Las Vegas Shooting Mass-Murder and Concert targeting

[BeExcellent]

Banning guns isn't the solution. You think the bad guys aren't going to be able to get guns on the black market? That's why they are bad guys. They don't follow the law anyhow.

You only hear about how guns are used to do crimes. You don't hear about how guns protect people from criminals (say in an armed robbery in a home, or from a grizzly bear or rattlesnake or rabid animal). News outlets themselves have an agenda. The 80 year old little old lady who shoots 2 intruders that break into her home in the middle of the night (actual case in TX when I was in college) never gets indicted by a grand jury, and this type of story does not fit the narrative that liberal media outlets are pedaling. So those types of stories never make the news. They don't support the media's bias or narrative.

Nobody thought anyone would ever fly commercial jets into skyscrapers either, and that was pulled off rather successfully from the bad guys' perspective. @Bible_Belt is absolutely correct about the element of surprise being paramount in pulling off a high profile crime.

The second amendment was put in place for very good reason. If anything America ought to bring back the draft and require males to serve in the military (thereby getting trained on the use of firearms and perhaps getting some of the punk thugs OFF the streets). The Swiss require all men to serve a stint in the army, and the Swiss issue rifles to each man that serves. The Swiss have high gun ownership and the conscripted military service means all men in that country are trained in use of rifle and pistol. The have relatively low gun violence.

Mexico is presently in a heated debate about guns (which you also are unlikely to hear on the news.). Private gun ownership is very low even though its legal, but Mexico is by far the country with the highest rate of gun violence, especially homicides (thank you drug cartels). People there want better access to private gun ownership to be able to better privately defend themselves.

Governments in every country on this planet ARE ALL corrupt to one degree or another. Private gun ownership serves as a deterrent to the government and the military just installing martial law and that's that.

 

[Von]

That is a good point that a bomb would have killed a lot more people. Tim McVeigh's u-haul blowing up in a 20,000 person crowd would have killed thousands. That bomb had two ingredients - diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate, a very common fertilizer. Every corn farmer in America could be a mad bomber if they wanted to be.

The oklahoma bombing... fertilizer... 1 little truck blew up the entire building.

If you in good in chemistry and look at the internet... you can make a bomb of anything

In Boston, they were cookers full of metal.

There is more weapons and things that can kill you in a kitchen than anywhere.... Just a cooking knife can be deadly

Heck, in martial arts we were training to use pencil and pen lol.

The main issue is that sure people kill people... but you have mentally ill people or people going crazies having an easy and cheap access to weapons that increase your killing capacity exponentially. You can't stop a bullet coming at you however you can deflect a knife wielder like they did in London on the street in the bar area during a soccer game (lol those terrorists learned what it is to attack hooligans lol)...

Today, I could feel like doing something bad... go to the usa, buy a gun for what 300$.... and bang bang.

In Canada the same gun would cost 30 000$... can't afford that so I am gonna go home and drink beer lol.

Most suicide are done by using a gun too.

The concept of if everyone is armed nothing will happen.... its valid... but has yet to been applied or working... Why? The people attack you are actually looking to die.... they seek a ''death by police type of suicide''... They shoot first and use the element of surprise

The USA governement military alone provide for around 7 millions jobs and is the main employer in many villages... we can say the governement is the ''greatest killer of all'' but which smart governement would use weapons against their own people? Taxes are way much more attractive. It wouldn't be a good idea to have your tax payer shooted by your own weapons lol

I agree with BE on many aspects... except all should have guns.

However, indeed where you have people educated and trained in the way of guns... you'll have more responsible persons and less accident

In the USA, its more like a buy a gun get free ammo and have fun type of mode.

I'll add a story about my friends in the Canadian army who served in Afghanistan and Irak (yes Canadian soldiers serves in Iraq under certains covers... US-CAN exchange accord where Canadian soldiers can join the USA army for ''specific field experience'')... The US Navy Seal always wanted American soldiers for backup because Canadians were more mature and efficient (we are more trained than the average infantry american soldiers too)... and Canadian soldiers used to complaint about having American backup because Americans would kinda shoot in all directions (you have 18 years old kids who never left their 300 people village... what you expect)

Culture plays a big role. Switzerland is a great example of mixing GunLove, Freedom, Discipline.

 

[speed dawg]

I'll add a story about my friends in the Canadian army who served in Afghanistan and Irak (yes Canadian soldiers serves in Iraq under certains covers... US-CAN exchange accord where Canadian soldiers can join the USA army for ''specific field experience'')... The US Navy Seal always wanted American soldiers for backup because Canadians were more mature and efficient (we are more trained than the average infantry american soldiers too)... and Canadian soldiers used to complaint about having American backup because Americans would kinda shoot in all directions (you have 18 years old kids who never left their 300 people village... what you expect)

Serious question.....are you on meth?

