Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

LTR Dating is Your Opportunity to Mold and Prepare

Atom Smasher

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There are two broad categories of men in this place. There are the relationship-minded guys and the "I just want to get laid" guys. Of course it is more complex than that, but for the sake of simplicity in this thread, this dichotomy works.

I've come to realize that many men are completely unaware that a relationship with a woman is his opportunity to mold and shape her into the woman she has the potential to be. We often think she is what she is when we first meet her. But in fact, if she is made of good raw material, we can gradually shape her into the Red Pill way of understanding life.

Many women half-heartedly show feminist leanings in their speech, but are only doing it because they cannot think for themselves and they have never met a man who has the strength and brains to guide her. Women are afraid of being ostracized from the herd, so they had better toe the line and say the things they think they're supposed to say.

When a man of strength comes along, much like your humble host of this thread, she is able to drop that charade and conform herself to the expectations of that man. For a marriage-minded man, the LTR should consist of his molding her to conform to his leadership. He does this by planting ideas that she will later think about.

If you're an authentic man, she will be eager to please and to live up to your expectations. But she needs to learn what those expectations are. Covert communication is key in teaching women. That's the only language they are truly open to. At least we can say that it is easier to convince a woman of something covertly than directly. Direct verbal instruction is often received as "Daddy Discipline" and that certainly has its place. But to normalize and heal a woman of our current societal maladies, covert means must be employed.

This is best accomplished by verbally "musing" about life. You might be together in a quiet place, and you start to muse about life and about relationships. To her, this is received as you revealing who you really are in an unguarded moment, but to you, you sly dog, it is conveyed to accomplish a purpose. Your purpose.

Example:
"You know, I've been thinking about relationships [she will now be on full alert]. I see so many women being disrespectful to their boyfriends or husbands, yet this is the same man who would take a bullet for her and lives to protect her. Yet these days she is offended at the thought of taking care of him in daily practical ways. Isn't that sad?"

This is just a quick example, but you can see that in doing this you got her full attention right off the bat, you created a visual picture for her (a man shielding a woman from harm), and implied that it's shameful that some women feel it's beneath them to take care of the house and their man.

Everybody is different and must word things according to their own personality, but I think I've conveyed the general idea. Covert instruction and boundary-setting is effective and permanent.

Along the same lines, here's how to get a woman to fall madly in love with you:
In another "musing" session, tell her that you've noticed that women always fall in love when they are apart from the man, not when they are together. She quietly ponders him in her heart and comes to realize why she loves him. That just seems to be the way it works..." Most women have never considered this. By stating it covertly and "innocently", you've just lubricated the gears of love and she will completely reinterpret her thoughts about you, in a positive sense. "I must be falling in love with him..."

Use covert communication to your advantage. Women are extremely malleable. Just look at their destruction from the media. You can undo most of that because she wants a man who she can look up to and who will guide her.

Covert comms gets the job done, men. Women are water, and you are the container that defines their shape in your kingdom. She is looking for clues about your expectations. She will fully understand if you communicate them covertly, and enforce them ruthlessly overtly.
 

guru1000

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Hehe, just wrote about boundaries in the other thread. Going through something like this right now regarding male friends. So easy to deal with when you’re a black belt ;)
 

TheMonkeyKing

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I saw one of my Spanish birds at the weekend. She was moaning about how Catalans want independence from Spain (she's from the south). In fact she bought it up a couple of times so I knew it bothers her. I made some comparisons with the UK Brexit deal, and she seemed to take some offense and went a bit glassy-eyed, because, though I don't participate in mainstream politics, I believe in the independence of states through democracy. She started going cold.

Earlier on, she had been telling me how she missed watching the bull-fighting with her grandparents back in Spain. A fairly controversial subject in some circles, I rounded off our political conversation by saying that the EU could easily one day outlaw bull-fighting completely, which would likely be the result should the subject be bought to European Parliament, in order to appease the socially just attitudes across the rest of the continent. Funnily enough she backed down and softened up again at this point.

The most effective way to shape and mold, in fact often the only way, is to appeal to the the frame of reference and emotional outlook of the individual.

