Let's talk about jobs

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Alright guys, so I feel the need to educate some of you fools on why millennials don't work or make as much as people used to 'back in the day'. You all gotta understand that the US economy (to some of you outside the US, it doesn't really apply to you THAT much, but still can due to globalism so even you can listen in) has shifted from an industrialized/manufacturing one to a service-based one. What does that mean? It means you got more jobs like customer service, business-consulting, fast-food, teaching, or business in general. That sort of thing. Basically ass-kissing jobs to some degree, which feeds into the emasculation of men these days. These are the only jobs that are available to us millennials really (entrepreneurship will always be around, but those are based around providing services to some degree too, and only the owner makes money from it. Once the business gets too big, it's time to make it multinational since you won't be able to survive in the US alone anymore, RIP).

You might be thinking that you have a different job that pays well and that they should be able to get one too. Problem is, those jobs are far and few in between now and the only people who get them are those with prior experience or who know about them. Those people tend to be older folks (Gen X typically) and they take up all available spots that make a decent amount. In order to take up that spot when it opens up, you need to know somebody. Nepotism basically. You have to know someone who will get you in. Same thing with any other higher-paying service job too really. There's more of those than manufacturing jobs but they are super hard to get into.
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Now let's get into the juicy part:

Why don't these jobs exist anymore? This is the part that those outside the US might like to listen to.

Once upon a time, 2 men named Mitt Romney and Bill Bain decided to create a company called 'Bain Capital'. What this company did was do all the offshoring that you hear about. Why all the jobs or now in India, China, Mexico, the Malaysia, etc. He isn't the only cause of it because there are other companies similar to that, but I would say a good 85 - 90% of offshoring is because of them. That is how Mitt Romney made his several hundred million-dollar fortune. When he decided to run for president in 2012, he was going to bring a lot of those jobs back and make an even bigger fortune. Unfortunately, he was too intellectually smart and less touchy-feely like Obama was, hence why he lost. He didn't realize that no one was going to read his 160 paged 59-point economic plan, even though it was much better for the US than anything Obama could have ever done. People don't vote with their brain, they vote with their hearts (that's why black people LOVED Bill Clinton even though he locked up more blacks than any other president in history).

Not to mention that the parents of the lost generation (Baby Boomers) never taught their kids anything since they were too old and didn't have the energy to, but that's a topic for a different time.
_______________________________

There's a lot

 

[CMNILS87]

Good luck outsourcing the trades industry. If you want to make money, it’s there, consulting or running your own biz

 

[CMNILS87]

^^This.

I went to college for 2 years before realizing they were selling me a mediocre education at a very high price while promising me one big lie about how I would be rolling in the big bucks after earning their precious college degree.

So, I left college for trade school and took my first job with zero experience as an HVAC helper. I crawled on my belly in attics piecing together duct work for $8/hr.
12 months later I became a lead man for $12/hr. A year after that I moved up to being a technician driving around in a company van for $18/hr. 2 years after that I landed a job running boilers in a chemical plant for $24/hr. 4 years after that I landed a union gig working at power plants as an operator starting at $29/hr. 2 years later I became a lead operator making $46/hr.

Today I work in the control room of a power generating facility making $150K+/yr.

Although I'm legally prohibited from showing actual pictures of where I work now, my work station looks a lot like this:

But the atmosphere of the control room is a lot like this, tropical fish tank included:

After I retire I can go into consulting or training.

Yes, the job I have now requires previous experience, knowing someone and will very rarely ever be found in an ad advertised to the public. But I did get there by starting on my belly, networking with people and "earning my due".

And that is the problem with a lot (not all) millennials. They don't want to pay their dues. They want an $80K/yr. job in an air conditioned environment straight out of college, because the colleges and Universities themselves tell them that is what they can do (the big lie). I have seen an endless string of young millennials TURN DOWN positions that lead directly to where I am right now because they didn't want to get dirty. They didn't want to work hard for a few years.

