights calling me disgusting, saying what "really works", or labeling me a misogynist.

There are a LOT of problems I had to overcome without being paid, and even then, most people would rather spend their money on a dating profile makeover or a texting script.

Like I'd said before, I haven't gone and deleted everything, but it was damaging my personal relationships, costing me money, and I wasn't getting paid.

Know what, let's ask @nicksaiz65 . How much would you have been willing to spend if, instead of what we did online, I'd spent a weekend with you, approaching and providing advice?

 

[Arete]

if people outside of the forum don't know me, or trust me - at least not the way those on THIS forum do - how can I expect them to spend thousands of dollars on me?

What I know is, that guy I mentioned got the ball rolling through a forum. After he showed results for these random people in the forum, they naturally posted about it. One thing led to the other. Eventually, people started to search for his social media, not the other way around.

I'm saying this since I feel like it would be a waste to not use your abilities. You also seem a bit different from other people, who are also successful. You say you went from "Virgin to Stud". Having experienced the lower points makes you more relatable for people like me.

Giving up on one's goals and dreams in general always feels sad to me. I would keep trying if that's what you want to do and your situation allows for it.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I appreciate you holding me in such high regard.

I've been delivering my service through weekly check-in calls, dedicated channels with individualized assignments, workout routines, and audits (looks, clothes, etc). And that process DID work, very quickly, as a matter of fact, as evidenced by @nicksaiz65 success and my high-ticket client Ben, who lurks on this forum.

Performing this service in person, the way you describe, is something that I'd love to be able to do, but it doesn't make sense financially for me.

Think about how much you would be willing to pay someone like me for an immersion weekend. Maybe $1,000 - $3,000?

• Flight - Depending on where I'm flying, it would cost about $500 round trip
• Hotel - Average hotel price in the USA is $150/night, so that's another $300 if I were to do this for 2 nights
• Car - Average rental car price per day is about $50, so that would be another $100
• Festivities - Bars and clubs are where it would be easiest to teach approaching and closing, so when you factor in the cost of Ubers, perhaps cover charges, drinks, etc., that would probably be at least $100/night, so at least another $200 total

Beyond that, if I'm flying to your town, I have to do a LOT of legwork to find out where the spots are to go out and meet women - since I'm assuming that whoever I'm helping likely doesn't already know that information if they need my help meeting women. Plus, if you're paying all this money for my time and expertise, you probably don't want certain things included in that price: perhaps not having to wait in line, not having to pay for your Uber to the bar with me, and not having to pay for your/my drinks.

Now...if I charged enough and kept my costs low enough, this is a model that COULD be profitable, so I'm not saying it CAN'T work. What I am saying is that if people outside of the forum don't know me, or trust me - at least not the way those on THIS forum do - how can I expect them to spend thousands of dollars on me?

Remember, in just over a year, I was only able to build my Instagram to a little over 400 followers. I can't use certain messaging because, for example, I was suspended from Stripe due to selling "sexual services" as they deemed it, which extends to difficulties when it comes to advertising. Approaching and recording women is likely to get my accounts suspended or outright banned. And even if a strategy "works" when it comes to approaching women, the comments people are reading are from Karens and white knights calling me disgusting, saying what "really works", or labeling me a misogynist.

There are a LOT of problems I had to overcome without being paid, and even then, most people would rather spend their money on a dating profile makeover or a texting script.

Like I'd said before, I haven't gone and deleted everything, but it was damaging my personal relationships, costing me money, and I wasn't getting paid.

Know what, let's ask @nicksaiz65 . How much would you have been willing to spend if, instead of what we did online, I'd spent a weekend with you, approaching and providing advice?

Sure, I’ll bite.

I do think in-person coaching offers something that remote coaching can’t easily replicate. The instructor can actually observe your body language, vocal delivery, appearance, how you’re dressed, and your overall vibe. He can demonstrate approaches himself, watch you execute, and make corrections on the spot. That’s where I see the real value over something digital.

Personally, I’d prefer doing a bootcamp in a new city rather than somewhere I already go out regularly. Part of the appeal is making a weekend trip out of it. Think of it like a very nice vacation. I think it’s on BOTH the instructor and student to research the destination beforehand. You want a major city with a strong nightlife scene, enough volume, and plenty of alternative venues if one spot is dead.