This skill, and standing by an independent opinion is essential for any aspiring ladies' man.
 

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To add to my OP, these techniques should always be used for her good and yours, not to manipulate her. You are using covert comms to build a better, healthy relationship for both of you, not to manipulate her into some kind of mindless slavery. A balanced woman will most definitely seek to submit to you if she feels your strength and your quality of character. You are simply opening the door for her and making it "safe" for her to let go and submit. It's what she wants to do, but so often can't because men don't understand those things that block her and make her cautious.
 

Roober

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Great thread @Atom Smasher and good points indeed. A woman will fully trust and submit to man that is capable of leading her. Your method is essentially inspiring a woman to think on her own about your value, not merely telling her what she should do. Women, and men for that matter, do not react well when told what to do. They react when they are provided the tools and able to use them themselves. That is adult learning theory 101. We are not children any more... most of us anyway!

Two influential texts to me support this big time...
In Dominance by True Story - a short article, google it!
The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida - I am going to read it again...
 

btownbuck2012

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If you're an authentic man, .
Excellent post but what's above is key. If you're not AUTHENTIC and she sniffs this out she'll go feral on you. The only thing a woman hates more than a weak man is a weak man who's fooled her into thinking he's strong for a while...

It's such odd behavior to wrap your head around. Women respond to strength but seem to resent it too, i.e. **** testing, acting up, etc. That's why you have to be authentic. Any chink in the armor or incongruence in your behavior and they attack.
 
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guru1000

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Long read, but a real convo with a current girl I've been seeing who has a handful of male friends. Good value here:

Her: So what are you looking for?

Me: I have no expectations and am OK with what happens however big or however small.

Her: I mean are you looking for something serious?

Me: Serious? <Puzzled Look> What do you mean?

Her: You know, a long-term relationship, eventual marriage, kids. I'm not rushing into things. I just want to know what you are looking for.

Me: Sure I'm open to it ... that is ... with the right girl

Her: What is the right girl to you?

Me: One who is beautiful, familial cultured with old-school thinking, understanding, fun, and a great conversationalist <These all are attributes that describe her>

<She's smiling>

Me: ... and one with no male friends

Her: What is the problem with male friends?.

Me: Do these male friends want to sleep with you?

Her: No, they are just friends.

Me: <Chuckles>

Her: What's so funny Mister!?

Me: Well ... if you didn't know, you are a beautiful girl. Men are friends with you with reason. And that reason is to get into your pants. Haha. Like you didn't know!

Her: Well, whether or not they do, doesn't mean I would let them.

Me: True. Just begs the question, that if you were to get serious down the road, would it be respectful to your partner to hang out with male friends whose deeper intent is to have sex with you.

Her: <quiet & thinking>

Me: Well ... regardless, you are a single girl. So you can have as many male friends as you like. <Smile>
The following is a breakdown of expressing your expectation regarding male friends. Accordingly, should she ever request exclusivity, she knows upfront what my definition of exclusivity entails.

Last night, I got a phone call, saying that if we got serious, she would drop her male buddies out of respect for the relation. Notice, I did not force her into anything. I simply explained to her what my expectation was should she request exclusivity. She is free to accept or deny. Genuine desire can only be created where there is room to ruminate and to act. If my expectation were imposed, her desire would collapse.

Never impose your will upon women. Simply state your expectation(s) overtly in a if-it-ever-gotten-to context or covertly. Let her reach the conclusion of meeting that expectation on her own accord.
 

resilient

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Oh! It's been ages since I decoded w0manese. I'm going to have fun with this one. :p Not like you need it, Guru. This is more of an exercise for me.

Her: So what are you looking for?
What is your value to me?

Me: I have no expectations and am OK with what happens, however, big or however small.

Her: I mean are you looking for something serious?
Are you going to push me for exclusivity? (somehow I imagine she has muted or closed off body language with this question. Women hate hate pressure.)

Me: Serious? <Puzzled Look> What do you mean?

Her: ...I'm not rushing into things. I just want to know what you are looking for.
I'm still evaluating my options and trying to calculate your value in where you measure up to your competitors. I just want to know how I should be investing my time in you accordingly.