My internship the first 2 days as a construction management intern was peeling burnt aluminum off s brick wall for 9 hours in 85 degree heat and the next was cleaning up after the sheetrockers.

If you don’t know what a place looks like after the rockers come in, it looks like the apocalypse. I know I’m putting in my dues, you go that extra mile and give a good company a good reputation, it reflects on you even if you’re cleaning up **** after subcontractors. If stuffs cleaned up, people are happy, productivity goes up and all that Jazz.

Most millennials don’t see the long con or the end game 5-10 years from now. They don’t want to start at 35k a year. It has to be 60-70k. But with no skills, how does a company take that risk. I’ve worked **** job after **** job in my 20’s realizing now it’s all about networking. Only way to go is up now.

 

[Dingo]

^^This.

I went to college for 2 years before realizing they were selling me a mediocre education at a very high price while promising me one big lie about how I would be rolling in the big bucks after earning their precious college degree.

So, I left college for trade school and took my first job with zero experience as an HVAC helper. I crawled on my belly in attics piecing together duct work for $8/hr.
12 months later I became a lead man for $12/hr. A year after that I moved up to being a technician driving around in a company van for $18/hr. 2 years after that I landed a job running boilers in a chemical plant for $24/hr. 4 years after that I landed a union gig working at power plants as an operator starting at $29/hr. 2 years later I became a lead operator making $46/hr.

Today I work in the control room of a power generating facility making $150K+/yr.

Although I'm legally prohibited from showing actual pictures of where I work now, my work station looks a lot like this:

But the atmosphere of the control room is a lot like this, tropical fish tank included:

After I retire I can go into consulting or training.

Yes, the job I have now requires previous experience, knowing someone and will very rarely ever be found in an ad advertised to the public. But I did get there by starting on my belly, networking with people and "earning my due".

And that is the problem with a lot (not all) millennials. They don't want to pay their dues. They want an $80K/yr. job in an air conditioned environment straight out of college, because the colleges and Universities themselves tell them that is what they can do (the big lie). I have seen an endless string of young millennials TURN DOWN positions that lead directly to where I am right now because they didn't want to get dirty. They didn't want to work hard for a few years.

Beautiful....

 

[Von]

^^This.

I went to college for 2 years before realizing they were selling me a mediocre education at a very high price while promising me one big lie about how I would be rolling in the big bucks after earning their precious college degree.

So, I left college for trade school and took my first job with zero experience as an HVAC helper. I crawled on my belly in attics piecing together duct work for $8/hr.
12 months later I became a lead man for $12/hr. A year after that I moved up to being a technician driving around in a company van for $18/hr. 2 years after that I landed a job running boilers in a chemical plant for $24/hr. 4 years after that I landed a union gig working at power plants as an operator starting at $29/hr. 2 years later I became a lead operator making $46/hr.

Today I work in the control room of a power generating facility making $150K+/yr.

Although I'm legally prohibited from showing actual pictures of where I work now, my work station looks a lot like this:

But the atmosphere of the control room is a lot like this, tropical fish tank included:

After I retire I can go into consulting or training.

Yes, the job I have now requires previous experience, knowing someone and will very rarely ever be found in an ad advertised to the public. But I did get there by starting on my belly, networking with people and "earning my due".

And that is the problem with a lot (not all) millennials. They don't want to pay their dues. They want an $80K/yr. job in an air conditioned environment straight out of college, because the colleges and Universities themselves tell them that is what they can do (the big lie). I have seen an endless string of young millennials TURN DOWN positions that lead directly to where I am right now because they didn't want to get dirty. They didn't want to work hard for a few years.

I used to be one of these millenials .

Although my degree didnt land a job, my family connections did.

So i joined the family firm.

Now i work 80hours a week, study all night and week-end for... Not much (i did 100k+ for 2 years now).. But i also did the 80 hours a week for 35k. (McDonald paid more)... Here the minimun salary is 12$/hr

I am surrounded by engineers and lawyer and MD... They all work 10 years, 80hours a week... For max 70k.

