Lost frame in a relationship. Not sure what to do

[BackInTheGame78]

No offence, but it sounds like you lost frame a long time ago. Sex is not an event that you "plan" days or weeks in advance. It's not something you have to negotiate or bargain for. And it goes without saying that if you live together and haven't had sex in a while, with a woman who isn't even your wife yet, it's a very bad sign. It seems like she's using sex to control you and things will only get worse in the future, especially if you make the mistake of marrying this woman.

Agree...and listen to her words even before then.

He didn't listen to things he "was told to do". Like he is her child or something that either listens or gets punished.

Yikes.

So this either means OP essentially is a man child that she feels she is constantly having to do things for and doesn't contribute to things that are needed or she simply likes bossing OP around and now feels entitled to do it since it's been going on for so long

Neither of those is good.

 

[Bokanovsky]

^^I'm female but gonna pretend I'm a guy here and say since when do you judge women on what they say? Lol

Things are different when you are in relationship. If a woman is unable or unwilling to communicate her concerns in a direct manner, and instead resorts to acting like a child and blowing up over little things because some bigger, unarticulated issue is bothering her, she is not relationship material, period. If you want to be a in a serious relationship, you have to act like an adult. Relationships are not for children.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Things are different when you are in relationship. If a woman is unable or unwilling to communicate her concerns in a direct manner, and instead resorts to acting like a child and blowing up over little things because some bigger, unarticulated issue is bothering her, she is not relationship material, period. If you want to be a in a serious relationship, you have to act like an adult. Relationships are not for children.

^^I don't disagree which is why I followed with I didn't/don't 100% agree with that statement. It's never black and white, it's nuanced and should be judged on an individual basis.

However in this situation, it seems pretty clear why she got upset IMO.

OP had promised to head right home to have sexual relations as they had not had sex in awhile (he posted this) but he chose instead to jump like a puppy when his mom called, make his mom the priority and go see her. There was nothing wrong, no emergency and he had just seen her the day prior.

That's why his fiancé made the comment "no sex then" because THAT had been the plan until OP changed the plan and made his mom the priority. Which hurt his fiancé hence her initial emotional reaction.

I am not the only poster who believes this:

The problem is you tell her “coming right home“ and then something distracts you.

If you said “My mom fell and needs my help”, she likely would have understood. But to just say “I’m going to see my mom”, she has the right to be upset.

I’m thinking this is a pattern.

Could there be more going on that needs deep diving and interrogation? Of course I don't know their dynamic I base my opinion on what OP posted.

In any event they DID end up having sex when he finally got home so she did NOT withhold sex or otherwise punish him.

She got momentarily upset but appeared to have gotten over it fairly quickly once he arrived home.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

^^I don't disagree which is why I followed with I didn't/don't 100% agree with that statement. It's never black and white, it's nuanced and should be judged on an individual basis.

However in this situation, it seems pretty clear why she got upset IMO.

OP had promised to head right home to have sexual relations as they had not had sex in awhile (he posted this) but he chose instead to jump like a puppy when his mom called, make his mom the priority and go see her. There was nothing wrong, no emergency and he had just seen her the day prior.

That's why his fiancé made the comment "no sex then" because THAT had been the plan until OP changed the plan and made his mom the priority. Which hurt his fiancé hence her initial emotional reaction.

I am not the only poster who believes this:



Could there be more going on that needs deep diving and interrogation? Of course I don't know their dynamic I base my opinion on what OP posted.

In any event they DID end up having sex when he finally got home so she did NOT withhold sex or otherwise punish him.

She got momentarily upset but appeared to have gotten over it fairly quickly once he arrived home.

That's fair too...if she feels OP is constantly making her second to everything and everyone else she has a right to be upset especially if she has brought this up before.

OP probably promised to change but again shows his actions are the same.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Sounds like she's the one who lost the frame.

That kind of language doesn't come from people who feel confident in themselves and their frame.

How do you handle this?

Don't get angry, don't fight. Talk about what happened, calmly and openly.

Let her understand that her vs. your mom isn't an easy choice.

And let her know you're sensitive to her feelings when it feels like you're choosing your mom over her.

But understand that not a lot of women are going to put up with the dude choosing his mom over his lady, in any context.

This is one of the most vicious and ancient battles of human nature. Dude's wife vs. dude's mom.

Even the bible says men "leave their families and cleave to their wives."

 

[Divorced w 3]

Sounds like she's the one who lost the frame.

That kind of language doesn't come from people who feel confident in themselves and their frame.

How do you handle this?

Don't get angry, don't fight. Talk about what happened, calmly and openly.

Let her understand that her vs. your mom isn't an easy choice.

And let her know you're sensitive to her feelings when it feels like you're choosing your mom over her.

But understand that not a lot of women are going to put up with the dude choosing his mom over his lady, in any context.

This is one of the most vicious and ancient battles of human nature. Dude's wife vs. dude's mom.

