Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Independent Women

Augustus_McCrae

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BeExcellent,

You mentioned that you have an ex you support financially.

If you don't mind my asking, I have a few questions:

What happened that caused you to divorce? Are you paying alimony?

In terms of a relationship with a man, what are you looking for? A long term relationship? Marriage?

Do you foresee a time when age will become a limiting factor with regard to your available pool of men to have a relationship with?

-Augustus-
 

BeExcellent

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My personal details do not matter. No need to explain or complain. I'm a stand up person and I do what I think is right. Without mandate.

The below is a quote from @Tenacity from another thread. I think it is wise and frankly shows off some of Tenacity's evolution just in the time I've hung around here. It also has application in this thread since people seem to want to peg women in one way (according to a certain belief system).

Red Pill is a reality, Blue Pill is a reality, and Purple Pill is a reality. As an individual man, you choose which "reality" you want to live in because all THREE are subjective. You can't say the world operates through a red pill mentality, when you can point to guys who have succeeded in a blue pill relationship, and vice versa.

This forum is one dimensional as hell.....women are all this, or women are all that. The bottom line is IT ALL DEPENDS. Some of you guys aren't attractive, thus, that's why you can't attract decent women. Then some of you guys are attractive, can attract women, and it scares the good girls into thinking you might dog them out because you come off like a player (I have that issue).

The fvcking world isn't black or white, it's mixed. All you can do as an individual is determine WHAT world do you want? What are your goals in terms of women? Do you want to spin plates forever, do you want to get married, do you want to have kids, or do you want to swear women off and never fvck with them?

Pick a goal, formulate a "reality" that centers around that goal, get around people that help support said goal.....and live your life. Fvck what some anonymous fvck-tard says on the internet about how you are "beta" if you decide to settle down. Ask that fvck-tard to post a pic of him with a woman and his fat, lazy, broke a.ss won't do it because the reality is that he hasn't had a woman in years.


And here is a quote from @Augustus_McCrae from the same thread:

And never ever forget that all women are inherently selfish. It's not a bug, it's a feature.


You are making an "ALL WOMEN" statement. Women can't be inherently selfish and also be good mothers and/or good partners. These things are mutually exclusive. Now for SOME women? Absolutely true. For ALL WOMEN Augustus has run into? I suppose that is possible. But extrapolating that to ALL WOMEN? Not so.

Here is once again why I take issue with the premise behind your questions. Asking me as an individual to explain personal details in my life does not have any point or value for the thread. Asking the question strikes me as a means to see if I will explain my personal situation for the veiled purpose of refuting it to assert your view that all women are inherently selfish. Therefore wishing to impose your belief system onto my reality and spinning my details to support your argument.

Augustus I have no beef with you at all and I hope I am wrong but I am simply pointing out that people (not just you) have belief systems into which they try to fit things. Everything doesn't fit into the belief system your statement (as quoted above) puts forward.

As to your last question(which I am happy to address since I think there is a fascination about the older age group by the younger age group) @Augustus_McCrae the answer is I don't know.

Right now I have appeal and high value in the marketplace. I am lucky to retain much of the beauty I was fortunate enough to be blessed with, I eat right and remain a size 4 dress and I have a classic 40's pin up figure. My ex who had the nightclub business and constantly was around beautiful women thinks I'm still a 9. If I'm brutally honest I think I'm a 7 all day long and Sunday too, even without any makeup, maybe an 8+ when I'm dolled up (after all I'm not 25 anymore). The age range of men who approach me is wide. 27-70 in recent months. I gravitate to men around 50 give or take a couple of years. I have mad self confidence, warmth and quiet swagger.

Will that continue? Obviously at some point my looks will not the be most prominent feature I have to offer. I don't care when that point is to be honest. It isn't just yet.

Men tell me that the hook is the beauty/figure/sexual allure but the real attractiveness lies in who I am once they get to chatting with me. I hear this over and over and over. I am much more than a man expects in both depth and complexity which is pleasantly surprising to men.

I am not the most gorgeous woman in the room anymore (and at the nightclub I wasn't always either) and I'm not the look that appeals to every man, but I am and have historically been the total package (looks, sexual allure, smarts, ambition/success, warmth, relatability) all with a personality that is direct but low drama.