A Plumber with a 2 year trade school degree, and 2 years expérience is around 70k starting.

So a young Plumber at 20 years old... Starts with 70k and no "university degree". He will likely make more if he turns in a business....

Millenials cant barely use their hands, and the old people who can use their hands are losing them to age and disease... People will need trade people (Plumber) to pick up.

Heck, i've seen Plumber cancel jobs cause they " werent paying enough" lol.

I lovE what i do, i love my family business but i know damn well the finance business is getting harder and harder (revenu diminished, expense go up, robots and AI).

Trade jobs dont get "dirty" much anymore (compared to before) thanks to technology.

I've decided to add Plumber to my client targetting (they with the IT people, engineer, lawyer, doctors).

Cause of the high income potential and the business corporation planning.

Trade people have 2 big disadvantage however... Its their "low éducation and high drinking/spending" ..They tend to think less about the futur than average (like spending all they earn) and they usually only reinvest in real estate. (1 more an issue for a financé guy lol).

It's not rare to see the "newbies from university" asking 100k, management level, 4 weeks vacation straight at the interview (my business owner clients report me)

 

[Spaz]

My take; hiring millennials is a tricky business but it's possible to get good ones.

Even before entertaining the idea of interviewing them, I'll test them by asking them to 1st dig the drains on the company compound, those that didn't hesitate got the interview and most likely the job. Never really cared if anyone got a university diploma , degree or a PHD. Mindset/passion matters, effectiveness can come later.

Those fvckers who can't handle a little dirt deserves to be fvcked. They can moan and cry to their momma like a good little entitled b1tch.

So any millennials reading this and wanting a job; show that you have passion for the job and the rest will fall into place. Don't worry too much. Life is actually really easy.

 

[Dingo]

Millennials need to stop complaining and Harden the **** Up....

Life is What You make of it....

 

[lizardking82]

It is all about connecting, as someone here above said, but I think you can connect even without having to dirty your hands too much. Social media is something a lot of people do not appreciate enough and do not get on the train of a certain social media (nowadays Instagram) quick enough and hard enough. There is huge power in connecting to like minded people through social media and showing them in a non-invasive way what you do and how you handle your own mastery.

While working something as a regular day job as your paralel follow your passion and try to invest on it, don't forget that the 6 or 8 hours a day are not only losing you 6/8 hours of connecting possibilities, they are also tiring you out and running you down for the rest of the day. Until now, I have been working little jobs with photography while I hunt out bigger ones and there are bigger jobs out there.

I do not agree entirely with some members here that you gotta start low or at least in creative arts this is different, meaning when you're a freelancer, word of mouth is quite important as you build up your image and you start working with cheap prices, people think you a cheap and unprofessional artist. When you know the market around you and price you work normally, but maybe a bit lower than the competition just to get into the mix, you do yourself a big favour. It is not just about getting clients, it's about getting high quality clients that are willing to pay what the work costs and not haggle around about a couple of bucks more or less.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

^^This.

I went to college for 2 years before realizing they were selling me a mediocre education at a very high price while promising me one big lie about how I would be rolling in the big bucks after earning their precious college degree.

So, I left college for trade school and took my first job with zero experience as an HVAC helper. I crawled on my belly in attics piecing together duct work for $8/hr.
12 months later I became a lead man for $12/hr. A year after that I moved up to being a technician driving around in a company van for $18/hr. 2 years after that I landed a job running boilers in a chemical plant for $24/hr. 4 years after that I landed a union gig working at power plants as an operator starting at $29/hr. 2 years later I became a lead operator making $46/hr.

Today I work in the control room of a power generating facility making $150K+/yr.

Although I'm legally prohibited from showing actual pictures of where I work now, my work station looks a lot like this:

But the atmosphere of the control room is a lot like this, tropical fish tank included:

After I retire I can go into consulting or training.