Even the bible says men "leave their families and cleave to their wives."

I agree he’s got frame. Judging by actions, he got laid. The two most powerful two words in relationship conflict are “you win”. You make your point once, ie ‘my mother needed my help, I’m not going to apologize for going to help my mother’ then say you win, then you clam up, you go get a bowl of ice cream and you start watching something on the television. She won’t know what to do. She’ll bait you a bit, she will storm off somewhere, and eventually come back around and apologize. At that time, you can honestly discuss anything you may have missed on your end. Maybe you’re not being as receptive to her as she needs on important issues - frame can bend, just keep cool and don’t let it break.

 

[Jor-El]

Blow your load,then hit the road!

 

[craider]

"I'm not planning to marry a woman who insults me, my mother, and uses sex as a manipulation tool. Frankly, it sounds like you have a better option in mind too and have been cheating on me. We can date casually moving forward if that's not the case, but be aware that I'll be looking for a good woman to marry and I don't think that's you given how you're behaving."

Then cut her loose +/- some sex if she wants to keep things casual.

 

[Divorced w 3]

"I'm not planning to marry a woman who insults me, my mother, and uses sex as a manipulation tool. Frankly, it sounds like you have a better option in mind too and have been cheating on me. We can date casually moving forward if that's not the case, but be aware that I'll be looking for a good woman to marry and I don't think that's you given how you're behaving."

Then cut her loose +/- some sex if she wants to keep things casual.

Yeah okay

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I agree he’s got frame. Judging by actions, he got laid. The two most powerful two words in relationship conflict are “you win”. You make your point once, ie ‘my mother needed my help, I’m not going to apologize for going to help my mother’ then say you win, then you clam up, you go get a bowl of ice cream and you start watching something on the television. She won’t know what to do. She’ll bait you a bit, she will storm off somewhere, and eventually come back around and apologize. At that time, you can honestly discuss anything you may have missed on your end. Maybe you’re not being as receptive to her as she needs on important issues - frame can bend, just keep cool and don’t let it break.

She seems determined to continue testing that so even if he does she senses it is weakening.

 

[Divorced w 3]

She seems determined to continue testing that so even if he does she senses it is weakening.

It’s hard to tell but, based on what he shared, it sounds like she is doing a lot for him. She’s still fvcking him, so it can’t be that terrible, but I think he’s got to soften up a little. ‘I lost frame’, ‘is this a shyt test?’ - way, way too mechanical. If I had to venture a guess, I’d say he is too rigid.

 

[craider]

I’d say he is too rigid

Too rigid in behavior, not rigid enough in expectations. Needs to be smooth and charming, while not letting himself be openly disrespected.

This relationship is probably cooked.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It’s hard to tell but, based on what he shared, it sounds like she is doing a lot for him. She’s still fvcking him, so it can’t be that terrible, but I think he’s got to soften up a little. ‘I lost frame’, ‘is this a shyt test?’ - way, way too mechanical. If I had to venture a guess, I’d say he is too rigid.

Which also makes it sound like he doesn't do much and potentially is making her view him as a man child rather than a partner.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Which also makes it sound like he doesn't do much and potentially is making her view him as a man child rather than a partner.

I would agree with that.

 

[Gamisch]

"I'm not planning to marry a woman who insults me, my mother, and uses sex as a manipulation tool. Frankly, it sounds like you have a better option in mind too and have been cheating on me. We can date casually moving forward if that's not the case, but be aware that I'll be looking for a good woman to marry and I don't think that's you given how you're behaving."

Then cut her loose +/- some sex if she wants to keep things casual.

Well ....ironically enough I 100% gotta agree with you, you muppet.

 

[craider]

Well ....ironically enough I 100% gotta agree with you, you muppet.

Probably would happen more often if you bothered to read and think critically rather than getting your panties in a bunch every time I disagree with you. But sure, I'm the muppet .

 

[jhonny9546]

Rollo tommasi says

Women break their rules for Alphas, but they make rules for men they instinctively know are Betas. If you're following her rules, you've failed the **** test, confirmed for her you're Beta, and set yourself on a long path to convincing her otherwise. Beta men make rationales for ceasing Frame by convincing themselves that they are “respecting her” by following her rules. But Betas instinctively understand this categorization and default to enter a woman's Frame to prove they have value-added attributes to compensate for their weak Frame.
This is why I've said that the dominant Frame you enter into a relationship with is the one that sets the tone for the whole relationship.

Yet I have noticed that women want to turn the man into someone who loses the frame, and so he will be easier to control in the relationship.

So if you keep the frame, the woman stays attracted, but you lose the ability to stay in an LTR.
She eventually breakup because you're too strong/good and she feel she cannot control you, even tho you're a very good man, she may need that control.

There might be people that also don't notice difference between frames and stubbornness.

Given this, it would also be good to know how you guys spot those man who have quality frame between the people you know. What kind of characteristics those have?