Leave Sosuave!

[tmpgstx]

The bottom line is if you're confident in yourself and your abilities as a person, the women will follow and the right girls.

Women want someone on their level, or the male equivalent of themselves in most instances. For example, an educated girl wants an educated guy etc. Make sense? It should. What do you want in a girl? Are you a goal oriented person? Are you highly educated? Are you good at everything you do? If you answered yes, then it is likely you want a girl much the same. Right?

The other angle to it is there has to be some natural physical attraction to you, wether it be your face, the way you say something pulls her heart strings etc. If you couple the above with what was just stated in terms of some natural attraction in this paragraph, you have recipe for success in terms of worthwhile LTR (that could lead to marriage).

Pvssy realizes, even at a young age, what this is all about. I'm not old or anything but think some of the older guys here would have to agree (like PRL, Roland Tommasi etc.). It's this experience that you get through triial and error where you realize this. It's about improving yourself to the point where your insecurities are minor, and you're comfortable and confident in yourself and whatever you do.

 

[MindOverMatter]

And AFC, is not a guy who does not know how to screw women, there are a lot of AFCS who run around earth, screwing women all day. Matter-of-fact, most AFCS you meet, will always have a girlfriend, and some, not all, but some are even considered ladies men! How about that!

There are AFCs who can hook up, get laid either through looks or pure luck. However, their lack of game (or should I say dating experiance) becomes apparrent and the girl leaves them soon enough. While the AFC may have a girlfriend when you meet him, soon she will be gone.

Look at the board itself. Most people that come here for advice are in this boat. They've had a girlfriend, she left them, they want advice on how to get her back. They've had a girlfriend, but they're still AFCs and this site deprograms them and teaches them how to think with a proper attitude.

Like I said, some of the social skills that are taught on this website and others like it are learned by naturals at a young age through EXPERIANCE. By the time they are in their 20s, everything people on sosuave consider a "technique" is a part of their personality that they use subconciously. To an AFC however, who has little understand of such social skills, they seem like techniques.

The AFC sees the natural teasing and making fun of the girl. The AFC says "he is using c&f!". Well yes, he is right. The natural is using C&F. Does he know that he is using C&F? No, likely he doesn't know what C&F is, he doesn't use the technique, it's an internal part of his personality.

The AFC sees the natural put the girl's ego down with a witty comment. The AFC says "the natural just used a neg-hit". Did he? The natural doesn't know what neg-hits are. However, he still used one. How??? Because neg-hit is nothing but a common play on words that puts down a girl. The natural has been making fun of girls like this since he was 13, to him it's not a technique, it's a part of his personality.

Everything the natural does is subconcious and dynamic.

Everything the AFC does is planned out, scripted, and concious.

So you bring an AFC to this website. He reads all the material, starts using it. At first he will have little luck with it, because everytime he uses C&F or neg-hits or any of that sh!t, he will do it conciously.

That's what Jake Steed talks about. He says that AFCs have all these techniques they memorize and use treating women as if they are computers, and he is right. They are conciously trying to use the techniques the natural uses subconciously.

As a result, they come off as fake, and forced. Now if the AFC keeps trying, keeps approaching, keeps talking to girls, etc, eventually, he stops using these techniques. Or at least he thinks he does. He still uses them, only now they are a part of his personality and always come off naturally. When he teases the girl, he doesn't see it as being C&F anymore, he just sees it as him teasing her. When he puts a girl down, he doesn't see it as a neg-hit anymore, he just knows she was being a b!tch and that he put her in her place.

It's only a technique when the person is a total AFC/beginner and is first starting to use / absorb these tips with his mind. After a while, they become a part of his personality, and he'll use them without even being aware of it.

With enough enough experiance, any AFC can develop into a natural.

 

[Bradshaw]

This is very true. I think 'naturals' get too much credit. What they do is learned. All human interaction is learned.

Learning through this website (& others) is explicitly learning social skills.

“Naturals’ perhaps associated with the 'in' crowd in high school or had a good male role model who was skilled with women. They learned to be skilled with women implicitly.

Either way, skill with women is acquired through experience and learning.