Yes, the job I have now requires previous experience, knowing someone and will very rarely ever be found in an ad advertised to the public. But I did get there by starting on my belly, networking with people and "earning my due".

And that is the problem with a lot (not all) millennials. They don't want to pay their dues. They want an $80K/yr. job in an air conditioned environment straight out of college, because the colleges and Universities themselves tell them that is what they can do (the big lie). I have seen an endless string of young millennials TURN DOWN positions that lead directly to where I am right now because they didn't want to get dirty. They didn't want to work hard for a few years.

I remember you told me how you got to where you are. The problem with that is that you also told me how there's only 6,000 jobs like yours in the US. Out of 330,000,000 people. And you still had to know someone who 'got you in' so-to-speak.

 

[marmel75]

I disagree with most of what you said.

There are 2 main reasons people don't get good jobs.

1. They didnt choose a job/industry they are naturally talented at
2. They do not work hard/apply themselves to the degree where they make themselves indispensable to their companies

If you are in a job you are naturally talented at AND work hard/apply yourself you will quickly climb the ladder where you work. These ridiculous reaosns and excuses why people think they cant get a "good job" are basically a self fulfilling prophecy.

Let me tell you a little story. At age 32, I started programming having never written a line of code in my life and having no Computer Science degree. I was always naturally talented with computers ever since I was a little kid however and basically fell in love with programming.

I started treating programming as basically a "second job" in my spare time and read/learned everything i could taking free online classes, coding along with tutorials, going to code challenge sites ans completing lots of those and building a game from scratch by myself. Over the course of the next 8 years I became so good at programming that I was basically equivalent to a mid level developer. At age 40 I finally got hired as a junior developer after hearing "No" many, many times due to no CS degree and no experience. I never allowed that to dissuade me I got pissed off and more determined.

I took a pay cut to take the junior developer job. Why? Because I bet on myself and knew that i would quickly climb the ranks because I was a programmatical badass at this point.

Within 6 months I got another job offer but the place i started at was so impressed with me they offered me a 20K raise to stay. Do you know how hard it is to work somewhere 6 months and be viewed as so indespensable they would offer you a 20K raise to stay? I ended up leaving there anyways because the opportunity was too good to pass up at the new place and a month ago I was offered another position as a high mid level developer...again I was viewed as so indespensable at my company they gave me a large raise to stay...15K with the promise they would adjust it upwards further at the start of the next year. In 1.5 years as a professional programmer I have ended up getting over 35K in raises from where I started out and within 2-3 years i will be a senior developer and likely making 30K more from where I am at now.

I say this not to brag but to show you what can be accomplished if you stop crying and whining about how things are and just decide none of that sh!t matters and YOU are going to make it happen anyway. You work hard and you focus on being the best at what you do. I now know 11 languages, 6 databases and can pretty much do anything I want in programming with enough time and resources.

This crybaby, woe is me attitude people in this country have is the problem more so than anything else. Nobody is going to pay you top dollar for being average. Nobody is going to view you as indispensable when you are average. Nobody is going to promote you for being average.

If a 40 year old guy with no computer science degree can break into the programming industry and get 35K in raises in a year and a half, you can get a good job if you want it badly enough and are willing to do what it takes to get one.

The problem is most people aren't. They only want to do what they want to do, not what it takes. They want to be successful but only if it comes on their terms. It doesn't. They give up when someone tells them no instead of saying "fvck you" and using it to drive them and work harder towards their goal.

I am sick of the people on here crying and whining and having no drive or ambition or mental fortitude to succeed because of themselves and their sh!tty attitude where they blame everyone else for their problems instead of blaming themselves and doing something about it. The young guys who know everything about eveything but really know jack sh!t about jack sh!t.

It is easier than ever to get a good job because people are so ridiculously lazy and entitled these days someone who works hard will be viewed in an entirely different light.

Rant over.

 

[Spaz]

I disagree with most of what you said.

There are 2 main reasons people don't get good jobs.

