Just learned that a friend will be divorcing his wife of 16 years

[MatureDJ]

Let me give some background info. This guy, who for all intents and purposes, had never dated anyone else, marries his childhood sweetheart, and they have 2 boys. At 16 she was quite attractive. She has always had a little bit of childish attitude, but in a way that isn't bad, if that makes any sense. In general though, her general warmth and graciousness makes her a nice woman to be around. To the best of my knowledge, she has never been the type of woman to have "headaches".

Whereas he has gradually learned to fend for himself socially, worked hard at his business, taken an interest in bettering himself like getting in good shape, etc., she has, in the typical American Woman way, let herself go to the point that she has no sexual value. He has always complained about the situation to her, but to no avail. Along the way, he has taken more and more of an interest in flirting with women, etc. He obviously has been detecting that his sexual market value is far in excess of hers.

Then a few years ago, a natural disaster happened which forced her and the kids to live out of town, while he stayed around. This seemed to give him the last bit of fortitude that he could make it on his own emotionally, as well as give the perfect reason to get out. Right before she moved back, he let his intentions be known, and he has kept his separate residence.

Our common social circle includes his and her family members, and a few friends, with only 2 of us who are bachelors. As Rollo Tomassi and many others have always said, the ostracization has been very, very strong from the females, and even strong from most of the males.

As for me, I am of the opinion that she had it coming for not doing her duty to present him with anything remotely near to an attractive woman that would satisfy his sexual appetite. For a man who takes care of himself, she is really an embarrassment to him in this regard (of course, I could say this about a lot of other man I know!)

Anyway, soon I will be seeing them for the first time in a while (evidently they will both be this party!) along with many others who I haven't seen since this issue came up. At the very least, I feel I should give him some encouragement in the path he has chosen.

 

[joekerr31]

call me crazy but what you just said was....

1) she has been a loyal wife, who is a kind person, who is fun to be around, and who gives him sex whenever he wants it even after 16 years.
2) she's not hot anymore
3) ergo he should divorce her.


dude, based on that information alone, you buddy is a total *sshole. he's a self centered piece of sh*t who is abandoning his responsibilities to his family and thinking of himself instead.

now, when a woman is ruining your life and providing your kids with a bad example, divorcing her may be the only option on the table.

but divorcing his wife whose only crime is that she got fat is beyond absurd. get her a gym membership and a personal trainer for f*ck sake. it will cost you less than her taking 50% and the costs associated with dating and f*cking new women.

who knows, maybe there is a reason why what your buddy is doing makes sense, but from what you wrote i don't see it.

i mean, based on your logic if your wife was in an car accident, house fire, had breast cancer and had a breast removed, etc. - these would all be reasons to bail on the marriage.

anyway, if she is as good a wife as you say, your friend will dump her, have fun for 5 years, then realize he messed up by leaving a woman that truly loved him.

but this only goes to show that getting married young is the wrong way to go.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...who knows, maybe there is a reason why what your buddy is doing makes sense, but from what you wrote i don't see it.....

Because he had emotionally divorced her years ago. Maybe if they had addressed their issues at their onset they may have had a chance of pulling things back together. He could stick around but last I heard the government had done away with indentured servitude. Oh wait a minute, they did get married.

 

[MatureDJ]

... divorcing his wife whose only crime is that she got fat is beyond absurd. get her a gym membership and a personal trainer for f*ck sake. it will cost you less than her taking 50% and the costs associated with dating and f*cking new women.

Believe me, he has tried to help her to take of herself, offering tons of encouragement, but she seems to have no desire to help herself. What good is a personal trainer is a person does not want to help herself, and would rather eat bon bons?

Now I am not saying that she is a total princess. Like everyone, she has some warts, but taken as a whole, the personality side is good. Or thinking of it alternatively, if she had kept herself fit, he would not be interested in other women, as the relationship would be satisfying.

 

[joekerr31]

and sure, if we were talking about two people who were dating id say the weight issue was a justified reason for him to leave.

heck, even if we were talking about just a marriage id probably say he's a pretty shallow guy, but its his life, so he can do what he wants.

but we aren't. we are talking a marriage with kids involved.

maybe im way outside the norm now a days (and the 50%+ divorce rate sure suggests it), but once you have kids i think its your duty to do everything in your power to provide them with the best home life you can.

dumping their mom because her *ss got fat is not doing that.

and there will be fall out. the wife will probably have a break down. there will definitely be resentment. and the kids will see and experience all that.

anyway, given that everything is fine other than she has let herself go physically, i just see so much damage in the cards for everyone involved here, when there doesn't need to be.

im all for divorcing a woman if she behaves like a selfish b*tch or something (even if kids are involved). but i could never condon leaving a good wife and mother to my kids simply because she put on a few extra pounds.

id simply find a way to get her to lose the weight.

