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is it normal to get ghost'd after 5 dates without warning?

PlatoPacks23

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I didn’t read all the replies except the first page.

But yea. You probably didn’t smash, the relationship got stale for her, and she may have question your qualities as a leader. She didn’t want to hurt your feelings.
Yeah I think she was willing to do another chance but after I got needy on text it screwed things up. I’m still gonna text but it’s so cutthroat out there man, sucks
 
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Yeah I think she was willing to do another chance but after I got needy on text it screwed things up. I’m still gonna text but it’s so cutthroat out there man, sucks
This is a common experience a lot of us have had. The close calls are an important part of the process because they build frustration but also a healthy anticipation "I'm getting closer". You did good. You managed to spend a lot of time with her. A lot guys don't even get that far. Let the close calls sting and remember the pain of fumbling the baddie for the next time you're in the same position with a girl. It will help you follow through next time. It's not enough to spin plates. You actually have to follow through.
 

PlatoPacks23

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This is a common experience a lot of us have had. The close calls are an important part of the process because they build frustration but also a healthy anticipation "I'm getting closer". You did good. You managed to spend a lot of time with her. A lot guys don't even get that far. Let the close calls sting and remember the pain of fumbling the baddie for the next time you're in the same position with a girl. It will help you follow through next time. It's not enough to spin plates. You actually have to follow through.
thanks, from reading posts here it sounds like I was a total failure so thank you.

call me crazy but I *still don't think it's fully over. we will see, but one way or another I'll have an answer in a few days
 

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Rainrain

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Yeah I think she was willing to do another chance but after I got needy on text it screwed things up. I’m still gonna text but it’s so cutthroat out there man, sucks
Just go to the gym, work on your projects, and as soon as another woman shows interest in you you will forget about this one. Trust me.

Your role as a man is to show women a good time and create opportunities to be intimate and hook up. Their aura is to focus on the relationship (hence why they are the ones to tell you if they want to continue talking to you or just ghost you).

Another thing is stop being so predictable. This passages from the Art of Seduction if you want to learn a little game and not let things get stale:

“Important things happen when your target is alone: the slightest relief that you are not there, and it is all over. Familiarity and overexposure will create this reaction. Remain elusive, so that when you are away, they yearn to see you again, and will only associate you with pleasant thoughts. Occupy their minds by alternating an exciting presence with a cool distance, exuberant moments with calculated absences. Feed these fantasies by subtle inconsistencies and changes in your behaviour” (personal example - initiate texting them 3 days straight and on the forth completely ghost them. Reappear on the 5th)
 

PlatoPacks23

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Just go to the gym, work on your projects, and as soon as another woman shows interest in you you will forget about this one. Trust me.

Your role as a man is to show women a good time and create opportunities to be intimate and hook up. Their aura is to focus on the relationship (hence why they are the ones to tell you if they want to continue talking to you or just ghost you).

Another thing is stop being so predictable. This passages from the Art of Seduction if you want to learn a little game and not let things get stale:

“Important things happen when your target is alone: the slightest relief that you are not there, and it is all over. Familiarity and overexposure will create this reaction. Remain elusive, so that when you are away, they yearn to see you again, and will only associate you with pleasant thoughts. Occupy their minds by alternating an exciting presence with a cool distance, exuberant moments with calculated absences. Feed these fantasies by subtle inconsistencies and changes in your behaviour” (personal example - initiate texting them 3 days straight and on the forth completely ghost them. Reappear on the 5th)
yeah post valentines day most likely I'll get super back into gym and dating.. (already started this weekend). Even met someone today who made me feel pretty good, so that's a start.

it just feels like there's unfinished business still, but yes I see what the role position is.

Lot more gameplay! Stop being predictable, thanks.
 

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PlatoPacks23

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Stop with this nonsense closure; You sound like my daughter.
You got few great advice from few experience members here, and as with many bf you, you opt to ignore it and do you, just to be back later and said the forum was right. Smh,,,
what is there to be back for? I got the message and am doing this for myself I could care less about her.
 

The Diver

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You just don't get it, don't you?
As long as you hold this feminine mindset, that some of its indicators are poems, and needing closure after 5 dates, you're going nowhere.
if you have been in a LTR for few years seeking closure, that would be understood, but not after 5 dates. It's feminine and won't help you adopting the right mindset.
As long as your mindset is feminine, your actions will be feminine.
 
