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AlphaDraconis

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Oh and to p1ss her off worse, tell her you and Mei Ling are about to watch Fifty Shades of Grey, and you’ll get back to her only when she has calmed down... preferably tomorrow :p
 

rjc149

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Also, when you bring it up -- don't make it a serious event or a big deal, don't preface this with "we need to talk."

When you see her Thursday, greet her, then just say "Look, there's something I want to talk about real quick before we get started. I feel disrespected that you've asked me to be exclusive and you're ... etc etc."

I wouldn't say "it's disrespectful" -- don't make it an objective fact. It may not be to her, or to someone else. But it is to you. So make sure you say "I feel ...etc"

Yeah it's beta lol but so is being in a monogamous relationship and this is what you want with her. You have to be a little beta to have healthy relationships with women. It's just the way it is.
 

Bigpapa

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Good posts @rjc149 , and glad that you joined the club and start posting

what makes you sleep with girl , does not keep her around . Looking like you do not care it is good for when you try to seduce her , but not good for relationships , as women will push forward to see your limits , and she can end up doing really nasty things

sleeping with girls is a different skill set than having a good relationship with girls . What is good in one can be very bad for the other one and vice versa
 

RickTheToad

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Hey,

Girl im seeing has a big social circle, including male friends.

One of them crops up a fair bit. Has a decent career, not a bad looking chap.

Career path similar to hers. She's quite open about they go for walks from time to time, likes chatting to him about career, mentoring, etc amongst other things. Also said she mentioned things to him between me and her and that he apparently said i sound like a good bloke, could be right man for her or something to that effect.

She told me months ago no man shes been involved with has met her daughter, apart from male friends like this man. Didnt have to volunteer that, could have just kept it quiet.

She mentioned he has girl friend of a few years.

Initially when she mentioned male friends didn't care as it was beginning of things, now 3/4 months later I sometimes wonder whether there's more to this guy.

For example today we spent all day together with kids when her daughter said x is coming over later isn't he to drop the weights off (she did mention last week he was dropping weights off for home gym at some point). Could be me being paranoid and misreading but thought she looked a bit off balance briefly by her daughter saying it.

A few weeks ago she mentioned people crashing at hers and mentioned female friends and this guy has in the past lol. She said it in such a normal open way, thst made me think if something was going on she wouldn't have mentioned him doing that, even though to me it's an odd thing to do, particularly as he has a girlfriend... apparently.

She also mentioned they speak on phone regularly. She's extrovert, very sociable, always chatting to various friends.

I'm wary of mentioning it as could make me look insecure, paranoid etc and cause the end of it.

But as relationship progresses, particularly as she raised exclusivety subject last week, wondering whether a conversation around boundaries is needed at some point.

If he is/was her fwb clearly nothing serious is destined to happen at this point as it surely would have done by now, so I'm thinking as long as I keep her interest levels high,, I shouldn't be worried about these kind of men. Just be confident I'm the catch and not show insecurity or raise it.

But at same time it doesn't sit right and I'm thinking if I need to somehow raise this without pissing her off as there's a chance nothing is happening/he's not a long term threat.... not now but at some point.

I know directly raising it is unlikely to end in a positive outcome, she could easily lie anyway and unless I found evidence may never find out.in fact right at beginning of seeing each other, one night when drunk together I did casually ask if they had ever slept together she casually said no way, he's not her cup of tea.

Im thinking if there's a way of being more covert in broaching the subject...
Just browsed, but you seem to act or portray a little needy to her. Females will have guy friends, it shouldn't matter. Remember, YOUR the prize, not her. You cannot control another person, they need to control themselves. Why are you dating a MILF? Are you a DWHAK?
 

B80

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Just browsed, but you seem to act or portray a little needy to her. Females will have guy friends, it shouldn't matter. Remember, YOUR the prize, not her. You cannot control another person, they need to control themselves. Why are you dating a MILF? Are you a DWHAK?

yep, her and I have daughters of similar age.

i'm 41 and I've found most women in their 30's either come with kids or want a man to have kids asap. I prefer option 1 for potential relationships as I have no interest in more kids, or being used as a sperm donor.

just to add, the issue isn't that she has male friends, but spending an evening alone with one of them (who she mentioned calls her most days a month or so back), watching a film together. you wouldn't even have a slight concern around the woman if someone you had been seeing a while and were exclusive did this? you wouldn't raise it with them at all, just carry on secure that you're the prize and its her loss if she f***s up?
 