 

[STR8UP]

Hmmm.....I dunno. "Normal wear and tear" is one thing, but a guy (or a girl) who makes an effort to stay fit shouldn't be shackled to a partner who physically repulses them.

 

[gmonster2]

It will be interesting to see if she gets the motivation from somewhere to hit the gym now shes been dumped ...

 

[joekerr31]

Hmmm.....I dunno. "Normal wear and tear" is one thing, but a guy (or a girl) who makes an effort to stay fit shouldn't be shackled to a partner who physically repulses them.

hehe. they should work that into the vows then.

priest: '....for better or for worse or until someone is overweight."

 

[Bible_Belt]

call me crazy but what you just said was....

1) she has been a loyal wife, who is a kind person, who is fun to be around, and who gives him sex whenever he wants it even after 16 years.
2) she's not hot anymore
3) ergo he should divorce her.


dude, based on that information alone, you buddy is a total *sshole. he's a self centered piece of sh*t who is abandoning his responsibilities to his family and thinking of himself instead.

now, when a woman is ruining your life and providing your kids with a bad example, divorcing her may be the only option on the table.

but divorcing his wife whose only crime is that she got fat is beyond absurd. get her a gym membership and a personal trainer for f*ck sake. it will cost you less than her taking 50% and the costs associated with dating and f*cking new women.

who knows, maybe there is a reason why what your buddy is doing makes sense, but from what you wrote i don't see it.

i mean, based on your logic if your wife was in an car accident, house fire, had breast cancer and had a breast removed, etc. - these would all be reasons to bail on the marriage.

anyway, if she is as good a wife as you say, your friend will dump her, have fun for 5 years, then realize he messed up by leaving a woman that truly loved him.

but this only goes to show that getting married young is the wrong way to go.

Have you ever been married? It's pretty funny if you haven't, and you are giving all of this advice and judgement about marriage.

My wife gained about 100 pounds during our seven-year marriage, so I consider myself an authority on the subject of fat wives. It changes everything. Imagine carrying around a 100 pound pack all day every day, and think about how it would change you. And women who get fat rarely keep up a good sex life. They are too self-conscious about their bodies to have good sex even when they try. Even if the woman keeps trying, good luck being intimate with Jabba the Hut. Towards the end, I was worrying about falling off of her, it was like climbing a small, gelatinous mountain.

And btw, lest I incur your wrath, too, I did not divorce her. She goaded me into admitting that I was less attracted to her (100 pounds, btw, wtf?), then she ran off cheating. Later I even forgave that, and wanted to stay married, but she filed for divorce anyway, even though I begged her not to. I'm not crying about it, though, now I am much happier with a much hotter gf; the ex-wife and I are still friends - she wants me back, but honestly I can only be her friend. There's no attraction.

Like the OP, I blame the wife. She knew this could happen, and no one forced all of that food down her throat. The victim act is baloney. It's her fault.

 

[jonwon]

I'd divorce her for becoming a fat slob also.

Well done for the guy, i'd shake his hands.

I am sure when his kids grow up they will understand, there mother turned into a usless fat slob and the father realized life is too short to spend it with some fat slob.

I see this everywhere, i reckon about 70% of marriages the women lets herself go and becomes a fat slob, i see it all the time.

I even saw it in the supermarket last night, this attractive guy, kept himself in shape and next to him is big fat fuc*ing blob of a wife and i just thought 'poor' bastar*, he has to go home and pork THAT! every-night.

And the worst thing is, married men are trapped in the marriage due to a feminised social state and women know it, thats why they pile on the pounds, as they get too comfortable with there lot and then make no effort.

This is imo the death of ANY relationship, why the hell should any person man or wife have to waste there years with a person in a relationship who does not make an effort to remain attractive to the other.

To me the selfish fuc* is the wife, she also sounds dumb, since she cant see the fact she is the reason why the marriage is broken down, since would she be willing to fuc* him, if he lost his job and was sat at home slobbing all day and pilling on the pounds? No she would be applauded by OPRAH and the other feminist hags to divorce him as he CANT keep HER happy.