 

[I-am-someone]

Hmm... I totally agree

Leave SoSuave... I did quite a while back... I haven't even been actively pursuing women for months, but whenever I'm in a group I can get most women there to fall for me.
I actually have to watch out not to do it now, I somehow got one of my best friend's date to fall for me on his birthday, and I wasn't even trying!
The more I pushed, the more she came back... That is one annoying trait women tend to have .

 

[frivolousz21]

isnt the bible the same as the much larger religous one.

same purpose?

do you follows the holy bible PE? word for word?


i doubt it

 

[skeeloo]

yeah and this site doesnt say what to do when girls hit on you. you all assume that anyone that posts here is an afc.

 

[PVSSY-EATER]

MindOverMatter, once again, I see and understand, all about being a natural in using the techniques, yes, you are correct my friend, after a while, the techniques become apart of you, you are naturally being ****y and funny, a challenge. Basically, the techniques are no longer techniques, just apart of your personality. I am not telling ANYBODY, how to be or how their personality SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE, that is what YOU guys are telling them. If they are quiet or laid back, or real serious, they should be ****y and funny, etc, what I am trying to say, is that the technique MindOverMatter, you listening to me, the technique that is now very natural in your personality, is not the REASON BEHIND THE ATTRACTION, so, so, so....................if you dont want to CHANGE your personality to be a ****y funny or challenge guy, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO. You can be yourself. Really. IN all honesty. Because there was no technique or no personality that you had that created the attraction. You and her CONNECTED, and still CONNECTS, on that level, that is WHY MindOverMatter, that girl in your little picture is licking your little body, that is WHY, MIndOverMatter, guys are successful with women, you CONNECT, not that you USED or WON with a technique that you made natural........you could have kept your old personality, that was the REALLLLLLLL you.

 

[Faded Image]

bumb!

 

[diablo]

Most people on this board only get their perspective on seduction out of Sosuave. While I think this site is ok and I myself have been surfing this site some time ago, coming back I have to say that the stuff on this site is too basic. If you only visit this site you will stagnate sooner or later. You will get to a point where you still have lots of questions but no answers.

The whole point of this site is to get people out in the field - to give them the motivation and skills they need to successfully manage in today's world of seduction. If someone is stagnating, it's because they've chosen to sit on a computer rather than approach women - same is true with any other site (or book, for that matter).

I'm not telling you to leave this site completely, just to get other perspectives and ideas from other people.

This being the internet, I'm certain the vast majority of people have several other seduction sites bookmarked.

I see this endless" nice guy" debate is still going on here.
People that stuff is OLD!

Just because something is old doesn't mean that it isn't relevant. There are still "nice guys", "AFCs", and many other types of guys out there. Generally when they come here they are coming to terms with this and working to overcome their handicap. I suppose that it's beneficial for them to discuss it.

All of this "The Commandments", "How to become a Don Juan", "be a Man" is too basic and sometimes misleading. The positive thing you will get from this posts is a temporary confidence boost or some slight inner game improvement.

I'm not sure what you mean by "too basic". Perhaps charts, diagrams, complex mathematical models filled with statistics and market surveys would be more on your level? Sure, SoSuave doesn't generate what you should say at each stage in a conversation (i.e. "she says that she likes toast, you must ask her if she likes it lightly toasted or blackened") - then again, the site shouldn't have to.

Also this whole "Don Juan"and "Don Juan Bible"concepts are BS. I mean, we aren't members of a sect or the jedi knights of seduction, are we? We are just common people trying to improve ourselves.

The DJB worked for me - and I have hundreds of pictures to prove this claim... so I can't agree that it's BS. As for the notion you have that in order to want to improve yourself you must be "in a sect" or "in the jedi knights", grow up. Take a look at how successful self-help books are in today's culture... hell, we don't even charge for the DJB (which is more than many other sites can say marketing "learn how to pick up women" guides).

Stop reading things like "The 3 second rule", "Be alpha" or "Is smiling good?". That stuff doesn't matter a flying fvck!

It's my belief that you can't read enough. I like to read to improve myself - everything I read (this site included) I take with a grain of salt. I think that everybody should read everything related to the topic that interests them and make their own judgements and decisions based on their interpretations of that reading.

The way you use C&F in this site (and in DYD) is wrong. Haven't you wondered why it doesn't work or why it only works on lower quality sluts? Well, quite simple! It presuposes lower value!