1. They didnt choose a job/industry they are naturally talented at
2. They do not work hard/apply themselves to the degree where they make themselves indispensable to their companies

If you are in a job you are naturally talented at AND work hard/apply yourself you will quickly climb the ladder where you work. These ridiculous reaosns and excuses why people think they cant get a "good job" are basically a self fulfilling prophecy.

Let me tell you a little story. At age 32, I started programming having never written a line of code in my life and having no Computer Science degree. I was always naturally talented with computers ever since I was a little kid however and basically fell in love with programming.

I started treating programming as basically a "second job" in my spare time and read/learned everything i could taking free online classes, coding along with tutorials, going to code challenge sites ans completing lots of those and building a game from scratch by myself. Over the course of the next 8 years I became so good at programming that I was basically equivalent to a mid level developer. At age 40 I finally got hired as a junior developer after hearing "No" many, many times due to no CS degree and no experience. I never allowed that to dissuade me I got pissed off and more determined.

I took a pay cut to take the junior developer job. Why? Because I bet on myself and knew that i would quickly climb the ranks because I was a programmatical badass at this point.

Within 6 months I got another job offer but the place i started at was so impressed with me they offered me a 20K raise to stay. Do you know how hard it is to work somewhere 6 months and be viewed as so indespensable they would offer you a 20K raise to stay? I ended up leaving there anyways because the opportunity was too good to pass up at the new place and a month ago I was offered another position as a high mid level developer...again I was viewed as so indespensable at my company they gave me a large raise to stay...15K with the promise they would adjust it upwards further at the start of the next year. In 1.5 years as a professional programmer I have ended up getting over 35K in raises from where I started out and within 2-3 years i will be a senior developer and likely making 30K more from where I am at now.

I say this not to brag but to show you what can be accomplished if you stop crying and whining about how things are and just decide none of that sh!t matters and YOU are going to make it happen anyway. You work hard and you focus on being the best at what you do. I now know 11 languages, 6 databases and can pretty much do anything I want in programming with enough time and resources.

This crybaby, woe is me attitude people in this country have is the problem more so than anything else. Nobody is going to pay you top dollar for being average. Nobody is going to view you as indispensable when you are average. Nobody is going to promote you for being average.

If a 40 year old guy with no computer science degree can break into the programming industry and get 35K in raises in a year and a half, you can get a good job if you want it badly enough and are willing to do what it takes to get one.

The problem is most people aren't. They only want to do what they want to do, not what it takes. They want to be successful but only if it comes on their terms. It doesn't. They give up when someone tells them no instead of saying "fvck you" and using it to drive them and work harder towards their goal.

I am sick of the people on here crying and whining and having no drive or ambition or mental fortitude to succeed because of themselves and their sh!tty attitude where they blame everyone else for their problems instead of blaming themselves and doing something about it. The young guys who know everything about eveything but really know jack sh!t about jack sh!t.

It is easier than ever to get a good job because people are so ridiculously lazy and entitled these days someone who works hard will be viewed in an entirely different light.

Rant over.

People might get the wrong idea when the word naturally is thrown around.

I'd say when you 1st started out you naturally knew sh1t abt programming but due to your intense passion for the world of programming you endured the hardships and eventually became effective at it so much so that you are in demand.

Greatness = Passion + Effectiveness

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

They didnt choose a job/industry they are naturally talented at

Okay this is something that bothers me. What if what they are good at is not needed in ANY job? That's the problem. They just never developed the skills necessary to succeed in the jobs available to them. There aren't enough options, is what I am saying. All jobs are just different variations of each other, and of the ones that are not, they are taken up already by people only within a very close niche network.

That's true, but I got there through the trades, starting with no experience, and the people who got me into the company I work for now were the people I made connections with along the way. In fact, one of those people was my trade school instructor who I had run into years later, along with another guy who was an old high school friend of mine. I moved up in the company and got the position I'm in now through other people I had connected with when I first came in. Those people moved into other divisions within the company since then too, and recommended me later on to their supervisors when newer/better opportunities came up and I bid in for them.