Bout time men stood up for the VALUES and sent a shot across womens bows like this, if he has the RESPECT to keep his status attractive to her, HE SHOULD expect a good return back, sadly all he is getting is a FAT FUC8 to parade around shops and the shame of telling people that is his wife, the young pritty slim thing who got too comfortable and now resembles a fat fuc*ing pig who could not attract anything.

Good on him, shame in the american western sphere she will probably get the house and the kids, even though she left the marriage when she started to stuff her fat face with cakes and became a slob that was so unatractive he would rather sleep in an other room, that to me sounds worse then prison the poor poor guy, another reason to stay away from:

Marriage:

Your wife may become a fat useless slob where you cant bear to lay next to her.

Boycott fat usless women, boycott Western marriage! thats what i say!
Maybe women will start to make an effort instead of sitting on there fat cake filled rhino ass*s knowing they will be ok regardless!

Good on him, i will make a toast to him on the weekend whilst i go chat up some young sexy women.

Yes i know this first hand, my Ex Wife went down the same route has do MOST WESTERN WOMEN, i made her work it off and it built up RESENTMENT, one of many reasons why she was a USLESS WIFE, like most other western women, pampered potential fat slobs!

I saw my EX two months ago, 2 years to the day, when i left her, she was slim and sexy, now she is a fat slob who has some old provider guy looking after her, glad i got out and so will he!

 

[betterthandead]

I'm usually flexible about dating rules but here is one that should stick to anyone.

*NEVER* marry your first and only girlfriend. Marriage does not equate to love.

 

[azanon]

There has to be equity in a marriage for it to work over time. If your spouse is busting their ass working out and staying in shape, you better do the same. How dare my wife even think she has the right to let herself go when I work so hard on staying in shape myself. For her to choose to not do so would be showing me an extreme level of disrespect, and also ignorant arrogance on her part for even thinking I would put up with that.

Bravo to the guy divorcing her.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I think the brother has every justification for divorcing Miss Piggy. He acknowledges what he will and will not put up with or limit himself to. She, on the other hand, doesn't have such aspriations. She feels as if he owes her to stay out of what? loyalty? Fvck that. He's tried to help her and she disregarded it. Her fault. Her responsibility. If she truly wanted to keep him happy she would have done the legwork (and ab work and cardio, etc, etc . . .).

Joekerr, you're saying because she smiles and gorges her throat with cupcakes he's obligated to stay with her because she's got a good heart? Bible Belt asked a good question, "Have you ever been married?" because I'd like to know how you can reference this guys position if you haven't.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...but we aren't. we are talking a marriage with kids involved.

maybe im way outside the norm now a days (and the 50%+ divorce rate sure suggests it), but once you have kids i think its your duty to do everything in your power to provide them with the best home life you can. ....

A marriage that's not viable for whatever reason does not benefit the children. Besides, you don't need to be married to be a good parent. All you need to do is be civil to one another and parent on a united front.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I see two issues at play in this situation. First is the societal aspect regarding the response to this man's circumstances, and then the circumstances (and what led to them) themselves.

JOKER's having the typical, predictable, response to hearing about the set of circumstances that are leading to this guy's decision to divorce his wife. We almost universally will side with even the most vindictive of women in any breaking of responsibility on a male's part. This is a very integral part of the ageless perception that women are by default victims and deserving of male & female protection - in fact this dynamic has evolutionary and biological fundaments.

But let's reverse the roles now. Let's say, for sake of example, it was the husband who was very attractive at 16, always had a little bit of childish attitude, but in a way that isn't bad, and is always amiable, courteous, dependable and loyal to a fault. Over the course of 10-12 years of marriage he "lets himself go" and becomes 100 pounds or so overweight (technically obese, I should add). He's a good father, but really ambitionless and is happy in his simplicity. Meanwhile his wife he has gradually learned to fend for herself socially, worked hard at her business, taken an interest in bettering herself, like getting in good shape. She complains about his weight and lack of ambition/motivation and eventually becomes more flirtatious socially and enjoys the attention she gets from men who are ambitious, motivated and good looking. Following this man's scenario, she ultimately files for divorce based on these circumstances.