 

[speed dawg]

I'll just go ahead and throw this out there. I don't really believe in widespread mental illness. It certainly affects some, but it's more of a physical imbalance, and not nearly as prevalent as the left agenda would have you think.

Most crimes in general are done out of jealousy.....somebody has something somebody else wants and they know they'll never get it on their own. I realize this reality. This is why I don't flaunt the good things I have. I don't drive new cars. I don't wear jewelry or the newest clothes. #1 I don't need those things, and #2 I don't want to give jealous haters any reason to hate me and want what I have.

But sh*t, in the end, if you are happy, that's enough to enrage many people who are not content with their lives.

 

[Von]

I'll just go ahead and throw this out there. I don't really believe in widespread mental illness. It certainly affects some, but it's more of a physical imbalance, and not nearly as prevalent as the left agenda would have you think.

Most crimes in general are done out of jealousy.....somebody has something somebody else wants and they know they'll never get it on their own. I realize this reality. This is why I don't flaunt the good things I have. I don't drive new cars. I don't wear jewelry or the newest clothes. #1 I don't need those things, and #2 I don't want to give jealous haters any reason to hate me and want what I have.

But sh*t, in the end, if you are happy, that's enough to enrage many people who are not content with their lives.

Serious question.....are you on meth?

But yeah, that's why rich people never show their money.... people get jealous easily... might lead to desperation which lead to ''suicidal tendencies''... have you ever noticed that hijabi women are all big? Why? And that women who werent hijabi started after adult hood to wear the hijab are all ''ugly''? They don't want the physical competition and they find a cultural exit.

Anyway, check the canadian infantry military basic requirement... it's the qualification requirement for the Navy Seal program

Canadian soldiers wins alot of competitions in all field... it's said we even have the best special forces in the world. We a all you can (jack of all trade) do army since we so few (30 000 for the 2nd biggest country in the world, which is 80% unhabitable) while the US army is more a mass everyone has their own job army.

Check it out... than you might discover who's really on meth

 

[sazc]

My friend Chris and his brother were at the show. His brother is the guy in the wheelchair, white hat, being pushed by a female, pic from the NY post that other media outlets have snapped up.

After they got out they took refuge in Hooters

Mandalay Bay is locked down for the investigation so they are staying to the Luxor for $30 a night, TY Luxor.

Crazy sh1t

 

[Julian]

The right to carry concealed weapon in the US is just plain stupidity and the reason you guys cops kill so many people.

But this is not what we're talking about at all here...
this was an illegal, automatic weapon. Law or not, this would have happened anyways.

People are just losing their mind no idea why.. oh wait... single mom raised society of pu$$ies? who knows

hmmmm

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

In my mind I could care less why it's happening. Probably has SOMETHING to do with a country that was built and sustained on violence. We glorify and celebrate violence then claim to be shocked and appalled when mass shootings occur--and they're occuring on a regular basis now.

I'd like to see accountability shifted to the gun mfrs. Make them accountable and make them pay every time one of their death machines are used to hurt and kill. Guns and a highly dysfuntional society like the USA are proving to be a bad mix.

It has the potential to rip the country apart. As more violence occurs, the Right will become more entrenched in their right to bear arms. What a mess.

The only kind of debate that might go anywhere is a historical one. Back in revolutionary 18th century New England, it was required that all should bear arms in order to defeat the colonial power. But the country moved on, and so should the constitution... it is not written in stone. Did the Roosevelts [both Teddy and Franklin] bother about the Constitution when making America great? No, their governments did their jobs in both developing the US and regulating Big Business. An industrialized mass society called for different measures to an agrarian one.

 

[Von]

In the end, he was a retire living a modest life in a small and quiet village, he was a multi-millionnaire who liked to gamble and according to his brother was well-known in the Las Vegas scene.

His house was full of guns, his wife-girlfriend was reported to be in Japan

He has 3 brothers, they were raised by a single home mother... their father was a known bank robber

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting.html

I had a friend on the scene too... safe

To Christopher Columbus... wasn't your post the entire reason of the Civil War? Agrarian South vs Industrial North while expanding West and fighting Canadians + Native

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

While there will be people screaming bloody murder for gun control, there is a very effective free market solution to this, if the government allows it.

However, it does require that people stop believing in the governments ability to protect them from harm wherever they go.

As @Bible_Belt mentioned, hotels anywhere near public areas will now screen for guns/bullets. Since it's their private property, they can do what they want.