Every time I take another step up, I already know somebody who is there.

I can give you and marmel an example of how a lot of it is due just to circumstance. My father came here and worked harder than anyone you'll ever know. Do or die mentality all the time, 24/7 because up until that point, that is how his life was. He worked at a gas station just being abused for most of it while slowly learning the language (he did not know English at all at the time). Now eventually after years of suffering, he was able to learn more and more to manage the store/station on his own and saved up enough money to buy part of it. That led to buying the whole thing in due time and hella hard work. I don't want to go into the specifics of it all due to anonymity purposes, but basically he was able to acquire several more stations.

But here is something that I asked my dad about. There were 2 people he knows, one who owns several hundred stations and had a jobbership license, the other has the same license but only around ~40 gas stations. Now obviously this guy is making a lot of money now, but I asked my dad what he did differently than himself. He said that the other guys came to the US before he did, before government regulations started to become tighter (70s and 80s).

Listen guys, I'm not making any excuses for myself or anything like that. But there are a lot of things that went on that screwed people over. I only know about Bain Capital because one of my dad's friends (also in the gas station business) is only in the business because he lost his job due to Bain Capital however many decades ago. He was a dude who came up with algorithms for companies to know when they would get high traffic or low traffic so that they can adjust how many workers they need (like how there are obviously going to be more employees at Walmart on Black Friday than on a Sunday evening, or that Verizon is obviously going to need more people working on their customer service support if a satellite crashes). He couldn't translate that to anything else and needed to learn something on the fly.

But you see it's that difference that makes millennials suck ass. That man HAD to learn something right away, because reality was going to hit him hard. These younger wimps? Not so much... That still does not account for why he couldn't apply his skills and talents to his new career though. It wasn't his fault really....

 

[marmel75]

People might get the wrong idea when the word naturally is thrown around.

I'd say when you 1st started out you naturally knew sh1t abt programming but due to your intense passion for the world of programming you endured the hardships and eventually became effective at it so much so that you are in demand.

Greatness = Passion + Effectiveness

Yes but I was something of a computer geek ever since I was 7...I was one of the first kids eho had a computer growing up. I was the one eveyone came to when they had problems, I've built all my computers from scratch since I was 25, etc...

It was more of like people who knew me were like "Why the hell dod it take you this long to start doing it??" Because they naturally assumed i would be very good at ot because literally eveything else I did with computers I was very good at. It kinds like I just understand them naturally because my brain works in the same way in a lot of ways.

But make no mistake...I busted my ass working 40-50 hours a week AFTER I worked my normal full time job to get where i am today. Thats what i am saying...anyone could do the same thing to become that good at something they are naturally skilled at.

Like I have so much confidence in myself I believe I can do literally anything i want. If i wanted to become a nuclear engineer I believe i could learn enough in the same amount of time as I did programming to become a really good one. If I wanted to be a physicist or medical researcher or professor or anything i wanted to do i believe I could do it and excel at it.

I believe in myself so strongly that if I was playing someone in basketball 1 on 1, the game was to 21 and i was down 20-0 I would still believe that i would come back and win 21-20 and i wouldn't just believe it I would expect it to happen.

I'm not sure how or why I developed this, ithink in some ways it was nurtured by my parents who told me i would excel at anything I put my mind to and i believed it, or if i was always born with it, but it has become an integral part of why i have always excelled at pretty much every job I've ever had across 5 or 6 different industries...however far and away programming is by far the thing i am most naturally talented at...its like Lebron James could probably have played 3 or 4 sports professionally if he wanted to, he is that athletic but he would likely not be as good at the others as he is in basketball because he is just so naturally talented at it...

same concept...you will always be far better at something you are naturally talented at than something you aren't no matter how hard you work at it.