Who are we more sympathetic with in this scenario? Who is the one not living up to their responsibilities? In an equitable society, logically, it should be the hapless fat guy that all his buddies and most of her girlfriends should side with, correct? IT's all about what's on the inside, right? But I think we can all see that this would never be the case and we'd be more inclined to think the woman justified in her actions, even if it meant tamping down the better part of our sense of equality. You see, by default, it's men who do not have the luxury to be anything less than responsible for our own situations and conditions. Would we call this hypothetical woman "shallow" for wanting a man who offered more physically and ambition-wise? No. In fact we'd say it was his own damn fault for not manning up and staying on top of things. He's the one with the problem and she's only "looking out for her own best interests." However when applied to the feminine, the social contrivance that automatically presumes the woman a victim comes into play for both sexes judging the situation. Both sexes' protective imperative comes into play - women, by natural association, and men, even if they'd never consider the idea of a relationship with the fat girl, will still sympathize if for no other reason than the assumed social proof that comes with aligning themselves with the feminine so as not to appear like "that other guy."

Now then, the other consideration in this relationship is the fact that neither partner has the benefit of experience to make valid comparisons with respect to other potential mates. Essentially these "high school sweethearts" have only ever known sex with each other. This is an important element because of the limitations it presents in various stages of life. While this couple's friends were out dating, exploring and maturing socially, they were busy with the responsibility of raising two children during their 20's. Even if this wasn't necessarily the truth with all of their friends, this is the perception most married couples have - that they'd missed out on their 20's (sometimes 30's) because they settled too early. While the husband is out doing the responsible thing for 16 years, he gradually comes to realize not only his increased self-worth and sexual value, but also the missed opportunities he's seen go by while doing the responsible thing. This then is only aggrivated by his wife's complete disinterest in improving herself if for no other reason than to convey her appreciation or respect for him. Other women he sees socially DO appreciate his value, they DO respond to him and they've only known him a fraction of the time he's been married. Essentially, he's come to the realization that he married too young and has missed out a lot of things he'd like to experience. The difference now is that he's finally in a position to act on this.

This man's story is probably the most common I expereinced when I did peer counseling back in Nevada. Most of these guys were professionals, mid to late 30's and all their stories were the same; "I feel like I've done everything anyone ever expected of me for the past 10-15 years and I get no appreciation for it." These guys "did the right thing" and either their wive's were unresponsive to them or they still viewed them as a "fixer upper" project that they were constantly working on.

This experience is what helped me to better understand the myth of the Mid-Life Crisis. Men, in most western culture's do in fact experience a mid-life crisis, but this isn't due to the trivialized and oft ridiculed by pop culture reasoning. Women, and feminization, would have us believe that men experiencing a mid-life crisis need to buy a sports car or divorce their wives in favor of a 'trophy wife' due to some repressed need to recapture their lost youth. This of course fits into the feminized myth that men are egoisitic, simple creatures and masculinity is infantile in nature, but this only serves to reassure women that they "still got it" at 40.

No, the truth about men's mid-life crises isn't about recapturing youth, it's about finally understanding the trappings they've been sold into through their 20's and 30's and coming to terms with that often horrible truth. Some men do in fact buy the sports car, get the new hottie wife or act in some fashion that appears reckless and irresponsible. This isn't due to infantilism, but rather new understanding of their own position as men. They've "lived responsibly" for so long and for so little appreciation that when that true realization is made they feel the need to move. They've become respected, put in the hours, the sacrifice, the censoring of their own views. They realize now that they've put off true passions in favor of maintaining what others have told him was his responsibility - whether it was his choice or not. And all for what? A fat wife? A shrew? Maybe even a fantastic marriage and a wonderful family life, but also a nagging doubt about not seeing enough of the world by 40 because of it. I worry about men who don't come to this crisis, these are the men who are truly lost. These are the guys who remain life long AFCs, happy in their ignorance.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Great post Rollo.

I think it's the double standard that raises a few hairs here. As stated, she's the 'victim', but if the tables were turned, and the man gained a bunch of weight, he would not be 'maning up' so to speak.

But focusing on this one marriage...divorce may not be the best solution.

I've never been married, but I see Joekerr's point, that when children are involved, it's really the best interest of the children that matters. So, if the wive is a great mother, has a big heart, and doing everything else correctly, but has gained a bunch of weight..

It's not just about his happiness, or hers anymore, there's little ones involved that need to be protected and raised properly.

It's a tough one, I'm not sure what I would actually do in that situation, but I think personally that if I had issues with my wife's weight, I'd be upfront and straightforward about it. I would lead her in the right direction. I would show her my concerns about her health and welfare. I think something like this can be solved together, as a team, instead of dissolved.

Off topic, but Rollo mentioned the mid-life crisis. This is one thing where society seems to actually throw us men a bone. A mid-life crisis is laughed at, joked about, but somewhat 'understandable' for men to go through.