While it is true that many people on here don't know how to use C&F correctly, I used it long before I first heard the term "****y & funny" or came to this site... with huge success. I'd like to hear how it "presupposes lower value". By the way, you might want to learn the meanings of words before you use them. "presupposes - to believe or suppose in advance". It makes no sense in the context it's used in.

You guys should stop mentally masturbating yourself with the info some people give here and learn more about the concepts of value and attraction, the concept of natural game, of being normal and cool, the concept of screening and qualifying, how to connect with chicks, how to build healthy LTRs or simply how to use your true personality to be successful without having to fake your personality ...

You're right. I think that you'll find interesting articles on all of the information you listed contained in the DJB. It might do you good to read it; here's the link. http://www.jbspencer.com/djb

"Wait at least 3 days to call" Why!?If you are really a cool guy it doesn't really matter when you call as long as you don't call 3 times a day. This neediness/supplication issue is only for newbies and it shouldn't be of an issue for the guys that have been in the seduction community for a few weeks.

If you'd been around on the forum and paid attention you'd realize that nobody of consequence advocates "waiting 3 days to call". There's no set time for you to call - in fact, I've closed many threads in which people ask "HOW LONG SHOULD I WAIT TO CALL HER?!" Educate yourself, then form an opinion.

I encourage you to check the mASF forums every now and then. There you will find lots of guys with many different perspectives.

Like I said earlier, I'm sure that since this is the internet many people already have "mASF" and other seduction sites bookmarked.

When I was ONLY in this site I could hardly mantain my GF, I was the typical "****y AFC"(=DJ) and my game was poor.

Sounds like a personal issue. I'm sure that I'm not the only one here who's not having this problem.

 

[ketostix]

Originally posted by PVSSY-EATER
I am not telling ANYBODY, how to be or how their personality SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE, that is what YOU guys are telling them. If they are quiet or laid back, or real serious, they should be ****y and funny, etc, what I am trying to say, is that the technique MindOverMatter, you listening to me, the technique that is now very natural in your personality, is not the REASON BEHIND THE ATTRACTION, so, so, so....................if you dont want to CHANGE your personality to be a ****y funny or challenge guy, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO. You can be yourself. Really. IN all honesty. Because there was no technique or no personality that you had that created the attraction. You and her CONNECTED, and still CONNECTS, on that level,

MindOverMatter, you listening to me, the technique that is now very natural in your personality, is not the REASON BEHIND THE ATTRACTION, so, so, so....................

So according to you, P-E, the reason for her attraction to the guy in question is because "he stared into her eyes and got aroused for her", right? So according to you all we need to do is just stare into the HB eyes and go into sexual state and because as you say chicks are "easy, easy, easy" we'll without fail reach home base? I mean c'mon everything a guy does till the conclusion of the lay can make or break the seduction.

if you dont want to CHANGE your personality to be a ****y funny or challenge guy, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO. You can be yourself. Really. IN all honesty. Because there was no technique or no personality that you had that created the attraction. You and her CONNECTED, and still CONNECTS, on that level

Well thanks P-E for the great revelation that all the guys that never had the success they wanted with women just never tried being themselves.

Anyway, P-E you really should re-read your post and see how over-simplified and useless what you're saying is. MoM and few others have posed some really good questions to you that you've dodged, and instead you only responded with more of your over-simplified and ill-informed "wisdom". It's really annoying for you to keep making these statements when most people know better.

 

[I-am-someone]

Bleh, I shouldn't be posting here... I left!
Anyway, this board just seems to go in endless circles. The same subjects are discussed, over and over again.
Sure, you can learn a lot from reading stuff on here for a while... but if you stay here (to learn) for too long, you should definitely KNOW you're not going in the right direction.


Learn and then put into practice or all that time spent learning is wasted!


Real-life practice is 100,000 times as valuable as anything you read on here, because it involves you, and only you. All the learning you do in real-life is custom-made for you, to improve YOU.