Will I marry again? I have said to myself and here many times that I seriously doubt it. I have too much to lose, like a lot of guys here do. Will I LTR? I kind of already am in a way but it's not exclusive and it works fine for where I'm at in life.

Do I expect my value to decrease? No. My value will change. Looks will fade, success will increase, wisdom will increase, self actualization will increase, etc. So long as my health holds up I'll have an appeal somewhere in the market. And when and if my health goes, you know, it goes eventually. I'm no more immortal than anyone else here.

Here's the really ironic bit. I find my appeal actually to be wider now than it was in my twenties, and to higher quality men. Which is strange in a way. Why is that? Because other high caliber traditionalistic women like me are largely still married to their original spouse; others who used to have a great body and looks have gotten fat or lost their looks already or dislike sex; others are nasty negative or shallow women who are the vapid sorts men lament about here. So being who/what I am within the market of available women gives me a greater value - relative to the market. Then you add to it the independence from a financial standpoint? And the fact that I'm a guy's girl and genuinely enjoy male company? Home run.

Men in my age group get excited to discover someone with their level of life experience and still retaining the physical attributes that turn them on. They also like the self confidence and a little sass. Some guys like to get the 26 year old hotties (or 23, or 29, or 35 or whatever number) and deal with the landscape that part of the market features. Others appreciate someone like me.

I love who I am. I think it's contagious. I love who other people are too. That will never change :)
 
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Augustus_McCrae

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The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

There was no veiled purpose. No hidden agenda. And I have no interest in imposing my belief system on your reality. If you review my post, you'll see that they were simple questions, nothing more.

It's obvious that you pride yourself on your intellect and your logical abilities. I also believe that you're intelligent and logical. In light of that, your response assuming that I had a hidden agenda is somewhat surprising and a little disappointing.

I also think that it is absolutely anyone's right to not answer any question posed here. That's why I prefaced my questions with a disclaimer of "If you don't mind my asking". However, that being said, one of the primary reasons I read and post on this forum is because people are brave enough and generous enough to share their actual experiences. It makes this forum live and breathe. It helps when you can relate to someone else's experience. So, for me, it's perhaps the main reason that I'm here. Moreover, I believe the forum would not be what it is without people who are willing to share.

Also, for what it's worth, I was curious to hear about a woman who might be paying alimony and what her divorce experience was like. And I would wager that many men would like to hear that too.

-Augustus-
 

Augustus_McCrae

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I also do not agree with your statement that women can't be good mothers or good partners if they are inherently selfish.

-Augustus-
 

BeExcellent

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Ok @Augustus_McCrae Fair enough. I do apologize if my tone was offensive to you. Reading back I absolutely see your point.

Sometimes people here are genuinely inquisitive other times they bait one another seeking to ensnare.

It can be tough to tell which is which.

My divorce was a complete anomaly as divorces go. I am headed to dinner with my ex and my girls and have evening plans thereafter.

I will respond tomorrow afternoon. Let's just say I read something once about how Steve & Ellen Wynn got divorced which always impressed me. So we did something similar.

Until tomorrow & enjoy your evening.
 

Augustus_McCrae

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I will. I'm off to a costume party myself.

I look forward to your response. Enjoy dinner with your girls. I'm seeing mine tomorrow.

-Augustus-
 

Tenacity

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The below is a quote from @Tenacity from another thread. I think it is wise and frankly shows off some of Tenacity's evolution just in the time I've hung around here.
I'm glad you noticed the growth at well :).

BeExcellent the reality is that the Manosphere is just the male version of the extreme Feminist Movement.

On both sides you have a group of people who are MAINLY UNATTRACTIVE (which is why most men in the Manosphere hide themselves, they don't want people to see how ugly and fat they are) who go around spewing hatred about the opposite sex using a variety of bland, generic, one-dimensional, theories.

They do all of this under the guise of trying to "help each other prevent pain" when in reality, they are doing it because they are bitter, hurt, miserable, unattractive fvck-tards to the opposite sex for various reasons.

- Go on the Feminist side you will hear, "All men are dogs! All men are rapists! All men want to do is oppress you girl and control you! We must fight back against the evil patriarchs! Men are evil! Men are dogs! Don't trust them ladies, don't trust them!"

