Male Friends

[metalwater]

I think this roller coaster is about to end... and I feel relieved. Shame to lose an attractive girl, but I've really lost the plot recently. Smokimg 30 cigarettes, drinking more and more. Pathetic, but no coincidence.

Sent a couple of texts last night, which I deleted. Seems to have tipped her over the edge as she's been texting today, minus the kisses. She kept asking what they said, I can't recall nothing offensive, then she started saying she doesn't care what they said in the grand scheme of things... I read that as meaning its over, so doesn't matter, going by her general tone.

Feel relieved already, as like I mentioned earlier feel cold towards her and that's probably been noted in my general tone. waiting for the hammer blow now.

turning point. what do you do. things can be much better.

only need two things from what you have shared.

Girl im seeing has a big social circle, including male friends.


One of them crops up a fair bit. Has a decent career, not a bad looking chap.

Feel relieved already, as like I mentioned earlier feel cold towards her

This is a common turn of events. If she was telling the story it would sound different. She would be telling how you are becoming insecure and that you're not as terrific as she thought. The truth is that she is causing your feelings and treating you like a plate.

This will never work out in a way that will be satisfying for you. You might be able to force her to behave how you wish, but she wants to behave how she wants to do. What you want to be satisfied is a woman that wants to please you AND desires your attention more than from any other man.

Find other women, in your groups, or her groups, OLD, anyplace. start chatting with them; about anything. any additional feminine energy into your life. it will trigger you inside to be stronger. of course don't simp to any of them, just get to know them more.

 

[metalwater]

I'm thinking you're right, wondering if I'm dealing with someone with proper mental issues. What with climbing management ladder so quickly, general dislike of kids, not close to her own.

low interest from a woman looks exactly like NPD in a woman. the solution however is exactly the same.

 

[DSterlen]

Yeah he could have lied where he's going I guess.

Anyway, I jokingly mentioned how her kisses were missing and she's perked up again. Loads of kisses, emojis, exclamation marks. Non stop texting, back to her usual self. Crazy. ****ing insane.

I'm telling ya man, when you see her texting/talking to one of them
You: Who's that?
Her: It's just Dave
You: Oh, bachelor number two! He's so nice! I love Dave
Her: (whatever)
You: You're right, maybe Tom should be number two and Dave should be Bachelor number one. Who's number three, Steve maybe?

Don't make a big deal out of it. Make it fun. Don't push the act too far.

You're already basically going to bail anyway. See what happens.

 

[B80]

I'm telling ya man, when you see her texting/talking to one of them
You: Who's that?
Her: It's just Dave
You: Oh, bachelor number two! He's so nice! I love Dave
Her: (whatever)
You: You're right, maybe Tom should be number two and Dave should be Bachelor number one. Who's number three, Steve maybe?

Don't make a big deal out of it. Make it fun. Don't push the act too far.

You're already basically going to bail anyway. See what happens.

This sounds interesting. Will give it a go and report back.

 

[Bigpapa]

Well, look at from this perspective. She is 110% aware that she’s mind fvcking the OP, and has been doing it from the start. A conscientious person wouldn’t be subjecting someone to such emotional torment. I know, that if I was in an r/s, and had a close female friend around me all the time, netflixing and chilling, that it’s just wrong on every level, so I just wouldn’t do it.

Just because she’s female, doesn’t mean she should be treated with kid gloves, and subsequently a hall pass to abuse. B1tches like this could drive a guy to suicide, and they’d gleefully move on with life like nothing happened.

She’s set him up for a catch 22 - if he says something, she reverts to victim, and accuses him of being a paranoid control freak; if he says nothing, she sees him as a chump with idiot tattooed on his forehead. See how that works? That’s why the only viable solution to any of this, is to just walk away — no explanation given.

This isn’t a relationship, it’s psychological warfare being waged upon the OP, but he’s gradually smartened up to what’s happening to him, now it’s time to break free from the spider’s web before he ends up a drained husk of his former self.

She deserves zero respect, and deserves no more of his valuable time. It’s time to pull the rip cord ASAP.