I know someone that made a decision to change his life radically after he got kicked out of his parents house and lost his job the very same day, three months ago. He never went to a board like this, he never watched hundreds of hours of tape to improve himself, he just DID IT. He told me he got up every morning, thinking about how he was going to prove his parents and his employer that he was worth a damn, instead of whining about how messed up his life was. He made a decision to improve his life himself. He then worked a lot harder on school, he worked to get a better job, and worked on his life in general, including his lovelife which was in fact one of his smaller problems, just like with most of you. He hardly had any friends before he started, and the only friends he did have were junkies.
He now has a reasonable pay, he graduated, he's got a huge amount of friends and a very nice girl. It's almost like he never was the person he was before.
ALL that happened, because people gave him a hard time and he finally made the decision to go and prove all those people wrong.

I've known this guy for a pretty long time, and if you know where this guy came from you'd know it's actually a miracle that he is where he is now. But it all came down to that decision.

You could make that decision as well, and you damn well should.
Prove everybody around you that you can be better than they think you can be. Prove your parents, prove your teachers, prove your friends. Don't do it for me, but do it for yourself. If you consider yourself worth a damn, you should prove it.

 

[djbr]

MindOverMatter explained well the learning curves that AFCs should experiment.

I could clearly see the error of my ways. I think I speak together with many people on this site: we tend to jump the "technique" part and try to force everything to come naturally, something that wasn't there in the first place.

We MUST PASS through the learning phase. Yeah, the unnatural, technique-driven, fake attitude one. Full of failures. Everyone that wants to reach the next level must!

Great post MindOverMatter! Enlightening for those who want to put their game together again! (I'm included! )

For us all, Wannabe-DJs stuck in chumphood, let's go back to the basics!! Eye contact, taking action, asking for the number, Anti-Dump style! Or whatever YOU choose... until we develop our own game. Notice the world DEVELOP here?

I wish the best to all of us!

 

[djbr]

Sometimes the message on this site gets confusing. We get a hell bunch of posts talking about techniques, then the uber-DJs say techniques sucks a dyck and we must go with our gut.

Problem arises. The newbie gets confused, thinking he can jump the technique part and go straight with the gut. We all know that's not what happens.

So we see a lot of posts from newbies trying to give advice. They sure have a take on the game, in the theory realm. Besides, writing about anything helps the writer to get a deeper understanding about the issue he's talking about, as he have to put his ideas together. But we must know that's not enough. We MUST practice. And in this practice, techniques come handy, because if he goes with the flow, he surely will turn AFC mode on full!

This post is bible material for this reason. Also, Survivor posted about this in the past too (here) .

No information about this "learning process" is found on the bible. This ought to be corrected. For me, MindOverMatter breakdown of the issue is a great one.

 

[Mr.Style]

Originally posted by ketostix

Anyway, P-E you really should re-read your post and see how over-simplified and useless what you're saying is. MoM and few others have posed some really good questions to you that you've dodged, and instead you only responded with more of your over-simplified and ill-informed "wisdom". It's really annoying for you to keep making these statements when most people know better.

Agreed. I mean, look at what he posted on the thread entitled "DJ Bootcamp Week 1( Summer 2005)" :

Originally posted by Pvssy Eater HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Oh man, oh man. You know what, and I am really, am I the only guy here who sees women as just being simple, and not so complex as to start a training camp to get laid, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, you guys are being fooled. But hey, DO YO BOOT CAMP BOY, YOU GO BOY!!

HAAAAAA

Am I the only one who thinks this is bang out of order? These guys are trying to better themselves and he's shooting them down...

 

[Visceral]

I wonder where this gap between theory and practice comes from?

 

[The Bartender]