- Go on the Manosphere side you will hear, "All women are evil bytches! They are all out to get your money! They are all out to svck your energy dry! Don't trust them, they can't be trusted! Don't be nice to them or a gentleman to them, because they all will run over you and use you! Don't be a beta male! Be alpha like "us" and treat all women like shyt and you will succeed!"

It's the same shyt :rofl:.

The Manosphere is just the male version of the whining, bytching, moaning, complaining, Feminist Movement where a bunch of broke, lazy, fat, angry, "dudes" who mostly couldn't get a piece of pvssy on law-away, come to spew their bullshyt hatred of women in the comfort of their hidden, anonymous, usernames....typing away in some dark basement somewhere in some small town of America.

They create little anonymous groups called MGTOW claiming to "go their own way", yet the fvck-tard continues to type away about women all fvcking day long......if you've gone your own way, why the fvck do you keep discussing women then?

It's why I'm reducing my participation on the Manosphere.

It's also why there's been this uproar lately to "ban Tenacity" by these guys because I'm starting to call them out on their bullshyt.....and they don't like that!
 

BeExcellent

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OK back to the questions posed by @Augustus_McCrae

Book warning. This is LONG.

What happened that caused you to divorce? Are you paying alimony?

In terms of a relationship with a man, what are you looking for? A long term relationship? Marriage?

Do you foresee a time when age will become a limiting factor with regard to your available pool of men to have a relationship with?
1. We divorced because the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different result.

Context: When we married I was early in my consulting business in the health care sector and he was a high profile nightclub owner. I thought I was marrying someone who, like me, was an ambitious business person. The plan was that he would run the club and that I would give up my business and be a full time mom when the time came to have children. After we married some things happened in his business where a partnership went sour and a childhood friend stabbed him in the back. He lost his business. It was devastating for him and put him in a tailspin. While all this was going on I became pregnant so in both our minds we needed to stick together and figure things out. Meanwhile my business started to take off.

We decided the smart thing to do was for me to work at my business and for him to be the at home parent while he figured out his next move. What this did in effect was turn the traditional male/female roles upside down in the marriage. Over time and through 2 more children the relationship became more and more toxic because he didn't like being a house husband and I didn't like being the breadwinner, but I was not going to quit because he wasn't prepared to carry the financial burdens of the family. So I was resentful and losing more and more respect for him. Looking back we should have hired childcare and my ex should never have exited the workforce. Hindsight is 20/20. As the children got older I felt the comfort of the marriage (where I had to be the boss, mom, wife, financial strategist, and breadwinner) was actually too comfortable for him. In the last couple years of the marriage he bought a building and opened another business. But he hadn't kept himself organized and had not prepared himself to run an operation at all. I knew when he opened it was unlikely to last although I was supportive. He had gotten lazy even to the point that he wasn't keeping records at the business, was struggling to run it properly and keep it organized etc. I was coming home from business trips to piles of undone laundry, a dirty home, unkept yard, undisciplined kids, and chaos, and so spent my weekends catching up the household chores, bills, opening mail, etc. I finally told him that things had to change within a time frame or I would divorce him. Nothing changed. So I kept my word and I filed. No one was ever unfaithful in 15 years. Nothing seemed to motivate him from the extreme complacency that had crept in over the time he stayed home. He did manage to sell his business and his building 2 months after the divorce was final, so was able to recover his investment there but in two years never made a dollar. I had loaned him thousands, did all his event planning, worked for him (for free of course) and did lots of promotion to keep things going but wasn't going to indefinitely throw time and good money after bad without seeing the correct efforts to right things. We did work well together however. Finally he was the boss and I could be in a subordinate role...but it was a facade in the end.

Epilogue: Since the divorce and the sale of his business he has re-entered the workforce in a position that doesn't pay well but has a tremendous amount of responsibility within a structured environment and also has some real educational benefits for our son. He is regaining my respect since the roles and expectations inherent in the marriage relationship are gone and he is having to be self-sufficient. For him the financial safety net of the marriage is also gone so he is making efforts to improve himself (he has lost 45 lbs, gotten into the best shape of his life since the time we first met, he is dating some - and can pull very young women - his game with women was always quite good from the nightlife days) and also can basically support himself. I supplement him financially for the benefit of the kids. He is growing now instead of procrastinating and stagnating and he is doing it (FINALLY) of his own accord.