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Pierce.Manhammer

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If the OP is anywhere near a big city, I’m pretty sure he isn’t taking this chick to The Olive Garden or Denny’s on dates.

The average cost for dinner in a larger metro area is from $100-$200 for two people. Dude has invested circa $1000 on dates. Let’s cut him some slack, he’s made a bad financial decision. (Speculative).

Unfortunately for him he’s a victim of sneating, a common problem.

However the OP needs to realize that asking the same question, again and again is not going to get him different answers. He also has shown he’s willing to prolong the discussion even though everyone is saying the same thing repeatedly.
 

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BackInTheGame78

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If the OP is anywhere near a big city, I’m pretty sure he isn’t taking this chick to The Olive Garden or Denny’s on dates.

The average cost for dinner in a larger metro area is from $100-$200 for two people. Dude has invested circa $1000 on dates. Let’s cut him some slack, he’s made a bad financial decision. (Speculative).

Unfortunately for him he’s a victim of sneating, a common problem.

However the OP needs to realize that asking the same question, again and again is not going to get him different answers. He also has shown he’s willing to prolong the discussion even though everyone is saying the same thing repeatedly
$1000 in 5 dates? I don't know if I've spent that much on a woman in a year.
 
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thanks, from reading posts here it sounds like I was a total failure so thank you.

call me crazy but I *still don't think it's fully over. we will see, but one way or another I'll have an answer in a few days
All good bro. How are you feeling about everything that's happened so far? What did you enjoy most about your time together? Do you feel like you've communicated your feelings and expectations clearly to her?
 
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BackInTheGame78

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thanks, from reading posts here it sounds like I was a total failure so thank you.

call me crazy but I *still don't think it's fully over. we will see, but one way or another I'll have an answer in a few days
It's over. When you give a woman the sense you might be a psycho/stalker type by the way you've acted she would rather never date again then go out with you.
 

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SW15

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The Olive Garden or Denny’s on dates.
The Olive Garden and Denny's are not acceptable date options if a man wants to ensure the early stage interaction continues. There are no larger chain restaurants good for pre-sex, early stage dates.

he’s a victim of sneating, a common problem.
Agree that sneating (women dating for free meals) is a common problem. The best way around this is to not do dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. However, men are often on the hook for the costs of early stage dates no matter the activity. If a man doesn't do dinner dates in a restaurant, he's picking up the costs of drinks in a bar or some other activity date, such as going to a museum or ice skating.

Men picking up costs of dates is outdated. This is a cultural idea that made sense in the 1800s-1970, before women were entering the workforce in large numbers. We're talking about an idea now ~50 years outdated. Women have such abundance now that if one man refuses to pick up the cost of early stage dates, every woman knows that there are plenty of other men who are willing to do so. Not paying for any sort of date means that a man in most cases won't end up seeing that woman again.

In the late 2000s - early 2010s, I remember picking up the cost of early stage dates (often not even meals) for women who had a higher annual salary than I had at that time. I remember thinking that it was quite unfair to me to do that. In more recent years, I have more commonly been the higher earner on my dates but I've still been picking up date costs for women who could easily afford to pay their own ways on these dates.

The average cost for dinner in a larger metro area is from $100-$200 for two people.
The cost of a dinner in a non-chain restaurant that will have a decent ambiance for an early stage date is ridiculous. In Dallas (a large metro area), I could get a first date dinner cost below $100, but I'd be challenged to get it below $50. Even a first date with 4 drinks (2 per person) at a bar/lounge with good date ambiance is going to be pricy and getting near $50 after a tip in many cases.

These high costs should force more men to be more selective with who they take on dates. I'm not seeing that happening in the broader market but it is affecting me personally. With these costs for dates, I want to ensure I'm picking up the costs of a first date for someone I'm going to see at least a 2nd time. I don't want to waste my time on a woman who is going to flake on me after a first date or I'm going to want to get rid of after a first date. The best way for me to do this is to screen women through some real life approaching method. It is difficult to determine the probability of a good first date from text messages and phone calls. Video calling/conferencing is the best remote way to determine the probability of a good first date. Setting up a video call takes some effort. I'd rather meet women in-person than be on a dating app and setting up video calls. That's not even taking into account that dating apps have really bad ratios.

Dude has invested circa $1000 on dates. Let’s cut him some slack, he’s made a bad financial decision. (Speculative).
We've all made bad financial decisions on dating. I think it's possible to waste $1,000 on dates over a months long period of time spread across multiple women. I think it is more difficult for more a man to waste $1,000 on the same woman in the early stages.
 

