Ketamine therapy

[FlexpertHamilton]

Does anyone have experience with this? I see you can now legally order ketamine microdoses from the clearnet, but it's very expensive. Does anyone know have experience with prescription ketamine in a therapy context from a mental health clinic of sorts?

I ask because I strongly believe ketamine would work for me. I can get into the neuropharmacology behind it if anyone is interested.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Haha...I know plenty of people back when I DJ'd that did that on their own at far more than micro doses....

The K-Hole was real from what I heard

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Haha...I know plenty of people back when I DJ'd that did that on their own at far more than micro doses....

The K-Hole was real from what I heard

Oh I'm sure it is don't intend on using it in heavy psychedelic doses. I've already had enough psilocybin/DMT trips for a lifetime.

That said I am not actually sure what is more effective. I know it used therapeutically in clinical contexts in both huge introvanous doses several months apart, or in microdoses for sustained periods.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I used it. Way too expansive to justify the use. Find a mental health provider, nothing that they can’t cure.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I used it. Way too expansive to justify the use. Find a mental health provider, nothing that they can’t cure.

I am already seeing a therapist, but that's why i'm wanting to do with through insurance because I do agree it's way to expensive to pay out of pocket. You basically go out of your to find a specialist clinic that uses ketamine though, it's virtually never used in traditional therapy/psychiatry clinics.

 

[BeExcellent]

There are Ketamine clinics. Does your therapist perform/conduct this intervention? He or she would have to be a psychiatrist MD or DO or a psychiatric NP or PA (laws are specific to where you are).

If you are seeing a psychologist whether Masters or PhD level they cannot prescribe.

I'd find an experienced psychiatric professional who operates a ketamine clinic & discuss. That would be money well spent to correlate potential benefits & risks pertaining to your individual situation.

My $0.02.

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

I am already seeing a therapist, but that's why i'm wanting to do with through insurance because I do agree it's way to expensive to pay out of pocket. You basically go out of your to find a specialist clinic that uses ketamine though, it's virtually never used in traditional therapy/psychiatry clinics.

I could risk appearing aloof, but have you considered why that may be? Don't get me wrong, advancements are advancements and sometimes alternatives are called shots that hit the mark. But at one time we believed radithor was a good idea. Now "special K" certainly isn't in the same category, sure. But the high cost and risk... Is it worth any potential gains?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I could risk appearing aloof, but have you considered why that may be? Don't get me wrong, advancements are advancements and sometimes alternatives are called shots that hit the mark. But at one time we believed radithor was a good idea. Now "special K" certainly isn't in the same category, sure. But the high cost and risk... Is it worth any potential gains?

I believe I have dysfunctional/disregulated glutamate. I suspect this because I often feel extremely good after anesthesia (and i don't mean loopy, I mean clear-headed and lucid, for like 24 hours after), same with hangovers, and sometimes with acute sleep deprivation too. This is because anesthesia and alcohol are NMDA antagonists, and ketamine is as well. NMDA receptors are the primary binding site for glutamate which is arguably the brains most important neurotransmitter as it interacts with all other systems and is responsible for general neuronal excitability/activity. So when the NMDA receptors are temporarily antagonized, your brain responds later by having whats known "glutamate rebound" where there is increased levels of glutamate in the brain. In the case of alcohol it can lead to neurotoxicity (one reason I stopped drinking), but in the case of anesthesia and NMDA antagonist medications, it does not. For most people this does not lead to any drastic changes in subjectivity, but there is a small subset of people who report similar experiences to mine, elevated mood, lucidity/clear headedness, etc.

Ketamine is not neurotoxic and it is in fact technically an anesthetic. It has similar risks to traditional psychedelics, which I've taken many times and never had a problem with.

I'm not saying it's fully risk free though. But I think it may work. Personally I'm of the camp that avoiding risks for your whole life is a mistake. I've tried all sorts of traditional antidepressants and none of them really change much. Therapy doesn't help much either. I'm desperate. I've spent almost half my life depressed.