I am not saying that you are not right in what you are saying , just that the op should have left for a long time by now

Pulling one of this now , will not make him save face . If he stayed till here , he has to man up and say that her relationship with the other guy is odly close , and that maybe it is too soon to be exclusive

by doing this , he will man up and revert the exclusivity frame that she came with , and if she starts to make drama to leave

takes more balls to reject her exclusivity frame that she imposed , than just disappear , as she knows exactly why he would just disappear

a strong guy tries to impose the frame that benefits him the most , which in this case is reverting back to fwb

 

[AlphaDraconis]

Yeah he could have lied where he's going I guess.

Anyway, I jokingly mentioned how her kisses were missing and she's perked up again. Loads of kisses, emojis, exclamation marks. Non stop texting, back to her usual self. Crazy. ****ing insane.

Ah, man you’re a total simp being played so hard. This is called ‘fractionation’, and typical mind fvck technique of a narcissist. First they subject you to lots of love bombing, then cloak and dagger psychological abuse. Wash, rinse, repeat.

As you’ve been experiencing lots of psychological torment (starved of her love), she then starts love bombing you again (all the kisses and emojis etc). Now, in your head you’re thinking, ‘Oh I think I’m just overreacting, she loves me really’. This is also known as gaslighting where you think you’re just imagining things, but constantly questioning yourself.

But watch what happens in a day or so... just as you think the dust has settled, cloak and dagger attacks will resume, then you’ll be feeling all fvcked up again, until you eventually lose your sanity some months down the line.

You’re already smoking / drinking heavily, right? That’s exactly why.

 

[metalwater]

I am not saying that you are not right in what you are saying , just that the op should have left for a long time by now

Pulling one of this now , will not make him save face . If he stayed till here , he has to man up and say that her relationship with the other guy is odly close , and that maybe it is too soon to be exclusive

by doing this , he will man up and revert the exclusivity frame that she came with , and if she starts to make drama to leave

takes more balls to reject her exclusivity frame that she imposed , than just disappear , as she knows exactly why he would just disappear

a strong guy tries to impose the frame that benefits him the most , which in this case is reverting back to fwb

exactly what the other guys with her have done.

 

[B80]

Ah, man you’re a total simp being played so hard. This is called ‘fractionation’, and typical mind fvck technique of a narcissist. First they subject you to lots of love bombing, then cloak and dagger psychological abuse. Wash, rinse, repeat.

As you’ve been experiencing lots of psychological torment (starved of her love), she then starts love bombing you again (all the kisses and emojis etc). Now, in your head you’re thinking, ‘Oh I think I’m just overreacting, she loves me really’. This is also known as gaslighting where you think you’re just imagining things, but constantly questioning yourself.

But watch what happens in a day or so... just as you think the dust has settled, cloak and dagger attacks will resume, then you’ll be feeling all fvcked up again, until you eventually lose your sanity some months down the line.

You’re already smoking / drinking heavily, right? That’s exactly why.

Don't disagree but this is the first time she stood off like today, so hasn't been an ongoing thing.

 

[AlphaDraconis]

I am not saying that you are not right in what you are saying , just that the op should have left for a long time by now

Pulling one of this now , will not make him save face . If he stayed till here , he has to man up and say that her relationship with the other guy is odly close , and that maybe it is too soon to be exclusive

by doing this , he will man up and revert the exclusivity frame that she came with , and if she starts to make drama to leave

takes more balls to reject her exclusivity frame that she imposed , than just disappear , as she knows exactly why he would just disappear

a strong guy tries to impose the frame that benefits him the most , which in this case is reverting back to fwb

Bro, she’s waiting for him to crack over this issue over the male friend, so she can mind fvck him more by turning into victim, and shaming him for being a manipulative control freak, even though it’s her manipulating him. Once he’s been shamed and punished enough, he knows not to bring this issue up again, then she can continue to carry out her abuse with impunity. ‘Manning up’ and mentioning the issue won’t do sh1t, except what I just mentioned. It’s fruitless.

 

[Bigpapa]

Bro, she’s waiting for him to crack over this issue over the male friend, so she can mind fvck him more by turning into victim, and shaming him for being a manipulative control freak, even though it’s her manipulating him. Once he’s been shamed and punished enough, he knows not to bring this issue up again, then she can continue to carry out her abuse with impunity. ‘Manning up’ and mentioning the issue won’t do sh1t, except what I just mentioned. It’s fruitless.

yes , it might be the case , but sometimes you have to go the long way , so you will not question yourself later if you did the right thing or not



if she starts acting like that , he can and should just leave . We know that arguing with women is pointless

 

[B80]

Now I think of it, definitely something odd going on with this guy. Asking me about putting weights workout/routine together then same week this guy is apparently turning up with weights for her.