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RickTheToad

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yep, her and I have daughters of similar age.

i'm 41 and I've found most women in their 30's either come with kids or want a man to have kids asap. I prefer option 1 for potential relationships as I have no interest in more kids, or being used as a sperm donor.

just to add, the issue isn't that she has male friends, but spending an evening alone with one of them (who she mentioned calls her most days a month or so back), watching a film together. you wouldn't even have a slight concern around the woman if someone you had been seeing a while and were exclusive did this? you wouldn't raise it with them at all, just carry on secure that you're the prize and its her loss if she f***s up?
Need to be careful with MILF's. They can be a wolf in a sheep's clothing. Their primary concern is their survival, then their kids, then their dog Barney and then everything else. While I cannot tell you that I can confirm that I was ever cheated on, I will tell you, and I've documented here a couple times that when I was dating absolute smoke shows a couple of years ago it was a concern of mine. Two years ago, solid 9's back to back. I went to the hospital for kidney stone surgical removal, and the lady I was dating for five or six months went to another state (airplane) to receive tutoring to complete her masters or something. I just went silent. She came back two weeks later, I recovered and she wanted to come over, and she did. We had marathon sex and a week later she said she wants to continue to see me, but wants to see others too. No problem, take care and have a good life is what I said. Over the next year she apologized, reached out, etc, I was silent. I do not accept that type of behavior. She swore up and down she didn't do anything, but the simple fact that she went on vacation while I was in the hospital was unacceptable.

The more attractive the female, the more interest she's going to receive from other dudes. I remember she showing me texts when we first started dating on how many texts she gets from guys. She even shown me texts from her superiors (teacher) that were married and wanted to sleep with her. I said, then what's stopping you, go if you like, no worries. The point I am saying is that if they feel they are higher than you, they will play the field. You need to set boundries and enforce them. In your situation, just accept it's a FWB and do not get attached. However, I will also stress, if this type of behavior is not acceptable to you, you need to tell her and say I do not like this. You also have to be willing to walk away. You need to have a discussion to yourself on how to proceed with this female and moving forward. I've drawn the line several times, and only once did I actually break my rules and follow up (next day I said I missed her. She then did want to do something two weeks later, but I said, no, this is not right. Take care of yourself. Her only response, I will really miss you. Whatever.). All the others, they came back to check in. I never responded, but it shows conseqeunces for their actions. While you may not benefit from them losing you directly (aside from some self-esteem), the next dude will.
 

B80

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Need to be careful with MILF's. They can be a wolf in a sheep's clothing. Their primary concern is their survival, then their kids, then their dog Barney and then everything else. While I cannot tell you that I can confirm that I was ever cheated on, I will tell you, and I've documented here a couple times that when I was dating absolute smoke shows a couple of years ago it was a concern of mine. Two years ago, solid 9's back to back. I went to the hospital for kidney stone surgical removal, and the lady I was dating for five or six months went to another state (airplane) to receive tutoring to complete her masters or something. I just went silent. She came back two weeks later, I recovered and she wanted to come over, and she did. We had marathon sex and a week later she said she wants to continue to see me, but wants to see others too. No problem, take care and have a good life is what I said. Over the next year she apologized, reached out, etc, I was silent. I do not accept that type of behavior. She swore up and down she didn't do anything, but the simple fact that she went on vacation while I was in the hospital was unacceptable.