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

I believe I have dysfunctional/disregulated glutamate. I suspect this because I often feel extremely good after anesthesia (and i don't mean loopy, I mean clear-headed and lucid, for like 24 hours after), same with hangovers, and sometimes with acute sleep deprivation too. This is because anesthesia and alcohol are NMDA antagonists, and ketamine is as well. NMDA receptors are the primary binding site for glutamate which is arguably the brains most important neurotransmitter as it interacts with all other systems and is responsible for general neuronal excitability/activity. So when the NMDA receptors are temporarily antagonized, your brain responds later by having whats known "glutamate rebound" where there is increased levels of glutamate in the brain. In the case of alcohol it can lead to neurotoxicity (one reason I stopped drinking), but in the case of anesthesia and NMDA antagonist medications, it does not. For most people this does not lead to any drastic changes in subjectivity, but there is a small subset of people who report similar experiences to mine, elevated mood, lucidity/clear headedness, etc.

Ketamine is not neurotoxic and it is in fact technically an anesthetic. It has similar risks to traditional psychedelics, which I've taken many times and never had a problem with.

I'm not saying it's fully risk free though. But I think it may work. Personally I'm of the camp that avoiding risks for your whole life is a mistake. I've tried all sorts of traditional antidepressants and none of them really change much. Therapy doesn't help much either. I'm desperate. I've spent almost half my life depressed.

Yeah, mate. EFF all that! I'd probably try anything as well. Learn something everyday I guess. Never had anyone explain that quite in the way you did. I'm of a mind with Mencius when it comes to those who are risk adverse. "I dislike death, but there are things I dislike more than death. Therefore there are times when I will not avoid danger." I ride effing motorcycles FFS! Say, you haven't tried that yet have you? There's not as high of a barrier of entry as you'd think, and if you think the roads are too risky, there are always dirt tracks or off road trails to hit with a dirt bike. Doesn't do anything chemically other that aid in hormone production and burn about 300kcal per hour, but I swear up and down I wouldn't be the same man I am now without a bike.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I believe I have dysfunctional/disregulated glutamate. I suspect this because I often feel extremely good after anesthesia (and i don't mean loopy, I mean clear-headed and lucid, for like 24 hours after), same with hangovers, and sometimes with acute sleep deprivation too. This is because anesthesia and alcohol are NMDA antagonists, and ketamine is as well. NMDA receptors are the primary binding site for glutamate which is arguably the brains most important neurotransmitter as it interacts with all other systems and is responsible for general neuronal excitability/activity. So when the NMDA receptors are temporarily antagonized, your brain responds later by having whats known "glutamate rebound" where there is increased levels of glutamate in the brain. In the case of alcohol it can lead to neurotoxicity (one reason I stopped drinking), but in the case of anesthesia and NMDA antagonist medications, it does not. For most people this does not lead to any drastic changes in subjectivity, but there is a small subset of people who report similar experiences to mine, elevated mood, lucidity/clear headedness, etc.

Ketamine is not neurotoxic and it is in fact technically an anesthetic. It has similar risks to traditional psychedelics, which I've taken many times and never had a problem with.

I'm not saying it's fully risk free though. But I think it may work. Personally I'm of the camp that avoiding risks for your whole life is a mistake. I've tried all sorts of traditional antidepressants and none of them really change much. Therapy doesn't help much either. I'm desperate. I've spent almost half my life depressed.

If you really want ketamine, get Spravato which is FDA approved and insurance will pay for. Don’t shell out $5k or more for something that is going to wear off in four weeks. I’ve been there.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

If you really want ketamine, get Spravato which is FDA approved and insurance will pay for. Don’t shell out $5k or more for something that is going to wear off in four weeks. I’ve been there.

yeah that's why I'm asking about this, as I will only do it if my insurance covers all of it.

Yeah, mate. EFF all that! I'd probably try anything as well. Learn something everyday I guess. Never had anyone explain that quite in the way you did. I'm of a mind with Mencius when it comes to those who are risk adverse. "I dislike death, but there are things I dislike more than death. Therefore there are times when I will not avoid danger." I ride effing motorcycles FFS! Say, you haven't tried that yet have you? There's not as high of a barrier of entry as you'd think, and if you think the roads are too risky, there are always dirt tracks or off road trails to hit with a dirt bike. Doesn't do anything chemically other that aid in hormone production and burn about 300kcal per hour, but I swear up and down I wouldn't be the same man I am now without a bike.

Oh yeah I picked up riding a little over 4 years ago and ride almost every day. I don't even own a car anymore. I will ride in when during a downpour in the cold and wind at nighttime, don't care. Only time I won't ride is when it gets close to freezing outside, or during heavy thunderstorms.

I do think it actually helps my mental health a bit and there's some research on this actually which is pretty interesting. I think I need to upgrade to a 750/1000CC bike if I want to feel even better though .