 

[marmel75]

Okay this is something that bothers me. What if what they are good at is not needed in ANY job? That's the problem. They just never developed the skills necessary to succeed in the jobs available to them. There aren't enough options, is what I am saying. All jobs are just different variations of each other, and of the ones that are not, they are taken up already by people only within a very close niche network.

I can give you and marmel an example of how a lot of it is due just to circumstance. My father came here and worked harder than anyone you'll ever know. Do or die mentality all the time, 24/7 because up until that point, that is how his life was. He worked at a gas station just being abused for most of it while slowly learning the language (he did not know English at all at the time). Now eventually after years of suffering, he was able to learn more and more to manage the store/station on his own and saved up enough money to buy part of it. That led to buying the whole thing in due time and hella hard work. I don't want to go into the specifics of it all due to anonymity purposes, but basically he was able to acquire several more stations.

But here is something that I asked my dad about. There were 2 people he knows, one who owns several hundred stations and had a jobbership license, the other has the same license but only around ~40 gas stations. Now obviously this guy is making a lot of money now, but I asked my dad what he did differently than himself. He said that the other guys came to the US before he did, before government regulations started to become tighter (70s and 80s).

Listen guys, I'm not making any excuses for myself or anything like that. But there are a lot of things that went on that screwed people over. I only know about Bain Capital because one of my dad's friends (also in the gas station business) is only in the business because he lost his job due to Bain Capital however many decades ago. He was a dude who came up with algorithms for companies to know when they would get high traffic or low traffic so that they can adjust how many workers they need (like how there are obviously going to be more employees at Walmart on Black Friday than on a Sunday evening, or that Verizon is obviously going to need more people working on their customer service support if a satellite crashes). He couldn't translate that to anything else and needed to learn something on the fly.

But you see it's that difference that makes millennials suck ass. That man HAD to learn something right away, because reality was going to hit him hard. These younger wimps? Not so much... That still does not account for why he couldn't apply his skills and talents to his new career though. It wasn't his fault really....

Well there is not much more of a niche job industry than programming...so to your point, you go develop the skills then.

Do you think its easy for a 40 year old coming from the retail/sales industry with no professional computer programming experience and no computer science degree to get a job as a programmer?? Especially now as its seen as "the" thing to get a degree in??

Hell no...its freaking really hard..one of the hardest things you could possibly do. But i never let any of that stop me. I accepted the challenge and I did it anyway.

Ill tell you a little secret tho...75% of the developers graduating with a CS degree are garbage. They cant program their way out of a paper bag. And dont get me started with the ones from these countries that are basically "IT factories" like India.

Yeah some are good...the ones who are passionate, have the right kind of mind for it and love it, but many of them are pushed into by their parents...the inside joke is one crappy American programmer is worth 2-3 of them and a talented one is worth 3-5 of them. Its a joke but not far from the truth.

They dont love it, they just do it for the money. Never do anything just for money. You will hate it and by extension yourself. You will also never be able to compete with the people who love it and are passionate about it. No prayer in the world.

 

[Trump]

OK we all agree. ‘Millennials are lazy, they suck, they don’t want to work, they want to get rich quick.’ But WHY do they think like this? I personally think it’s because of the free and easy and entitled sex Hollywood men get in its movies and tv shows. Others may disagree. Yet what is the solution?

This thread reminds me of the Dire Straights song:

‘That ain’t working. That’s the way you do it. Money for Nothing and Chicks for Free.’

 

[marmel75]

OK we all agree. ‘Millennials are lazy, they suck, they don’t want to work, they want to get rich quick.’ But WHY do they think like this? I personally think it’s because of the free and easy and entitled sex Hollywood men get in its movies and tv shows. Others may disagree. Yet what is the solution?

This thread reminds me of the Dire Straights song:

‘That ain’t working. That’s the way you do it. Money for Nothing and Chicks for Free.’

I love that song and video! Dire Straights are the bomb!

 

[Spaz]

Yes but I was something of a computer geek ever since I was 7...I was one of the first kids eho had a computer growing up. I was the one eveyone came to when they had problems, I've built all my computers from scratch since I was 25, etc...