The more attractive the female, the more interest she's going to receive from other dudes. I remember she showing me texts when we first started dating on how many texts she gets from guys. She even shown me texts from her superiors (teacher) that were married and wanted to sleep with her. I said, then what's stopping you, go if you like, no worries. The point I am saying is that if they feel they are higher than you, they will play the field. You need to set boundries and enforce them. In your situation, just accept it's a FWB and do not get attached. However, I will also stress, if this type of behavior is not acceptable to you, you need to tell her and say I do not like this. You also have to be willing to walk away. You need to have a discussion to yourself on how to proceed with this female and moving forward. I've drawn the line several times, and only once did I actually break my rules and follow up (next day I said I missed her. She then did want to do something two weeks later, but I said, no, this is not right. Take care of yourself. Her only response, I will really miss you. Whatever.). All the others, they came back to check in. I never responded, but it shows conseqeunces for their actions. While you may not benefit from them losing you directly (aside from some self-esteem), the next dude will.
gosh that's pretty shameful, going away when you're in hospital. I guess it if you set expectations of them low it doesn;t come as so much of shock. treat them in you mind as fwb's. comes as less of a shock when/if it happens again in future.

now I've been sober a couple of days and my mind is clearing, I'm being a bit more honest with myself and there's a few things about her that make her unsuitable as a long term girl friend for me, so I'm leaning towards treating her as an fwb. a bit of fun,sex, experience being around different attractive women again.

I think the whole exclusive chat a week or so ago after spending a good weekend with her made me invest a bit more emotionally (maybe a ploy on her part to draw me in further).

will see how feel tomorrow before meeting her but too many doubts in my mind right now to think about her as more than an fwb. a good learning experience, tool to get back in the game after years out. can see high chance of trouble with this one whether this month or 2 years down the line, so need to see it for what it is rather than hope she'll change.

as a result of this, feel less bothered about this other guy and may not bother even mentioning it, not from a place of being scared, but not caring enough about her beyond a fwb, just enjoy the ride for now and see where we are further down the line.
 
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RickTheToad

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gosh that's pretty shameful, going away when you're in hospital. I guess it if you set expectations of them low it doesn;t come as so much of shock. treat them in you mind as fwb's. comes as less of a shock when/if it happens again in future.

now I've been sober a couple of days and my mind is clearing, I'm being a bit more honest with myself and there's a few things about her that make her unsuitable as a long term girl friend for me, so I'm leaning towards treating her as an fwb. a bit of fun,sex, experience being around different attractive women again.

I think the whole exclusive chat a week or so ago after spending a good weekend with her made me invest a bit more emotionally (maybe a ploy on her part to draw me in further).

will see how feel tomorrow before meeting her but too many doubts in my mind right now to think about her as more than an fwb. a good learning experience, tool to get back in the game after years out. can see high chance of trouble with this one whether this month or 2 years down the line, so need to see it for what it is rather than hope she'll change.

as a result of this, feel less bothered about this other guy and may not bother even mentioning it, not from a place of being scared, but not caring enough about her beyond a fwb, just enjoy the ride for now and see where we are further down the line.
I always set the bar low.. Common decency. If a person cannot give you common decency, they do not deserve to be in your life. This is true for any relationship in your life. The most important thing I can stress is self-respect. If you do not respect yourself, how can you expect anyone else to respect you? Use her body, but do not get emotionally attached. I do not get emotionally attached to any female any more. Will I lose some, sure, but it's better them than me.
 

AlphaDraconis

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I always set the bar low.. Common decency. If a person cannot give you common decency, they do not deserve to be in your life. This is true for any relationship in your life. The most important thing I can stress is self-respect. If you do not respect yourself, how can you expect anyone else to respect you? Use her body, but do not get emotionally attached. I do not get emotionally attached to any female any more. Will I lose some, sure, but it's better them than me.
And the irony is, once she senses he doesn’t really give a sh1t anymore, she’ll start going into extreme chase mode to lure him back into an exclusive arrangement. The beauty of this is, OP doesn’t have to do or say anything other than pull back somewhat.
 

RickTheToad

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And the irony is, once she senses he doesn’t really give a sh1t anymore, she’ll start going into extreme chase mode to lure him back into an exclusive arrangement. The beauty of this is, OP doesn’t have to do or say anything other than pull back somewhat.
Yep, this is usually the case. Females always want what they cannot get. A dude must leave some sort of doubt in their minds in order to have them chase and not be complacent. If they think you'd never leave or you'd run after them, then they have more power than you in the relationship. If they know that you do not care if they stay or go, depending on interest level, they will not chance it. It also depends on age. A female who's in their mid-20's has more options than a female in their mid-30's; despite what Sex and the City portrays.
 

Barrister

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Late getting into this thread and have not read the 7 pages of replies but I will chime in based on your original post.

