Is shoulder work neccessary?

[yake]

I want to try a really simple workout routine, i.e. squats, deadlifts, bench presses, chinups and calf raises. Would overhead presses be neccessary to work the whole body?

 

[Warboss Alex]

If you wanna build the shoulders optimally, yes

 

[Throttle]

offhand I'd say they're the next thing I'd add to your list.

 

[donjuanjovi]

The only exercise in there that touches the shoulder is the bench press. I would definately add some sort of shoulder movement. Who really wants weak looking shoulders anyways???

 

[shaunuk]

Hm well if I was only gonna have 5 lifts like you I'd have: squats, deadlifts, bench press, chinups, shoulder press. Yeah, I know the calves would be neglected, but at least I'd be working more musculature that way. I'm sure all your other work (i.e. squats) must make the calves grow in some way, though I can't confirm that at all...anyone?

BTW, deadlifts do hit the traps if done right, but I'd still do a shoulder press, i.e. DB shoulder press, standing overhead press, military press.

-shaun

 

[6-heads lewis]

How would you incorporate shoulder press into a 5x5 routine?

I currently do this, rotating which group I do 2x/week:

squat/flat bench/rows/dips or close BP
squat/incline bench/deadlift

I tried adding in military press on the 2nd day, but triceps really felt overtrained. For some reason military press seems to strain up upper back the most and cause slight pain.

I get plenty of front shoulder work, would adding 2 sets of side raises on the 2nd day be sufficient?

 

[Throttle]

show me a big guy doing side raises and I'll recommend them to anyone. they're too easy to "swing" (dangerous) and too hard to move up in weights.

back pain from shoulder presses indicates to me that you're probably leaning back a bit rather than keeping your back in a neutral position. two possibilities: try them seated; or try lighter weight and focus on form. I think a lot of guys overestimate how much they should be able to press over their heads.

 

[cuzza]

How is the side deltoid getting worked then without side raises?

 

[shaunuk]

I tried adding in military press on the 2nd day, but triceps really felt overtrained. For some reason military press seems to strain up upper back the most and cause slight pain.

Hmm, yeah. I used to try doing shoulders with chest+triceps, but by the time I've done my incline press and dips, my triceps have been hit too hard to do shoulder presses. My suggestion would be to do your overhead presses seated, with dumbbells, with a wider grip (i.e. place the dumbbells wider than your shoulders). This involves your triceps less.

-shaun

 

[6-heads lewis]

thanks shaun ill give that a try. im worried about overtraining front shoulders, but ill see how it goes.

throttle - i dont have any lower back strain, and am sure i dont lean back, if anything I actually slightly lean forward towards the end, but out of neecessity as opposed to cheating. i dont think im going too heavy, im using the same form currently at 115x5 as I did when I started at 60x5.

the first half of the lift is effortless for me, once the bar gets over my head it becomes a struggle. the mid-way to lockout portion is very slow, and i feel a sharp, grinding pain in my lats/rear shoulders. although the lift is supposed to be for upper chest/front shoulders, I only really feel it in my lats, side shoulders and triceps.

any ideas?

 

[spesmilitis]

make sure you go all the way down when doing shoulder press:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html

common mistake is only going low enough so that elbows are only 90 degrees.

 

[Throttle]

hmm... well grinding pain is nature's way of telling you not to do that. i'll leave the biomechanics to someone who understands them better.

cuzza>> that assumes that you need to focus on the side deltoid. if you're doing a 5 or 6 exercise routine, it goes w/o saying that you're going to only tagentially hit lots of muscles and/or muscle groups.

 

[blinkwatt]

common mistake is only going low enough so that elbows are only 90 degrees.

Going past 90 degress can strain the sh1t out of your shoulders.

 

[Throttle]

exactly. i'd put that on a list of things not to do if you like your rotator cuffs (others include swinging lateral db raises past horizontal; military presses behind the neck; lat pulldowns behind the next; and db bench press below where the equivalent bar would cave in your chest).

it's a miracle the damn things work at all.

 

[mrRuckus]

i.e. squats, deadlifts, bench presses, chinups and calf raises.

The only exercise in there that touches the shoulder is the bench press.

Uh what? I don't know what kind of wacky body you have.

 

[yake]

So mrR., would you say I am hitting my shoulders enough, would you add overhead presses or would you maybe add bent over rows?

 

[shaunuk]

So mrR., would you say I am hitting my shoulders enough, would you add overhead presses or would you maybe add bent over rows?

Although you're asking mrRuckus, my opinion is that you should put an overhead pressing movement in, so that you'll have all the basic movements...squat, deadlift, bench, pullup and shoulder press. The bench and pullups and deadlifts should hit the shoulders at least somewhat, but it's your choice

-shaun

 

[donjuanjovi]

Uh what? I don't know what kind of wacky body you have.

Yeah I wasn't really thinking when I posted that. I just think he should include some sort of direct shoulder movement in his routine.

 

[Warboss Alex]

bent over rows aren't a shoulder movement but should be included anyway.

 

[mrRuckus]

yes do an overhead press