No doubt playing him along too. Funny in a ****ed up way.

 

[Bigpapa]

Now I think of it, definitely something odd going on with this guy. Asking me about putting weights workout/routine together then same week this guy is apparently turning up with weights for her.

No doubt playing him along too. Funny in a ****ed up way.

The only odd thing about the other guy is that he is watching a movie with your girl in a Sunday night , when he also has a gf

 

[B80]

Whole thing just feels surreal now, amazing how people like this actually exist.

 

[samspade]

Whole thing just feels surreal now, amazing how people like this actually exist.

They exist, but they don't have to exist in your universe.

 

[Bigpapa]

Whole thing just feels surreal now, amazing how people like this actually exist.

mate , just send her a text in which you say that things look wired between her and the guy friend , and that things moved too fast to exclusivity , and that you need more time to know each other

this way you will get a stone out of your chest , which is more important than worrying what she will think about you

 

[AlphaDraconis]

Whole thing just feels surreal now, amazing how people like this actually exist.

I know, man - because you’ve never experienced it before. NPDs and BPDs are such experts at mind fvcking, DARPA should employ them within their psychological warfare projects.

It does sound like you’re in a bit too deep (emotionally, physically) to pull out right now, but you realise what’s happening, and it certainly won’t get better, and don’t be mistaken in thinking you can change her either.

A few more months in you’ll prob be so fvcked up, you’ll have no choice but to pull the rip cord. And by then, prepare for the psychological aftermath after you do walk for good, because you’re going to experience a suicidal depression you’ve never experienced before. That can be averted if you get out now, but it’s obviously your choice what happens next.

In about six months, my words will prob resonate with you more.

 

[rjc149]

I personally believe that the booze and a lot of the very poisonous responses you're getting here are also contributing to anxiety.

It's hard to arrive at the conclusion that she's a NPD/BPD who is maliciously mind-fvcking you without knowing this woman, or knowing exactly how your relationship has played out.

You're clearly prone to substance abuse, dude. That's a problem that exists independently of any girl trouble you're having. That's contributing to a deteriorating emotional state. I don't think reading a lot of these extremely negative posts is helping, either.

So far, we know a few things. We know she's just out of a nasty breakup and still dealing with the ex fallout. We know her interest in you is currently quite high. We know she has male friends and orbiters. We know that she watched a movie with one of the cozier ones.

Everything else is purely speculation and interpretation.

But I will have to agree with everyone that neither you, nor her, are in a good mindset to begin a healthy relationship right now. She's still raw from her breakup, and it's quite likely you're her rebound guy. Which is fine, it's okay to be a rebound guy and get some good poon for a bit, as long as you know what's what.

But instead of drinking yourself into these states and then reading all the doom and gloom here, just take a step back. Get a big picture view, of everything, all the facts that you know and make a rational decision like a man who can make good decisions for himself.

You should not be investing into this relationship until she has shown you signs that she's worthy of it -- and unfortunately, movie night with a handsome orbiter is questionable behavior, combined with the fact that she is very likely on the rebound.

You're not going to feel better about this by distancing, playing aloof, or preemptively punishing her by cutting her off for something you believe she is doing but have no evidence of.

Communicate with her directly. If you believe there's bullsh!t, call her out. Clear the air, get it off your chest. Observe her reaction. Decide accordingly. And if this causes you to lose her, she was already gone.

The only way to keep a woman is by being willing to lose her.

 

[spikeanut]

Whole thing just feels surreal now, amazing how people like this actually exist.

OP, tons of great advise given out in this thread already. Although I would hesitate on any that relies on you addressing the issue. In all honesty, this is now a lost cause and there is nothing to address. She is not LTR material, period; at least not for you. The harsh reality of this is: you allowed this to happen. It's not a matter of people like this existing...many, if not the majority women are like this. She is no different than any other woman...what is different is she now has low interest in you; which is why all this started. This is how normal women treat men they have low interest in.