2. I pay neither alimony nor child support.

Context: My ex and I negotiated the terms of our divorce ourselves and got a retired judge to draw up the papers. Total legal fees were less than 2K. During the marriage I had started buying income real estate holdings as a mechanism to replace my income (note that I was never a mom home with my children when they were babies and so I lost those years of motherhood). The real estate was the means by which I could arrange to keep the household financially supported and finally buy back my time to be a mom before the children would be grown and gone.

At the time when we divorced the real estate holdings were approaching critical mass. Had we fought over things the court would have mandated that all real assets and debts be split 50/50, which would have destroyed any hope of the portfolio being able to support the family before the kids were grown. My ability to be a mom at home would be completely lost. My ex knew this. He also knew he couldn't afford half the debt obligations and that there was no way the banks were going to let me off the mortgages. Therefore he acquiesced ALL the real estate assets except his building and business and I accepted ALL debt responsibility. He gave up his claims for child support and spousal support as well. This allowed me maximum financial resources to build up the real estate portfolio, which I have done, doubling the holdings in the 2 years since the divorce because I was in a position to take advantage of a great deal that came along since I wasn't stripped of those assets.

Let me say here that I consider what he did in the divorce to be a tremendous gift. He didn't have to do that. Most of his friends and family think he shouldn't have, but in the end he will benefit more because what he did has enabled me to accelerate in a way that benefits everyone, the kids, myself and him, and it has preserved wealth that will take care of us both in our old age with hopefully some to pass down to the children. Additionally I pay all the life insurance premiums and we remain each other's beneficiaries at least until all our children are legal adults.

In return for this gift I will quit claim him a house of his choice from the portfolio (he has already chosen which one), and I have already renovated said house to his specifications, and I am paying down the note (28K to go) so when I turn it over he will then own it free and clear. The house was bought at a deep discount and improved such that he will have six figures in equity when I deed the house to him. If he keeps it fine, if he sells it fine, it will be his to do with as he pleases.

I will buy him a car of his choice (I am setting aside the money for that now) for cash, and I will pay off all outstanding debts and obligations from his business, taxes and etc. I have the debt side of the equation almost settled except for mortgages and some still to be determined tax liabilities, which may be steep. Once those things are covered I will gift him the maximum amount I can each year as retirement money (or mad money) or whatever he wants money. I also will never seek to remove the children from his proximity regardless of circumstance (a stipulation that is important now that I have a lucrative offer which would require relocation - and that I am negotiating with the potential employer a 50/50 remote arrangement in order to respect the arrangement I made with my ex regarding the children.) Basically I can't move the kids at all, which is OK. He doesn't make anywhere near what I do, so I support him in such a way that the lifestyle is the same, but there is not a set figure to which I am obligated. This is important because there are times that are very lean as a self-employed person - and times that are flush. We have gone through both, and I didn't want to be hamstrung should lean times come along and suddenly I can't pay whatever the obligatory amount happens to be.

We ignore the divorce decree and do whatever we think best regarding the kids (they live full time at my house for example and he stays here when I am away instead of week here/week there - we both think that is silly and destabilizing but obviously that would need to change if either of us got seriously involved with someone else) so if there is ever a dispute then the decree will control. We think of it like a partnership agreement. Anything goes unless and until someone has an issue. At that point we have a framework to follow. So far we work things out as we see fit.

TLDR: We made an agreement between ourselves that works well for us and has maximum benefit for our children and all parties involved. Then we had an attorney who was a judge here for 25 years draw up the agreement (and make sure we addressed certain things the state would want to see addressed.) Our agreement doesn't make sense to many people but it works well for us. It is an agreement that requires a tremendous amount of trust and integrity (trust from him and integrity from me), and I am meeting the obligations I promised him I would meet. He trusts that I will continue to do so.
 