BackInTheGame78

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The Olive Garden and Denny's are not acceptable date options if a man wants to ensure the early stage interaction continues. There are no larger chain restaurants good for pre-sex, early stage dates.



Agree that sneating (women dating for free meals) is a common problem. The best way around this is to not do dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. However, men are often on the hook for the costs of early stage dates no matter the activity. If a man doesn't do dinner dates in a restaurant, he's picking up the costs of drinks in a bar or some other activity date, such as going to a museum or ice skating.

Men picking up costs of dates is outdated. This is a cultural idea that made sense in the 1800s-1970, before women were entering the workforce in large numbers. We're talking about an idea now ~50 years outdated. Women have such abundance now that if one man refuses to pick up the cost of early stage dates, every woman knows that there are plenty of other men who are willing to do so. Not paying for any sort of date means that a man in most cases won't end up seeing that woman again.

In the late 2000s - early 2010s, I remember picking up the cost of early stage dates (often not even meals) for women who had a higher annual salary than I had at that time. I remember thinking that it was quite unfair to me to do that. In more recent years, I have more commonly been the higher earner on my dates but I've still been picking up date costs for women who could easily afford to pay their own ways on these dates.



The cost of a dinner in a non-chain restaurant that will have a decent ambiance for an early stage date is ridiculous. In Dallas (a large metro area), I could get a first date dinner cost below $100, but I'd be challenged to get it below $50. Even a first date with 4 drinks (2 per person) at a bar/lounge with good date ambiance is going to be pricy and getting near $50 after a tip in many cases.

These high costs should force more men to be more selective with who they take on dates. I'm not seeing that happening in the broader market but it is affecting me personally. With these costs for dates, I want to ensure I'm picking up the costs of a first date for someone I'm going to see at least a 2nd time. I don't want to waste my time on a woman who is going to flake on me after a first date or I'm going to want to get rid of after a first date. The best way for me to do this is to screen women through some real life approaching method. It is difficult to determine the probability of a good first date from text messages and phone calls. Video calling/conferencing is the best remote way to determine the probability of a good first date. Setting up a video call takes some effort. I'd rather meet women in-person than be on a dating app and setting up video calls. That's not even taking into account that dating apps have really bad ratios.



We've all made bad financial decisions on dating. I think it's possible to waste $1,000 on dates over a months long period of time spread across multiple women. I think it is more difficult for more a man to waste $1,000 on the same woman in the early stages.
I don't take women out to ANY restaurants until I fvck them and even then it's not common and I have no issues continuing the interactions.

Also where are you going out to get drinks from paying $50 for 4 drinks? Are the glasses made out of gold? This is why I could never live in a big city and pay these nonsensical prices that exist simply because their rent is 20x that of a similar place in a smaller city.

You have a lot to work on if you think you need to spend a lot of money for a woman to want to see you again or want to fvck you.

I've got over 65 OLD lays at this point and several LTRs over about an 8 year time frame that say otherwise.
 
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Pierce.Manhammer

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The cost of a dinner in a non-chain restaurant that will have a decent ambiance for an early stage date is ridiculous. In Dallas (a large metro area), I could get a first date dinner cost below $100, but I'd be challenged to get it below $50. Even a first date with 4 drinks (2 per person) at a bar/lounge with good date ambiance is going to be pricy and getting near $50 after a tip in many cases.
Well, here in Norcal, dinner entrees at a non-dive are 25-35, and a glass of wine is 10-20, add appetizers and dessert. The math is left to the reader.
 

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SW15

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I don't take women out to ANY restaurants until I fvck them and even then it's not common and I have no issues continuing the interactions.
I don't do meal dates in restaurants prior to sex either. I read about that over a decade ago and stopped doing those. I agree that it is not an issue for continuing interactions.

where are you going out to get drinks from paying $50 for 4 drinks? Are the glasses made out of gold? This is why I could never live in a big city and pay these nonsensical prices that exist simply because their rent is 20x that of a similar place in a smaller city.
I will give you examples of places in Dallas that would cost around $40-$50 for 4 drinks. Dallas isn't even as expensive as the Northeast or West Coast cities. These are places where I have been on pre-sex, early stage dates before. None of them would be considered fancy.

HG Sply Co. -- This place has a an excellent rooftop patio with a great view of Downtown Dallas. This is not considered a fancy place and it is not in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Dallas. This is maybe an upper end mid place.