Any concert organizer who's not an idiot will organize concerts in protectable places, and build in the cost of security into the tickets. Any concern next to a large hotel, for example, could easily hire a few snipers to watch the windows for any in case if this occurrence. (ten snipers for five hours divided by the total number of tickets would be pretty cheap)

This is indeed a tragedy, but now that it's happened, it can be prevented with simple steps that don't require federal gun legislation.

That's kind of the way life works. Unexpected sh*t happens, then normal people learn and make sure that particular sh*t never happens again.

That's why we have those super safety locks on pill bottles. Once upon a time a guy put poison in OTC meds and society collectively learned from that oversight.

Guards on every door? Snipers on the rooftops? [Cameras on every corner, guns in every glove-box] Seriously? You are heading toward one very nasty looking society.

This is what happens with radical individualism... when we no longer think ourselves social animals. It is back in a state of nature with war of all against all. Life will become 'solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short'.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

To Christopher Columbus... wasn't your post the entire reason of the Civil War? Agrarian South vs Industrial North while expanding West and fighting Canadians + Native

Yes, it is the reality of the modern state. It is founded on an initial violence [state of nature is war of all against all] until a 'pax romana' is achieved. And yes, I think the civil war was primarily fought over the future direction of American civilization.

But that doesn't make me an ideological nut-job anarchist. I'm more a pragmatist.

 

[Von]

Guards on every door? Snipers on the rooftops? Seriously? You are heading toward one very nasty looking society.

This is what happens with radical individualism... when we no longer think ourselves social animals. It is back in a state of nature with war of all against all. Life will become 'solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short'.

Thomas Hobbes... interestingly enough... as a realist Thomas Hobbes favoured a dictartorships kinds of system (based on a social contract between humans over the supremacy of gods) to over come the State of nature

So would it means that Americans under their need of freedom/individuality actually want a God-King to provide it to them?

Trump definitely went in politics to become an emperor.

Alexis de Tocqueville with Democracy in America written in the end of the 1800's made quite a ''modern'' analysis of America.... He especially stated that nothing was more contradicting than American society and it was a perfect blend of conflicting elements (need of freedom, yet religious zealot, patriotism, local governance, social contrat yet supremacy of gods etc..)

PS: I do agree that we going back as a Western civilization to the State of Nature of Thomas Hobbes while Mid-East, Africa, Asia... are taking over the ''civilization over nature''

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Thomas Hobbes... interestingly enough... as a realist Thomas Hobbes favoured a dictartorships kinds of system (based on a social contract between humans over the supremacy of gods) to over come the State of nature

So would it means that Americans under their need of freedom/individuality actually want a God-King to provide it to them?

Trump definitely went in politics to become an emperor.

Alexis de Tocqueville with Democracy in America written in the end of the 1800's made quite a ''modern'' analysis of America.... He especially stated that nothing was more contradicting than American society and it was a perfect blend of conflicting elements (need of freedom, yet religious zealot, patriotism, local governance, social contrat yet supremacy of gods etc..)

PS: I do agree that we going back as a Western civilization to the State of Nature of Thomas Hobbes while Mid-East, Africa, Asia... are taking over the ''civilization over nature''

I think our modern thought is marked primarily by dichotomies, so we have this contrast between Hobbes pessimistic view of nature and Locke's more optimistic reading. Locke's liberal views won out. But Hobbes' authoritarianism is always lurking in the background should Locke's liberalism lose out.

I think where America is heading, if it can not get past its demonization of government, is a reversion to some Hobbesian vision. They may end up in the absurd position of gleefully pointing out a lack of 'Government' whilst also being the most controlled society on earth. Technology and surveillance will no doubt fill the vacuum.

I think the fundamental root cause of the problem is the failure to think properly. America was founded on the principles of puritanism, freedom, rationality, and individuality. Its thought is fundamentally ideological and revolutionary - it not only lacks a culture, which would provide both order and authority, but is inimical to it. It can not counter-balance the fact that we are social animals just as much as we are individuals.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Further, the right way to think of government [and to think in general] is to think analogically. The state is compared to a person.. it becomes a 'Body Politic'. Government works in the same way that the rational mind works in ordering our own passion and desires etc. But of course, we hardly even agree with this view of psychology these days. It really is rather a big mess. Given the lack of a rational/ cultural authority of law and order, we are left only with the power of technology, control, and repression.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Guards on every door? Snipers on the rooftops

Maybe you should read my post more carefully. It was an example of one way one COULD protect a venue. Five snipers for a the length of the concert.