It is a myth though, for if we live our lives to the fullest as we should be doing anyway, it would not happen....but it is something that we should take advantage of.

I'm planning my 'mid-life crisis' right now. I'm not going to waste that opportunity. :yes:

 

[joekerr31]

haha. well this is a first. im pretty much completely against the current on this one. everyone pretty much disagrees with me. which is ok

but i still stand by my views. couple of points in response to posts above...

- when we were talking about 'overweight' im assuming 30 pounds kind of thing. 100 pounds is a different story. although even 100 pounds would not change my opinion on divorice/

- i still hold to my view that given this relationship apparently works on every other single level, it absurd to ditch his wife, lay that b urden on his kids, deal with the aftermath of divorce, all because she is overweight.

- i agree with what you said RT when you talked about guys in their 30s who had done the right thing for so many years without it being appreciated and then realizing they could have so much more in life and then want to go out and experience that. but when you have a family and take that attitude you ARE being selfish. instead of blaming your wife for gettign fat, just be honest with yourself that you no longer wish to honor your vows and that you want to do the selfish thing with is cut loose of her.

- as for your other comments RT, i disagree. im not seeing the wife as a victim. nor would i have a different view if she were the hot one with a good career and he was the fat one who stayed at home watchign the kids. i honestly wouldn't.

- i am NOT saying that the weight is not an issue. it is an issue. but it is by no means something a person should get divorced over. that is absurd. it is so easily rectifiable. at the VERY least this guy needs to sit down with his wife and say 'listen, honey, this weight issue is too much for me to handle. if you can't address this problem and start living a healthier life then i think we need look at seperating. because i want to live a vibrant healthy life."

now if her response is to shove a piece cake in her mouth and tell him to go to h*ll, etc.... then ok, he gave it his all.

anyway, im probably the biggest nexter in here. more often than not my advise is to walk away.

but when we are talking about a marriage, with kids, where the woman is a decent woman who hasnt cheated, doesnt treat her husband badly etc. - getting a divorce is a dumb idea until all options have been exhausted first.

i reiterate, i can appreciate how it is a big issue when physical attraction is gone. its a big deal.

but i think you guys have create an extreme position in your head of this woman going from princess lia to jabba the hut.

until the poster clarifies that she has gained 100-200 pounds, im not going to jump to that conclusion.

most women in their 30s after having 2 kids have put on about 20 pounds. so i wouldn't be surprised if this one has put on 30-40.

j

 

[joekerr31]

oh and as for the posters who say 'your not married so shut your trap'...whatever.

you think you have to be married to understand marriage? that idiotic.

human nature is what it is, whether inside or outside the bond of marriage.

 

[DavenJuan]

i have to agree with joekerr...but only to a certain extent..

Marriage is bound and to simply walk away due to weight gain seems absurd.

However... the problem lies more than with just her weight. Her weight gain probably bleeds into other forms of depression and insecurity.

she doesnt want him to look at her
she doesnt like to have sex
she becomes extremely jealous EVERY time you go out,
She begins to not trust you because of her own insecurties

At what point do you exhaust every bone in your body and say enough is enough?

I had a gf like this and at first it was simply the weight gain, but then turned every other aspect of our relationship into disaster. for me i could walk away. There were no tie downs. but if you married with children, and she isnt willing to even try...then what say you?? tough call

 

[joekerr31]

dave,

i agree. but hte poster made this out as she was great in every other respect.

no depression. no moodiness. never refuses sex. etc.

this seems to be a case that is no more complicated than his wife gained 30-40 pounds after having two kids, is in the routine of being a mother, and simply just isn't in to the working out lifestyle that would allow her to drop that baby fat weight.

and i guess why im still standing my ground is that if you aren't prepared to get through times like these in a marriage - PLEASE DO NOT GET MARRIED AND HAVE KIDS!

the real problem in all this is the guy got married very very young (in essence). he's been eating chicken for 16 years nad he wants to taste what steak is like. this weight issue is merely his excuse for bailing. this is no different than women who come up will bullsh*t excuses for bailing on their guy.

moreover, like i say, do NOT get married if you do not love a woman and value you her above all the others you have dated. If you are marrying her cuz she is 'all right', or because you didnt feel you had other options, you are making a huge mistake. because marriage is going to have its ups and downs. your woman might gain some weight. she might get cancer and lose all her hair. you might get cancer and lose your testicles. sh*t happens. you have to love the person you are marrying (not just her body) if you have any hope of your marriage lasting.
J