It was more of like people who knew me were like "Why the hell dod it take you this long to start doing it??" Because they naturally assumed i would be very good at ot because literally eveything else I did with computers I was very good at. It kinds like I just understand them naturally because my brain works in the same way in a lot of ways.

But make no mistake...I busted my ass working 40-50 hours a week AFTER I worked my normal full time job to get where i am today. Thats what i am saying...anyone could do the same thing to become that good at something they are naturally skilled at.

Like I have so much confidence in myself I believe I can do literally anything i want. If i wanted to become a nuclear engineer I believe i could learn enough in the same amount of time as I did programming to become a really good one. If I wanted to be a physicist or medical researcher or professor or anything i wanted to do i believe I could do it and excel at it.

I believe in myself so strongly that if I was playing someone in basketball 1 on 1, the game was to 21 and i was down 20-0 I would still believe that i would come back and win 21-20 and i wouldn't just believe it I would expect it to happen.

I'm not sure how or why I developed this, ithink in some ways it was nurtured by my parents who told me i would excel at anything I put my mind to and i believed it, or if i was always born with it, but it has become an integral part of why i have always excelled at pretty much every job I've ever had across 5 or 6 different industries...however far and away programming is by far the thing i am most naturally talented at...its like Lebron James could probably have played 3 or 4 sports professionally if he wanted to, he is that athletic but he would likely not be as good at the others as he is in basketball because he is just so naturally talented at it...

same concept...you will always be far better at something you are naturally talented at than something you aren't no matter how hard you work at it.

Bet it was lotus 123 and screen was green.

Easy to build a computer, plug and play. But at the beginning lots of trail and error too, times passes and got better. I went through that phase too. And yeah the Internet was fun back then, dialing in etc.

Studied C+, proceeded to C++ and all self thought. Ain't hard when you have the passion.

I'm saying this because, I used to think like you do and it was wrong, way wrong, you'll find that out soon enough.

Along the way ive learned this; You can be highly effective (naturally inclined or otherwise) but when you lose your passion/drive you'll end up a lame duck.

So before anything else, passion is what drives your inclination towards anything and everything.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Well there is not much more of a niche job industry than programming...so to your point, you go develop the skills then.

Do you think its easy for a 40 year old coming from the retail/sales industry with no professional computer programming experience and no computer science degree to get a job as a programmer?? Especially now as its seen as "the" thing to get a degree in??

Hell no...its freaking really hard..one of the hardest things you could possibly do. But i never let any of that stop me. I accepted the challenge and I did it anyway.

Ill tell you a little secret tho...75% of the developers graduating with a CS degree are garbage. They cant program their way out of a paper bag. And dont get me started with the ones from these countries that are basically "IT factories" like India.

Yeah some are good...the ones who are passionate, have the right kind of mind for it and love it, but many of them are pushed into by their parents...the inside joke is one crappy American programmer is worth 2-3 of them and a talented one is worth 3-5 of them. Its a joke but not far from the truth.

They dont love it, they just do it for the money. Never do anything just for money. You will hate it and by extension yourself. You will also never be able to compete with the people who love it and are passionate about it. No prayer in the world.

Because people who are actually good at it understand that learning each programming ‘language’ is like learning an ACTUAL language. And some people are naturally more inclined to learn languages than others.

But that’s besides the point. Work hard for a job, earn it, be passionate about it, etc. I get that. But just because you work hard for a position doesn’t mean you’ll get it if that position doesn’t even exist.

Another thing you have to remember is that many many people, myself included, don’t have any passions that can be applied to the a job or occupation. Well to be honest, I do have a natural inclination for higher-level crookedness, but unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps), I still do have a strong moral sense that would stop me from doing those things, which means I can’t apply them to any job set unless I’m in charge of a huge corporation. And you can’t jump from nothing straight to the top either. It’s just how things are.