BeExcellent

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Final 2 questions:

3. I doubt I would remarry. I might LTR. It would have to be with a man who is fully autonomous and has his own life together and his bases covered. And it would have to be someone to whom I can defer the leadership role in the relationship. That is a very small dating pool (although I still find an abundance within the subset that meets the "Sh1t Together" criteria.) So all that depends who I meet and when etc. I'm in no a hurry and can afford to choose for the right reasons. I'm not afraid to be alone either so it will be interesting to see how life unfolds.

4. The age thing is what it is. I'm lucky to look about 10-12 years younger than I am and to be blessed with great genetics. I expect that my appeal will shift as I get older but I think my value will change more than diminish. My grandmother was widowed in her early forties and was single for 18 years. She remarried a younger man when she was in her 60s. They were married 28 years until his death at the age of 83. She was 93 when he died. She only ever went about 30% gray and was still retained some of her beauty even at an advanced age. She looked like a brunette Jean Harlow. So my grandmother was an outlier. I think I am as well, but only time will tell.

My ex would like me back. He has been out with women in their 20s, 30s and 40s. He has the same complaints about the women he has been out with that the men here discuss. He can't find a gal who has what I have to offer and it's not even close.

So who knows how the future goes. My crystal ball is busted so I have no idea.
 

BeExcellent

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Surely you are joking? Lets say I respectfully hope you are joking ;)

As to the insanity thing? We were in a situation that wasn't changing. Continuing in that situation wasn't working. So I ended the marriage, which fundamentally changed matters for all the reasons shared above. It removed the toxicity and the stagnation. It also removed the backward dynamic that had become set in the relationship (me in the leadership role/him in the subordinate role) and tossed it out the window for everyone's benefit.

It sucked and it was the hardest decision I've ever followed through on. But it was the right thing to do.

Does that help?
 

BeExcellent

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Nah. All typed out.

And now we return you to the original content of the thread :rolleyes:
 

Augustus_McCrae

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BeExcellent,

Thanks for responding to my questions. I plan to post a longer reply later today.

-Augustus-
 

teebear

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My girlfriend is what you would call an independent woman. She's a lawyer, makes six figures, owns her own house and car and has no debt other than a couple of years left on her mortgage.

Dating her has kept me on my toes. She's very good looking, never married and no kids. Although we're in love, "it's just my turn" is never far from the back of my mind.

To further complicate matters, she grew up as the daughter of an officer in the military. She does NOT enjoy following orders or being led.

That said, I think that dating her is proof that I've internalized some of the principles I've learned from the community, and am applying them successfully. It's fantastic that she has tons of money and treats to restaurants and concerts and the like but that hasn't made me complacent. If anything, I'm better with money than I've ever been. I've had to be, in order to keep up with her. Although she makes more money than I do, I've demonstrated POTENTIAL which is almost as effective as having a bigger salary.

Dating an independent woman can be fantastic, but you need to have the fundamentals down. Look your best, kill any neediness that might be lingering in your personality, know how to pass the occasional comfort test, and enjoy the ride. There's more to it than that I'm sure, but get those things handled and you're well on your way.
 

Augustus_McCrae

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BeExcellent,

It is refreshing to hear about a couple who handled their divorce themselves and incurred minimal legal fees.

I was married for approximately 30 years.

We agreed that the best thing for our girls would be if one of us stayed home and raised them until school age. Like you, I was the working spouse. Theoretically, It should have worked. It was the best thing for the girls and for the family. However, as in your situation, my ex got lazy. She became accustomed to living a certain lifestyle. Our kids attended private school from Kindergarten through High School. Many of the parents were doctors and lawyers. There was a group of wives who did fundraisers, social events, lunches, etc. My ex began associating with these women and over time, was influenced by them and their lifestyle.

Career wise, I started out blue collar, then switched to IT in my late twenties. Through hard work, a few job hops and managing my career well, I started making a good salary. But it's nowhere near the amount of money a doctor or lawyer makes. However, my ex imagined herself as part of this group. She wanted to feel like she belonged to the Local Gentry. She also tried to spend like they did too. I found out later from my daughters that they would go shopping with my Ex and she would admonish them to not tell me how much she had spent.