Me: Sure I'm open to it ... that is ... with the right girl

Her: What is the right girl to you?
Am I the right girl for you or rather are you the right man for me?

Me: One who is beautiful, familial cultured with old-school thinking, understanding, fun, and a great conversationalist <These all are attributes that describe her>

<She's smiling>
DJ fist bump

Me: ... and one with no male friends

Her: What is the problem with male friends?.
Are you threatened by your competition? Does my quantity of options threaten your perceived chance at an LTR with me?

Me: Do these male friends want to sleep with you?

Her: No, they are just friends.
They do want to sleep with me, ofc, maybe have covert intentions, yet I wouldn't openly admit them to you silly. (hand push/smack on your shoulder with a grin by her).

Me: <Chuckles>

Her: What's so funny Mister!?
Do you mock my attempt to cover up their covert intentions? ::insert eyeroll::

Me: Well ... if you didn't know, you are a beautiful girl. Men are friends with you with reason. And that reason is to get into your pants. Haha. Like you didn't know!

Her: Well, whether or not they do, doesn't mean I would let them.
I may consider letting them sleep with me if their seduction moves are persuasive enough to get me excited. However, don't expect me to openly ever admit any activity occurring when I'm hanging out with them.

Me: True. Just begs the question, that if you were to get serious down the road, would it be respectful to your partner to hang out with male friends whose deeper intent is to have sex with you.

Her: <quiet & thinking>
Judging for sure... hamster is in full swing. Is he going to be too high maintenance? Is he going to be texting/calling to see where I'm at or who I'm with? Is he going to be stalking my social media? Is he going to be too controlling with who I'm allowed to see? Is he going to attempt to take my freedom and independence away? Is he too much like my father?

Me: Well ... regardless, you are a single girl. So you can have as many male friends as you like. <Smile>
Good... You pass the "test". You're stating you'll give her, her freedom. Yet, covertly, at any time, you can easily remove the carpet, drop plate, and call up a new batter from your bullpen.
 
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BeExcellent

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Thoughts from the old lady:

I've come to realize that many men are completely unaware that a relationship with a woman is his opportunity to mold and shape her into the woman she has the potential to be.
This can come from the father of a woman also, not just from the relationship partner. If the woman's father did a good job of modeling what a MAN is then the woman is more likely to have the innate foundational qualities that lend themselves to subordination to her mate. Even if she strays from that foundation along the way, she cannot absolve herself of it. It is the man's job therefore to check the foundation as he gets to know her. A woman with the right sort of foundation will find comfort in a man who can lead her. And the best leadership comes in the form of a benevolent dictator in my opinion. And she may fear the process (which means you as the man will deal with her anxiety to some degree or other - EVEN if you are in fact the correct man to lead her.)

Many women half-heartedly show feminist leanings in their speech, but are only doing it because they cannot think for themselves and they have never met a man who has the strength and brains to guide her.
This is a largely true statement. I agree strongly that women who have never met a man who can lead them will refuse submission to any man they find unworthy of their submission. I disagree that women are unable to think for themselves. Some must. Some do not have the luxury not to (and yes, it is a luxury in my mind not to have to make all the decisions and etc.) precisely because they have not encountered the proper man to whom she can submit.

It requires self-examination to look inward and see how that manifests, and to see why. Allow me to explain this from my perspective as a female case study. I had a very strong father figure. Alpha in every way. Deeply religious. My mother however was substantially damaged from her family, and she held my father in contempt throughout their marriage. So I grew up with religious values but foundational conflict. A strong father figure juxtaposed with a contemptuous covert narcissist mother who seethed that my father REQUIRED submission even as she submitted. So my pattern was not to trust men who were akin to my father as a young woman (and also to be wholly conflict avoidant). Not because I wasn't exposed to good men, but because of the flaw in my own foundation. In other words my mother failed to reinforce the imprint of my father, thereby undermining his influence. I chose a man to marry who appeared on the outside to be the type of man like my father, but he had a more malleable core (something my mother was desirous of), and after I got married I found he didn't have the leadership nor strength that I needed to respect him over time. But you see I chose him. For that I am fully accountable. I had choices from men who were like my father...and I chose someone who was more in line with what my mother would choose for me. Interesting.