Your best plan of attack is to pull back immediately. Not necessarily ghost for now...but significant pull back. Your earlier response of what happened to all her kisses via txt is just more evidence for her to know fully, you are in her frame. She is not scared or frightened of you leaving her one bit. Don't go the whole "bachelor #" route..again, that shows how much affect she has on your life. Always remember OP, you are the man, you are the highly sought after prize. Would a man of stature, would a man of status, be constantly texting a woman back and forth as is implied by your description of events? I bet you guys texts hundreds of times a day.

You are a Man OP, you have more important things to do than to worry about one woman who is NOT your wife, fiance, or even girlfriend. Start loving and valuing yourself OP. You deserve better than her; so start acting like it. She is now a plate..and a very low quality one at that. Your insecurities will continue to bleed out around her, until ultimately she will be done with you and leave you completely desolate and depressed. It's instances like this that leave men with no other apparent option than to blow their brains out. Value yourself OP..she is nothing special.

 

[B80]

I personally believe that the booze and a lot of the very poisonous responses you're getting here are also contributing to anxiety.

It's hard to arrive at the conclusion that she's a NPD/BPD who is maliciously mind-fvcking you without knowing this woman, or knowing exactly how your relationship has played out.

You're clearly prone to substance abuse, dude. That's a problem that exists independently of any girl trouble you're having. That's contributing to a deteriorating emotional state. I don't think reading a lot of these extremely negative posts is helping, either.

So far, we know a few things. We know she's just out of a nasty breakup and still dealing with the ex fallout. We know her interest in you is currently quite high. We know she has male friends and orbiters. We know that she watched a movie with one of the cozier ones.

Everything else is purely speculation and interpretation.

But I will have to agree with everyone that neither you, nor her, are in a good mindset to begin a healthy relationship right now. She's still raw from her breakup, and it's quite likely you're her rebound guy. Which is fine, it's okay to be a rebound guy and get some good poon for a bit, as long as you know what's what.

But instead of drinking yourself into these states and then reading all the doom and gloom here, just take a step back. Get a big picture view, of everything, all the facts that you know and make a rational decision like a man who can make good decisions for himself.

You should not be investing into this relationship until she has shown you signs that she's worthy of it -- and unfortunately, movie night with a handsome orbiter is questionable behavior, combined with the fact that she is very likely on the rebound.

You're not going to feel better about this by distancing, playing aloof, or preemptively punishing her by cutting her off for something you believe she is doing but have no evidence of.

Communicate with her directly. If you believe there's bullsh!t, call her out. Clear the air, get it off your chest. Observe her reaction. Decide accordingly. And if this causes you to lose her, she was already gone.

The only way to keep a woman is by being willing to lose her.

Hi, yes no doubt drinking more contributes. Got out of hand past few days and stops now. Really isn't too a big a deal in terms of reducing it, don't want to give the impression of being some kind of alcoholic !

Just to clarify, the ex she had issues with last month is her ex husband from 4 years ago, so she isn't on the rebound from recent relationship.

I may not have framed some of my posts well, but she is showing high interest. Says I can come over whenever now, suggests I come over regularly, allowed to be around her child, bought me presents, suggests holidays, clearly really into me when I'm with her.
Like yiu say, this guy is something to keep an eye on, but I'm not convinced something is going on, going by how he's been mentioned previously. I'll think about whether to raise it this time or not. I'll do it face to face if I do so I can see her reaction. Over text will give her time to think about what to say.

Despite this thread may be showing otherwise I'm confident I haven't shown any insecurity/weakness around her, frame strong. Tease her regularly, lots of physical contact, convesation flows... overall dynamics are great.I don't think she is in control of this relationship or pulling the strings by a long stretch tbh, despite what some on here probably think.

Key thing is not getting too involved whilst there are question marks around, which I'm confident I can. draw it out whilst still looking for other girls. Seems a shame to potentialy sabotage an escalating relationship over this. Attractive girl, regular sex, get on well etc

 

[Roober]

If she shows that she is not committed to, albeit through friendships with other men, then you should not commit to her.

As @AlphaDraconis suggested, I would start openly chatting up a female friend and see how she reacts.

I lean more towards the "close friends of the opposite sex do not exist in an LTR" camp. If an opportunity arises for the two to hook up, you can almost guarantee it will happen at some point.

Also, if she has only male friends and few female friends, that is a problem in of itself. That means no other women find her interesting enough to spend time with, not a good place for an LTR candidate.