When it came time for my ex to return to the workforce (our youngest daughter entered kindergarten), she hesitated and faltered. She had grown accustomed to this image of herself being part of the "wives club". She volunteered and did things at the school, but none of those activities put money in our bank account. Then, when she hit her later thirties, she began to have emotional/anxiety/depression issues. Like you, I eventually found myself in the position of breadwinner, bill payer, cook, dishwasher and laundry man.

As you've said, hindsight is 20/20. Knowing what I know now, I would have done things very differently.

When it came time to divorce, I tried to be reasonable. I was prepared to offer her 10 years of alimony and I would assume all of the debt. I knew that a contentious divorce would cost us legal fees that we didn't have the money for and would also be the worst thing for our girls. But she wouldn't listen to reason. I was locked in a divorce battle with an angry, bitter, emotional woman who thought I "owed her". She believed that I would have to pay her lifetime alimony (which, unfortunately, was a distinct possibility). When we went to mediation, I found out that she was making false allegations of misappropriation of marital funds. In addition, she also tried to turn my children and all of our friends against me by telling lies about my behavior and moral character. At that point, I knew I was in for the fight of my life. I went to see my lawyer the day after mediation and told him "scorch the earth, let's use whatever we have to win".

The divorce wound up taking about 3 1/2 years and was finally settled in court (yes, we actually went to court. A day and a half with lawyers and an employment specialist. All the while, the $meter was running). The state I'm in is a no fault state. Technically, your moral character and whether or not you have cheated mean nothing with regard to alimony. However, my lawyer explained that you can paint a picture of someone's character via testimony. And in many cases, the judge is influenced by this. It cost me dearly, but he did a masterful job. Everything came out during the the trial. At the end, it was very obvious who was telling the truth. The judge knew which spouse and parent had been responsible, fair, and reasonable.

The final judgment was 5 years durational alimony. I wound up with approximately 60K in lawyer's fees. I also assumed all of the marital debt because I knew she would never help pay it down. I also believed I might have to pay less alimony by taking on all the debt. With the combination of approximately 3 years temporary alimony plus 5 years of durational, I will have paid her a total of approximately 100K. I'll make my last alimony payment in the middle of 2018 and I'll have the lawyer paid off in 2020 (I write him a check every month). Custody and child support were not an issue (thank god) because my youngest was eighteen and had just entered college when the shiz hit the fan.

With regard to the original subject of independent women, they are the only ones I'm interested in at this point.

As to dating and relationships when you're older (I'm 58), it's a double edged sword. In one way, it's much simpler: You already have kids so that's not an issue, you also know much more about who you are. However, your "list" of what you want in a person/relationship can be a little difficult to find. That, and each of you bring some baggage to the table. Some have a small overnight bag, others are toting a Steamer trunk...

I have no trouble attracting women. I've aged well and actually look better than when I was younger. And thankfully, albeit a little late (or perhaps very late), I'm much smarter and wiser with regard to women and relationships.

I agree with you BeExcellent. The dating pool you are looking at, given your criteria, is very small. But as you've said, you feel no sense of urgency and you're prepared to be alone if that's the way things work out. I also have the distinct feeling that you are happy with your current situation. You like being the captain of your ship.

With regard to men, you said: " And it would have to be someone to whom I can defer the leadership role in the relationship." If you'll indulge me, I have another question (again, no hidden agenda). Do you want to eventually defer the leadership role to a man? And after being independent for so long, do you have any concerns that you might be reluctant to let a man assume that role in your life? OK, so that was 2 questions... :D

-Augustus-
 
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Will21st

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The assumptions your post makes are exactly why @Howiestern started this thread.

Some men here haven't ever run into a woman like the ones the thread is talking about, or if they do they don't know how to handle her because she behaves differently than 95% + of women out there. I personally could care less about a man's resources in a financial sense because I am my own provider.

Men with serious financial resources are abundant in my world. And most of these men are type A personalities and alpha men in spades. But I have resources of my own creation that are substantial. These alpha guys respect me in my own right. Therefore I'm interested in a man I can exchange ideas with, enjoy and learn from. Someone capable of leading me should a relationship develop. Because of where I am in life that is going to be a man who is at least as accomplished as me if not more so. And someone I find sexy too. Period.