I would submit to the reader that I did not have the maturity nor the insight as a young woman to discern the things that I have described in the paragraph above. Over time I came to see exactly why my father's role was so very important, and I also came to recognize the pathos of my mother's psyche. But had someone tried to explain it to me years ago? I doubt I could have listened. I lacked wisdom and I lacked perspective.

(Perhaps in this way I too was unable to think for myself at that time in my life. I can see that in the context of what Atom is saying here.)

Life experience has changed that although I still of course am a work in progress.

The irony now is that I know exactly what I need in a man and yet it is exceedingly hard to find because so few men are worthy of my submission. Although I meet plenty of men who have the "quality man" resume covered (from the perspective of what other men value) I meet few who upon examination are qualified to lead me personally. I find myself asking whether or not I can submit to men who ask me on dates, whether or not I think they can LEAD me, whether or not I will experience comfort relaxing into their leadership. For various reasons the answer is almost universally no. And I do not say that from a haughty place, although it will be perceived in that way by some, but rather I say that as an assessment of what is. Currently I am seeing a man who I think might have the capacity to lead me, and I know of two others who might also (but one of those potentials will never bear fruit as that relationship has run its natural course). Whether either of those remaining men are the correct fit for me will hinge on how their flaws meld with my own. In other words can the net positive aspects of the relation overcome the net negatives. Only time will tell.

I imagine it is tough for men who would pursue a LTR or a marriage. Men were able to see the influence of my father I believe but they neglected to see (or were not aware of) the influence from my mother as it was insidious. Now I am able to see it for myself, and thus have been able to grow and mature and understand myself in a way that has healed that foundational conflict, but it is not an easy process, it is daunting.

And although healed that foundational conflict has left scars, or fingerprints if you will. And I have to remain cognizant of that.

I think that as a man develops his own core he must be prepared to lead and guide the ship. This is not an easy task at all, and I further agree that if he finds a woman with whom he has compatibility and if he sees in her foundational qualities that he values, there is value in making the effort to mold her. And it will be to some degree or another a painful process. Refinement is never easy, whether one undertakes it in ones self or whether one seeks to refine another through leadership and guidance. The more easily a woman is to be molded, the less resistant, in many ways, the healthier she is...but there are always spurs and imperfections that must be forged out. Both in you and in your woman. It takes tremendous character to submit to this process as a team.

The best metaphor I ever saw for marriage was an image of two grindstones turning toward one another, ground as smooth as polished granite, pressing essential oils from a plant material. Think about that image. How did those stones become so smooth? They ground away the edges one from the other and became the well oiled machine over time and through a process of refinement/polishing.
 
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Roober

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Thoughts from the old lady:



This can come from the father of a woman also, not just from the relationship partner. If the woman's father did a good job of modeling what a MAN is then the woman is more likely to have the innate foundational qualities that lend themselves to subordination to her mate. Even if she strays from that foundation along the way, she cannot absolve herself of it. It is the man's job therefore to check the foundation as he gets to know her. A woman with the right sort of foundation will find comfort in a man who can lead her. And the best leadership comes in the form of a benevolent dictator in my opinion. And she may fear the process (which means you as the man will deal with her anxiety to some degree or other - EVEN if you are in fact the correct man to lead her.)



This is a largely true statement. I agree strongly that women who have never met a man who can lead them will refuse submission to any man they find unworthy of their submission. I disagree that women are unable to think for themselves. Some must. Some do not have the luxury not to (and yes, it is a luxury in my mind not to have to make all the decisions and etc.) precisely because they have not encountered the proper man to whom she can submit.