This is precisely why discussions like this are pointless. People scan for their own trigger words and offer up a brainless response that is completely out of context, just to get their own hand-wringing self-congratulatory participation medal.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Maybe you should read my post more carefully. It was an example of one way one COULD protect a venue. Five snipers for a the length of the concert.

This is precisely why discussions like this are pointless. People scan for their own trigger words and offer up a brainless response that is completely out of context, just to get their own hand-wringing self-congratulatory participation medal.

Yes, but the problem is bigger than a stop gap measure such as that. It's a political problem that needs to be solved. If it isn't, you're looking at continued chaos.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

It's a political problem that needs to be solved

I couldn't disagree more. It can easily be solved on the private sector. No government, no politics required. Only decisions made by private property owners how best to use their private property.

 

[Red Legg]

I used to live in Las Vegas (9 years) and I saw people move to that town and blow all of their savings or retirement,then a lot of them commit suicide because they gamble to much.Already they have said the shooter lost THOUSANDS of dollars gambling the days leading up to the shooting.He was also a mega beta with a mail order partner that was ugly as fvck that he was financing.So broke beta emotional gambler decides to take people with him.As a former Clark County resident when I found out the shooter was white and a high stakes poker player my reaction was meh.......typical of Vegas actually.

 

[Von]

America is merely acknowledging these murderous acts, and the repeated mere acknowledgements are desensitizing the American culture and exposing it for what it always has been and always will be: a passive nation of spectators with a hard-on for fear and violence.

The American mindset has ALWAYS been more guns, more fences, more bombs, more security systems. These reactionary measures might have kept us feeling safe from the Russians and minorities, but you cannot stop a mass shooter from inflicting chaos and violence in public venues. You build a nation and sustain it with violence and eventually it comes back to bite you.

Advertisors pay media and corporations $$$$ to air their commercials during "breaking news." I invite the DJ to think about that the next time you're watching CNN or Fox. You're contributing to their disgusting cycle of profits via exploitation of violence and death. The media knows most Americans are addicted to violence. It is more entertaining than any other show on TV.

It seems all of the corporations merely flash a ribbon on the company website and express a sentence or two of sorrow for the victims. Not because corporations care or are interested in solving the problem. To acknowledge the murder spree makes them appear concerned

I am very angry that one of these companies have stepped forward and demanded that assault weapons be banned. I'm also disgusted that none of the media have exposed/slvut-shamed the gun mfrs. for producing and distributing murder weapons.

I cannot believe that it is still illegal in some states to possess a joint, but it is legal in some states to own an assault weapon.

History will record us as one of the most violent regimes ever known. We are making Rome in the last days look like present-day Canada.

Its à brutal logic for the people who profits from it

Its à political game after all that's been in motions for years and decades

Why people can own a gun or join the army before having the âge to vote/drink/sech?

When we read the posters about having freedom of Guns ownership, than xame an example to promote security with private corporations...

Who profits from that state of fear and we NEED Guns to Protect our freedom: people who sells gun, the security industry... which is linked to the army.. the army is a governement arm

At my time in university a debate on the concept of freedom... and security.

Why? Security is the constraint of one freedom to Protect one from another etc...

Example: in the name of security, I will take away the freedom of owning gun etc...

Interesting to see that people through the gun right.. see freedom and security in the same phrase... yet reality has always shown they clash.

Now if everyone has gun provided by the private sector (thus profits from the private), everyone his hiring PMC for their security, that we have to be going through security system just to go in the bathroom.... how safe we are? How really free are we if someone always looking behind us?.... Someone who's making profit out of the need for safety and the request of "gun" freedom... at the end.. they playing their clients and making profits on the back of fear and freedom.

That's why governement took control of the armed force... to control security and make it none-profit so they wouldn't be out of control and create conflicts for profits....but in the USA people make money out of conflicts..corporations do. Billions and Billions of contrats to develop weapons that will never come out of the factory, provide jobs in village, send kids to school, hospitals etc... USA army is 10 millions jobs direct and indirect. And you need Guns and war to make it run

So by the right of freedom in gun... you step on the right of peaceful assembly since there is so much fear of a crazy shooter and you need to hire security. Freedom to give away your freedom?

Its fascinating... to RegLeg. It's probably what happened.. the guy lost everything and décidé to end it while taking people with him

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

The "political problem" is only the desire by the State to control the people, not protect them.

They play on your emotions to achieve that goal. 1984 wasn't fiction, it was a playbook.

The political problem is a problem for all of us in so far as we live within a political state. But the roots are deeper than that... it is a deep-seated cultural and educational problem. The US looks to be culturally exhausted and bankrupt.