Back when I was blue-pilled and married, my wife left me for one of her male buddies who she then entered a multi-year LTR with. I never thought he was a threat because he was a 4 and she was an 8 or a 9. They barely ever hung out and she almost never talked about him. You just never know with women.

The girl I just dated for a year and recently broke up with had a lot of beta male orbiters. I didn't feel threatened by them because none of them were anywhere close to her in looks, but that may have been naïve on my part given what happened with my ex wife. I'll never know for sure if anything happened with her and any of those guys but I have reason to believe something did.

At the same time, you can't control women either. If a woman wants to cheat, she will cheat. However, I do think that drawing clear boundaries is important because it accomplishes several things. First and foremost is that it forces her to ACT and make a decision on what is more important, seeing her male friends 1:1 or being in a committed relationship with you. In my book, no person in a committed relationship should be spending time 1:1 with someone of the opposite sex. That is a boundary for me and it applies to me equally as it applies to a girl I'm in a relationship with. There are some women who won't accept that boundary, and will try to label me as insecure or controlling for it. That's ok. Those women can go date someone else instead of me. Second is that it reduces the chance that an emotional affair happens, which can then lead to a physical affair, and it reduces the chances of someone meddling in your relationship. If a woman WANTS to cheat, she will, but if your boundaries remove her from the types of situations that evolve into an affair or cheating, it does reduce the risk. And it's also very important that you are standing up for yourself - by setting these boundaries. Good women will respect your doing this.

If you aren't exclusive with a girl, then I wouldn't bring up male friends. I just take note at the stage in the dating process as to if she has any male friends and if so, how many, and how close they are and compare and contrast the same for her female friends. The more male friends she has and the fewer female friends she has, the bigger the red flag. I have learned not to enter exclusive relationships with women like that. But if she asks to be exclusive, and you really want to be, then that would be the time to bring up the guy friends and how you couldn't be in an exclusive relationship with a girl who spends time 1:1 with other men - it's just not what you are looking for.

Because you said you were concerned with how bringing up her guy friend(s) would go, and that she would react negatively to it, I will say that I have learned it is VERY important to form and communicate your own boundaries without thought as to whether a girl is going to like them or not. You can't worry whether or not she will like your boundary. You simply state your boundary and if she doesn't like it, you walk away and never look back.
I remember you and I's most recent ex's sounded so similar when we spoke in another thread.

OP - I can tell you just like @oldmanofthesea that you must set down this boundary very clearly from the beginning. In the LTR I just got out of, this was a constant struggle and it ended up being one of the primary reasons I ended things at the end. When you are brand new in a relationship as I was 2.5 years ago, it is easy to not want to appear insecure or rock the boat by talking about your new LTR's supposedly "platonic" relationships with men.

I can tell you my ex constantly did 1 on 1 meetings with her male orbiters and it was not remotely appropriate. I let it pass constantly at the beginning. Towards the end of the relationship (less than a year prior), there was a specific orbiter who she became VERY friendly with. I have written about it here in other posts as well as in the NC thread. I attempted to put a boundary down at this time -- but my problem was I had let this type of behavior go on for so long that it was hopeless. She then crossed the boundary in multiple ways towards the end of the relationship (and I only knew this was happening because I looked at her phone - she specifically did not tell me because I had told her I wasn't okay with it) with this specific orbiter and it was a complete violation of trust.

My point is that you have to set down the boundary early in the relationship so she understands the expectation. I agree with @oldmanofthesea that 1 on 1 time with a male (that isn't you or a family relation of hers) should not be happening. Being friends is fine in social settings -- but there is never a reason for a woman in a committed LTR to be 1 on 1 with a male (that isn't you) in a non-professional setting. Movie night with another male "friend" sounds like something my ex would have thought was ok. That is absolutely not ok if you are exclusive.
 
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B80

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I remember you and I's most recent ex's sounded so similar when we spoke in another thread.

OP - I can tell you just like @oldmanofthesea that you must set down this boundary very clearly from the beginning. In the LTR I just got out of, this was a constant struggle and it ended up being one of the primary reasons I ended things at the end. When you are brand new in a relationship as I was 2.5 years ago, it is easy to not want to appear insecure or rock the boat by talking about your new LTR's supposedly "platonic" relationships with men.