It requires self-examination to look inward and see how that manifests, and to see why. Allow me to explain this from my perspective as a female case study. I had a very strong father figure. Alpha in every way. Deeply religious. My mother however was substantially damaged from her family, and she held my father in contempt throughout their marriage. So I grew up with religious values but foundational conflict. A strong father figure juxtaposed with a contemptuous covert narcissist mother who seethed that my father REQUIRED submission even as she submitted. So my pattern was not to trust men who were akin to my father as a young woman (and also to be wholly conflict avoidant). Not because I wasn't exposed to good men, but because of the flaw in my own foundation. In other words my mother failed to reinforce the imprint of my father, thereby undermining his influence. I chose a man to marry who appeared on the outside to be the type of man like my father, but he had a more malleable core (something my mother was desirous of), and after I got married I found he didn't have the leadership nor strength that I needed to respect him over time. But you see I chose him. For that I am fully accountable. I had choices from men who were like my father...and I chose someone who was more in line with what my mother would choose for me. Interesting.

I would submit to the reader that I did not have the maturity nor the insight as a young woman to discern the things that I have described in the paragraph above. Over time I came to see exactly why my father's role was so very important, and I also came to recognize the pathos of my mother's psyche. But had someone tried to explain it to me years ago? I doubt I could have listened. I lacked wisdom and I lacked perspective.

(Perhaps in this way I too was unable to think for myself at that time in my life. I can see that in the context of what Atom is saying here.)

Life experience has changed that although I still of course am a work in progress.

The irony now is that I know exactly what I need in a man and yet it is exceedingly hard to find because so few men are worthy of my submission. Although I meet plenty of men who have the "quality man" resume covered (from the perspective of what other men value) I meet few who upon examination are qualified to lead me personally. I find myself asking whether or not I can submit to men who ask me on dates, whether or not I think they can LEAD me, whether or not I will experience comfort relaxing into their leadership. For various reasons the answer is almost universally no. And I do not say that from a haughty place, although it will be perceived in that way by some, but rather I say that as an assessment of what is. Currently I am seeing a man who I think might have the capacity to lead me, and I know of two others who might also (but one of those potentials will never bear fruit as that relationship has run its natural course). Whether either of those remaining men are the correct fit for me will hinge on how their flaws meld with my own. In other words can the net positive aspects of the relation overcome the net negatives. Only time will tell.

I imagine it is tough for men who would pursue a LTR or a marriage. Men were able to see the influence of my father I believe but they neglected to see (or were not aware of) the influence from my mother as it was insidious. Now I am able to see it for myself, and thus have been able to grow and mature and understand myself in a way that has healed that foundational conflict, but it is not an easy process, it is daunting.

And although healed that foundational conflict has left scars, or fingerprints if you will. And I have to remain cognizant of that.

I think that as a man develops his own core he must be prepared to lead and guide the ship. This is not an easy task at all, and I further agree that if he finds a woman with whom he has compatibility and if he sees in her foundational qualities that he values, there is value in making the effort to mold her. And it will be to some degree or another a painful process. Refinement is never easy, whether one undertakes it in ones self or whether one seeks to refine another through leadership and guidance. The more easily a woman is to be molded, the less resistant, in many ways, the healthier she is...but there are always spurs and imperfections that must be forged out. Both in you and in your woman. It takes tremendous character to submit to this process as a team.

The best metaphor I ever saw for marriage was an image of two grindstones turning toward one another, ground as smooth as polished granite, pressing essential oils from a plant material. Think about that image. How did those stones become so smooth? They ground away the edges one from the other and became the well oiled machine over time and through a process of refinement/polishing.
Great post. It seems to be a bit of a double edged sword in modern society.

-On the man's side, there is a very small percentage of men capable of leading a woman properly. Doing everything naturally to make a woman fully trust that man, and I don't mean when a woman says it. I am speaking of the trust a woman gives when she fully submits to her man.

-On the woman's side, there are very few women even willing to submit because of their past experiences and their relationship history. If They do find this man, they then sabotage the relationship because of fear of submission. It feels so "against the grain". They end it, then can't understand why he is still in their mind.

And I will admit, leading is difficult with life running circles around you, surrounded by mostly weak men, and the women filling the void left by all the weak men. Doing this for months and years through an ltr takes dedication and a true mindset change... One which many men are not capable.