As for price, I’d personally be comfortable with around $1,000 for the coaching itself, which would probably bring the trip to $2,000 all-in once you factor in flights, lodging, transportation, food, drinks, and other expenses. Beyond that, the economics start getting difficult for me to justify. Huge caveat: these are MY numbers, based on MY financial circumstances. I’m employed in tech, and I’m fortunate enough to have a salary that makes an occasional expense like this feasible with proper planning. That doesn’t mean it’s financially reasonable for everyone. I would NEVER finance a bootcamp or go into credit card debt for one. I’ve heard stories of guys spending so much on coaching that they couldn’t afford to continue going out afterward. That completely defeats the purpose. Game requires money too: parking, drinks, transportation, clothes, blah blah. And obviously your fixed expenses have to be paid first.

I've also heard horror stories of guys spending $10–15K on coaching. At that point I'm thinking, you could've bought a whole car with that money. Was it really worth it?

And there’s a difference between what I’d theoretically pay and what I’d actually purchase today. Right now? Hard no. I’m rebuilding savings after an expensive wedding season, and I have other financial priorities. Before spending that kind of money, I’d also want to know EXACTLY what I’m getting, see credible student testimonials, and understand the refund and cancellation policies. For that kind of money, I'm definitely doing my homework first.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Double post: on a reread of this thread, three statements you made stood out to me:

I could get a job, but that's just a band-aid fix.

I need to find something where I can start getting paid today.

But I'm running out of time and money, so I need something that can sustain me until it "takes off".

I’m genuinely curious how you reconcile these three statements.

If you’re bleeding, wouldn’t you WANT a Band-Aid to stop the bleeding while you address the underlying problem?

I understand your concern that employment would leave you too exhausted to work on the business. But wouldn’t a job provide the income to sustain you while you continue building it?

This isn’t advice. I’m genuinely trying to understand your reasoning here.

 

[Cheeky_James]

You are early 30s I believe and fit,
so my advice would be to look into the construction related Trades.
Carpenter, electrician, plumber, construction etc

Become an apprentice and in a few years you will be making good bank and eventually set up ur own biz if you are smart.

trades are potentially ‘uncapped’ in terms of salary and own biz prospects . (To a greater degree than corporate salary jobs)

and a by product is ‘tradies get the ladies’
Women love a guy who can fix sh*t and build sh.*t etc

if I had my go again re career I would have taken this path instead of University.

Godspeed.

 

[Prepostereax]

This:

If you love going to work you'll want to know every intricate detail of your profession.
Once you studied every aspect of your work you'll become good at it.
If you're good at it the money will follow

the money is secondary
What's worth more is internal status, the kind that needs no external validation

 

[BPH]

and your situation allows for it.

I'm not sure it does.

Double post: on a reread of this thread, three statements you made stood out to me:




I’m genuinely curious how you reconcile these three statements.

If you’re bleeding, wouldn’t you WANT a Band-Aid to stop the bleeding while you address the underlying problem?

I understand your concern that employment would leave you too exhausted to work on the business. But wouldn’t a job provide the income to sustain you while you continue building it?

This isn’t advice. I’m genuinely trying to understand your reasoning here.

I might HAVE to, but I don't WANT to. Because I'd feel like I'm moving backwards; I worked for a boss I hated for years, saved up a big chunk of money, then invested it into myself and ideas I thought would be successful, with no ROI to show for it.

The reason I haven't already transitioned to searching for a regular job is that it would require the same amount of effort and keep me in the same position I've been in for so many years - which is living in Delaware, in my parents' house, likely unable to move out for another several years because that would mean leaving that job and that income.