Gloria's -- This is a local chain of Mexican & Salvadorian food with separate bar areas good enough for hosting a drinks-only date. Margaritas are now $12 and domestic/imported beers are $6. It's only open until 9 PM now on weekdays, so you'd want to start a date around 7 PM for sufficient time for completion or do a first drink here and walk 2 block to Uptown Pub for a 2nd drink (more reasonable drink prices there as it is more dive-ish. Gloria's is mid-range place on food with most entrees $15-$23.


The Standard Pour - This is a solid date bar and some even think it is decent pickup spot later into the night. Monday nights are all night happy hour so that's when you'd want to schedule dates here for more reasonable prices. For those not scheduling on Monday night, things are a bit more pricy. This has the most upscale reputation of the 3 places I've mentioned but the nearby neighborhood has been in decline for the last 5-8 years as I've mentioned on the Dallas thread before.


You have a lot to work on if you think you need to spend a lot of money for a woman to want to see you again or want to fvck you.
There are women who will drop a man over splitting the check on a first date. I don't think a man needs to spend a lot of money to do it (all night Happy Hour on Monday at Standard Pour or its sibling bar with the same policy will be good enough). There are even dates less expensive than $30. I have always made an effort to keep my early stage date costs reasonable. In the early to mid-2010s, my median pre-sex date was under $25. I doubt I could pull that off today but I might be able to pull off keeping it under $35.

I've got over 65 OLD lays at this point and several LTRs over about an 8 year time frame that say otherwise.
Those are solid stats.
 

manfrombelow

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went out on 5 dates with this woman, on 5th date we hooked up.
1. To be honest, any DJs here could tell you that 5th date is a bit too late for hookups to happen. Normally sex should happen at 3rd date at the latest.

anyway admittedly after hooking up I did get fairly needy...
2. Getting needy is bad. But you took ownership of being needy, which is good.

wrote her a poem thing that was probably too serious (which she hearted and said was so special... but in retrospect probably a mistake), and then tried to call her twice but she didn't pick up.. (when prior to that we had talked on phone like 3 times at like 30-50 minute each time). When I tried make plans twice, first time she said she couldn't but offered another day.. then agreed to it.. then cancelled day off. Then most recently invited hr out and she said she couldn't for work but then asked me a question and then that was it.
3. Now that you're (assumingly) more emotionally stable. Please re-read the bolded parts, and tell us how they make you feel? Cringed? Creepy? Needy? Yes, that's how SHE FELT when you (or any dude) acted needy. Hence she pulled back.

4. So to answer the question you asked making this thread:

is it normal to get ghost'd after 5 dates without warning?
She gave you plenty of warnings, my friend when she pulled back and rejected your needy moves. You were too self-denial to see through it. Now that you've been ghosted, I say leave her alone, cut all contact, learn from this, and make sure you won't make the same mistakes with other women.
 
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manfrombelow

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Well yes, she has depression and was married for 5+ years before (still young though) but I don’t care ! Being with her was so fun and “easy” to be around
1. Depression -> checked
2. Fresh out of marriage -> checked
3. Being a hopeless romantic (all the love bombings, crying, naming imaginary kids, cooking meals and yada yada) -> checked

Jesus Christ, this woman sounds damaged and had more redflags than Tiananmen Square on Mao's birthday.
 

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manfrombelow

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I wouldn't say it's normal but I would say between the 8 hour date and then you getting needy after sex she probably determined that was going to get messy quick and bailed.

Don't ever, ever, ever go on an 8 hour date with a chick you just met. A great way to say "I have nothing going on in my life and nothing to do" without opening your mouth.
Agree. 100%

A full-course date that includes sit-in meals and a fvck session at the nearest motel should only range from 2-3 hours at best (in which you cummed at least twice).

You spend 8 hours for a full-time day job, not a fvcking date.

The fact OP spent 8 fvcking hours with this chick without sex communicated to her subconscious mind that he's a needy and clingey individual with serial-killer/psychos/stalkers potential (which was confirmed further with him sending her poems and spamming her phone), hence her survival instinct kicked in, telling her to run for her life. I'd do the same too, and I'm a dude.
 
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manfrombelow

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Yeah unless you're twelve or under writing a female you're interested in a poem is a terrible idea. No idea where grown men get the idea that writing grown ass women poems is gonna work out for them.
Decades of being brainwashed by Hollywood-made romantic chick flicks. Can't blame the OP. We all went through that (and learned the fvcking hard way) to some extent.
 
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