Why? Because as the court system shows, most men are quitters
 

Atom Smasher

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I disagree that women are unable to think for themselves. Some must.
I was directly referring to women with feminist leanings, although I will say that by far, most if not all women essentially take most of their social and moral cues from outside of themselves, rather than from an internal locus. Women are by and large stuck within a web of social tensions which hold them up and give them definition and a sense of significance. I picture this as similar to a spider web. Men, on the other hand, tend to develop a more internal locus of control and can therefore more easily swim against the current and detach from social pressures. Not fully, or course, but certainly far more easily.

In general, for a single woman (especially with feminist leanings, what the tribe says, goes.This is survival.

You, @BeExcellent, are not a typical woman in my opinion, and therefore some of my harsher statements don't necessarily apply to you (although some probably do). You must be aware that the very fact that you hang out here makes you quite atypical. But apart from that, you generally (not every single time, but usually) make more sense than any woman I've ever seen here. Of course, we men tend to formularize and state things dogmatically as a sort of short-hand to get the point across. But there are always exceptions.
 

wifehunter

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Woman was made as a helper for Man. This just reinforces that idea. And, is a refreshing angle! !!:D

Quality thread!
 

The Duke

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This definitely resonates as my last live in long term relationship was very similar to what you have outlined. In my case it was her grandfather that did a good job of modeling what a man is as he played a large role in raising her. Her foundation was formed with old school values that made her attractive mentally. I was the “benevolent dictator” just like her grandfather was to her grandmother and she found clarity, direction, support, and strength from that arrangement. She told me on a regular basis that I reminded her of her grandfather. She was plenty fearful and showed lots of anxiety along the way of “grinding” thru the process of what our relationship was going to be according to my expectations. Her mothers influence has caused her many issues along the way along with negative behavior that I had to deal with. It was no surprise that her mother and grandfather never got along!

@BeExcellent: I would submit to the reader that I did not have the maturity nor the insight as a young woman to discern the things that I have described in the paragraph above. Over time I came to see exactly why my father's role was so very important, and I also came to recognize the pathos of my mother's psyche. But had someone tried to explain it to me years ago? I doubt I could have listened. I lacked wisdom and I lacked perspective.
-
Lack of perspective, wisdom, and insight along with low self-awareness are all very common amongst women. Even women in their 40’s struggle with these things. It keeps me from seeing them as long term prospects.

The analogy of marriage/LTR relationships being much like two grindstones is very true. But I’ve stayed too long grinding away until there was not much grindstone nor stone left. I was mentally exhausted and lost most all attraction. I should have brought in a 3rd party(counselor/grinder stone) to help. It would have taken some of the burden off of me and we would still be together. Regardless of how much of a leader you are, if her foundation has too many flaws I suggest you chose someone else. You will wear yourself out trying to mold her into something that is conducive to long term relationship success. By the time I got her to where she needed to be, I no longer felt like her lover. I felt more like a father. She’ll make the next guy a very good woman and he will have me to thank for making his life easier!

But the main problem I encounter is women who don’t have enough of a foundation. Most are deficient in personal skills and self-awareness. I don’t have the energy to go thru what I went thru before. I’m done doing charity work. Women expect men to be leaders, be in good shape, have good careers, have good income, own nice houses, drive nice cars, be so tall, have a certain look, talk a certain way, etc. Yet so few bring more than their looks and a cracked foundation to the table.

I have no doubt I’m in the top 20% of men, yet I’m not impressed with what is out there to get into LTR’s with. Too few expectations are placed on women and as men we are at fault for that.
 

BeExcellent

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Finding self aware and self actualized people of either gender is no small undertaking. Like you @Howiestern I find far more chaff than wheat. So many of the people who are in the dating market as older people (after their first marriage falls apart IF they married in the first place) still carry around the issues that led to the demise of the prior relationship(s). And then these people wonder why they have trouble finding someone else, OR if they find someone else, the old unresolved issues come home to roost within the new relationship and end up undoing it as well over time. So many people have not stopped to look in the mirror and see whatever it is THEY are bringing to the table that is rotting things...and they stay in this cycle.