You don't have to accept what I have to say. Ignore me. I appreciate a man for who he is and how he thinks and what he has accomplished and I have great respect and admiration for that. I recognize and value a man's character. I know what it takes to become a success and I value those qualities in others. That is a very different perspective than an attitude of what he can do or provide for me. Worlds different.

Men value women who genuinely appreciate and respect a man in this way. It's unusual for a man to find.

Just this past week I was offered out of the blue a position in my field in a major market with a 1% level salary plus bonus opportunities. I didn't interview at all, I was simply offered a high level position based on the talent I've demonstrated and the trust I've built over the past couple months working with this particular business. I've discussed it with my ex (who I support financially) and my kids and will be declining this coming week.

Why? I'd rather not give up the independence I've built into my lifestyle and I'm unwilling to relocate my kids. It's just not worth the hassle factor. The man making the offer will be disappointed, but I will handle it with diplomacy. See the abundance mentality at work there?

Independent women have an abundance mentality and a positive outlook. Great things to associate with if you ask me, and not common to find.
I know one woman like you describe, and she blew me away like no woman has before. Quite frankly she made me re-evaluate what I look for in a companion, and the traits that you describe to a tee make her irresistible... unfortunately I blew it with her and made a lot of mistakes from the get go but then I am 41 and only starting out in the manosphere... you live and learn. ;-)

However just the fact that there are women like that out there makes me hopeful and motivated. My sights are set and my journey has just begun.
 

BeExcellent

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I am happy to respond @Augustus_McCrae to those questions.

1. Yes I am certain I would be happy in the subordinate role with the right man. I envision a his, mine & ours situation where he handles his affairs & chidren specifics from before; I handle my affairs and children details from before and then we move forward together with him in charge. I have actually already met someone I would consider an LTR with. The only thing is he is far away and each of us realize the logistics make things unlikely to progress but we have been seeing each other for 18 months and I find it effortless to be with him. He is decisive, sexy, self assured and a gentleman. He made it clear in a classy way on first meeting that he had a sexual interest in me but without becoming a brute or an octopus. He showed unmistakable interest and also restraint (this is an area many men do not understand well here). He has his business, kids, ex and life & I have mine. If anything I expect he may well eventually settle in with a woman more local than I...which is a bummer but to be expected. But meanwhile it confirms for me that the type man I would select does indeed exist.
 

BeExcellent

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2. Your second question is more interesting to the audience I would think. Basically you are wondering if I would relinquish control or leadership to a man. The answer is heavens yes!!! And the answer is yes precisely because I do know what that leadership role is like (having been in it myself for so long) and I therefore have a deep appreciation and understanding of what the burden of that responsibility feels like to carry (think of Atlas) day in and day out. It takes courage and guts to face the world every day, to get knocked around, to get discouraged and bloodied by life. And when you get home there needs to be a safe haven in which to recharge and relax to go do it all again the next day. For me it would be a joy to provide that safe haven to the right man and support him in pursuit of his ambitions or life goals although it would have to be a man in whose ability and competency I trust in enough to know he does not need my help but rather he takes it under advisement and reaches decisions which he then owns fully. To be by the side of such a man would allow me the pleasure of helping him & assisting him, of caring for him and supporting him. These are things I see very happily married women I know doing for their spouses and it is amazing when you can see couples who surmount life's fires together, and they become forged, like steel.

My issue is there cannot be a leadership vacuum. I will move to fill a leadership vacuum without hesitation.

And your story about your divorce, Augustus is far to common these days. Thank you for sharing it here. I was very, very lucky my ex did not create similar troubles for me. Lord knows he could have.

Cheers!
BE
 

Augustus_McCrae

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BeExcellent,

Would you mind indulging a few more questions?

Can you shed some light on this passage?

"...Without becoming a brute or an octopus. He showed unmistakable interest and also restraint (this is an area many men do not understand well here)".

Brute?

Octopus?

And how does the many men not understanding showing interest and also restraint manifest itself?

-Augustus-
 

BeExcellent

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But Did you have sex with him?
Yes and I still do and enjoy him thoroughly.

But I didn't right away. I go into this in some detail in the "How to spot a Unicorn" thread toward the back of the thread. Keep in mind that I see him much less than I would were we local to one another.

He's the only one since my ex.
 
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