Originally posted by dj_spain
Most people on this board only get their perspective on seduction out of Sosuave. While I think this site is ok and I myself have been surfing this site some time ago, coming back I have to say that the stuff on this site is too basic. If you only visit this site you will stagnate sooner or later. You will get to a point where you still have lots of questions but no answers. I'm not telling you to leave this site completely, just to get other perspectives and ideas from other people.
I see this endless" nice guy" debate is still going on here.
People that stuff is OLD!
All of this "The Commandments", "How to become a Don Juan", "be a Man" is too basic and sometimes misleading. The positive thing you will get from this posts is a temporary confidence boost or some slight inner game improvement.
Also this whole "Don Juan"and "Don Juan Bible"concepts are BS. I mean, we aren't members of a sect or the jedi knights of seduction, are we? We are just common people trying to improve ourselves.
Stop reading things like "The 3 second rule", "Be alpha" or "Is smiling good?". That stuff doesn't matter a flying fvck!
The way you use C&F in this site (and in DYD) is wrong. Haven't you wondered why it doesn't work or why it only works on lower quality sluts? Well, quite simple! It presuposes lower value!
You guys should stop mentally masturbating yourself with the info some people give here and learn more about the concepts of value and attraction, the concept of natural game, of being normal and cool, the concept of screening and qualifying, how to connect with chicks, how to build healthy LTRs or simply how to use your true personality to be successful without having to fake your personality with all the canned material that you can find on this site. "The best C&F responses", "How to be a challenge" HAHAHAHA! Do you think that by faking your interest and acting all desinterested you will get laid? WTF! Why do you have to ACT to demonstrate value?Because you are a LOSER?!Why don't you use a more direct game where you just assume higher value and are congruent with your intentions and with your true personality?
"Wait at least 3 days to call" Why!?If you are really a cool guy it doesn't really matter when you call as long as you don't call 3 times a day. This neediness/supplication issue is only for newbies and it shouldn't be of an issue for the guys that have been in the seduction community for a few weeks. Furthermore you guys are afraid of the girls thinking that you are AFCs and thus you avoid all kinds of behaviours that could show AFCness, so that you end up being perceived as players and fvck it all up 10 times more! A guy that has some basic skills solved and has developed a cool personality will NEVER be perceived as an AFC anyway.
I encourage you to check the mASF forums every now and then. There you will find lots of guys with many different perspectives.
My favourite poster there is called Woodhaven, I highly advice you to read his whole archive.
When I was ONLY in this site I could hardly mantain my GF, I was the typical "****y AFC"(=DJ) and my game was poor. Now, a few months later, after reading this guys posts my game has improved 10x and I now have multiple LTRs, and all of this being myself, without having to fake my personality. I'm a happier person today.
Sorry if some people got offended with this post. I'm not flaming Sosuave I'm just trying to help the guys of this site that have questions but no answers.

I dont even want to read your 1000000 word rant about this. IF YOU CANT HANDLE THIS SITE YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO LEAVE and SHUT UP!

 

[CLOONEY]

The thing to this site is simply remembering the basics, and then finding your own way of going about doing it! Its quiet simple, I dont think I can learn anything else from theory, but I am still learning from practice! Not really with the pick-ups anymore, more with having long lasting relationships and learning what kind of girls I really want to be with in the long-term.

However, I still come here (mainly to discuss boxing and other threads not relating to woman), and sometimes might drop in to give advice.

As far as fast seduction techniques etc, I have read those, however I beleive they are absolute bullsh*t!

Finding a balance of confidence, funny, ****y, nice (YES you can actually be nice to girls), shy, quiet, charismatic, making them qualify themselves, being hot then cold, kino, neg-hits, giving them pleasure in the bedroom (yes I have read a book on this, and it helped immensly), is what its all about. There are no special lines, or techniques, just a good balance of the whole lot of these things. For any of you who have had numerous experiences with LTRs and woman will understand what I mean.

What a rant! Thats all my thoughts for the moment.

 

[dj_spain]

Re: Re: Leave Sosuave!

Originally posted by The Bartender
I dont even want to read your 1000000 word rant about this. IF YOU CANT HANDLE THIS SITE YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO LEAVE and SHUT UP!

Yes, I did. And therefore I'm much more successful now.
This site is good for the lower half of the learning curve, but when you are at the top half, then this site does no good for you.
Sosuave deals very well with supplication and neediness issues, but as I said if you are a little bit advanced reading the kind of advice given in this site will do only harm for you, even the basics , because they are only good for newbies.

 

[The Bartender]

Re: Re: Re: Leave Sosuave!

Originally posted by dj_spain
Yes, I did. And therefore I'm much more successful now.
This site is good for the lower half of the learning curve, but when you are at the top half, then this site does no good for you.
Sosuave deals very well with supplication and neediness issues, but as I said if you are a little bit advanced reading the kind of advice given in this site will do only harm for you, even the basics , because they are only good for newbies.

I will agree that much of the advice in the forums is basic. But thats usually what ppl are seeking from this site. Honestly, if you have the basics down...good for you, and help others with them on here. I rarely ask for advice, usually give it.