But I think there is so much value in sorting out ones self for ones self (quite independent of a relationship or anyone else) because it gives a man the chance to mature into a man who can take the helm not only in his own life but in a woman's life as well, and it gives a woman deep appreciation for such a man. These things complement each other and lead to mutual fulfillment. But people who have this capacity and potential are unusual, more so later in life.
 

resilient

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The problem with LTR dating women older than 30+.... chances are they've had a divorce already, rode the CC, and/or never self-actualized. They get stuck in their ways and are likely to push back when leadership is called into question. They don't necessarily take the steps to improve themselves because often I see they monkey branch and start the dating process all over without enough opportunity and time to self-examine and improve.

For example, how tidy is her place? Does she pick up after herself? Does she veg on the couch and watch Nefflix for hours or is she outside gardening for a bit while the sun is still out (if she owns her own place)? Does she volunteer to give back to her community? Help senior citizens in need? Homeless? Charity? These are just a list of qualities I look for now in a plate post-divorce myself...

Men must look to themselves to cultivate and grow their leadership roles if they want a healthy compatible LTR partner psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually.

I face this responsibility head-on by looking for opportunities for self-development and leadership training so I can one day steer the ship if I ever get into an LTR again. I lead a large Christian social group in my city and are frequently presented with opportunities to grow. I do my best aside from the career transition to invest in that. Just last night I got approached to attend a weekend retreat to develop more leadership skills with my faith in January which I honorably accepted.

Anyway..... I think frustrated and experienced guys don't have the patience to deal with too many sh!t or compliance tests... more likely to demote her to plate status. LTR chances are reduced. People get more selective and picky as they get older because they dread repeating history with the next LTR.
 

resilient

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And another thing, if either gender is living in abundance from real life social circle (many social spheres), OLD, social media interest...... they're less likely to stick around and work things out with their LTR partner. They're less likely to be open to being "molded".

I find those with fewer prospects in their vision are more likely to stick around and work things out, fewer milleage (especially if they were brought up in a household where monogamy is sacred and respected, more so if they were brought up firmly in the faith).

Those lacking strong spiritual foundational roots are more likely to be influenced by the media, friends, and those they deem are living a fun, free, independent, and outgoing lifestyle not bound by rules, boundaries, or restraints.
 

guru1000

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And another thing, if either gender is living in abundance from real life social circle (many social spheres), OLD, social media interest...... they're less likely to stick around and work things out with their LTR partner. They're less likely to be open to being "molded".
You'd be surprised.

Most top-tier women I've come across are exhausted with the dating scene. Although they are high in demand, the quantity of complementary, quality partners are scarce. Yes, top-tier woman are in scarcity as their standards are high and orbiters as they view them are akin to the 200 lb girl orbiting you.

I find that these type of woman are more likely to conform to expectations, as having already experienced or attracted most men in the market, they have relinquished the "grass is greener" syndrome--accentuating and cementing their desire to secure and surrender to a man of similar caliber (the male unicorn).

For most men on this site, it's important to bury the SoSuave mantra of when Brad Pitt comes, she is history. When a woman has eyes only for you, hypergamy is dead. Herein is when she is most susceptible to surrender to your frame entirely.
 

resilient

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Interesting post, Guru. I suppose then, the onus is on us men to be the Don Juans we should be of paramount caliber.

I probably would be surprised because I'm not used to running into 8-10s regularly or ones who are burnt out on dating.

If we become the best version of ourselves and continually aim higher, we'll become more attractive in their eyes and their orbiters will be diminished. Is this wishful thinking though? :/ I would like to believe a feminine woman would fall in line with my leadership, frame, and open to being lead with respect.

I think I have to prove those leadership qualities to myself consistently before I believe a woman is ready (or interested) in an LTR with me. I feel like I still have miles and an epic journey to go before I decide to settle down again. Probably 3-6 years when I'm an early 40s candidate. ;)
 

guru1000

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Interesting post, Guru. I suppose then, the onus is on us men to be the Don Juans we should be of paramount caliber. If we become the best version of ourselves and continually aim higher, we'll become more attractive in their eyes and their orbiters will be diminished. :D I would like to believe a feminine woman would fall in line with my leadership, frame, and open to being lead with respect.