I can tell you my ex constantly did 1 on 1 meetings with her male orbiters and it was not remotely appropriate. I let it pass constantly at the beginning. Towards the end of the relationship (less than a year prior), there was a specific orbiter who she became VERY friendly with. I have written about it here in other posts as well as in the NC thread. I attempted to put a boundary down at this time -- but my problem was I had let this type of behavior go on for so long that it was hopeless. She then crossed the boundary in multiple ways towards the end of the relationship (and I only knew this was happening because I looked at her phone - she specifically did not tell me because I had told her I wasn't okay with it) with this specific orbiter and it was a complete violation of trust.

My point is that you have to set down the boundary early in the relationship so she understands the expectation. I agree with @oldmanofthesea that 1 on 1 time with a male (that isn't you or a family relation of hers) should not be happening. Being friends is fine in social settings -- but there is never a reason for a woman in a committed LTR to be 1 on 1 with a male (that isn't you) in a non-professional setting. Movie night with another male "friend" sounds like something my ex would have thought was ok. That is absolutely not ok if you are exclusive.
well yeah and thats the thing isn;t it. some saying male friends are fine and don't be insecure... I agree, if it's just when meeting in social situations, when others are around (although would be foolish not to have a degree of vigilance, even if small)

but one on one at her place, watching a film together on the one couch she has just doesn;t sit right at all. can't imagine they just sat there for 2 hours just watching a film, lol, particularly knowing her sexually charged she is. of course nothing may have happened, but it's not something that can just be laughed off and I doubt many men would be happy finding out their g/f was in this situation, unless they dont care about her/losing her, for whatever reason.
 

Bigpapa

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well yeah and thats the thing isn;t it. some saying male friends are fine and don't be insecure... I agree, if it's just when meeting in social situations, when others are around (although would be foolish not to have a degree of vigilance, even if small)

but one on one at her place, watching a film together on the one couch she has just doesn;t sit right at all. can't imagine they just sat there for 2 hours just watching a film, lol, particularly knowing her sexually charged she is. of course nothing may have happened, but it's not something that can just be laughed off and I doubt many men would be happy finding out their g/f was in this situation, unless they dont care about her/losing her, for whatever reason.
Relationships are more or less about boundaries

if a woman is putting herself in a position where she can be seduced , is not really a woman that you can build things with :)
 

mrgoodstuff

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Relationships are more or less about boundaries

if a woman is putting herself in a position where she can be seduced , is not really a woman that you can build things with :)
Their action alone prevents "building". How will your "stuff" build up to someone causing distraction, disruption, and devauluation? It can't...
 

Bigpapa

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Their action alone prevents "building". How will your "stuff" build up to someone causing distraction, disruption, and devauluation? It can't...
I think that it has more to do with trust . A relationship that does not have trust is doomed

everything else can be perfect , but trust is the element that glues everything togheter from not falling apart

a woman that puts herself in positions to be seduced , sooner or later she will gave in to her impulse . It can be because she is mad at you for no reason , or because she’s bored , whatever
 

mrgoodstuff

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I think that it has more to do with trust . A relationship that does not have trust is doomed

everything else can be perfect , but trust is the element that glues everything togheter from not falling apart

a woman that puts herself in positions to be seduced , sooner or later she will gave in to her impulse . It can be because she is mad at you for no reason , or because she’s bored , whatever
Trust is important, but if all of her actions are derogatory behind your back, if she doesn't value you, if she's always doing things that cause disruption and a loss of peace, that no "building" can occur.
 

AlphaDraconis

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It’s a pity relationships cant just be straight forward... shouldn’t have to resort to keeping a woman on her toes and so forth, but it seems many women want to experience a whole range of emotions, including anxiety / excitement... likely the reason they love horror movies, and bad boys because they know how to keep them on their toes and give them that adrenaline rush.

I once questioned a girl about this, and she told me that they do - more than anything - want a loving man, but they don’t trust experiencing a loving relationship because the heartbreak is too much to deal with if he suddenly becomes abusive, cheats, etc, so they’ll get with a bad boy because a loveless man can’t really break her heart. This is apparently why they try tame him, and if they succeed, their ‘engulfment’ issues kick in, so they dump him.
 
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