I had Gemini do some Deep Research on what the current job market looks like:

• The average corporate job posting receives between 90 and 250 applicants
• The average entry-level remote position receives over 400 applicants
• The conversion rate from application-to-interview is between 2% and 3%
• The average response rate from applying through sites like LinkedIn is between 3% and 5%
• The median time-to-offer in today's job search cycle is 108 days, or a little over 3 months
• That same job search cycle for mid-level and senior roles increases to up to 6 months
• Job interviews have stretched to a standardized 5-8 rounds of interviews for most roles, and as many as 36 rounds and 26 interview hours for more technical roles
• Nearly 90% of large employers utilize some form of AI-driven automated screening
• And all this for an average salary of $50,980 across all experience levels

If I can, I really would rather figure something out for myself, even if it makes less money at the start. I just need to make SOME money doing SOME thing - ideally remote, so I can move out of here...

This:

the money is secondary
What's worth more is internal status, the kind that needs no external validation

Not necessarily. Ever heard the quote by Calvin Coolidge: "Nothing in this world is more common than unsuccessful men with talent"?

Take a look at Jordan Belfort. He's a good salesman, but he's definitely not the best - that should be evidenced by the fact that he made his sales fraudulently. However, he is revered and extremely successful, almost ENTIRELY because of Leonardo DiCaprio's depiction of him in The Wolf of Wall Street.

I, for example, am very good at meeting and seducing women - at least comparatively.

Know what I'm not good at?

Playing the social media popularity game
Recording content that goes viral
Running successful ad campaigns
Showcasing my approaches without getting banned or suspended by recording without knowledge or consent

I don't think being really good at something means you're also good at the other things necessary to become successful with whatever that something is.

Apologies for all the pessimism. Again, if I saw an obvious solution, I'd be acting on it already.

 

[plumber]

The reason I haven't already transitioned to searching for a regular job is that it would require the same amount of effort and keep me in the same position I've been in for so many years - which is living in Delaware, in my parents' house, likely unable to move out for another several years because that would mean leaving that job and that income.

what would you do if you did not have parents house to live in. would you or could you find another location and a regular job. probably not as nice of a place as your in now... and pay rent.. and so on....

as your looking to get a change, it might be necessary to make a change that is not comfortable...

if your sure you can not advance where you are living, then can you change where you are living.

i don't think its easy... but as per you, what your doing now is not working for you.

when i suggested military, that was basically the reason; to get a clean break and fresh startup. i did not realize your age already.

can you take a night class to further your skills ? don't know your education background, but the idea is mainly to get into some different associations with different people that are doing different things than your doing now.

if your not in any service clubs or churches. same thing, just a way to use some time and also network into other sets of people that are doing different things than you are not. usually there is an entire different world exixting all around you that is invisible.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I might HAVE to, but I don't WANT to. Because I'd feel like I'm moving backwards; I worked for a boss I hated for years, saved up a big chunk of money, then invested it into myself and ideas I thought would be successful, with no ROI to show for it.

The reason I haven't already transitioned to searching for a regular job is that it would require the same amount of effort and keep me in the same position I've been in for so many years - which is living in Delaware, in my parents' house, likely unable to move out for another several years because that would mean leaving that job and that income.

I had Gemini do some Deep Research on what the current job market looks like:

• The average corporate job posting receives between 90 and 250 applicants
• The average entry-level remote position receives over 400 applicants
• The conversion rate from application-to-interview is between 2% and 3%
• The average response rate from applying through sites like LinkedIn is between 3% and 5%
• The median time-to-offer in today's job search cycle is 108 days, or a little over 3 months
• That same job search cycle for mid-level and senior roles increases to up to 6 months
• Job interviews have stretched to a standardized 5-8 rounds of interviews for most roles, and as many as 36 rounds and 26 interview hours for more technical roles
• Nearly 90% of large employers utilize some form of AI-driven automated screening
• And all this for an average salary of $50,980 across all experience levels

If I can, I really would rather figure something out for myself, even if it makes less money at the start. I just need to make SOME money doing SOME thing - ideally remote, so I can move out of here...

Thanks for explaining your reasoning. I understand your perspective better now.

Those job stats are about right. I’ve heard that as a rule of thumb, for a “good job” you want to budget 6 months minimum, and expect to do around 20 interviews.

Since you mentioned Hormozi, I remembered this video where he discusses his framework for transitioning from employment to full-time entrepreneurship. Savings, replacing your income, and establishing consistent revenue, all that.

Thought it might be worth a listen.