I think I have to prove those leadership qualities to myself consistently before I believe a woman is ready (or interested) in an LTR with me.
Knowledge in how to control the frame is the most powerful tool a DJ can utilize. Think about Charles Manson for a moment. Not to be confused with my glorifying Manson, but rather Manson understood how to control the frame, to the extent that women committed murder for him.

Was he good-looking or rich? No.

He was a low SMV ex-con but had the foreknowledge to identify the needs of his subjects, and to meet those needs, implicitly. He told the young women he met that they were perfect and beautiful, and that their parents were the problem. He claimed to have a solution. “I never ever developed a sense of who I was and where I was going and what I wanted to do,” Patricia Krenwinkel, who killed for Manson. “I wanted to please. I wanted to feel safe. To feel like someone was going to care for me. I hadn’t felt that from anyone else in my life.”

Granted and although these were not mentally healthy women, does not contradict the premise that when you meet the emotional needs of a woman, she will be susceptible to serve you, and in some cases serve you unconditionally.

Men have to understand one simple concept. Hypergamy is dead to men who serve women's emotional needs fully. Effective leading does not begin so much by directing her to your expectations as opposed to meeting (or having the potential to meet) her emotional needs before directing her to yours. This is a confusing, perhaps disturbing, topic for most here, as SoSuave has been stamped with the adage to meet only your needs, as you are the monument of focus. For dating, this has a elementary place to serve as training wheels to mitigate neediness, but in LTR game, this is not conducive to propitious relations.

When you meet a quality woman, she has specific emotional needs, idiosyncratic to her. Important to distinguish between her "needs" and her "wants." You as a DJ of fluidity need not meet her "wants," but instead meet (or give the appearance of meeting or able to meet) her "needs." When you serve these emotional needs, she will interpret this "rapport" as a "deep connection," "love," or "you're her soul mate."

This concept is stronger glue than any SMV you can exact upon yourself in a LTR. Hence, why guys like Brad Pitt were served with divorce papers.

Identify and meet her emotional needs, and you will create a quality loyal trooper for as long as you want her. The unicorn does not exist because it cannot exist in perfect alignment around expectations that are particular to you--and thus the unicorn cannot exist alone. The unicorn only appears before the man who shapes it as such.
 
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BeExcellent

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You'd be surprised.

Most top-tier women I've come across are exhausted with the dating scene. Although they are high in demand, the quantity of complementary, quality partners are scarce. Yes, top-tier woman are in scarcity as their standards are high and orbiters as they view them are akin to the 200 lb girl orbiting you.

I find that these type of woman are more likely to conform to expectations, as having already experienced or attracted most men in the market, they have relinquished the "grass is greener" syndrome--accentuating and cementing their desire to secure and surrender to a man of similar caliber (the male unicorn).

For most men on this site, it's important to bury the SoSuave mantra of when Brad Pitt comes, she is history. When a woman has eyes only for you, hypergamy is dead. Herein is when she is most susceptible to surrender to your frame entirely.
So true. Being social and dating is great fun, but after a while it's just more meaningful to have someone whom you enjoy getting to know more, and go deeper with and so forth. I'm finding this now. Although I'm getting asked out right and left I'd rather just see the man who I'm most interested in and see where that goes. All the surface stuff gets old, although socializing is always pleasant in a general sense. What gets exhausting about it is the constant pressure of someone else's expectations. And if you are on a date with someone who you can tell likes you, there is always that weight of expectation from the other party.

Expectation exists in relationship too of course but I think it can be managed more successfully under relationship type circumstances as its of a different nature.

If I'm in love with someone I don't care about any man but the man I love. Oh sure I might be flattered by attention and so forth but I'm not about to disrespect the man I've chosen to spend my time with and get to know. My ex husband was never ever jealous of the male attention that came my way during the years we were in the nightclub business. Not when we had A-list stars in the venue, not when the guys in the bands got flirty with me, and not at any other time during our marriage. Why? I was with HIM. Period, end of story. And he knew that and he never worried about it, and frankly it was something I deeply appreciated about him. Jealousy is ugly and he was never a jealous sort.
 
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